webfact Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Midweek rant: Banning smoking on the beaches descends into farce File photo The foreign community moan and moan that the Thais won’t do anything to sort out the problem of trash in Thailand. They blame the Thais for clogging the drains, leaving behind their polystyrene boxes, treating nature and the beaches like a rubbish bin. It’s like nothing so much as a sweet paper has even been dropped in the West. There is of course more than a little truth in all of that. Then along comes a Thai environmentalist – Jatuporn Burutphat – who wants to clear up the beaches. He has done a survey that suggests a major environmental hazard are cigarette butts. He wants to rid Thailand of the scourge. He wants to clean up the place. He doesn’t want all those foreigners complaining that the Thais are doing nothing about being named the sixth worst polluters on the planet. Sure he knows that plastic bottles and stuff thrown out of boats and in coastal drains is important too but he has to start somewhere. He’s being proactive and his efforts, announced yesterday, mean a ban on smoking on 20 beaches is coming into force. All well and good. The trouble is that rather than suggesting that those that break the law will be fined for littering, they will be prosecuted under damage to the environment legislation. This means they could theoretically be jailed or fined 100,000 baht – even both. The Thais know this is never going to happen but the foreigners are not so sure. Cue: a massive Thai bashing festival ensues where some suggest that the move is designed to go after foreigners. Over the top? - perhaps. They suggest that unscrupulous people, like some local authorities, might use the ordnance to extort money from foreign beachgoers. That’s not unreasonable especially if you have seen “tetsakit” officers fining foreigners in Bangkok 2,000 baht for dropping a cigarette butt when they would never have approached a Thai. And in reality what tourist faced with a huge fine would not part with a few thousand just to get back to their hotel. In next to no time the whole issue of filth on the beach has been almost forgotten. Jatuporn and his pals didn’t think it through because they don’t think from a foreigner’s perspective. The foreigners didn’t really get that using the environment law was just a short cut, misguided perhaps, but the Thais meant no harm. Generally, people would be advised not to smoke at first. There would be signs, places to congregate if you fancied a quick drag. Lots of smiles and pointing. Khorp khun khraps and jai yen yens. Like all things in Thailand there would be compromise and leeway before the message got across that smokers really are not wanted on the beaches. But once again we get a mess. Why? Planning. Not enough Thai people – especially those in power - think their actions through. Those actions are often well intended but fall short of effectiveness because of poor planning in their implementation and lack of foresight for the resulting, often negative, consequences. And this is especially true when changes to laws and regulations impact foreigners – both residents and tourists who are visiting Thailand. If you have lived in the kingdom for a while you kind of get what the Thais are aiming at. But I can’t help thinking that some in positions of responsibility need a bit of cultural training when it comes to matters that impact visitors. Thaivisa could have buried the fact of jail time and 100,000 baht fines in the stories just as the Thai press did. But why should they? It’s a fact that those draconian punishments are on the books. Look what happened to the person feeding the fish. It’s sad really. What started off as the good intentions of a man determined to improve things, ends in this. Farce. Rooster -- © Copyright Thai Visa News 2017-10-11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maxpower Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samui Bodoh Posted October 10, 2017 Share Posted October 10, 2017 5 minutes ago, webfact said: That’s not unreasonable especially if you have seen “tetsakit” officers fining foreigners in Bangkok 2,000 baht for dropping a cigarette butt when they would never have approached a Thai. I like the rant and would, normally, agree that things are being handled in a 'Thai' way with no harm done. However, as one who was fined by the "tetsakit" with the assistance of the BIB (many years ago), I am going to need evidence that this is benign. Sorry, the onus is on Thailand to show that this is NOT simply a way to collect money from foreigners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Get Real Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 This is under no circumstances a way to get more money out of the tourists and foreigners. No, it´s a way to get people to stop throw their butts in the sand. I do really hope that most people understand that this is a perfect plan. All in line with global responsibility an the environmenal friendly plan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
everett kendall Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 The fine is too much. Why not have the offenders clean 50 meters of beach.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boon Mee Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 (edited) Far from being a 'perfect' plan, it is an impressive method to keep cigarette butts off the beach which is the goal here. Edited October 11, 2017 by Boon Mee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DoctorG Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 7 minutes ago, everett kendall said: The fine is too much. Why not have the offenders clean 50 meters of beach.... Excellent point EK. Sentenced to maybe 4 hours of litter patrol would do more for the environment, and take away the extortion factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim207 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 What, that long article and you didn't find a way to slip in your customary Trump bashing somewhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darksidedog Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 While cleaning up the beaches is a good idea, wielding potential prison terms and 100,000 Baht fines is totally out of perspective with the offence. When jumping up and down on a womans car is punished with a wai and 500 Baht, this is utterly crazy. Guaranteed there will be people caught who had no idea they were doing anything wrong and those of us who have lived here a while know it is only a matter of time before someone gets slapped with the maximum. 2,000 Baht might be more appropriate, and even then there should be signs in multiple languages every ten metres and not hidden behind trees or bushes. I can hear the screams already if this is used disproportionately on farang rather than local, which to my mind, seems highly likely to be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fforest1 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Boon Mee said: Far from being a 'perfect' it is an impressive method to keep cigarette butt off the beach which is the goal here. O please compared to all the rest of the trash on the beach cigarette butts are hardly a drop in the bucket... Just like farangs getting huge fines for vaping and Thais get a free pass this will be nothing more than another money making farang shakedown with Thais again getting a free pass... The Jet ski shakedown money has been drying-up on Thailand's beaches and a replacement is needed... Edited October 11, 2017 by fforest1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canopus1969 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Don't think the laws go far enough - smokers anywhere should be jailed or fined 100,000 baht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOLDBUGGY Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 45 minutes ago, DoctorG said: Excellent point EK. Sentenced to maybe 4 hours of litter patrol would do more for the environment, and take away the extortion factor. Yeah! What a great idea! Have the person who threw down one cigarette butt, go around for 4 hours picking up empty plastic water bottles, paper wrappers, ice cream sticks, beer bottle caps, and plastic sandwich bags, that everyone else left behind. Seems fare to me to! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emster23 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 "This means they could theoretically be jailed or fined 100,000 baht – even both. The Thais know this is never going to happen but the foreigners are not so sure." If the Thais know this is "never going to happen" then this whole shebang is just another grandstanding show to gain some press time, like most "crackdowns" and other "all bark no bite" schemes those unelected types cook up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikebell Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Yet more tourist gouging. Pattaya police are drooling at the prospect; new BMWs are being ordered. How can they ban smoking on the beach; they've still not managed to stop it in air-conditioned Go-go bars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GOLDBUGGY Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 45 minutes ago, darksidedog said: While cleaning up the beaches is a good idea, wielding potential prison terms and 100,000 Baht fines is totally out of perspective with the offence. When jumping up and down on a womans car is punished with a wai and 500 Baht, this is utterly crazy. Guaranteed there will be people caught who had no idea they were doing anything wrong and those of us who have lived here a while know it is only a matter of time before someone gets slapped with the maximum. 2,000 Baht might be more appropriate, and even then there should be signs in multiple languages every ten metres and not hidden behind trees or bushes. I can hear the screams already if this is used disproportionately on farang rather than local, which to my mind, seems highly likely to be the case. I agree that 2,000 Baht Fine is more reasonable. But why just pick on the smokers? Plastic bottles are not biodegradable either. Why not just a 2,000 Baht Fine for anyone who Litters a Public Beach? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
halloween Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Does anybody really believe that the maximum penalty for damage to the environment would be applied for dropping a butt? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RichardColeman Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Probably find that the fine for killing the man who wanted to arrest you for smoking is less than the fine for smoking ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eliotness Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 2 minutes ago, halloween said: Does anybody really believe that the maximum penalty for damage to the environment would be applied for dropping a butt? You're correct, but I think what concerns people (me included as I'm a smoker) is that this is an open invitation to police and other officials to invent their own penalty, e.g."OK, farang pay 5000 cash, now" and everyone assumes it will go straight in their back pocket. The traffic cops are a fine example of such behaviour. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xaos Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 new way to extort tourists Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud Father Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Heavy Rains, Litter Strewn in a Concrete City, leads to waste washed up on local beaches. Fine people on the beaches and on the streets, Remove the plastic bags from circulation, Kenya did. Do it here and force the 7/11 and market vendors to become responsible. Ban smoking on the beach, Clean up the beach daily, tackle the sewer problem, tackle the cleaning up the sea, those beaches further down the coast that are still pristine won't be for long if there isn't a change in direction, and as far as Bangsaray goes to me it's in the needs immediate attention folder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flynn Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Mountain Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 (edited) If there must be punishment, punish then the people who do not take their littering away, instead of punishing people who just smoke and clean-up. Edited October 11, 2017 by Jack Mountain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farang62 Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Why not just let visitors get on with their holiday with out harassment, they mean no harm, just to be left alone and enjoy their holiday. 99.99 % are this type of tourist why must we make examples of the ass holes who causes a single small problem which is blown out of propitiation so some one can get some points on social media, make it juicy and get a reward even if not true or just stupidity on the part of the visitor. Who suffers in the long run the visitor will get over it even if there are aware of their transgression because no one cares over/done get on with their life. Probably never to grace Thailand shores again, most foreigners are one time visitors on a once in a life time trip. The ones that are on group tours don't spend money at the local level, never seen, controlled and taken care of by the few "the Tour goop" never see these "tour group" people out and about, so our local merchants, restaurants, don't get any business from these "Controlled People" . Our local economy, businesses, local people are suffering from this type of tourism. We never see them, only hear they are here!! Take a look at how many local businesses have closed just in the Natorn, Lipa-noi area. No one seems to care, shops don't stock many items or restock because of the lack of customers improving their shops or adding things. So just who is benefiting from the "Tourist Boom" surly not the people on Samui. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hobobo Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 1 hour ago, everett kendall said: The fine is too much. Why not have the offenders clean 50 meters of beach.... You mean after they complete their one year prison sentence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Proud Father Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 20 minutes ago, halloween said: Does anybody really believe that the maximum penalty for damage to the environment would be applied for dropping a butt? Ask the Russian Lady in Phuket with a slice of bread in the ocean. I am a smoker but won't even dare to light up near there as I sure as hell don't want the umbrella corporation, jet ski scammers, or taxi mafia deciding if they deserve a handout that day. What a horrible day that would be surviving the shakedown... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eliotness Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Is the ban on actual smoking or is it for discarding butts. If a smoker discards his responsibily then the quoted environmental problem hasn't been createdl, surely !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alant Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 In no way is this misjudged, the legislation is sound. To admit it was perhaps published without full consideration of how it may be seen would be unthinkable, aka a loss of face. That simply does not happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joecoolfrog Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 1 hour ago, canopus1969 said: Don't think the laws go far enough - smokers anywhere should be jailed or fined 100,000 baht And then shot ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
owl sees all Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 Just stop people going onto the beaches! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LannaGuy Posted October 11, 2017 Share Posted October 11, 2017 1 hour ago, halloween said: Does anybody really believe that the maximum penalty for damage to the environment would be applied for dropping a butt? My dear Halloween one would hope you would not drop your derriere anywhere... a most unwelcome sight! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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