Muay Thai And Training With Other Disciplines

[leftcross]

i've always trained in western boxing and competed to a decent level as an amateur in the uk.

i kept up the training and nearly went pro a couple of times but various things got in the way.

i must admit that my mind in the uk was closed to other kinds of 'combat sports', i suppose it was partly due to the thinking that boxing was the best thing out there.

but after living in thailand i've started doing a bit of muay thai and i love it. although a lot of my moves are still from boxing, and its hard to get the footwork programming undone, i really think this has added a lot to my abilities. it's opened another world up.

i have also discovered MMA (on tv) and love watching it. it seems to have grown into its own style rather than muay thai v karate v jiu jitsu etc.

how far do people think muay thai can be implemented into MMA? most of the fighters love the muay thai clinch to get the knees in while standing and many of the kicks all seem to be from muay thai too.

do you think MMA will spell the end of people just training in one discipline? i think it would be impossible for a fighter who only knew muay thai to succeed in MMA. a skilled takedown practioner would make short work of them.

obviously people will love to watch muay thai fights, as they do boxing etc but MMA really seems to be taking off now.

i wish i had had the opportunity to train in an all-round style from the start. it makes you realise how narrow each discipline is......

is MMA the future? or am i overestimating it....???

Edited January 7, 2007 by leftcross

[Vespa]

i've always trained in western boxing and competed to a decent level as an amateur in the uk.

i kept up the training and nearly went pro a couple of times but various things got in the way.

i must admit that my mind in the uk was closed to other kinds of 'combat sports', i suppose it was partly due to the thinking that boxing was the best thing out there.

but after living in thailand i've started doing a bit of muay thai and i love it. although a lot of my moves are still from boxing, and its hard to get the footwork programming undone, i really think this has added a lot to my abilities. it's opened another world up.

i have also discovered MMA (on tv) and love watching it. it seems to have grown into its own style rather than muay thai v karate v jiu jitsu etc.

how far do people think muay thai can be implemented into MMA? most of the fighters love the muay thai clinch to get the knees in while standing and many of the kicks all seem to be from muay thai too.

do you think MMA will spell the end of people just training in one discipline? i think it would be impossible for a fighter who only knew muay thai to succeed in MMA. a skilled takedown practioner would make short work of them.

obviously people will love to watch muay thai fights, as they do boxing etc but MMA really seems to be taking off now.

i wish i had had the opportunity to train in an all-round style from the start. it makes you realise how narrow each discipline is......

is MMA the future? or am i overestimating it....???

Your take is correct.

I boxed as kid and studied a bit of Muay Thai .

I think the boxing stance with the ability to throw knees and elbows is very effective.

MMA is the way of the future , it is a hybrid martial art and it gets down to the nitty gritty of combat.

[Tingnongnoi]

it comes down to personal preferences I think, MMA is going through a big boom time now, whether that will last remains to be seen. As for my own preferences, purely from a spectator point of view, I can't get into MMA too much and would rather watch Muaythai or straight boxing. I dont think it will spell the end of people training in one style yet as still think there is a big market out there for people that prefer the straight standup styles.

[soi lurker]

Every person has an original background in a specific style. You can only compliment urself by learning alternative techniquies. I agree its hard to get out of a mindset that has been instilled in you since day one of training, but we all can try. MMA will always be more successful in open minded countries. I think the west is a little less open to this idea. It appears too brutal to the mainstream.

[leftcross]

but i think people may just train specifically in MMA right from the start, rather than start out in boxing/muay thai/wrestling and the learn bits from the others to compliment their original discipline.

im not sure about MMA being too brutal, they have tidied it right up from the early days. liddell v ortiz 2 had over 1 million PPV buys, that is a massive number.

maybe it is a fad that will die out, but it looks unstoppable at the moment.

[Gerry290]

As someone training a good few years in kickboxing, and now Muay Thai in Thailand.

I think a striking fight is way more exciting than MMA.

2 guys in the bjj guard for 5 mins on the floor is, not exciting for me personally.

do I do admire the athletes, and intend to learn some grappling myself down there in Pattaya.

[soi lurker]

I gauge my opinion of the brutality of the sport from a western documentary i watched. They were saying it was too brutal for the mainstream, and apparently due to the report, the majority of western sports investors saw it this way. Therefore the promoters and fighters followed the money trail. I think most contact/fighting sports fans may disagree with this, but again, we are not the mainstreem.

[steveromagnino]

I don't think MMA is too brutal, but it just doens't have the elegance IMHO of boxing and muay Thai; in fact some friends of mine think the sweet science has elegance than muay thai doens't have; maybe it comes down to knowledge of the sport; since i know nothing about grappling, it looks like there is some skill involved, but I am looking and have no idea what skill?!

This hype about MMA; it still is a long way off boxing though right?

I've seen a few fights on youtube and whatever; not my thing to watch or to do. I don't think it is the way of the view at the expense of boxing or Muay Thai, maybe it is a new way for entertainment; like pro wrestling only for real; after all a few years ago pro wrestling was actually pretty brutal.

I bet that boxing and muay thai 'lite versions' can end up in gyms and fitness clubs with high levels of participation; however I cannot ever see the mainstream wanting to actually train MMA; too brutal on TV there is no such word, but too brutal for training, yes absolutely. It just looks scary.

[Gerry290]

Here is a good point re MMA.

MMA guys can Tap Out if they get in trouble.

Any striking sport...boxing, kickboxing, thai...when I was kickboxing there was no Tapping Myself out of a round. You stayed in and took the shots and did your best...if the opponent was stronger fighter.

I think striking is more brutal...you take alot more shots to the head more frequently. standing 8 count...and back in for more. especially pro boxing.

[leftcross]

yes good point. but people only tap out when they are in a lock/choke that could either kill them or do serious damage (eg break arms/ankles etc).

it's strange because even though MMA does look more brutal i doubt if the injury level is as high than for boxing and muay thai.

in boxing you are being punched in the head almost continously, in MMA a good striker with 4oz gloves can usually manage a one punch KO fairly quickly. the fights are explosive.

most injuries in boxing occur in the later rounds due to fatigue, dehydration etc. an early KO is embarrassing but usually not life-threatening.

soi lurker - did you see the documentary called 'the smashing machine' about mark kerr? that was brutal, almost beyond belief. i've been around combat sports for years but i flet physically sick seeing that. however, MMA has been tidied up since the 'anything goes' days. look at matt hughes v georges st pierre or chuck liddell v tito ortiz for matches that are extremely skillful. it isnt just people streetfighting any more (plus they stand the people up quickly now if there isnt much going on on the ground)

Edited January 9, 2007 by leftcross

[Mai Krap]

Boxing and Muay Thai both attack the head as a primary way to end a fight. Attacking the head is what leads to death and severe brain injury in many cases. Both of these sports have a proven track record of short carreers and longterm problems associated with head injury.

MMA has in the last few years proven that with its options in closing or ending fights that statisticaly it is a much safer sport. Just look at the age of the guys who participate, how many boxing contenders are 40 years old and how many Muay Thai Champions are over 21 years old, you can only get hit in the head so many times in any career.

Boxing is actualy quite boring with the poking and proding for 10 to 15 rounds, Muay Thai is more about gambling than anything else the way its done here in Thailand and what is done outside is not relly Muay Thai and as was stated on another thread by others, "There aint no money in it" ,,, What would horce racing be without gambleing? Thats what Muay Thai and Boxing are now. MMA provides a active sport where people can clearly see who wins in many cases by th flow of blood from the loser, As far as I know at this time it is not to big on the gambling scene with most just wanting to view the fight.

I was at a big festable recently and most there never even bothered to stop and watch the boxing matches, I can gaurentee this that even in Thailand if people knew there was a MMA fight going on everyone at the festable would stop and watch it.

[Tingnongnoi]

Boxing and Muay Thai both attack the head as a primary way to end a fight. Attacking the head is what leads to death and severe brain injury in many cases. Both of these sports have a proven track record of short carreers and longterm problems associated with head injury.

It is not the primary way to fight in Muaythai to attack the head as it is in intenational boxing, most fighters would tend to kick or knee to the body

MMA has in the last few years proven that with its options in closing or ending fights that statisticaly it is a much safer sport. Just look at the age of the guys who participate, how many boxing contenders are 40 years old and how many Muay Thai Champions are over 21 years old, you can only get hit in the head so many times in any career.

what actual statistics or proof do you have to show that?

The majority of Muaythai fighters at the top level are over 21, 23-24 at least and will start to go down at around 25-26, the reason not so much due to accumaltion or damage of headshots, more down to burnout due to having fought since a very young age, with most starting to fight around the age of 10 and having had over 200 bouts by the time they are in mid twenties

Boxing is actualy quite boring with the poking and proding for 10 to 15 rounds, Muay Thai is more about gambling than anything else the way its done here in Thailand and what is done outside is not relly Muay Thai and as was stated on another thread by others, "There aint no money in it" ,,, What would horce racing be without gambleing? Thats what Muay Thai and Boxing are now. MMA provides a active sport where people can clearly see who wins in many cases by th flow of blood from the loser, As far as I know at this time it is not to big on the gambling scene with most just wanting to view the fight.

no thats what they are in your opinion, there are plenty of other people that would much rather watch stand up disciplines, for their own enjoyment, not just to gamble

I was at a big festable recently and most there never even bothered to stop and watch the boxing matches, I can gaurentee this that even in Thailand if people knew there was a MMA fight going on everyone at the festable would stop and watch it.

how exactly can you guarantee that?

Edited January 9, 2007 by Tingnongnoi

[soi lurker]

it's strange because even though MMA does look more brutal i doubt if the injury level is as high than for boxing and muay thai.

soi lurker - did you see the documentary called 'the smashing machine' about mark kerr? that was brutal, almost beyond belief. i've been around combat sports for years but i flet physically sick seeing that. however, MMA has been tidied up since the 'anything goes' days. look at matt hughes v georges st pierre or chuck liddell v tito ortiz for matches that are extremely skillful. it isnt just people streetfighting any more (plus they stand the people up quickly now if there isnt much going on on the ground)

I would say injuries are common to all disciplines, there may, however be more in MMA.

I have seen "smashing machine" the documentary, i really enjoyed it. In that lies one of my points. The competitors are following the money to asian countries because western investment wont promote there because of the brutality issue. I agree there is a huge amount of skill involved, as with any discipline really, and i really enjoy watching the matches as a spectator.

Just for the record, my personal opinion is I think the sport is no more brutal than another contact sport. Im positive that western influence, however, does not. In answer to your original question, i wish it would become as big as mainstream boxing but this wont happen in the west thats for sure. I couldn't think of anything more satisfying than coming home and watching friday night fight nights of MMA.

Edited January 9, 2007 by soi lurker

[steveromagnino]

I was at a big festable recently and most there never even bothered to stop and watch the boxing matches, I can gaurentee this that even in Thailand if people knew there was a MMA fight going on everyone at the festable would stop and watch it.

To each their own; I couldn't be bothered watching MMA on TV, and I can't be bothered watching it live, no matter the skill level. i have some Thai friends that love it, and some who think it sucks.

The ones who aren't fans usually describe the heavyweights as 'kwai' and claim it is slow and boring compared to watching middleweights or lighter. Same for boxing, same for Muay Thai and so on.

To each their own mate; as I Thai I think I can comment somewhat knowledgeably; boxing, MT and MMA would be not markedly different in interest levels at a low level, and the TV ratings suggest MT and boxing are, at least for Thailand, more popular at an international level. And pro wrestling is maybe more popular again?! Got to love dem big fake boobies.

[Mai Krap]

it's strange because even though MMA does look more brutal i doubt if the injury level is as high than for boxing and muay thai.

soi lurker - did you see the documentary called 'the smashing machine' about mark kerr? that was brutal, almost beyond belief. i've been around combat sports for years but i flet physically sick seeing that. however, MMA has been tidied up since the 'anything goes' days. look at matt hughes v georges st pierre or chuck liddell v tito ortiz for matches that are extremely skillful. it isnt just people streetfighting any more (plus they stand the people up quickly now if there isnt much going on on the ground)

I would say injuries are common to all disciplines, there may, however be more in MMA.

I have seen "smashing machine" the documentary, i really enjoyed it. In that lies one of my points. The competitors are following the money to asian countries because western investment wont promote there because of the brutality issue. I agree there is a huge amount of skill involved, as with any discipline really, and i really enjoy watching the matches as a spectator.

Just for the record, my personal opinion is I think the sport is no more brutal than another contact sport. Im positive that western influence, however, does not. In answer to your original question, i wish it would become as big as mainstream boxing but this wont happen in the west thats for sure. I couldn't think of anything more satisfying than coming home and watching friday night fight nights of MMA.

The big money was in Japan till 2006, Now its hit the American market and hard. All the kids that were watching wrestling in the late 90s are now adults paying for pay for view MMA events. If you watched the IFL stock opening it was shocking the way it went off, there is nothing like it in sports outside of the Green Bay Packers. http://www.ifl.tv/,,,,,,,,,,IFL stock investment article

Here is a link to the 60 minutes interviews concerning MMA.,,,,,http://60minutes.yahoo.com/segment/25/fight_club

Edited January 10, 2007 by Mai Krap

[leftcross]

it's strange because even though MMA does look more brutal i doubt if the injury level is as high than for boxing and muay thai.

soi lurker - did you see the documentary called 'the smashing machine' about mark kerr? that was brutal, almost beyond belief. i've been around combat sports for years but i flet physically sick seeing that. however, MMA has been tidied up since the 'anything goes' days. look at matt hughes v georges st pierre or chuck liddell v tito ortiz for matches that are extremely skillful. it isnt just people streetfighting any more (plus they stand the people up quickly now if there isnt much going on on the ground)

I would say injuries are common to all disciplines, there may, however be more in MMA.

I have seen "smashing machine" the documentary, i really enjoyed it. In that lies one of my points. The competitors are following the money to asian countries because western investment wont promote there because of the brutality issue. I agree there is a huge amount of skill involved, as with any discipline really, and i really enjoy watching the matches as a spectator.

Just for the record, my personal opinion is I think the sport is no more brutal than another contact sport. Im positive that western influence, however, does not. In answer to your original question, i wish it would become as big as mainstream boxing but this wont happen in the west thats for sure. I couldn't think of anything more satisfying than coming home and watching friday night fight nights of MMA.

you are thinking of MMA from a couple of years ago. It exploded in the USA last year, culminating in the biggest show ever for Liddell v Ortiz 2. The PPV figures were higher than any boxing event in 2006 and the crowd was 14,000 (only Pacquiao v Morales was higher)

[Siam_superfly]

is MMA the future? or am i overestimating it....???

For any sport to succeed mainstream, u need exposure. U need idols that kids look up to and try to emulate. Boxing ahs many, MMA does not yet.

If a Mike Tyson type went in for an MMA fight, with all the sponsors jumping on the bandwagon, MMA would recieve a massive spike, but when all over would probably not have the legs to carry it on.

Boxing has time, at the gym I grew up in training, there are pictures of guys in that gym going back 90 - 100 years, and that experience is passed on the u through the older fighters in the gym. It gives u more than just the fight.

Boxing is a sport, MMA is a spectale, to the basketball / tennis fan, its something u look at for two mintues coz of the potential of death, then flick over to an old episode of friends.

Being an olympic sport would help MMA.

Boxing is the king of fight sports, it has history, u cant knock Boxing out, and MMA types will always be the undercard, and for I one am ok with that.

Edited January 18, 2007 by Siam_superfly

[Siam_superfly]

Leftcross... must add that I enjoy watching MMA, but where would u rather be...ring side at a WBC/WBA Heavyweight Title fight or the equivalent MMA fight....

[leftcross]

i'd rather be at a good quality fight, whether it is boxing/muay thai or mma.

you already know who will win 70% of boxing matches before the first bell, MMA seems more unpredicatable because of the amount of ways someone can be beaten.

however, watching a superb boxer in action is like watching poetry in motion. MMA doesn't have that.

how about a mixed bill?

i think stars are emerging in MMA. look at chuck liddell, he is knocking everyone out spectacularly and thats what gets the fans interested.

[Siam_superfly]

i'd rather be at a good quality fight, whether it is boxing/muay thai or mma.

you already know who will win 70% of boxing matches before the first bell, MMA seems more unpredicatable because of the amount of ways someone can be beaten.

however, watching a superb boxer in action is like watching poetry in motion. MMA doesn't have that.

how about a mixed bill?

i think stars are emerging in MMA. look at chuck liddell, he is knocking everyone out spectacularly and thats what gets the fans interested.

Like I said...Boxing has time.....how many great boxers of the past can u think of just of the top of ur head...lots....and how many MMA fighters....

The fighter u mention maybe one, but Boxing has hundereds past and present. Mixed bill...why ?.....why should Boxing help MMA ?...if MMA is so good it should be able to stand on its own.....

Ur question was about sport popularity, and MMA is way down the list.....

Edited January 21, 2007 by Siam_superfly

[leftcross]

write MMA off at your peril. HBO in the states are getting involved this year, which shows how far it has come.

the fights are huge over there and more popular than boxing.

mate, boxing wouldnt be 'helping MMA' boxing would be helping itself because there will be a whole new generation of fans who just watch MMA without getting into boxing first (like us)

[Siam_superfly]

write MMA off at your peril. HBO in the states are getting involved this year, which shows how far it has come.

the fights are huge over there and more popular than boxing.

mate, boxing wouldnt be 'helping MMA' boxing would be helping itself because there will be a whole new generation of fans who just watch MMA without getting into boxing first (like us)

HBO would pump it up....they arent going to throw money at something and not say its great....see if they still have a contract on it in 5 years....

More popular than Boxing.....big call.....so whats been the biggest purse in MMA.....Im not saying its not watched, but bigger than Boxing.....hmmmmmmmm

Each to their own, but Im always Boxing first.....

Remember just now, some divisons lack the awesome types that attract big pay days, like the Tysons etc...but we both know that changes...and its on the undercard of the big title fights that most of the up and coming young figthers get to show there stuff to a big crowd with a live feed.....so why would u give those precious minutes to MMA......