Driving - specifically on dual-carriageways - in Thailand

[Ossy]

At long last (just over 5yrs) I think I've found what I was looking for, regarding 'good' lane discipline on dual carriageway roads. Like most visiting drivers, I found it inexplicable that about 90% of Thai drivers head straight for the right-hand lane as soon as they join a dual-c road, when, 'at home' it was accepted that the 'keep left (nearside)' rule not only made good sense from the entry and exit point of view, but enabled drivers to continue to overtake other vehicles on the right, as on single-c roads. That Thai drivers considered it OK, on dual-c roads, for this rule to be reversed, as if ordered by some non-existent, mystical rule-maker, had me completely puzzled. Especially so when, from 2015 to 2016, on Highway 22 into Sakon Nakhon, Ministry signs had been erected, about every km, advising/asking slower traffic to keep to the left. This did make some difference but only to the extent that RH lane-hoggers reduced from 90 to about 60% . . . most still stuck to the RH lane and sadly, the Sak-Nak lane discipline initiative was apparently abandoned, with the removal of these well-meaning signs, which must have cost mega-bahts to install.

 

I really enjoy driving - always have done - and this LH vs RH lane issue has never escaped my thoughts; as evidenced by my regular looking for the Thai equivalent of The Highway Code each time I visited a book shop. And I wondered what advice, if any, on this lane issue, is given to new drivers as they apply for and take the shamefully easy Thai driving test. You might laugh if I tell you that, especially during the past month when he has scarcely been out of the news, I have wondered which lane General Prayuth believes is the correct one for 'quiet' driving on dual-carriageways . . . and I bet he always sticks to the RH one. I could be wrong, of course.

 

But, the main motive, behind my submitting this new topic, is not my puzzlement or frustration over the lane issue, but my thinking that I have, at last, found the book of rules that tells us all how to behave on Thailand's roads. Just look at 'Lane Position' rule no. 1 which, I have to say puts a smug smile on my face. Yes, it is good to know that you're right, when you can see the 90% of 'idiot' drivers - including GP, maybe - following this mythical RH lane doctrine.

 

Here's the link and I hope it brings as much comfort to 'you lot' as it's brought to me. And, if 90% of you tell me that you've always known this and that 'I am an Ostrich', I won't believe you.

 

http://anachak.co.uk/highwaycode.php

 

People who think they know everything are a great annoyance to those of us who do. Isaac Asimov

Edited September 30, 2017 by Ossy
punctuation

[stevenl]

Is there any point in this post except bring Prayuth in it?

[steve187]

3 hours ago, stevenl said:

Is there any point in this post except bring Prayuth in it?

every point, its in the motoring section and its about motoring, maybe not everyone cuppa tea, but it something that affects all that drive in Thailand

[cooked]

I sometimes look at a UK webcam site showing what is considered by indignant viewers to be shocking behaviour (overtaking on the left, stuff like that). They make me smile, although of course UK drivers do have the right to assume that other road users will drive according to the law (especially the one that says DON'T be an ar## hole).

If you assume that Thai drivers are going to worry about anyone else but themselves then you are going to have problems. I just assume that the most selfish, thoughtless thing that could happen in a certain situation probably will happen.

Anyway. On many stretches of road the inside (left side) lane is often in a pitiful state of repair, and especially if you don't know the road, drivers, including myself, will tend to drive on the right. Difference: I look in the mirror to see if I am obstructing anyone but by that time the guy will be overtaking me on the left anyway, he doesn't mind, neither do I. I also overtake on the left when I consider it safe to do so.

Thanks for the link to what you call the Thai Highway Code. Even if this was available in Thai, no one would bother reading it. About five years ago a guy wrote here that he had at long last found a Thai Highway Code, printed about 30 years previously, and his Thai colleagues were most interested and surprised by it.

 

What I am sort of getting at is that Thais aren't like Brits, and their way of driving is a perfect expression of their attitude towards life in general. Prevention isn't considered a virtue. They don't receive any education regarding road safety, road accidents are shown on TV without explaining why it happened, traffic engineers seem to ignore stuff that I learnt 50 years ago, police don't help and are equally ignorant of basic traffic requirements... this really is a case of take it or leave it, not going to change.

 

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, cooked said:

I sometimes look at a UK webcam site showing what is considered by indignant viewers to be shocking behaviour (overtaking on the left, stuff like that). They make me smile, although of course UK drivers do have the right to assume that other road users will drive according to the law (especially the one that says DON'T be an ar## hole).

If you assume that Thai drivers are going to worry about anyone else but themselves then you are going to have problems. I just assume that the most selfish, thoughtless thing that could happen in a certain situation probably will happen.

Anyway. On many stretches of road the inside (left side) lane is often in a pitiful state of repair, and especially if you don't know the road, drivers, including myself, will tend to drive on the right. Difference: I look in the mirror to see if I am obstructing anyone but by that time the guy will be overtaking me on the left anyway, he doesn't mind, neither do I. I also overtake on the left when I consider it safe to do so.

Thanks for the link to what you call the Thai Highway Code. Even if this was available in Thai, no one would bother reading it. About five years ago a guy wrote here that he had at long last found a Thai Highway Code, printed about 30 years previously, and his Thai colleagues were most interested and surprised by it.

 

What I am sort of getting at is that Thais aren't like Brits, and their way of driving is a perfect expression of their attitude towards life in general. Prevention isn't considered a virtue. They don't receive any education regarding road safety, road accidents are shown on TV without explaining why it happened, traffic engineers seem to ignore stuff that I learnt 50 years ago, police don't help and are equally ignorant of basic traffic requirements... this really is a case of take it or leave it, not going to change.

 

Overtaking on the left is in accordance with the law.

[madmax2]

The speed limit on the majority of roads in Thailand is 90 KPH

The only vehicles who sometimes obey this limit are the heavy vehicles which usually but not always stick to the outside lane which ends up being in much worse conditions than the centre lane full of potholes etc

Most vehicles use the centre lane and adjust their speed to keep up to the traffic flow which is usually between 100 and 120 kph

I always drive in the centre lane and keep up to the traffic flow only pulling over to the outside lane if its safe to do so to let the idiots doing 150 KPH plus to pass me, if they cannot wait until it is safe for me to pull over so they can continue their mad rush to get nowhere i put my hazard warning lights on and let them weave around me at their own breakneck dangerous way of driving  

[Ace of Pop]

4 hours ago, madmax2 said:

The speed limit on the majority of roads in Thailand is 90 KPH

The only vehicles who sometimes obey this limit are the heavy vehicles which usually but not always stick to the outside lane which ends up being in much worse conditions than the centre lane full of potholes etc

Most vehicles use the centre lane and adjust their speed to keep up to the traffic flow which is usually between 100 and 120 kph

I always drive in the centre lane and keep up to the traffic flow only pulling over to the outside lane if its safe to do so to let the idiots doing 150 KPH plus to pass me, if they cannot wait until it is safe for me to pull over so they can continue their mad rush to get nowhere i put my hazard warning lights on and let them weave around me at their own breakneck dangerous way of driving  

So its fine to dither about at 50 MPH center lane with hazards on just because your trucks not loaded as its intended to be used n bounces about. You are not alone.

[madmax2]

24 minutes ago, Ace of Pop said:

So its fine to dither about at 50 MPH center lane with hazards on just because your trucks not loaded as its intended to be used n bounces about. You are not alone.

I said i drive at a speed that keeps up with the other traffic

I do not have a idea what you are talking about and do not own or drive a truck/lorry

[Familyonthemove]

7 hours ago, cooked said:

I sometimes look at a UK webcam site showing what is considered by indignant viewers to be shocking behaviour (overtaking on the left, stuff like that). They make me smile, although of course UK drivers do have the right to assume that other road users will drive according to the law (especially the one that says DON'T be an ar## hole).

If you assume that Thai drivers are going to worry about anyone else but themselves then you are going to have problems. I just assume that the most selfish, thoughtless thing that could happen in a certain situation probably will happen.

Anyway. On many stretches of road the inside (left side) lane is often in a pitiful state of repair, and especially if you don't know the road, drivers, including myself, will tend to drive on the right. Difference: I look in the mirror to see if I am obstructing anyone but by that time the guy will be overtaking me on the left anyway, he doesn't mind, neither do I. I also overtake on the left when I consider it safe to do so.

Thanks for the link to what you call the Thai Highway Code. Even if this was available in Thai, no one would bother reading it. About five years ago a guy wrote here that he had at long last found a Thai Highway Code, printed about 30 years previously, and his Thai colleagues were most interested and surprised by it.

 

What I am sort of getting at is that Thais aren't like Brits, and their way of driving is a perfect expression of their attitude towards life in general. Prevention isn't considered a virtue. They don't receive any education regarding road safety, road accidents are shown on TV without explaining why it happened, traffic engineers seem to ignore stuff that I learnt 50 years ago, police don't help and are equally ignorant of basic traffic requirements... this really is a case of take it or leave it, not going to change.

 

Just back from a trip to UK where I drove 2000 miles in a busy week of visits, and yes lane discipline is better than here, but I thought driving way too close to the car in front was worse than in Thailand.   I suspect UK drivers are getting complacent, because everyone needs to drive legally as they are on camera 100% of the time, and accident rates are comparatively low, but I saw the aftermath of two serious accidents on the motorways, so they still happen (admittedly if I drove 3000 km in Thailand I'd see evidence of many more than 2 accidents).

[chickenslegs]

5 hours ago, stevenl said:

Overtaking on the left is in accordance with the law.

 

True, in specific circumstances. Section 25 of this ... http://thailaws.com/law/t_laws/tlaw0140_5.pdf

[NanLaew]

When i first started driving in LOS over 35 years ago, getting busted for staying in the right lane was the major cash cow for traffic cops that weren't armed with radar back then. Nowadays, I doubt they enforce it much at all. A major contributor to right-lane hogging is the generally poor condition of the left-lane which tears up faster due to the constant heavy truck traffic. The worst surface for driving on is where the bitumen has deformed into two grooves with a hump in the middle which can make truck trailers jump around quite alarmingly. To avoid this zig-zagging, the inter-provincial buses like to cruise along in the right lane... then the bloody minivans of course.

[Ace of Pop]

2 hours ago, madmax2 said:

I said i drive at a speed that keeps up with the other traffic

I do not have a idea what you are talking about and do not own or drive a truck/lorry

If You dont have a truck you have suspension so bumpy bits are no prob, so stay in the slow lane like normal drivers. Middle lane dithering hoggers cause accidents. GORRIT.!

[Ossy]

27 minutes ago, Ace of Pop said:

 . . . so stay in the slow lane like normal drivers.

Don't you mean like good drivers should. Normal in Thailand, as I said in my intro, is for an estimated 90% of drivers to stay in - or 'hog' - the middle, RH lane, regardless of speed. We don't just want the slow trucks to keep to the left, do we? I want 'em all to keep left, 'cos I'm a-flashin' my lights and I'm a-comin' thro . . . got it?

[madmax2]

41 minutes ago, Ace of Pop said:

If You dont have a truck you have suspension so bumpy bits are no prob, so stay in the slow lane like normal drivers. Middle lane dithering hoggers cause accidents. GORRIT.!

Its obvious you have not driven a reasonably modern truck, they have better handling and ride than the majority of passenger sedans can travel as fast and are a lot more expensive to buy

If i was a owner driver of one i would stick to the centre lane as much as possible to save on expensive maintenance and repairs caused by driving on poorly maintained road surfaces GORRIT

 

Let the mugs who think they are race car drivers have the sections of road full of potholes and wreck their poorly maintained vehicles a bit quicker, and get them of the road 

Edited October 1, 2017 by madmax2

[Ossy]

8 minutes ago, madmax2 said:

Its obvious you have not driven a reasonably modern truck, they have better handling and ride than the majority of passenger sedans can travel as fast and are a lot more expensive to buy

If i was a owner driver of one i would stick to the centre lane as much as possible to save on expensive maintenance and repairs caused by driving on poorly maintained road surfaces GORRIT

 

Let the mugs who think they are race car drivers have the sections of road full of potholes and wreck their poorly maintained vehicles a bit quicker, and get them of the road 

Nice one, but, would you keep left if ALL the potholes were repaired and the LH lane was as SMOOOOTH as the right?

[madmax2]

The speed limit on the majority of highways in Thailand is 90 KPH

Most trucks and buses except the really clapped out ones travel at between 90 to 100 KPH

They are obeying the road laws unlike most of us as far as speed limits are concerned

Its the drivers who drive at between 50 to 80 KPH in the centre lane who everyone has to pass using the outside lane when its possible to pass who are a real pain in the butt  

[madmax2]

10 minutes ago, Ossy said:

Nice one, but, would you keep left if ALL the potholes were repaired and the LH lane was as SMOOOOTH as the right?

Yes i would , no B/S, but its not about to happen in the near future is it

I do now if the road surface is good on the outside lane which never lasts very long before i am back in the centre lane

At a guess about 95% of drivers who stay in the outside lane keep up with the traffic flow which is normally between 95 to 115 KPh on the main southern highway ( speed limit there is either 90 or 100 Kph) 

People who think they can drive at twice the legal speed limit can flash their lights as much as they want but will have to wait to i know, its safe to pull over to the outside lane to let them pass or just keep weaving thru the traffic as they normally do until they have or cause a accident

 

[Wiggy]

Forgive me if I misunderstand, but the article the OP posted a link to has to be false, surely. As I read it, it says that overtaking vehicles have the right of way and oncoming vehicles must move to the hard shoulder or as far left as possible to give them room to overtake. Although this may go some way to explaining the suicidal maneuvers we see, it can't be right. Also, the article says, "If on green you are turning left you must give way to oncoming motorcycles." Again, is this correct? What's the point of a green light if you have to stop and give way to errant motorcycles who have (I assume) passed through a red light. I'm confused.

[Ossy]

19 minutes ago, Wiggy said:

Forgive me if I misunderstand, but the article the OP posted a link to has to be false, surely. As I read it, it says that overtaking vehicles have the right of way and oncoming vehicles must move to the hard shoulder or as far left as possible to give them room to overtake. Although this may go some way to explaining the suicidal maneuvers we see, it can't be right. Also, the article says, "If on green you are turning left you must give way to oncoming motorcycles." Again, is this correct? What's the point of a green light if you have to stop and give way to errant motorcycles who have (I assume) passed through a red light. I'm confused.

Both these references are the 'Code's' advice, in order to keep out of harm's way in the quite likely event that there is some idiot, breaking the rules of good driving; first, an oncoming idiot, overtaking and 'coming at you' on your side of the road . . . yes the Code is stating the obvious - get out of the idiot's way, unless you want to die. Second, whilst turning left at the lights . . . you, I and everyone knows that bikers, in Thailand, cut corners, on 'the best line is a straight line' basis. Are you the sort of driver who'll simply mow down a biker who fouls your right of way? This post was started in a constructive attempt to help rid Thailand's roads of 'bad' driving . . . your help would be welcome, here.

[Pilotman]

I drive differently in LOS to the UK, as indeed I suspect do we all.  I try to stay in the middle lane on duelled roads for all the reasons mentioned here.  I try not to undertake, but I do it if need be.  I do sit in the outside lane at the speed limit if trucks etc on the inside lanes dictate its safer.  Frankly, I find the motorway driving here, no more unsafe than having to put up with the idiots on the UK roads, who should know better  At least the Thais do look in their mirrors occasionally. The one thing that  does drive me nuts is someone joining the road into the inside lane,  in front of moving traffic, who then virtually stops until its safe to pull out.  They dont seem to get it into their heads that getting up to road speed quickly is  a much safer way to join the road.  

[Wiggy]

19 minutes ago, Ossy said:

Both these references are the 'Code's' advice, in order to keep out of harm's way in the quite likely event that there is some idiot, breaking the rules of good driving; first, an oncoming idiot, overtaking and 'coming at you' on your side of the road . . . yes the Code is stating the obvious - get out of the idiot's way, unless you want to die. Second, whilst turning left at the lights . . . you, I and everyone knows that bikers, in Thailand, cut corners, on 'the best line is a straight line' basis. Are you the sort of driver who'll simply mow down a biker who fouls your right of way? This post was started in a constructive attempt to help rid Thailand's roads of 'bad' driving . . . your help would be welcome, here.

OK, now I get the reasons for the article being written, and I agree that it is stating the obvious. What I fail to see is that how can giving way to bad driving help rid the country of bad driving? By giving way the bad drivers are encouraged, surely. I have been driving here for 18 years on four wheels and 7 years prior that on two wheels. I have had my vehicle come into contact with others seven times, and most were motorcycles. I'm proud to say none of them were my fault. My insurance has taken care of some of them, but on occasion the other party has paid (It does happen! Lol). I do give way to idiots, but also let them know that they are an idiot.

[Ossy]

33 minutes ago, Pilotman said:

I try to stay in the middle lane on duelled roads for all the reasons mentioned here.  I try not to undertake, but I do it if need be.

Looks like you're torn between the L & R arguments and I understand this, but, if, as you say, apart from 'truck bullying', etc., you 'try to stay in the middle lane', along with my estimated 90% of other traffic, unless you like following the 'flock' of traffic, at a speed dictated by 'him at the front', and if you want to get past this hold-up, you will need to undertake, i.e. as long as you stay in your preferred middle, you will be forced to undertake. In fact, the only way that you can overtake in the correct way is by keeping to the outside, left lane.

 

It's the rock and a hard place situation, as it stands and the only way it can be improved is by better driver tuition, EDUCATION and testing.

[Ossy]

42 minutes ago, Wiggy said:

What I fail to see is that how can giving way to bad driving help rid the country of bad driving? By giving way the bad drivers are encouraged, surely.

So, what do you do; stand your ground, knowing that you've got right of way, in a gesture that all will see as aggressive? I don't believe that you would do that and that, like the rest of us, will shake your head in disbelief at t'other guy's stupidity and let him/her through. There's no way they can reverse out of your way, even if there was the space.

 

Like with Pilotman, it's the rock and a hard place situation, as it stands, and the only way it can be improved is by better driver tuition, EDUCATION and testing.

[Ace of Pop]

On 01/10/2017 at 5:33 PM, Ossy said:

Nice one, but, would you keep left if ALL the potholes were repaired and the LH lane was as SMOOOOTH as the right?

Clearly Not.! .

[Ace of Pop]

Seems to me the Op is referring to a regular run, or runs he regularly does. I do all over Thailand for 20 odd Years , up to 30K pm till recently, there are a few bad Provinces, but no where near the exaggerated inside bumpy bits bits he clearly uses. 

[stevenl]

3 hours ago, Wiggy said:

Forgive me if I misunderstand, but the article the OP posted a link to has to be false, surely. As I read it, it says that overtaking vehicles have the right of way and oncoming vehicles must move to the hard shoulder or as far left as possible to give them room to overtake. Although this may go some way to explaining the suicidal maneuvers we see, it can't be right. Also, the article says, "If on green you are turning left you must give way to oncoming motorcycles." Again, is this correct? What's the point of a green light if you have to stop and give way to errant motorcycles who have (I assume) passed through a red light. I'm confused.

I think websites like this, giving incorrect information and telling people how to drive against traffic rules should not be promoted here on TV.

[Wiggy]

5 hours ago, Ossy said:

So, what do you do; stand your ground, knowing that you've got right of way, in a gesture that all will see as aggressive? I don't believe that you would do that and that, like the rest of us, will shake your head in disbelief at t'other guy's stupidity and let him/her through. There's no way they can reverse out of your way, even if there was the space.

 

Like with Pilotman, it's the rock and a hard place situation, as it stands, and the only way it can be improved is by better driver tuition, EDUCATION and testing.

It is a rock and a hard place, I agree, but I very often stand my ground. Obviously if it's at high speed then it's not an option. Most situations where I've stood my ground the other party has backed down. I don't like it and am not proud of it (my wife goes mad), but I just hope that they might think twice about doing it again. Just my way of trying the education bit.

[Ossy]

4 hours ago, stevenl said:

I think websites like this, giving incorrect information and telling people how to drive against traffic rules should not be promoted here on TV.

Like Wiggy, who now knows better, you've totally missed the 'evasive action' point of some of the Code's advice. It was given on the pretext that there are and probably always will be idiots who make serious mistakes and that evasive action was better than a BANG! No matter, provided other readers take time to read between the lines.

[stevenl]

43 minutes ago, Ossy said:

Like Wiggy, who now knows better, you've totally missed the 'evasive action' point of some of the Code's advice. It was given on the pretext that there are and probably always will be idiots who make serious mistakes and that evasive action was better than a BANG! No matter, provided other readers take time to read between the lines.

You've totally missed my point " giving incorrect information and telling people how to drive against traffic rules should not be promoted here on TV. ".

[Ossy]

1 hour ago, stevenl said:

You've totally missed my point " giving incorrect information and telling people how to drive against traffic rules should not be promoted here on TV. ".

Yes . . . whatever