Word Association (2024)

[webfact]

Trump: military option for North Korea not preferred, but would be 'devastating'

By Steve Holland and Idrees Ali

 

A combination photo shows U.S. President Donald Trump in New York, U.S. September 21, 2017 and North Korean leader Kim Jong Un in this undated photo released by North Korea's Korean Central News Agency (KCNA) in Pyongyang, September 4, 2017. REUTERS/Kevin Lamarque, KCNA/Handout via REUTERS/Files

 

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - President Donald Trump warned North Korea on Tuesday that any U.S. military option would be "devastating" for Pyongyang, but said the use of force was not Washington's first option to deal with the country's ballistic and nuclear weapons programme.

 

"We are totally prepared for the second option, not a preferred option," Trump said at a White House news conference, referring to military force. "But if we take that option, it will be devastating, I can tell you that, devastating for North Korea. That's called the military option. If we have to take it, we will."

 

Bellicose statements by Trump and North Korean leader Kim Jong Un in recent weeks have created fears that a miscalculation could lead to action with untold ramifications, particularly since Pyongyang conducted its sixth and most powerful nuclear test on Sept. 3.

 

Despite the increased tension, the United States has not detected any change in North Korea's military posture reflecting an increased threat, the top U.S. military officer said on Tuesday.

 

The assessment by Marine Corps General Joseph Dunford, chairman of the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff, about Pyongyang's military stance was in contrast to a South Korean lawmaker who said Pyongyang had boosted defences on its east coast.

 

"While the political space is clearly very charged right now, we haven't seen a change in the posture of North Korean forces, and we watch that very closely," Dunford told a Senate Armed Services Committee hearing on his reappointment to his post.

 

In terms of a sense of urgency, "North Korea certainly poses the greatest threat today," Dunford testified.

 

A U.S. official speaking on the condition of anonymity said satellite imagery had detected a small number of North Korean military aircraft moving to the North's east coast. However the official said the activity did not change their assessment of Pyongyang's military posture.

 

North Korean Foreign Minister Ri Yong Ho on Monday accused Trump of declaring war on the North and threatened that Pyongyang would shoot down U.S. warplanes flying near the Korean Peninsula after American bombers flew close to it last Saturday. Ri was reacting to Trump's Twitter comments that Kim and Ri "won't be around much longer" if they acted on their threats towards the United States.

 

North Korea has been working to develop nuclear-tipped missiles capable of hitting the U.S. mainland, which Trump has said he will never allow. Dunford said Pyongyang will have a nuclear-capable intercontinental ballistic missile "soon," and it was only a matter of a "very short time".

 

"We clearly have postured our forces to respond in the event of a provocation or a conflict," the general said, adding that the United States has taken "all proper measures to protect our allies" including South Korean and Japan.

 

"It would be an incredibly provocative thing for them to conduct a nuclear test in the Pacific as they have suggested, and I think the North Korean people would have to realise how serious that would be, not only for the United States but for the international community," Dunford said.

 

South Korean lawmaker Lee Cheol-uoo, briefed by the country's spy agency, said North Korea was bolstering its defences by moving aircraft to its east coast and taking other measures after the flight by U.S. bombers. Lee said the United States appeared to have disclosed the flight route intentionally because North Korea seemed to be unaware.

 

U.S. Air Force B-1B Lancer bombers, escorted by fighter jets, flew east of North Korea in a show of force after the heated exchange of rhetoric between Trump and Kim.

 

The United States has imposed sanctions on 26 people as part of its non-proliferation designations for North Korea and nine banks, including some with ties to China, the U.S. Treasury Department's Office Of Foreign Assets Control Sanctions said on Tuesday.

 

The U.S. sanctions target people in North Korea and some North Korean nationals in China, Russia, Libya and Dubai, according to a list posted on the agency's website.

 

'CAPABILITY TO DETER'

 

U.S. Secretary of State Rex Tillerson will visit China from Thursday to Saturday for talks with senior officials that will include the crisis over North Korea and trade, the State Department said on Tuesday.

 

Evans Revere, a former senior diplomat who met with a North Korean delegation in Switzerland this month, said that Pyongyang had been reaching out to "organizations and individuals" to encourage talks with former U.S. officials to get a sense of the Trump administration's thinking.

 

"They've also been accepting invitations to attend dialogues hosted by others, including the Swiss and the Russians," he said.

 

Revere said his best guess for why the North Koreans were doing this was because they were "puzzled by the unconventional way that President Trump has been handling the North Korea issue" and were eager to use "informal and unofficial meetings to gain a better understanding of what is motivating Trump and his administration".

 

During a visit to India, U.S. Defense Secretary Jim Mattis said diplomatic efforts continued.

 

Speaking in Beijing, Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Lu Kang said war on the Korean Peninsula would have no winner.

 

"We hope the U.S. and North Korean politicians have sufficient political judgement to realise that resorting to military force will never be a viable way to resolve the peninsula issue and their own concerns," Lu said.

 

South Korean President Moon Jae-in urged Kim Jong Un to resume military talks and reunions of families split by the 1950-53 Korean War to ease tension.

 

"Like I've said multiple times before, if North Korea stops its reckless choices, the table for talks and negotiations always remains open," Moon said.

 

In Moscow, Russia's Foreign Ministry said it was working behind the scenes to find a political solution and that it plans to hold talks with a representative of North Korea's foreign ministry who is due to arrive in Moscow on Tuesday, the RIA news agency cited the North's embassy to Russia as saying.

 

The United States and South Korea are technically still at war with North Korea after the 1950-53 conflict ended in a truce and not a peace treaty.

 

For a graphic on Kim Jong Un’s latest act of defiance, click http://tmsnrt.rs/2wfiBPS

 

(Additional reporting by Christine Kim in SEOUL, Christian Shepherd in BEIJING Michelle Nichols at the UNITED NATIONS, Dmitry Solovyov in MOSCOW, Malini Menon in NEW DELHI and Doina Chiacu, David Alexander, Susan Heavey, David Brunnstrom and Matt Spetalnick in WASHINGTON; Writing by Yara Bayoumy; Editing by Grant McCool and James Dalgleish)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-09-27

[tonray]

He forgot to add "devastating for South Korea and the global economy too...devastating, I can tell you that bigly"

 

 

Edited September 27, 2017 by tonray

[quadperfect]

It seems the line has been drawn. Kim shoots down a plane or blows off a pacific nuke test .

[theguyfromanotherforum]

North Korea is not like some other religious countries that shall not be named due to PC censorship.

 

I grew up in communist state and can assure you that commies value life, science and will not behead you if you lead a different lifestyle. Of course, the regime is completely totalitarian and you may die if you say the wrong thing IN NORTH KOREA.

 

How many fanatical North Korean terrorists have you seen? Not many as most North Koreans want to be free of the regime and even the regime is generally non violent except when it comes to its own existence. Trump would do well to shut his mouth in this instance and let the Korea progress naturally. The government will eventually be overthrown or at least become more open to foreigners and investments. Just check some youtube videos taken from tourists in 2015 and 2016 and you will see that some Americans who went there openly talk crap in public and in front of the "actors" and nothing happens to them. 

 

Trump would do well to shut his mouth. Putin is right.

 

[craigt3365]

4 minutes ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

North Korea is not like some other religious countries that shall not be named due to PC censorship.

 

I grew up in communist state and can assure you that commies value life, science and will not behead you if you lead a different lifestyle. Of course, the regime is completely totalitarian and you may die if you say the wrong thing IN NORTH KOREA.

 

How many fanatical North Korean terrorists have you seen? Not many as most North Koreans want to be free of the regime and even the regime is generally non violent except when it comes to its own existence. Trump would do well to shut his mouth in this instance and let the Korea progress naturally. The government will eventually be overthrown or at least become more open to foreigners and investments. Just check some youtube videos taken from tourists in 2015 and 2016 and you will see that some Americans who went there openly talk crap in public and in front of the "actors" and nothing happens to them. 

 

Trump would do well to shut his mouth. Putin is right.

 

The regime is generally non violent except when it comes to it's own existence?  That means it's violent!  Because it's only purpose is to support it's own existence.  And it's people have been suffering because of this for years.

 

Trump should shut his mouth.  Putin is right.  They won't give up their nuclear weapons.  But that doesn't mean the global community should turn a blind eye to what they are doing.  Quite the contrary.  The consequences of letting them continue is not good.  South Korea is now considering starting their own nuclear weapons program.  Japan is pushing for a beefed up military.  All because of NK.

 

Blame lies with Kim.  He can stop the craziness instantly.  His people would benefit greatly from it.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Just now, craigt3365 said:

The regime is generally non violent except when it comes to it's own existence?  That means it's violent!  Because it's only purpose is to support it's own existence.  And it's people have been suffering because of this for years.

 

Trump should shut his mouth.  Putin is right.  They won't give up their nuclear weapons.  But that doesn't mean the global community should turn a blind eye to what they are doing.  Quite the contrary.  The consequences of letting them continue is not good.  South Korea is now considering starting their own nuclear weapons program.  Japan is pushing for a beefed up military.  All because of NK.

 

Blame lies with Kim.  He can stop the craziness instantly.  His people would benefit greatly from it.

 

Kim is a criminal and should be "replaced". Bang.

 

However, there are a lot worse things happening in the world and Trump (or Hilary if she was a prez, I am sure) doesn't give a flyin' about it. Saudi regime is just as oppressive. Big news today they allow women to drive...wow! Many very bad things happening in Africa that can actually be stopped today. There are no nuclear weapons there.

 

I think Trumps ego has been butthurt, so he can't stop. 

 

Oh well, I just hope millions of Koreans don't die because of his and Kim's ego.

 

 

 

 

[sweatalot]

Trump stop talking. Start acting. 

[BuaBS]

5 hours ago, sweatalot said:

Trump stop talking. Start acting. 

Trump stop talking/provoking and just ignore Kim . Get those US troops out of SK and any US military ships near NK.

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, theguyfromanotherforum said:

 

Kim is a criminal and should be "replaced". Bang.

 

However, there are a lot worse things happening in the world and Trump (or Hilary if she was a prez, I am sure) doesn't give a flyin' about it. Saudi regime is just as oppressive. Big news today they allow women to drive...wow! Many very bad things happening in Africa that can actually be stopped today. There are no nuclear weapons there.

 

I think Trumps ego has been butthurt, so he can't stop. 

 

Oh well, I just hope millions of Koreans don't die because of his and Kim's ego.

Saudi regime is truly bad.  But I think this is the #1 problem in the world today.  Proliferation of nuclear weapons.  I shudder to think if we leave Kim alone and he gives a dirty bomb to IS for use in a major Western capital.  Saudi's BS will pale in comparison.

[craigt3365]

27 minutes ago, BuaBS said:

Trump stop talking/provoking and just ignore Kim . Get those US troops out of SK and any US military ships near NK.

US troops should leave when Kim gets rid of the thousands of artillery pieces pointed towards Seoul.  And stops military encounters with the South.  Tit for tat, right?

[sweatalot]

27 minutes ago, BuaBS said:

Trump stop talking/provoking and just ignore Kim . Get those US troops out of SK and any US military ships near NK.

The provocation is only on the NK (kim)  side - Trump is reacting and not very skillful it seems

[stevenl]

16 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

US troops should leave when Kim gets rid of the thousands of artillery pieces pointed towards Seoul.  And stops military encounters with the South.  Tit for tat, right?

SK itself has a big, big military, with thousands of artillery pieces pointed towards NK. US presence here is not helping at all, and the rhetoric coming from both sides is making things worse.

[craigt3365]

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

SK itself has a big, big military, with thousands of artillery pieces pointed towards NK. US presence here is not helping at all, and the rhetoric coming from both sides is making things worse.

The rhetoric has been coming from NK for decades.  Nothing new there.  But yes, Trump needs to shut up.

[fxe1200]

Noam Chomsky: "China & North Korea made a proposal to freeze North Korean missile/nuclear weapons systems; the US instantly rejected it"

 

https://twitter.com/robn1980/status/895205737756012545/video/1

[craigt3365]

42 minutes ago, fxe1200 said:

Noam Chomsky: "China & North Korea made a proposal to freeze North Korean missile/nuclear weapons systems; the US instantly rejected it"

 

https://twitter.com/robn1980/status/895205737756012545/video/1

BS.  Hard to listen to Noam.  China made the proposal to keep THAAD out of the region. 

 

If China was so interested in this why didn't they live up to the UN sanctions? LOL

[Thaidream]

Need a lot more than  freezing at current levels.  NKorea has 60 A Bombs/Nuclear Weapons and the capability to mount them in intercontinental ballistic missiles.  The agreement needs to include a complete stop on any further misle progress or testing and the removal of the nuclear weapons from N Korea control. Possibly Chinese or Russian Control.  In addition, NK needs to pull back its conventional forces from the DMZ.  China needs to sign a protocol guaranteeing this takes place and America has a right to inspect.

 

At the same time- America will agree to no regime change in NKorea; America will stop military exercises in S Korea and reduce or remove US military from the South. The ultimate goal should be denuclearization of the Korea peninsula.

[stevenl]

21 minutes ago, craigt3365 said:

BS.  Hard to listen to Noam.  China made the proposal to keep THAAD out of the region. 

 

If China was so interested in this why didn't they live up to the UN sanctions? LOL

Hard to listen to him so it is bullshit. I have heard more convincing arguments, and he is claiming exactly what I am saying, so I tend to agree with him :)

[Grouse]

Speak biggly and carry a soft stick.

 

Dump the Trump and get a real statesman to work out a way forward together with the Chinese.

[craigt3365]

7 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Hard to listen to him so it is bullshit. I have heard more convincing arguments, and he is claiming exactly what I am saying, so I tend to agree with him :)

It's much more complicated than the headline suggests.  If it was so easy, why didn't China deal with this years ago when they were running the 6 party talks?  China as no leverage with NK and is more worried about THAAD than anything else.

 

Deja vu?

http://content.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1572764,00.html

Quote

Here's a no-brainer prediction for 2007: North Korean negotiators will spend the year driving their American counterparts crazy. They will also manage to squeeze some concessions out of the U.S. while giving nothing substantial away themselves, and in the meantime continue developing an arsenal of nuclear weapons.

 

[Morch]

2 hours ago, stevenl said:

SK itself has a big, big military, with thousands of artillery pieces pointed towards NK. US presence here is not helping at all, and the rhetoric coming from both sides is making things worse.

 

South Korea doesn't have thousands of artillery pieces pointed at Pyongyang, which is out of range for most artillery systems operated by South Korea. There's a difference between having a large army, and a sizeable artillery force, and it being specifically aimed at civilian targets.

 

USA forces are in South Korea according to an agreement. If South Korea felt their presence is unhelpful, the agreement would be terminated. Again with the same "logic" - understandable for North Korea (or rather, Kim's regime) to have a deterrent, not so acceptable when it comes to South Korea.

[stevenl]

44 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

South Korea doesn't have thousands of artillery pieces pointed at Pyongyang, which is out of range for most artillery systems operated by South Korea. There's a difference between having a large army, and a sizeable artillery force, and it being specifically aimed at civilian targets.

 

USA forces are in South Korea according to an agreement. If South Korea felt their presence is unhelpful, the agreement would be terminated. Again with the same "logic" - understandable for North Korea (or rather, Kim's regime) to have a deterrent, not so acceptable when it comes to South Korea.

[Ron19]

An off topic post has been removed.

Take note this topic is " Trump: military option for North Korea not preferred, but would be 'devastating "

and involves America and North Korea.

[Morch]

5 minutes ago, stevenl said:

 

Yeah, a great way to avoid factual issues in your post and dodge any explanations as to why only side is deemed worthy of holding a deterrent.

[stevenl]

9 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Yeah, a great way to avoid factual issues in your post and dodge any explanations as to why only side is deemed worthy of holding a deterrent.

Just doing what you always do, and in this case you come with arguments that do not hold up. And I must say I like it.

 

If you think SK artillery can not obliterate a big part of NK, please come back. If not, your argument is nonsense.

[Morch]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

Just doing what you always do, and in this case you come with arguments that do not hold up. And I must say I like it.

 

If you think SK artillery can not obliterate a big part of NK, please come back. If not, your argument is nonsense.

 

South Korean artillery is not trained on North Korean civilians. North Korean artillery is poised to strike Seoul. Find the differences. There wasn't any claim made with regard to South Korean artillery being ineffectual, but rather as to its designated role in combat - which is not to hold the other side's capital and civilians hostage.

[stevenl]

5 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

South Korean artillery is not trained on North Korean civilians. North Korean artillery is poised to strike Seoul. Find the differences. There wasn't any claim made with regard to South Korean artillery being ineffectual, but rather as to its designated role in combat - which is not to hold the other side's capital and civilians hostage.

You're avoiding the question, as usual, " If you think SK artillery can not obliterate a big part of NK, please come back. If not, your argument is nonsense. ".

[craigt3365]

3 minutes ago, stevenl said:

Just doing what you always do, and in this case you come with arguments that do not hold up. And I must say I like it.

 

If you think SK artillery can not obliterate a big part of NK, please come back. If not, your argument is nonsense.

You need to look at a map.  Seoul is near the border, Pyongyang is not.  Max range for artillery is 50km.  Here's what SK has:

http://www.army-technology.com/projects/thunderselfpropelled/

Quote

 

The gun can fire a standard M107 high-explosive (HE) projectile for a maximum range of 18km.

Maximum range firing the HE rocket assisted projectile (RAP) with uni-charge of five zones, is 30km. It can also fire a K307 projectile with a modular-charge of six zones for a maximum range of over 40km.

 

 

To show how bad it is, look at this map.  Amazing SK let this go on for so long.

 

http://www.businessinsider.com/north-koreas-artillery-capabilities-2017-6

[Golgota]

1 hour ago, Thaidream said:

Need a lot more than  freezing at current levels.  NKorea has 60 A Bombs/Nuclear Weapons and the capability to mount them in intercontinental ballistic missiles.  The agreement needs to include a complete stop on any further misle progress or testing and the removal of the nuclear weapons from N Korea control. Possibly Chinese or Russian Control.  In addition, NK needs to pull back its conventional forces from the DMZ.  China needs to sign a protocol guaranteeing this takes place and America has a right to inspect.

 

At the same time- America will agree to no regime change in NKorea; America will stop military exercises in S Korea and reduce or remove US military from the South. The ultimate goal should be denuclearization of the Korea peninsula.

The idea is the perfect one, but Kim may think about how things went for countries in middle east and how Tangerine#45 wants so bad to rip the Iran deal...

 

 

[Morch]

1 minute ago, stevenl said:

You're avoiding the question, as usual, " If you think SK artillery can not obliterate a big part of NK, please come back. If not, your argument is nonsense. ".

 

Not avoiding any question, not even your inane loaded one.

 

The issue isn't how effective South Korea's artillery is, but rather the ways it is designed to be put to use in combat. And destruction of North Korea's capital, or intentionally inflicting mass civilian casualties aren't among them. North Korea's artillery is a different story. Then there's the matter of geography and distances.

[Golgota]

8 minutes ago, stevenl said:

You're avoiding the question, as usual, " If you think SK artillery can not obliterate a big part of NK, please come back. If not, your argument is nonsense. ".

https://www.cnbc.com/2017/09/25/korean-war-simulation-by-dod-estimates-20000-deaths-daily-in-south.html

 

Read about this, it is quite interesting and also shows a lot of what Morch tries to explain to you

Edited September 27, 2017 by Golgota