Should the British Government be responsible for housing and feeding ex-pats returning from Thailand?

[LivinginKata]

2 minutes ago, inThailand said:

If this guy was not an expat in LOS, but instead did all this in the UK, does this make a difference of whether he should be taken care of?

 

Sure it would. If in the UK and not working he would be on the dole or social and they they would pay his social/pension dues. 

[SheungWan]

6 hours ago, webfact said:

So he likes a drink and a cigarette, it’s not right he should stop the things he enjoys because he is forced to choose between alcohol and food trying to live on seventy quid a week, this country needs to wake up and take care of its own”

 

How many jobs was he fired from because of the booze?

 

[transam]

13 minutes ago, sanemax said:

 

   We are talking about this guy in particular .

Asylum seekers and terrorists are besides the point .

You left the U.K. , other people went to live in the UK

They may now be entitled to some things that you are not .

I still have my NI number.....

[SheungWan]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

At the age of 41, with no discernible skills, he's unlikely to rise much above subsistence living  .

 

His best chance/only chance is to realise that he's hit 'rock bottom' and that he needs to accept any programme offered that may help rid him of his addiction.  A long, hard road, but better than the life he's living.

He's probably not only been told that several times by people helping him out at each stage, but has no doubt made umpteen promises to do so. And then, back to the booze. Maybe the biggest decision for him now is deciding which London Underground station entrance to sit in front of.

Edited October 3, 2017 by SheungWan

[lvr181]

5 hours ago, Kerryd said:

Another example of someone who refuses to take responsibility for their own actions and tries to lay the blame on everyone else, in this case the government and migrants.
I'd say a big F. U. to him in a heartbeat.

Here's an idea. Start taking responsibility for YOUR OWN actions. Can't afford rent/food because you only have enough money for cigarettes and booze ? How about giving up the booze and smokes ?
H.T.F. do people get the impression that they are ENTITLED to having a lifestyle that pays for their every need (and then some) without having to put ANY effort into it ?

 

It seems he left the UK when he was 26 so no, he did NOT pay that much into "the system". He was running a bar in Thailand. He probably had alcohol issues before that (like many young people that can't handle their drink). Running a bar is a recipe for disaster if you can't control your drinking.
There are people who (literally) make a living off of selling "bars" to starry-eyed tourists who think it's the ticket to living in paradise forever.
(Maybe he had one of those little "fake bars" that set up next to popular bars and try to live off of their overflow like some you see in Soi 7 and other areas). 
Then there's the BS about not knowing that drinking and driving is wrong in the UK because "back in Thailand everyone does it". 

Many places have rules about how long you have to be there before being eligible for things like benefits and healthcare. Those rules are there to prevent abuse of the system (which would result in reduced service, higher costs, higher taxes, etc). 
Sheesh - I paid "into the system" for over 35 years (including over 21 years while in uniform) but I've been out of the country for a few years and not enrolled in the Healthcare system. If I went back I would have to enroll and pay into it (yeah, it's not totally "free" like some people think) for 3 months before I could try and get treatment (barring an emergency of course).

I knew a Brit that was living in Pattaya years ago. He was getting along by borrowing money from friends, using some to pay back other friends, some to have someone do a visa run for him and then partying on the rest. Naturally every month he had to borrow even larger sums of money and he had absolutely no way to pay it back. Eventually his "friends" wised up to what was going on and stopped lending him money.
He ended up moving "up country" to the girl friend's village where, of course, he had nothing to do but drink all day. He eventually got sick (liver) and friends/family back home scrapped money together to get him a plane ticket so he could get back to the UK (and the NHS).
Last I heard, he got treated, scrapped some more money together somehow and headed straight back to Thailand. 

Too many people these days have the idea that everything is always someone else's fault and that the world owes them a (very nice) lifestyle.Then, when they don't get what they want, they go whine to the media about how unfair it is !
 

 

 

"H.T.F. do people get the impression that they are ENTITLED to having a lifestyle that pays for their every need (and then some) without having to put ANY effort into it?"

 

Sounds like he must have been a politician?  

[Baerboxer]

7 hours ago, JAG said:

Given that this character is 41, and has spent the last 15 years in Thailand, he can't have paid little in the way of National Insurance contributions.

 

 

 

"With only £70 pounds a week coming in from the Government Mark found he was unable to contribute to his friend’s household bills and food budget as he only had enough money for cigarettes and alcohol."

 

I think that sentence sadly sums up his expectations. Someone will provide for him while he squanders his money on booze and smokes.

 

At 41, he's still an immature teenager avoiding responsibility.

[mommysboy]

3 hours ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

But they won't.

 

Beg to differ- one obstacle could be immediate access to NHS.

[mommysboy]

3 hours ago, tonray said:

It protects against all the other acute or chronic conditions you do not already have. I know many Brits here who cannot grasp the concept of insurance because rightly so they have NHS but have to protect yourself.  You really are protecting your assets more than your health in the end. 

 

Generally, it only protects to a certain extent and up to a given age.

[transam]

1 minute ago, mommysboy said:

 

Beg to differ- one obstacle could be immediate access to NHS.

Show me anyone with a NI number getting refused treatment....?

 

Or anyone.....?

[mommysboy]

3 hours ago, Howiehotspur said:

Yes but I haven't had plenty of chances , and as I say , I'd only expect the same as any immigrant would receive , plus I have paid national insurance for 39 years , my circumstances to ' Mark ' are completely different . 

Still your entitled to your opinion ofcourse . 

 

It's not so much about opinion as the rules. It's about residency really, not about how many chances or how much tax you have paid; perhaps it should be, and I particularly hate this pay as you go attitude has crept in recently as it negates the contributions paid earlier in life.

 

So actually, you, me, and our new cyber acquaintance are in the same boat.  Nobody need rock it.

Edited October 3, 2017 by mommysboy

[mommysboy]

3 hours ago, Happy enough said:

basically, yes. it is true. but it's no excuse for people of working age to not be doing just that and paying their way. too many people keep going back to the same immigrant thing which i agree with as long as it's not an excuse for your own failures which it seems to be in marks case. perhaps if he loved thailand so much he should have thought more about how to sustain himself here long term and if needed be went home and worked his way back with a plan. which ofcourse as his age he could well do, if he faces the real problem in his life first, the drink. if he doesn;t defeat that he'll end up in the gutter i'm afraid, seen it so many times before, haven't we all.

 

He's sick really, isn't he?  No point in judging him as anything other than that.

 

The best example I can give that most of a certain age from UK can relate to is George Best.  Here, we saw a prodigious talent gripped by the disease of alcoholism. 

 

It does no good to be moralistic, because there is a degree of alcoholism that is rather akin to a mental incapacity.  It's as if these people have a fatal flaw, and it's quite possibly genetic in nature.

Edited October 3, 2017 by mommysboy

[mommysboy]

8 minutes ago, transam said:

Show me anyone with a NI number getting refused treatment....?

 

Or anyone.....?

 

The rule is about residency.  He would be denied benefits for a certain time, and it could be difficult to receive elective surgery financed by NHS.  I think it unlikely.  Most people are clever enough not to let the cat out of the bag of course.  That applies to all of us expats.  You have to be aware of these things.  Mark obviously wasn't and stumbled in to yet another disaster.

[inThailand]

1 hour ago, LivinginKata said:

 

Sure it would. If in the UK and not working he would be on the dole or social and they they would pay his social/pension dues. 

 

So taxpayers would have paid for his 15 years IF he stayed in the UK? By being in LOS for 15 years he saved taxpayers alot of money!

[Thai Ron]

19 minutes ago, tingtongtourist said:

The guy left for Thailand in his early 20's. I cannot have see him already worked and building a nest egg for life in Thailand.

 

So you're basically saying, one shouldn't come to Thailand until one is old and smashed up.?

[inThailand]

4 minutes ago, Thai Ron said:

 

So you're basically saying, one shouldn't come to Thailand until one is old and smashed up.?

 

If you look around at the expats, thats seems to an accurate statement.

[tkenn]

I feel any Western country that has as liberal immigration/refugee policies as the UK, America, Canada, etc should offer all the same type if not more social benefits to ex-pats regardless of their emergency to return home.  If Mark had made better business decisions and invested wiser, and still lost all his money.  Would the negative folks on here still feel the same?  Either our countries help us all or they don't help us at all.

 

I am not sure about most other countries, but in America Uncle Sam will lend you the money to get back to your home country via the US Embassy.  Not sure of any assistance once you return though,

[Thai Ron]

3 hours ago, transam said:

The UK has zillions of foreign folk in the UK being taken care of that paid nothing into the system....

 

Far more homegrown scroungers from what I saw during my last visit to Blighty.

Most of the immigrants are working shit jobs and paying the taxes that fund the state pension benefits you're getting right now just as you funded the pensions of those who were retired while you were working.

 

This, of course, is lost on the whinging ingrates who maraud through these forums sniping and grousing about immigrants back home. They don't realise the whole system's one great big Ponzi scheme - they think they're "getting back what they put in" as if NI and tax is some sort of government saving account with their name next to an entry on a ledger.

 

[jak2002003]

That guy in the article sounds a bit of a looser, and most of the mistakes he made were of his own making.

 

However, UK should 'take care' of expats that return and need help, because they are British citizens and they (while living there), and their families and relatives who stayed there, have been paying taxes in the UK

 

If the UK helps European immigrants, and immigrants form other countries, then it should help its own people too.

 

But, I don't think there are there to bail out people who aren't willing to try to help themselves.  So, have some kind of time period and assessment for them to get work, sort themselves out, etc, and if they can't keep their end of the agreement then stop their benefits.  

[sanemax]

1 hour ago, inThailand said:

If this guy was not an expat in LOS, but instead did all this in the UK, does this make a difference of whether he should be taken care of?

 

   Apart from the first three months, he has been given the same assistance that he would have, had he never left the U.K.

[transam]

7 minutes ago, Thai Ron said:

 

Far more homegrown scroungers from what I saw during my last visit to Blighty.

Most of the immigrants are working shit jobs and paying the taxes that fund the state pension benefits you're getting right now just as you funded the pensions of those who were retired while you were working.

 

This, of course, is lost on the whinging ingrates who maraud through these forums sniping and grousing about immigrants back home. They don't realise the whole system's one great big Ponzi scheme - they think they're "getting back what they put in" as if NI and tax is some sort of government saving account with their name next to an entry on a ledger.

 

So you did a job survey in the UK on your hols..........BS...

[tingtongtourist]

18 minutes ago, Thai Ron said:

 

So you're basically saying, one shouldn't come to Thailand until one is old and smashed up.?

If you can look after yourself be sure to come at any age.

But on the bones of the ar$e because you stupidly squander everything on thai women.

So, got nothing,  25 y.o,

no real plan other than drinking, cannot work in thailand, wasting your best earning years...

 

How you think it will end?

 

[thaibeachlovers]

2 hours ago, inThailand said:

If this guy was not an expat in LOS, but instead did all this in the UK, does this make a difference of whether he should be taken care of?

He wouldn't have had to wait 3 months.

[sanemax]

9 minutes ago, tkenn said:

 If Mark had made better business decisions and invested wiser, and still lost all his money.  Would the negative folks on here still feel the same?  Either our countries help us all or they don't help us at all.

 

 

   If he had lost everything through no, or little fault of his own , I wouldnt begrudge him anything

[Thai Ron]

Just now, transam said:

So you did a job survey in the UK on your hols..........BS...

 

So what do you base your stupid assertions that immigrants are net scroungers?

Oh let me guess.......what you've read in the Daily Mail??

Did you do a survey on benefit claimants? Nah, didn't think so

At least my conclusions are based on what I saw with my own two eyes last year.

When was the last time you were in the UK?

 

[khunPer]

The question is not only about Britain – and in Mark's case it appear to be merely his own faults and problems – but a number of, at least Europen, countries with welfare support.

 

In a way, isn't it fair enough, when one leave and don't contribute to the community, one cannot just come back and claim welfare support from day one..?

 

On the other hand, what about retired expats, that have been paying tax to the homeland community all their working life; then leave for retirement in for example Southeast Asia, and by living outside of EU only receive a reduced government retirement pension – i.e. save the community for expenses, and need to live from savings and/or private pensions, as the small basic government pension don't cover enough – and even don't cost the homeland community anything in health care. If for whatever reason they return, shall such a retired expat be eligible for support from day one in the homeland..?

 

In the country I originates from, Denmark, the government talks about changing laws (more than one), so if you have not stayed in the country in 7 years during the last 8 years, you are not eligible for support. The reason is to limit migrants, including EU-citizens, to misuse the welfare system. For example comes many to study for free at the Danish universities – especially Chinese students – and on top claim government study-support-salary of same money level as the basic government retirement pension. That also mean, that an expat, retired or not, with children, cannot just go back and expect the child or children's higher education to be fully supported in his homeland, if the child has not been there during 7 years within the last 8 years.

 

There are numerous stories in the media from my homeland, about difficulties of returning – including high educated career workers after some years of foreign employment or successful business abroad – especially if they have found the love of their life in a country outside EU and return with family; then the wife, and mum for the children, is not automatically eligible for permission to stay, if she originates from a third country, which is not only Asia, but for example also USA. Often these stories in the news are met by angry comments about muslim (economic) refuges and migrants from muslim areas that get immediately support, and shortly after also family reunion.

 

I think the answer to such a question – should Britain (or any homeland) government be responsible for housing and feeding ex-pats returning from Thailand (or 3rd country) – is not that easy as a "yes" or "no".

 

 

Edited October 3, 2017 by khunPer

[thaibeachlovers]

13 minutes ago, Thai Ron said:

 

Far more homegrown scroungers from what I saw during my last visit to Blighty.

Most of the immigrants are working shit jobs and paying the taxes that fund the state pension benefits you're getting right now just as you funded the pensions of those who were retired while you were working.

 

This, of course, is lost on the whinging ingrates who maraud through these forums sniping and grousing about immigrants back home. They don't realise the whole system's one great big Ponzi scheme - they think they're "getting back what they put in" as if NI and tax is some sort of government saving account with their name next to an entry on a ledger.

 

they think they're "getting back what they put in" as if NI and tax is some sort of government saving account with their name next to an entry on a ledger.

 

Which is exactly what is wrong with the whole stupid idiotic way it's done now. It should be related to one putting something in.

What used to rile me about the NHS was that immigrants could bring their elders to the UK and they would be entitled to all the free treatment that they wanted, despite never paying a solitary penny into the UK tax system.

It's just unsustainable given that the elderly population is going to be the largest consumer of taxation within 20 years.

 

I also think it's a travesty that 3 generations of Brits can live in the same house on benefits despite never working a day in their lives. If I could pay my way all the way from the other side of the world and jump through all the bureaucratic hoops to be able to work there, the unemployed up north should be able to make their way to the south where the work is.

[transam]

1 minute ago, Thai Ron said:

 

So what do you base your stupid assertions that immigrants are net scroungers?

Oh let me guess.......what you've read in the Daily Mail??

Did you do a survey on benefit claimants? Nah, didn't think so

At least my conclusions are based on what I saw with my own two eyes last year.

When was the last time you were in the UK?

 

Hey, don't twist words and make false assertions...

 

So with your own eyes you know facts...Where folk come from, local or foreign, paying taxes or not...You are having a laugh...

[thaibeachlovers]

7 minutes ago, khunPer said:

 

 

There are numerous stories in the media from my homeland, about difficulties of returning – including high educated career workers after some years of foreign employment or successful business abroad – especially if they have found the love of their life in a country outside EU and return with family; then the wife, and mum for the children, is not automatically eligible for permission to stay, if she originates from a third country, which is not only Asia, but for example also USA. Often these stories in the news are met by angry comments about muslim (economic) refuges and migrants from muslim areas that get immediately support, and shortly after also family reunion.

 

 

 

 

 

IMO had the mass migration of refugees/ immigrants never occurred, the question would never have come up. Instead of differentiating between citizen and immigrant, as they should, governments are now lumping all in together, which, IMO, is evil.

[Thai Ron]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

Hey, don't twist words and make false assertions...

 

So with your own eyes you know facts...Where folk come from, local or foreign, paying taxes or not...You are having a laugh...

 

I can tell if someone's British or not, Einstein.

Usually by the way they look or the way they speak and, from what I saw, there were a hell of a lot of immigrants working shit jobs in cafes, fast food restaurants, stacking shelves, sweeping roads and cleaning toilets at hospitals. I'm not saying there aren't any immigrants taking the piss but you make out they're all at it like the typical little Englander

 

So come on then, Alf Garnett; when were you last in the UK to see all the scrounging immigrants you've been running you gob about throughout this thread and countless others??

 

 

[sirineou]

Invest very little, but expect high returns, does not sound like a reasonable strategy in life to me.

This is not only a UK problem, I see it in my home country also.

Boohoo, the world is unfair, globalisation, Capitalism, Socialism, anything but me.

Barely graduated high school, spend most of the time after that pleasuring myself, with drugs, alcohol and BS.

Big surprise to me I am not doing well, it must be a (insert your own villain) conspiracy.