Lifan GY200 ------> Honda CRF250L

[AllanB]

In am about to upgrade from cheap Chinese 48k baht dirt-bike to similar Honda at 130k baht, as in a few days I collect my new CRF250L.

 

This new bike has a lot to live up to, as the Lifan has been a lot of fun for not much money and the only reason for the change is the 2 up issue. The Lifan struggles with 2 people with luggage and if I am honest the gearbox is just a little agricultural, specifically getting neutral at times. That said the engine is so flexible, it pulls in almost any gear when riding solo.

 

One of my previous bikes was a Phantom, also with 200ccs, but you were changing gear all the bloody time and whoa betide you if you chose wrong doh! I can turn a corner in the Lifan and drop only one gear and pull away easily, with bags of low down torque, from the simple side cam engine.

 

The specs say the CRF has a lot more bhp and torque, so we shall see when we make a trip up to Loie province, up a famous long twisty I know. My mate from Utraddit rides a Forza and we plan to meet up there, with our wives, for a mountain tour on our very different bikes.

 

I am not getting any younger and want to do this while I can still get my leg over.....

[chrissables]

Hi, where is the "long twisty" you know?

[AllanB]

1 hour ago, chrissables said:

Hi, where is the "long twisty" you know?

Can someone help me out here, it is quite a while since I did this road and I know the turnings by sight? But from memory.....

 

Starting on the road from Phu Ruea to Loei there is a southbound road (2003 I think) which goes down to Chum Pae, but before it gets there it joins the main 201, running from Loei to Chum Pae at Wang Saphung. It was a nice mountain road free of any potholes, though that was a couple of years back.

 

It is a fairly major road and we found it when we were on the Phantom, not wishing to revisit Loie on our way back from Phu Ruea to Khon Kaen. This was mostly down hill and we managed to find it again when we were the Honda Shadow 400 and did the up-hill leg which was really great. I remember we found the turning off the 201 quite hard to find, which was right in the centre of town of Wang Saphung.  

 

Hope someone else can confirm that account.

[chrissables]

 

The 203 goes from Phu reua to Loei. A right turn there is 201 that goes to Chum Phae via Wang Saphung. 

 

My map is old and shows road 2140 going west from Wang Saphung, maybe it's that road.

 

I shall look next time i am up that way.

[CMKiwi]

Hey Allan,

 

  I see on baht sold a guy is selling an August 2017 CRF250 Rally for just 130,000 baht.  Thats a bit of a bargain in my books but I do remember you saying that its a bit higher than the 250L.

 

  Maybe just a bit too far to swing your leg over huh?

 

  I hear what youre saying re agricultural gearboxes.  I have a POS Platinum 175 and the box aint too pretty...matches the rest of the bike really but at only 10k its a hack about.  Just gotta get a new carby for it, want to replace the POS chinese one thats currently off it more than it is on it!

 

  Hope you have a good trip on your new bike.....and your bum dont go to sleep on that horrible narrow plank that Honda call a seat.  I added more padding to the one I had and put a new cover on, huge difference in comfort levels.

[AllanB]

2 hours ago, chrissables said:

 

The 203 goes from Phu reua to Loei. A right turn there is 201 that goes to Chum Phae via Wang Saphung. 

 

My map is old and shows road 2140 going west from Wang Saphung, maybe it's that road.

 

I shall look next time i am up that way.

The 203 rings a bell, does it show a lot of bends, sorry but I can't be exact. But my wife is pretty sure it starts in Wang Suphung.

[AllanB]

1 hour ago, CMKiwi said:

Hey Allan,

 

  I see on baht sold a guy is selling an August 2017 CRF250 Rally for just 130,000 baht.  Thats a bit of a bargain in my books but I do remember you saying that its a bit higher than the 250L.

 

  Maybe just a bit too far to swing your leg over huh?

 

  I hear what youre saying re agricultural gearboxes.  I have a POS Platinum 175 and the box aint too pretty...matches the rest of the bike really but at only 10k its a hack about.  Just gotta get a new carby for it, want to replace the POS chinese one thats currently off it more than it is on it!

 

  Hope you have a good trip on your new bike.....and your bum dont go to sleep on that horrible narrow plank that Honda call a seat.  I added more padding to the one I had and put a new cover on, huge difference in comfort levels.

A Khon Kaen dealer sold a Rally just last week, maybe that was it, but happy with a new bike.

 

The Lifan is a great bike, just that the gearbox was a bit stiff getting to neutral, solved it by adding a simple heel plate. Changed the wheel bearings and chain when I first bought the bike, thought they may be poor quality, didn't cost much. We did the saddle on that too, to be honest the original cover was very thin, so didn't worry about replacing it.

 

I plan on putting a sheepskin cover on the seat, I always find bike seats uncomfortable, this new model seems to be soft than an old one i tried, maybe a mod??

[chrissables]

10 hours ago, AllanB said:

The 203 rings a bell, does it show a lot of bends, sorry but I can't be exact. But my wife is pretty sure it starts in Wang Suphung.

The 2140 go to Phu Luang, it does show bends, but on my old map it just show an minor road continuing up tp tp Phu Sawo on the 203. From Phu Sawo to Loei back on the 203 is about 30km

[AllanB]

12 hours ago, chrissables said:

The 2140 go to Phu Luang, it does show bends, but on my old map it just show an minor road continuing up tp tp Phu Sawo on the 203. From Phu Sawo to Loei back on the 203 is about 30km

If you put Wang Suphung to Phu Luang into Googlemaps it should show this 2004 road north-west out of Wang Suphang.

 

I think that is it. Wang Suphang is set off west from the main 201 and I do remember that.

[papa al]

On 10/15/2017 at 8:25 PM, AllanB said:

A Khon Kaen dealer sold a Rally just last week, maybe that was it, but happy with a new bike.

 

The Lifan is a great bike, just that the gearbox was a bit stiff getting to neutral, solved it by adding a simple heel plate. Changed the wheel bearings and chain when I first bought the bike, thought they may be poor quality, didn't cost much. We did the saddle on that too, to be honest the original cover was very thin, so didn't worry about replacing it.

 

I plan on putting a sheepskin cover on the seat, I always find bike seats uncomfortable, this new model seems to be soft than an old one i tried, maybe a mod??

....mesh seat-cover Grasshopper....

Edited October 17, 2017 by papa al

[CMKiwi]

Yes Im hooked on those mesh seat covers as well, they are great in the warmer months and ensure you dont get that dreaded seat burn from hot vinyl when wearing shorts.

 

Im also surprised at how inexpensive they are....Sangchai Panich in Chiang Mai sell them for around 130 baht. About 3 different colours and 4 sizes. They affix with velcro tabs but I generally cable tie them on as those tabs arent always sewn on that well.

 

I see the 2017 CRF Rally is still for sale on Baht Sold...only 1550km on the clock. Its located in Chaiyaphum

(North East, Issan and region).  Good buying at 130k baht.  Private owner not a dealer.  Damn I miss my CRF... but want something bigger!

 

 

[AllanB]

4 minutes ago, CMKiwi said:

Yes Im hooked on those mesh seat covers as well, they are great in the warmer months and ensure you dont get that dreaded seat burn from hot vinyl when wearing shorts.

 

Im also surprised at how inexpensive they are....Sangchai Panich in Chiang Mai sell them for around 130 baht. About 3 different colours and 4 sizes. They affix with velcro tabs but I generally cable tie them on as those tabs arent always sewn on that well.

 

I see the 2017 CRF Rally is still for sale on Baht Sold...only 1550km on the clock. Its located in Chaiyaphum

(North East, Issan and region).  Good buying at 130k baht.  Private owner not a dealer.  Damn I miss my CRF... but want something bigger!

 

 

I have a couple of mesh seat covers, agree they work well, they just about fit my Lifan will try on on the Honda when I get it. You can only get black here, what colours have you seen?

 

Still waiting to hear something bad about the CRF, which is great, yes I could do with a bigger bike with a bit more room for two, but need to get it on my 4 door Isuzu.

[CMKiwi]

Mesh seat covers in red, black, blue and sometimes green!  But I haven't seen the green ones for a while.

 

The red looks ok on the CRF actually. And at least a large size is required...xl is preferable. 

Edited October 17, 2017 by CMKiwi
Additional info

[AllanB]

Picked up the Crf this morning and rode it back............last night I rode the Lifan back from the pub and thought what a real fun bike.

 

So far I have to realise the CRF is branspank new and if I am honest the Lifan was a bit of shitter when I collected it and rode it back. But after putting in 95 octane, a clutch adjustment, tightening up a few bolts and bedding in, the little cheap bike came into it's own. I upgraded chain and wheel bearings to be on the safe side and that just left two up riding as the outstanding issue. The reason for the change

 

So I need to give the CRF a chance, the power/speed is there, just hope the wide-band torque I get from the LIfan. comes with bedding in.

 

I can see I am going to make a lot of msitakes with the new gear pattern I have to learn..."Old dog, new tricks"

 

Now to work on fitting luggage, my tank bag fits, so that's a start.

[taninthai]

if your only reason for changing from the lifan to crf is for comfortability of two up riding you are going to be disappointed,,,,i

have mentioned many times the crf is not comfortable 2 up at all....i think you obviously really wanted a lt more of a quality bike than the lifan and in that respect you made a good choice

good luck

[AllanB]

9 hours ago, taninthai said:

if your only reason for changing from the lifan to crf is for comfortability of two up riding you are going to be disappointed,,,,i

have mentioned many times the crf is not comfortable 2 up at all....i think you obviously really wanted a lt more of a quality bike than the lifan and in that respect you made a good choice

good luck

Any bike that I can load on my 4 door Isuzu is going to be a compromise, when it was new the Lifan has the same size seat as the CRF, But during the upgrade added about 2cm, which made a difference for the missus, so not an issue. The Lifan feels like a strong bike, not a piece of junk at all, old technology perhaps, but that side cam engine is great, just needs a few more ccs for 2up riding.

 

So far the gearbox is better on the CRF, the engine a lot more flexible on the Lifan. The straight line speed on the CRF, MUCH better, the Lifan on the highway struggled to do 80kph, we did 80 2 ups around the ring road with a lot more left, but running in. Hi-ish rpm acceleration present on CRF, missing on GY.

 

I am pretty certain that once I have a 1,000km on the clock the engine will do the job, I have the stretchy seat cover on the CRF and will try a gel saddle cover for the Mrs. The Lifan needed a new seat cover, so the mod there was justified.

 

Going to try a bit of offroading (not Dakar stuff) today, the Lifan was a peach even two up.

 

Finally, the CRF attracts a lot of attention with the Thais, just like the Vespa did in Europe....Still waiting for the alarms I ordered. 

[AllanB]

I have a question for all you CRF owners out there, was your bike smooth from day 1? Mine isn't and I am wondering if there is something wrong.

 

It won't pull very well below 3000rpm and has a rough spot around 4500rpm, yes mine has a tacho.

 

Cheers

[chrissables]

The Rally got a lot smoother after the first 1000 km, i have read this on a few forums too. 

[AllanB]

16 minutes ago, chrissables said:

The Rally got a lot smoother after the first 1000 km, i have read this on a few forums too. 

That's good news. I rode a CBR250 a few years ago and it was very smooth, little low down torque but powerful high up in the revs.

[ktm jeff]

The bike should pull from 1500 rpm , and strongly at 3000. Shouldnt be any rough spots. ( Your not talking about vibration i guess ). Is there some sort of restrictor in place , air filter in correctly , or old/bad fuel ?. Cant be valve clearances unless wrongly set at the factory. Most of the running in is done in the first 500 KM , but it will get smoother still.

[CMKiwi]

I remember the first CRF I rode was a rental from Pops in Chiang Mai.  I did a visa run up to Mae Sai and boy those vibrations were a killer.  Every hour I had to get off the bike and have a bit of a walk about.  I felt nothing below the waist and had to check that the boys were still there!

 

Not sure what the cause was but when I bought my CRF250M, an after market pipe and muffler, plus an EJK and Pirelli road tyres together with additional padding on the seat seemed to sort that out.

 

Never really had any problem with rough spots as such.  I did have a problem with the fuel filler cover though.  I pulled into a service station to fill up and the cover just fell off and onto the ground.  This was only 2 weeks old.  Initially the Honda place tried to say it was my fault!  I told the technician to look at the colour of the break.  It was a dull grey not a shiny metallic colour. Obviously faulty/oxidized metal/alloy.

 

They replaced all locks (Ignition/Filler cap/toolbox) at no cost.

 

Thing with new bikes...initially you think they are really good.  Then as time goes on you begin to hear things. What was that? Where did that squeek come from?  Is that a worn bearing? The gears seem a bit noisy today.....  I think a lot of it is imagination.  Unless of course its a really cheap piece of Chinese rubbish. 

 

But then they too are Slowly getting better, really slowly at that!  Some of their bikes look quite good, until you take a closer look.  Quality is not yet to their forefront but give it time.

 

[ktm jeff]

I also tried a Honda CRF from POPS , sadly he died recently , but it lacked the adjustable suspension and toughness of the Kawasaki KLX , which i then went out and bought. The Honda was also a lot  heavier too.Vibration is one thing , but lack of power and roughness !. Something not right there. Sure , these 250 singles vibrate but the KLX isnt bad , and the Platinum ( The cheap Chinese / Thai type of  bikes you refer ) has a balancer shaft. 1200 rpm up to 10,000 rpm in top gear , no problem.Nearly 6 years old , used off-road all around Chiang Mai. Battery went last year !. Yes , i changed the seat.

[canthai55]

7 hours ago, CMKiwi said:

 I did a visa run up to Mae Sai and boy those vibrations were a killer.  

Mine is fine. No issues

[AllanB]

The vibration is at a narrow rpm band. Trying to accelerate below 3000 rpm feels really bad, as though the engine is labouring, not good when running-in so I change down to get the revs up to 4000 where it feels right.

 

I haven't done 100km yet so need to give it a chance, but two other Jap bikes I bought new, a Honda Wave and Yam Filano and also the Vespa were good straight out of the box, just needed some kms to get up to full power.

 

As I have said the Lifan was horrible when I picked it up, but that engine is a peach now, pulls from almost tickover, thought it was a Chinese thing, or perhaps the old technology used.

 

[thaiguzzi]

4 hours ago, AllanB said:

The vibration is at a narrow rpm band. Trying to accelerate below 3000 rpm feels really bad, as though the engine is labouring, not good when running-in so I change down to get the revs up to 4000 where it feels right.

 

I haven't done 100km yet so need to give it a chance, but two other Jap bikes I bought new, a Honda Wave and Yam Filano and also the Vespa were good straight out of the box, just needed some kms to get up to full power.

 

As I have said the Lifan was horrible when I picked it up, but that engine is a peach now, pulls from almost tickover, thought it was a Chinese thing, or perhaps the old technology used.

 

What? The "side cam" technology.....

[AllanB]

7 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

What? The "side cam" technology.....

Er....It has the camshaft at the "side" of the engine....rather than on the top of the engine. I think we have been here before.

 

At this very moment I would love to go back to those days......200km in this Honda CRF engine is pure dogshit......

[CMKiwi]

Sorry to hear that....

[taninthai]

my crf sounds terrible sort of sounds like its running really dry,but i think that is just the sound of a single cylinder low hp bike, it doesn't give me any problems engine wise.

id bet the not pulling (bogging down)under 3,000rpm is more a combination of new bike ,wrong gear selection  and riding what is called  only 1/4 throttle, have it in a lower gear and don't be scared to rev it,,but at he end of the day it is only a 250 so can't expect supersonic acceleration especially if two up,,,change to 2 or 3 teeth more on the rear sprocket will also help.

Edited October 26, 2017 by taninthai

[AllanB]

5 hours ago, taninthai said:

my crf sounds terrible sort of sounds like its running really dry,but i think that is just the sound of a single cylinder low hp bike, it doesn't give me any problems engine wise.

id bet the not pulling (bogging down)under 3,000rpm is more a combination of new bike ,wrong gear selection  and riding what is called  only 1/4 throttle, have it in a lower gear and don't be scared to rev it,,but at he end of the day it is only a 250 so can't expect supersonic acceleration especially if two up,,,change to 2 or 3 teeth more on the rear sprocket will also help.

Ouch! Sounding "terrible" is not good news and that is how I would sum mine up, and yes "running dry". This thread was about a comparison and the engine on the 48k baht Lifan sounds great, just as I would expect and pulls in almost any gear from 1000rpm (est). The Lifan is only 200cc, with, on paper, 60% of the power of the CRF, so I thought I knew what to expect.

 

I was just in the throws of returning it to the dealership this morning and was worried they would take it apart and make it worse, like the jeweller did with my new Seiko watch, when they fixed it with Superglue.

 

I have to say I am gutted with disappointment and wished I heard these stories a few weeks ago. To me biking is about fun and right now this bike is anything but fun.

 

I think people are extremely reticent to criticise Japanese stuff on these forums, in fear of ridicule and at the same time feel it necessary to slag off anything Chinese, to demonstrate their "expertise". I prefer to call a spade a spade. 

 

Not sure I can live with this, it is truly a depressing bike to ride....................but hope this is a lesson to anyone else thinking of buying a CRF250.

 

Maybe this a reason they fit these noisy exhausts, to mask the sound of the engine? 

[CMKiwi]

Thats really strange Allan. I never had engine problems with my CRF apart from vibrations in a certain rev range.  Otherwise it was a good bike within its engine size and price range.

 

So is your disappointment more to do with a lack of low down torque rather than poor construction? I agree re adding a few teeth to the rear sprocket, it will aid your take off.

 

Maybe some aftermarket mods can sort out your problems, although you would probably think it should be good right from the get go.

 

Its early days yet, give it a bit of time.  All bikes sound different and have different capabilities even those of the same make/model.  I hope you have got one that was built on a Friday (An old saying from NZ that use to refer to poorly constructed vehicles....every worker was looking forward to the weekend so didnt give the job at hand 100%).

Edited October 27, 2017 by CMKiwi