SURVEY: Brexit -- Good or Bad Idea?

[dick dasterdly]

25 minutes ago, LaoPo said:

 

I know The Guardian is leftish but I'm sure you can hand me some other (right) news sources proving Putin has NOT influenced the LEAVE CAMPAIGN and/or the US elections...?

 

I'm eager to learn  

Somehow I knew that 'reds under the bed' would eventually appear as part of the discussion.....

 

Where is McCarthy when you need him??  

[LaoPo]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

Somehow I knew that 'reds under the bed' would eventually appear as part of the discussion.....

 

Where is McCarthy when you need him??  

 

 

Hahahahaha...Me RED? that's the funniest thing I've heard in a long time...hahahahaha...me RED? 

A capitalist, being Red.... 

 

You mean like Putin:?

 

"But according to Hermitage Capital Management CEO Bill Browder, they’re nothing compared to Russian President Vladimir Putin, whose personal fortune Browder “believes” to be $200 billion." 

 

From: http://fortune.com/2017/07/29/vladimir-putin-russia-jeff-bezos-bill-gates-worlds-richest-man/

 

 

[Grouse]

4 hours ago, rufanuf said:

Sorry, but theres opinions and then there's just the rules of nature. "We need immigration for our economy". No we don't. What's needed is for the mass population to get educated and realise that just because someone in government came up with the idea of using a term "GDP" that we should all use to measure our standard of living, makes it so. It doesn't. Its actually this obssession with such figures that's led the UK into the mess it's in. Over populated, socially divided, over taxed, and going knowehere either in or out of the EU, as most of the damage is historic.

 

Politicians with there relentless appetite for power know that if they can generate tax, they can win votes. That in know way means it's good for the existing population of a nation. On the contrary, it means the gradual dismantling of society as a result of stupid people in power thinking they can measure quality of life issues using a simple bit of maths.

We're not over taxed; we're wrongly taxed.

[Grouse]

51 minutes ago, LaoPo said:

 

Most Brits on this forum are pro BREXIT LEAVE I suppose  

Is that a double negative?

[KiChakayan]

To put in in nutshell: it is great it happened at last,  as UK has been a troublemaker within the community for 30 years. Now, UK will go through some rough patches and rebound to become in a few years time new valuable trading partner for the EU. EU has to sort out its own problems, but will have a much better chance to succeed with less dissent inside. 

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, rufanuf said:

What your saying is also a "truism"...but what's also true is that big government has throughout history proven to be a mistake that's often led to war. The idea that prosperity has generally increased. I am not sure is a truism, as relative poverty has probably never been worse in all of man kinds history. For those at the top they can plan on owning their Islands and flying into space for a holiday. For those at the bottom it's "same as it ever was". A fight for survival.

Yes

 

As I keep saying, inequality is the real issue; look at the gini coefficients. We should be more like Northern Europe and less like America. We'll be in gated "communities" with  semEYE automatics soon...

[LaoPo]

23 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Is that a double negative?

 

Why would a fact be negative? If it's not, I stand corrected.

 

 I'm an EU citizen but I have quite a few friends in the UK and they understand that I'm from the EU and haven't banned me from their friends' list...yet 

[LaoPo]

22 minutes ago, KiChakayan said:

To put in in nutshell: it is great it happened at last,  as UK has been a troublemaker within the community for 30 years. Now, UK will go through some rough patches and rebound to become in a few years time new valuable trading partner for the EU. EU has to sort out its own problems, but will have a much better chance to succeed with less dissent inside. 

 

Maybe the Tories should sort out THEIR own problems first, to begin with.. ?

I have the impression that the Tories ARE the problem, dealing with the EU about Brexit...

[KiChakayan]

2 minutes ago, LaoPo said:

 

Maybe the Tories should sort out THEIR own problems first, to begin with.. ?

I have the impression that the Tories ARE the problem, dealing with the EU about Brexit...

It all started with Maggie. But the Lady did good for her country, didn't she. I mean look at UK before and after her.

[LaoPo]

7 minutes ago, KiChakayan said:

It all started with Maggie. But the Lady did good for her country, didn't she. I mean look at UK before and after her.

 

The Iron Lady served last in 1990....that's 27,5 years ago and she was PM for some 15 years.

[KiChakayan]

51.64% - 2.3% = 49.34%

[nauseus]

2 hours ago, LaoPo said:

 

The Iron Lady served last in 1990....that's 27,5 years ago and she was PM for some 15 years.

12 years for others!

[adammike]

3 hours ago, LaoPo said:

 

Maybe the Tories should sort out THEIR own problems first, to begin with.. ?

I have the impression that the Tories ARE the problem, dealing with the EU about Brexit...

this should be pinned to every post on this discussion .the Tories are the problem end of.

[nauseus]

Just now, adammike said:

this should be pinned to every post on this discussion .the Tories are the problem end of.

Or blame it on Rio?

[Jip99]

4 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Or blame it on Rio?

 

 

I blame it on the Boogie.......

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, LaoPo said:

 

Why would a fact be negative? If it's not, I stand corrected.

 

 I'm an EU citizen but I have quite a few friends in the UK and they understand that I'm from the EU and haven't banned me from their friends' list...yet 

Sorry, I didn't realise English was not your first language.

 

My comment was intended as a witticism. A double negative is an English grammatical point. My joke was that Brexit is negative and leaving is negative. Funny? Thought not.

 

Anyway, I'm very pro Europe and a remainer. I have lived and worked in Denmark and Germany and my sister lives in Aragon. I speak several languages badly!

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, KiChakayan said:

It all started with Maggie. But the Lady did good for her country, didn't she. I mean look at UK before and after her.

I'm from Yorkshire

 

She destroyed British society

 

She lost our North Sea oil bonanza paying unemployment benefits

 

She was in charge while manufacturing industry fell from 27% of GDP to 10%

 

No she didn't do a good job for the average Brit.

[rufanuf]

4 hours ago, LaoPo said:

 

"No we don't" ?

 

Maybe you can enlighten me WHO's going to do the UK's dirty work, the work of the health care nurses, the Polish construction builder and so on?

Maybe you have forgotten about the fast ageing UK and EU population and there will be no other way than immigration to solve this huge problem in the next few decades.

""

More than 100,000 EU citizens left Britain in the three months after the EU referendum, new figures showed this week.

New worker registrations from Poland are down 16 per cent year on year, Hungary down 14 per cent, and Slovakia down 20 per cent.""

 

From: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-latest-news-uk-businesses-recruitment-crisis-polish-workers-return-home-immigration-eu-a7596956.html

Another delusional "expert" citing the work of "experts" LMAO

[rufanuf]

5 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

Easily available public health statistics alone would show your assertions to be nonsense.

Ahhh yes...published by? Answers on a postcard please? Wouldn't be governmental organisations at all would it? Keep up the steady diet of public facts and figures and ignore the facts on the ground. Most do.

[nauseus]

49 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I'm from Yorkshire

 

She destroyed British society

 

She lost our North Sea oil bonanza paying unemployment benefits

 

She was in charge while manufacturing industry fell from 27% of GDP to 10%

 

No she didn't do a good job for the average Brit.

For the 'average Brits', no she didn't do a good job. But a lot of 'average Brits' were guilty of jumping on the preceding temporary trade union era of misguided power, unchecked by weak Labour governments. I knew heaps of guys that were clocked into work 5 days a week but were in the pub for 2 or 3 of them - regularly - and they had plenty of money to spend then. This kind of fraud helped to send a lot of British heavy industry into a death spiral before Thatcher got in, in 1979. I always agreed with the principle of unions but the rackets in the 70's eventually led to their demise. Of course by the early 80's most of the people I mentioned were out of a job and spending the North Sea dosh instead (still down the pub of course).  

[rufanuf]

4 hours ago, LaoPo said:

 

"No we don't" ?

 

Maybe you can enlighten me WHO's going to do the UK's dirty work, the work of the health care nurses, the Polish construction builder and so on?

Maybe you have forgotten about the fast ageing UK and EU population and there will be no other way than immigration to solve this huge problem in the next few decades.

""

More than 100,000 EU citizens left Britain in the three months after the EU referendum, new figures showed this week.

New worker registrations from Poland are down 16 per cent year on year, Hungary down 14 per cent, and Slovakia down 20 per cent.""

 

From: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/brexit-latest-news-uk-businesses-recruitment-crisis-polish-workers-return-home-immigration-eu-a7596956.html

I think most people would agree there are already too many humans on the planet. So how can importing more into the most populated areas be a good thing? Don't think the government has quite got to grips with the basics yet do you? Probably too focused on GDP !

[rufanuf]

43 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I'm from Yorkshire

 

She destroyed British society

 

She lost our North Sea oil bonanza paying unemployment benefits

 

She was in charge while manufacturing industry fell from 27% of GDP to 10%

 

No she didn't do a good job for the average Brit.

I was a below average Brit. (If your talking economic circumstance) she did fine by me thanks.

[nauseus]

14 minutes ago, rufanuf said:

I think most people would agree there are already too many humans on the planet. So how can importing more into the most populated areas be a good thing? Don't think the government has quite got to grips with the basics yet do you? Probably too focused on GDP !

Absolutely! 

[LaoPo]

2 hours ago, Grouse said:

Sorry, I didn't realise English was not your first language.

 

My comment was intended as a witticism. A double negative is an English grammatical point. My joke was that Brexit is negative and leaving is negative. Funny? Thought not.

 

Anyway, I'm very pro Europe and a remainer. I have lived and worked in Denmark and Germany and my sister lives in Aragon. I speak several languages badly!

 OK, misunderstood  Thanks for explaining.

[LaoPo]

2 hours ago, rufanuf said:

Another delusional "expert" citing the work of "experts" LMAO

 

You know, it's no problem if you criticise me or the opinion of others writing about facts, since the exodus of specialised nurses and construction people is a fact and it remains to be seen if Brits are able to fill the gaps.

 

The problem is that you don't come up with facts, proving the opposite.

 

 

[LaoPo]

2 hours ago, rufanuf said:

I think most people would agree there are already too many humans on the planet. So how can importing more into the most populated areas be a good thing? Don't think the government has quite got to grips with the basics yet do you? Probably too focused on GDP !

 

I'm interested to hear from you WHOs going to do the British dirty jobs, WHO's ging to take care of your patients in hospitals, ...and WHO's going to do building and construction in the UK when all mainlanders and other "imported" workers are gone...any input instead talking nonsense ?

 

Well, my questions are of course kind rhetorical questions since I don't expect any answers from someone who's short sighted about the real situation Britain is going to end up with.

[ilostmypassword]

50 minutes ago, LaoPo said:

 

I'm interested to hear from you WHOs going to do the British dirty jobs, WHO's ging to take care of your patients in hospitals, ...and WHO's going to do building and construction in the UK when all mainlanders and other "imported" workers are gone...any input instead talking nonsense ?

 

Well, my questions are of course kind rhetorical questions since I don't expect any answers from someone who's short sighted about the real situation Britain is going to end up with.

Well, if there's a demand for workers and the labor forces chooses not to work for the going rate, then the rate will go up. Certain jobs like taking care of patients in hospitals or construction work can't be exported. That does mean costs will be passed along to British consumers but how much costs are raised depends on the cost of the labor contribution in relation to the total cost of the goods or services.

[LaoPo]

2 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

Well, if there's a demand for workers and the labor forces chooses not to work for the going rate, then the rate will go up. Certain jobs like taking care of patients in hospitals or construction work can't be exported. That does mean costs will be passed along to British consumers but how much costs are raised depends on the cost of the labor contribution in relation to the total cost of the goods or services.

 

You're not answering the questions.

There IS already a shortage in all kinds of jobs and especially also in healthcare.

 

European nurses and midwifes are leaving the UK*

"The NHS is already short of an estimated 40,000 nurses across the UK and 3,500 midwives in England alone."

 

I think the shortage is much larger than published.

As an example: there's a dramatic shortage of 125.000 nurses in The Netherlands and that's a small country in comparison with the UK wth some 17 million citizens versus 65 million for the UK.

 

If this is going on, the UK will face dramatic shortages of staff in all kinds of professions.

 

* https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/nov/02/european-nurses-midwives-leaving-uk-nhs-brexit-vote?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=Brexit+briefing+2016&utm_term=251214&subid=19374309&CMP=ema-3239

[dundee48]

21 minutes ago, LaoPo said:

 

You're not answering the questions.

There IS already a shortage in all kinds of jobs and especially also in healthcare.

 

European nurses and midwifes are leaving the UK*

"The NHS is already short of an estimated 40,000 nurses across the UK and 3,500 midwives in England alone."

 

I think the shortage is much larger than published.

As an example: there's a dramatic shortage of 125.000 nurses in The Netherlands and that's a small country in comparison with the UK wth some 17 million citizens versus 65 million for the UK.

 

If this is going on, the UK will face dramatic shortages of staff in all kinds of professions.

 

* https://www.theguardian.com/society/2017/nov/02/european-nurses-midwives-leaving-uk-nhs-brexit-vote?utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&utm_campaign=Brexit+briefing+2016&utm_term=251214&subid=19374309&CMP=ema-3239

(I think the shortage is much larger than published )Based on what?Your crystal ball,amazing how remoaners always try to exaggerate things when it suits and downplay when it doesn`t.Even the Guardian doesn`t claim that.

 

The Netherlands having a dramatic shortage of 125,000 nurses does not help your argument re Brexit.

 

The Gaurdian again=hahahahaha.

[LaoPo]

7 minutes ago, dundee48 said:

(I think the shortage is much larger than published )Based on what?Your crystal ball,amazing how remoaners always try to exaggerate things when it suits and downplay when it doesn`t.Even the Guardian doesn`t claim that.

 

The Netherlands having a dramatic shortage of 125,000 nurses does not help your argument re Brexit.

 

The Gaurdian again=hahahahaha.

 

What a simple answer; you never come up with better arguments, just denying the input of others or their sources.

 

You don't even take the time to search for yourself; you just give cheap answers that the reports from others are bull...

 

Is this better and acceptable for you? If not, you'd better come up with facts instead of cheap Charlie answers.

 

More than 86,000 NHS posts vacant, says report

Source: http://www.bbc.com/news/health-40715955

 

Worst nurse shortage ever as NHS exodus leads to fears for patient safety with record 40,000 vacancies unfilled

Source: http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/worst-nurse-shortage-ever-nhs-11118667

 

There are SO many news sources, writing about the shortages of nurses and other jobs that I could go on.

But you deny everything but don't come up with anything yourself.

 

You're too lazy....