Busted At The Border

[Mai Krap]

Since the subject is being brought up I will confirm that I was denied a 30day entry visa for having been in Thailand more than 90 days. I was told on no uncertain terms that I could not get another thirty day tourist visa and was sent back across no mans land into Laos.

In my case its not of much concern and I simply waited a few days till the consulate opened and applied for and recieved a 60 day visa for 1,000 baht. It was basicly a madhouse at both the Thai consulate and the Thai Immigration Checkpoint. What was so weird about it all was the Laos were running their side of the checkpoint at capacity with no waits, The Thai side was a FUBAR.

Where this story gets weird is Vientiane, I noticed a unusual amount of African guys and a few women there and asked some friends what was going on. I was told they started showing up in November and never left. They were all very nice and polite and posed no problems that I saw but it was weird to see and in all my years of going there I have only known one man of color there and he was an executive at a Inc. There were also a few groups of Sri Lankens there who all claimed they were on holiday but I was told by another source they were someones staff from Thailand and they were basicly hold up in the cheepest rooms in town as refugees with no more visas. While these people stood out it left me wondering how many others were there because they were denied entry into Thailand?

One of the reasons there is not much fuss on Thai Visa is many of the border runners have pissed off to Cambodia which offers one year visas for around 300 bucks depending on how you get it. Thats a multiple entry visa too, so even if you are denied back into Thailand who cares. Vietnam pays much better for English teachers also its very easy to get lost between Cambodia, Laos, and Vietnam. For that matter one can easily take a slow train to London starting at Saigon or Hanoi and go eat some fish and chips then make it back for another 90 days or not.

Me and most of the people I know have basicly stopped spending money and started staying home. While this thirty day visa loophole is over who knows what is going to happen next, To me its a form of instability and it will dry up much of the funds that have so freely flowed into small business skemes, some tend to forget some of the better bars and restraunts around were founded by guys who ran to the border every thirty days till they got their shit together. More importantly the thirty day border run was a security blanket and that blanket is forever gone, The endless thirty day visa is dead!

[rainman]

why didn't they give you a 7 days "pack your stuff" visa?

[londonthai]

lucky you got this tourist visa

[Mai Krap]

why didn't they give you a 7 days "pack your stuff" visa?

I asked if they could give me some kind of emergancy visa and was told no, I found that even more bizarre. In reality I dont care and I like hanging around in Laos anyway and I just called my wife and told her to have her mother come stay over a few days. I have friends and family on both sides of the Cambodian and Lao borders so its more of a hassle than anything else and I have been home already back in Thailand a few days.

The real bitch will be for the guys who dont have family or people they can trust with small amounts of money or to just not rip off everything they own if they get stranded a few days. If I lived in Bangkok and was refused entry I would just go take a plane to Bangkok and take my chances with those guys, they hardly ever refuse a thirty day visa on arrival there.

[Mai Krap]

As a joke I have gone back and dug up this from April of 2004 which was the first time I was sent packing, ripped off, lied to, figured out nobody knew what the helll was going on, or what ever you want to make out of all this.

From 2004 "The system seems to work I just dont know how..."

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post 2004-04-29 15:15:46

Post #1

Mai Krap

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Since this effects alot of folks Im starting a another thread to deal with reality and not speculation on tourist visas as Im jammed up with this right now,,,Not trying to be a smart ass just trying keep it real and not inflamitory..........

Recently at the consulate in Vientiane I was called aside and told this is your last tourist visa...... I had been living on tourist visas for two years as Im to young for a retirement visa,,, I am retired and have documentation to prove this... I was caught off gaurd and briefly went into shock,,,, Then I asked what I had done and was told basicaly the computer flagged me... I asked what I could do and was told I needed 200,000 baht in a thai bank to which I replied I was told I couldnt open a bank account on a tourist visa... I then said I planned to be married in a few months and was told if married I needed 375,000 baht for a tourist visa... I begain to ask many more questions and was realy making the lady mad when I finaly said,,, Im sorry but Im just trying to understand what I can do here as this effects many people,,, Girlfriend, Housemade, Som Tam Lady, Landlord, Niegbors, and my Dog,,, Who all depend on me for all or part of their income... No housemade,,, No paycheck,,, No shoes and rice for her kids to go to school and no more free English lessons.... She calmed down and I got a little more cool headed... Finaly I was told I could go to the U.S. Embassy and for around 50 dollars I could get a letter stating I had income and bring it in all would be Ok... I will know the end of this story by the first of june..........

2004-06-16 13:14:50

Post #43

Mai Krap

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Update ,,, I went to all the trouble of getting letters at the embasy stating I had funds and when I went to the Thai consulate this time nobody asked me anything and I tried to show them all my paperwork I was told to bring and they acted like I was crazy.... I was given a new tourest visa no questions asked..... The bottem line is I spent more money and got nothing extra and didnt need the letter this time,,, next time could be diffrent.....The system seems to work I just dont know how...

[rainman]

it all works, even if we don't know how. in the end, we'll all find a way.

[keenok]

was in vientiane for a week late november /early december .i also noticed a lot of african faces,and again never seen that before in many ,many times in laos. they seemed to be holed up there in the cheaper guesthouses. seemed strange to me that this would start then, and not after the 90 day rule kicked in

[jinjok]

africans have been there for years. some years ago they had reasonable visa situation w/ lao as the countries were all tin-pot facist cum communist dictatorships. muslims have been operating in talat sao mainly selling fabric for years as well. its a small community, well behaved and onfen on the lamb from mother country or hiding out from war... that at least was the 90s

there is also a large african/muslim population refugee cum scamster cum monied but no-place-will-give-visa'd lot in bkk as well. they are families who have money, nigerians running dope, etc...

they just stand out because they are black :-)

[jeebusjones]

This is the first direct story of a person from a first world country being denied. It's a very bad sign for visa runners (myself included), but another promising indication that there are no restrictions on tourist visas.

Were you asked any questions about it at the embassy? You must have had your exit stamp from Laos cancelled to re-enter the country. Did the Thai embassy notice and ask why?

Or were you given the visa without any questions?

Thanks for the report.

[PREM-R]

I have often wondered what would happen in a situation such as faced by the OP. When you leave Laos your visa is marked "Used" and you are stamped out of the country, when you are refused entry to Thailand presumably you get on the shuttle back to Laos and then what? Do you apply for another visa for Laos? Will they not be asking why you have applied for two, 30 day visas in one day? When you explain that you have been denied entry to Thailand will they be happy to allow you to enter Laos? Very weird situation

[LivinLOS]

Well theres the first report..

Gonne be interesting couple of months..

Now its the mistakes and abnormalities to catalogue..

[Mai Krap]

This is the first direct story of a person from a first world country being denied. It's a very bad sign for visa runners (myself included), but another promising indication that there are no restrictions on tourist visas.

Were you asked any questions about it at the embassy? You must have had your exit stamp from Laos cancelled to re-enter the country. Did the Thai embassy notice and ask why?

Or were you given the visa without any questions?

Thanks for the report.

Nobody asked me anything and if youve ever been to the consulate in Vientiane you know they cant answer any questions you might have, helll they dont even bother to keep the que sorted but its not nearly as bad as it was 4 years ago at the old place with people cutting the line holding 20 passports for the drunk guys who showed up late.

My basic understanding is the consulates were not getting their cut so the new rule is applied to force you to pay a little. Many guys like me were happy to go to the consulate before to get tourist visas till they screwed that up by being stingy with them and now things have gone full circle. Like many laws and changes made here I just dont believe it was well thought out. When the Laos are doing a better job than the Thais at the border of keeping things sorted and getting people through the que and can give you an immediate visa (Via online computer check) on arrival things are beyond pearshaped. I dont for a minute buy the bulllshit excuse that the consulate can do a better background check, that is pure rubbish, if anything they are just worried that the guys who work on the border will cut them out of the till.

I dont usually bother to comment on this subject since I have been left standing in lines here many times for no damm reason but this last deal was over the top even for me. Im sure glad my wifes Thai passport has that microchip in it so I can show it to all the grandmas out at my families village, thats all the damm thing is good for since the border guys cant even be bothered with using a handheld bar code scanner.

Maybe I should que in the auto lane on the family Buffarow for faster results!

[wornoutcowboy]

I too did my fourth entry into thailand a few days back and it was a bit of madness at the Thai side of the border. I had 3 days of being in Thailand but with three entry stamps. The immigration man did tear apart my passport and counted every single entry. Being my passport is one major mess with all the now pages added this wasn't easy. The immigration man clearly couldn't do math bveing he came up with a totalof 80 days. I had to give him a math lesson. Another immigration officer is on hand to help with the counting. I ended up holding up the line for a long, long time.

The Thai immigration is clearly being overwhelmed with all of this counting business but so it goes.

Oh, and in regards to all o fthe Arficans and Sri Lankans in VTE Idon't think the new rules in place have anything to do with their presence here. The Thais have been refusing visas to all of the Africans for years now. They have not had the VOA option fora long time. Most I meet are actually doing border runs from China where they are doing the rag trade. The Sri Lankans all appear to be Tamils and are here waiting out the war. Laos is one of the few countries that will admit them. Thailand turned their back on them years ago.

Well, in the summing up I too believe Iwould have been refused entry into thailand if Ihad been there for 90 days. If you are at that point I would hit the embassy in VTE andtry to get a visa before trying the return trip.

[Mai Krap]

Since the subject is being brought up I will confirm that I was denied a 30day entry visa for having been in Thailand more than 90 days. I was told on no uncertain terms that I could not get another thirty day tourist visa and was sent back across no mans land into Laos.

This does not ring true.

How did you get back into Laos??

Why no 7 days pack you bags stamp?

Being denied entry into Thailand and returning to Laos happens everday, Its no big deal. You just go back to the Lao side and they cancel your exit stamp and then dig through the papers till they find yours then use the numbers to change it on the computer. There is no fee but I reccomend a donation to whoever does it, a hundred baht is plenty. Its their choice and if they wanted to be assses they could make you wait hours or even pay again the visa fee.

I was not told I was blacklisted or anything like that, I was politely but firmly told I needed to go to the consulate, I did and all was well outside of the que and the wait.

If your saying "This does not ring true." as if Im not telling the whole story or flat out lieing or something I will just say you were not there, I was, thats what happened, just like I said.

Again the bottem line last week was they wanted 1,000 baht at the consulate, who knows what will happen next week. Now that pandoras box is opened the instability or comfort zone many had here by feeling always welcomed is gone. It always was a myth and Thailand is somewhat of a fairytale but I for one like a good story even if the trojan in it has now become a latex product for most.

[londonthai]

yes, you can re-enter Laos on this same visa without any problem - happened to me a few years back.

another funny story about Nong Kai crossing that after leaving Laos into the no mans land where the shutle busses get you to thailand - there is no public toilet and you have to deposit your passport with Lao emmigration to go back for a leak

[Dupont]

it all works, even if we don't know how. in the end, we'll all find a way.

Thats the common sense post of the day. Of course we will.

We've done it in the past, some of us many times. Thats how we ended up here. Its easily done again and new horizens bring new excitements as well.

The expats currently holed up in Cambodia and Vientienne I am sure, will not be crying into their beers. They'l be looking for the next opportunity, and when we go on visa runs, we will be staying in their places and drinking in their bars.

Good luck to all and please keep us posted. I was planning a few months in Laos, Vietnam and Cambodia again next low season. Let us know where is developing.

Your first opportunity could be to set up laosvisa.com or etc! Somebody must have the IT skills.

Edited January 9, 2007 by Dupont

[SqdnGuns]

Your first opportunity could be to set up laosvisa.com or etc! Somebody must have the IT skills.

D@mn, domain already owned................. http://laosvisa.com/ by Myanmar Visa Experts Service, Myanmar (Burma)

Edited January 9, 2007 by SqdnGuns

[kasi]

Seems like a great big non issue since the 60 day tourist visa was easily obtained.

I don't get what everyone is going on about.

If your prefer Cambodia or Vietnam great. But I hardly see the "great" inconvenience for the 30 days stampers. So now you have to get a 60 day tourist visa which allows you to stay 90 days with the extension, boohoo! The sky is falling! <deleted>!

[jeebusjones]

Seems like a great big non issue since the 60 day tourist visa was easily obtained.

I don't get what everyone is going on about.

If your prefer Cambodia or Vietnam great. But I hardly see the "great" inconvenience for the 30 days stampers. So now you have to get a 60 day tourist visa which allows you to stay 90 days with the extension, boohoo! The sky is falling! <deleted>!

The concern is that consulates/embassies may not continue to give back to back tourist visas. If people were guaranteed unlimited tourist visas, I don't think there would be anyone complaining. But there is a certain level of uncertainty and that makes people uneasy.

I do think there will always be a way to stay here for anyone that really wants it.

[kasi]

^ a very simple solution is outlined in this post

It's not rocket science!

[Mai Krap]

Seems like a great big non issue since the 60 day tourist visa was easily obtained.

I don't get what everyone is going on about.

If your prefer Cambodia or Vietnam great. But I hardly see the "great" inconvenience for the 30 days stampers. So now you have to get a 60 day tourist visa which allows you to stay 90 days with the extension, boohoo! The sky is falling! <deleted>!

The concern is that consulates/embassies may not continue to give back to back tourist visas. If people were guaranteed unlimited tourist visas, I don't think there would be anyone complaining. But there is a certain level of uncertainty and that makes people uneasy.

I do think there will always be a way to stay here for anyone that really wants it.

Youve hit the nail on the head, The thirty day visa run was as basic and stable as the sun coming up in the morning and rice being served with every meal in Issarn. That stability has been rocked by this no matter what was intended by its change.

[jeebusjones]

^ a very simple solution is outlined in this post

It's not rocket science!

I agree it's not rocket science. If that "solution" works, great. But no one really knows if embassies/consulates will continue to issue tourist visas to someone with that sort of background. If the law is intended to prevent people from staying in Thailand permanently as "tourists," then it seems quite likely that embassies might start limiting the number of tourist visas given to a single person. The fact that neighboring countries have already stopped issuing even double entry tourist visas does not bode well for the future.

If you're not effected by the new regulations, that's excellent for you. But the rules have affected many, many people, and for them there is a very real cause for concern.

That said, I still believe there will always be a way to stay for those who really want it.

Edited January 9, 2007 by jeebusjones

[Mai Krap]

^ a very simple solution is outlined in this post

It's not rocket science!

I agree it's not rocket science. If that "solution" works, great. But no one really knows if embassies/consulates will continue to issue tourist visas to someone with that sort of background. If the law is intended to prevent people from staying in Thailand permanently as "tourists," then it seems quite likely that embassies might start limiting the number of tourist visas given to a single person. The fact that neighboring countries have already stopped issuing even double entry tourist visas does not bode well for the future.

If you're not effected by the new regulations, that's excellent for you. But the rules have affected many, many people, and for them there is a very real cause for concern.

That said, I still believe there will always be a way to stay for those who really want it.

The simple plan was the 30 day border run, the action proposed of running here and there marking calenders exiting and back and forth while getting in long ques for uncertain outcomes is no simple plan.

All of this could have been avoided by simply making a unlimeted thirty day extension in country with a 1,000 baht per month fee. This would do everything that needs to be done like register an address, run a deep background check if desired, let people remain in the country, avoid long and undesirable ques standing in the sun. This would cause one big problem though, people who never were collecting much money would now be rolling in it and the consulates at Penang, Kuala Lumpur, and Vientiane would get screwed out of what they consider their private resource.

Heres another tidbit of news for you guys, I just talked to a friend who tried to renew his non immigrant visa in KL and he was told they are now only taking 100 sets of paperwork per day and he should come back tommorow as he missed the mark. He did not have time to submit and wait through the weekend so now has reentered Thailand on a thirty day visa and renewed it one time. Now he will spend a few more days and more expense going out of the country to try and submit his papers again. This is all putting a bigtime burdon on the consulates, and no they were not and never have been prepared to deal with anything like this, they were barely functional before the current strain.

Im actualy happy about this change of events as I become a little to comfortable here, Tonight I had a nice dinner with a guy from Brazil and maybe I will go over there for three months or so, helll about anywhere will do I guess, maybe I will even get another real job and just come here on holiday as the BS has become quite a bore.

[farangsay]

^ a very simple solution is outlined in this post

It's not rocket science!

I agree it's not rocket science. If that "solution" works, great. But no one really knows if embassies/consulates will continue to issue tourist visas to someone with that sort of background. If the law is intended to prevent people from staying in Thailand permanently as "tourists," then it seems quite likely that embassies might start limiting the number of tourist visas given to a single person. The fact that neighboring countries have already stopped issuing even double entry tourist visas does not bode well for the future.

If you're not effected by the new regulations, that's excellent for you. But the rules have affected many, many people, and for them there is a very real cause for concern.

That said, I still believe there will always be a way to stay for those who really want it.

The simple plan was the 30 day border run, the action proposed of running here and there marking calenders exiting and back and forth while getting in long ques for uncertain outcomes is no simple plan.

All of this could have been avoided by simply making a unlimeted thirty day extension in country with a 1,000 baht per month fee. This would do everything that needs to be done like register an address, run a deep background check if desired, let people remain in the country, avoid long and undesirable ques standing in the sun. This would cause one big problem though, people who never were collecting much money would now be rolling in it and the consulates at Penang, Kuala Lumpur, and Vientiane would get screwed out of what they consider their private resource.

Heres another tidbit of news for you guys, I just talked to a friend who tried to renew his non immigrant visa in KL and he was told they are now only taking 100 sets of paperwork per day and he should come back tommorow as he missed the mark. He did not have time to submit and wait through the weekend so now has reentered Thailand on a thirty day visa and renewed it one time. Now he will spend a few more days and more expense going out of the country to try and submit his papers again. This is all putting a bigtime burdon on the consulates, and no they were not and never have been prepared to deal with anything like this, they were barely functional before the current strain.

Im actualy happy about this change of events as I become a little to comfortable here, Tonight I had a nice dinner with a guy from Brazil and maybe I will go over there for three months or so, helll about anywhere will do I guess, maybe I will even get another real job and just come here on holiday as the BS has become quite a bore.

Actually I found a thread of sense in your post and it was an anomoly of the

visa run.

If you get a visa outside Thailand you pay a fee , to the Thai government.

If you make a visa run to a neighbouring country you pay nothing to the

Thai government.

The idea that you could pay 1000b every month to Thai immigration

rather than paying 1000b/2000b and a day and a sore backside for a

visa run is obviously ridiculous.

The idea that this would enable immigration offices in Bangkok/Pattaya/

Phuket to keep better track of you is even more ridiculous.

The fact that they could ask you , on a monthly basis , to establish that

your source of income is external and not from illegal working in Thailand

is just too ridiculous for words.

Isn't nice to be in a country where they have such a wonderful appreciation

of the ridiculous ?

[kasi]

^

It is a comical situation.

They could get 2000 baht for an in country 30 day stamp. That in effect would be the equivalent to the tax those of us who legally maintain WPs have to to pay. The 30 day stamper would have the benefit of nor having to incur the lawyer and accounting fees.