55 minutes ago, BritTim said:

The 180-day "rule" has been widely cited. I actually think immigration likely receives an alert when you enter Thailand having been in the country for more than 180 days on tourist entries (similar to the alert for 6+ visa exempt entries). However, many, many people spend more than 180 days a year in Thailand on tourist entries with only a handful ever denied entry (usually when trying to enter visa exempt and suspected of illegal working).

There is no confirmed case of such alert, unlike the 6 VE alert, where there have been reports.

 

By Aug 7, I accumulated 204 days, reentered twice since then, by now it's about 242 days.

 

I did not feel they were scrutinizing the passport more than usual.

 

 

Edited October 28, 20178 yr by lkv

3 hours ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

Well actually the 180 Days is not an "unwritten rule". It applies to Residency.

 

If you Reside in Thailand for 180 Days or more, you are considered a Resident of Thailand for Income Tax purposes, and would be subject to pay full Income Taxes on all money earned in, but also out of, Thailand. I know many will disagree with this statement but all I can say is look it up yourself.

 

So it stands to reason that you cannot be a Resident of a country by only holding a Tourist Visa. Perhaps why you were told about the 180 Day Rule to begin with.

 

The immigration law that used to specify a limit on tourist visas per year (or rather days in Thailand per year) was amended in 2008 and the wording about limitations was removed.  Since then it has been possible to visit Thailand as often as you want on tourist visas.

Any mention of resident for tax purposes is irrelevant as a tourist doesn't work here.

 

24 minutes ago, seancbk said:

The immigration law that used to specify a limit on tourist visas per year (or rather days in Thailand per year) was amended in 2008 and the wording about limitations was removed.  Since then it has been possible to visit Thailand as often as you want on tourist visas.

Any mention of resident for tax purposes is irrelevant as a tourist doesn't work here.

The limit you refer to only ever applied to Visa-Exempt entries.  There has never been a limit on entries with a valid Tourist Visa.

 

The tax-laws do apply to overseas-incomes of those in Thailand over 180 days/yr - but only if that income is transferred to Thailand in the same year in which it is earned.  The best way to stay clear of the tax-issue, is to transfer money to Thailand earned from previous tax-years - which comes down to having at least one-year's worth of living expenses in savings.

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

The limit you refer to only ever applied to Visa-Exempt entries.  There has never been a limit on entries with a valid Tourist Visa.

 

The tax-laws do apply to overseas-incomes of those in Thailand over 180 days/yr - but only if that income is transferred to Thailand in the same year in which it is earned.  The best way to stay clear of the tax-issue, is to transfer money to Thailand earned from previous tax-years - which comes down to having at least one-year's worth of living expenses in savings.

I actually expected many post such as this. That is because if it is not actively enforced it therefore does not exist. That Thailand is different than my own country. Is it?

 

When you are deemed a "Resident", in your own country, or any other, you are subject to full taxation, unless your country offers tax breaks to certain people, and regardless of where you earn this money. Most people are accustomed to earning a wage in there country, paying taxes there, and end of story.

 

But most of the people I know and work with, earn there money Off-shore and not in there own country. They tried to hide this money with Off-shore Bank Accounts, which had some success at first. But with stricter and more enforced tax laws, these Bank Account were found out, and they were forced to pay there taxes.

 

In the UK, you are only allowed 90 Days in your own county, or less, before you are considered a Non-Resident. Which is the opposite to being a Resident. So they are not subject to Income Taxes. But staying longer and you are subject to full Income Taxes on World Wide Income.

 

In the USA, who perhaps had the best laws at first, are now subject to Income Taxes no matter how long they stay in there own country or where this money comes from,. But they do get some tax breaks on this money. The Netherlands still goes by the 185 Day Rules, so if the spend less time in there own country they are not subject to Income Taxes. Canada is more subject to Residential Ties, or where your family lives, and not you.

 

I am not trying to make a case on whether the Thai Government enforces there rules when it comes to Visa. Or even if a Man on a Retirement Visa works for a living. But when it comes to being a Resident, they do have rules and this 180 Day is not an Unwritten Rule..

 

http://www.expatfocus.com/expatriate-thailand-taxation

1 hour ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

I actually expected many post such as this. That is because if it is not actively enforced it therefore does not exist. That Thailand is different than my own country. Is it?

...

I am not trying to make a case on whether the Thai Government enforces there rules when it comes to Visa. Or even if a Man on a Retirement Visa works for a living. But when it comes to being a Resident, they do have rules and this 180 Day is not an Unwritten Rule..

 

http://www.expatfocus.com/expatriate-thailand-taxation

I agree with you - the 180-day rule as regards Taxation is written / existing law and affects income from anywhere in the world if that money is transferred to Thailand in the year it is earned. 

 

There has never been a reference to this 180-day rule in immigration-rules regarding Tourist Visa use, however (my other point in that post).  And when a visa-exempt rule did exist (rescinded, as posted previously), the test was up-to 90-days per 180-days - so still not a parallel to the tax-rule of 180 days/yr.  Apples and Oranges.

2 hours ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

When you are deemed a "Resident", in your own country, or any other, you are subject to full taxation, unless your country offers tax breaks to certain people, and regardless of where you earn this money. Most people are accustomed to earning a wage in there country, paying taxes there, and end of story.

The Thai authorities only enforce their own tax laws. They do not assume tax laws of other countries ought to apply in Thailand, and try to enforce them accordingly. I am well aware that US tax laws are different. What we are discussing is the laws of Thailand, which have been correctly explained.

Edited October 28, 20178 yr by BritTim

14 hours ago, JackThompson said:

15 hours ago, seancbk said:

The immigration law that used to specify a limit on tourist visas per year (or rather days in Thailand per year) was amended in 2008 and the wording about limitations was removed.  Since then it has been possible to visit Thailand as often as you want on tourist visas.

Any mention of resident for tax purposes is irrelevant as a tourist doesn't work here.

The limit you refer to only ever applied to Visa-Exempt entries.  There has never been a limit on entries with a valid Tourist Visa.

 

The tax-laws do apply to overseas-incomes of those in Thailand over 180 days/yr - but only if that income is transferred to Thailand in the same year in which it is earned.  The best way to stay clear of the tax-issue, is to transfer money to Thailand earned from previous tax-years - which comes down to having at least one-year's worth of living expenses in savings.

 

Unfortunately my only evidence of the change in law is a screen grab which I can't locate, however I am 100% sure it had nothing to do with visa exempt entries.  Perhaps @ubonjoe still has the requisite rulings on hand.

As for overseas income, seriously how the hell is the Thai Government going to know that the cash you bring in was earned in the last year or not?  
 

Aside from which if you've made your money and retire to Thailand at say 30 years old, you no longer 'earn' money, everything you have is just money you own, not money you 'earn'.    

 

10 hours ago, JackThompson said:

I agree with you - the 180-day rule as regards Taxation is written / existing law and affects income from anywhere in the world if that money is transferred to Thailand in the year it is earned. 

 

There has never been a reference to this 180-day rule in immigration-rules regarding Tourist Visa use, however (my other point in that post).  And when a visa-exempt rule did exist (rescinded, as posted previously), the test was up-to 90-days per 180-days - so still not a parallel to the tax-rule of 180 days/yr.  Apples and Oranges.

I would like to see where you read that money has to be transferred to Thailand before it is Taxable Income? I never came across that anywhere. I did come across many guys who opened Off-Shore Bank Accounts so they could hide there income and not bring there money into there country, but that didn't make it legal.

 

Somebody else posted earlier on the an Immigration Officer told him about this 180 Day Unwritten Rule concerning Tourist Visas, so I guess you could say that there has been at least one reference made here and by somebody other than me.

 

But I do agree that being subject to taxation is far different than apply for a Tourist Visa. All I know for sure was when I first started coming here many years ago, I was able to enter and leave as many times as I wanted to under the Visa Exempt Program with no problems at all. But now I read the many people are questioned when doing this and even to the point of being warned not to return this way next time. So something has changed for sure.

16 minutes ago, seancbk said:

 

Unfortunately my only evidence of the change in law is a screen grab which I can't locate, however I am 100% sure it had nothing to do with visa exempt entries.  Perhaps @ubonjoe still has the requisite rulings on hand.

As for overseas income, seriously how the hell is the Thai Government going to know that the cash you bring in was earned in the last year or not?  
 

Aside from which if you've made your money and retire to Thailand at say 30 years old, you no longer 'earn' money, everything you have is just money you own, not money you 'earn'.    

 

Many people on Retirement Extensions are still working. You only need money in the bank and be 55 years or older to get that. Which brings into question if they can still legally do that and still work then as well?

 

How does the Thai Government know that the money you bring into the country was earned outside of it by working or not working? How does the UK Government know that with there Overseas Workers? Or the Canadian Government? Or the USA Government?

 

I don't work for the IRS, or any other Tax Collection Agencies, so I can't answer that question. All I can say for sure is that they do have there ways and stiff penalties when one does get caught trying to cheat them.

 

 

49 minutes ago, seancbk said:

 

Unfortunately my only evidence of the change in law is a screen grab which I can't locate, however I am 100% sure it had nothing to do with visa exempt entries.  Perhaps @ubonjoe still has the requisite rulings on hand.

As for overseas income, seriously how the hell is the Thai Government going to know that the cash you bring in was earned in the last year or not?  
 

Aside from which if you've made your money and retire to Thailand at say 30 years old, you no longer 'earn' money, everything you have is just money you own, not money you 'earn'.    

 

"Everything you have is just money you own, not money you earn?"

 

What about Interest one gets from Savings Accounts? Capital Gains from the sale of Stocks and Bonds? Dividend Payments? Money earned on Rental Property? Aren't all these things taxable in your country?

 

Anyone who can Retire at age 30 obviously has a huge net worth to be able to do that, or earns his money in the Black Way. Generally people with this sizable amount of money invest it and live off these investment payments to keep up with inflation.

 

So all these investment payments would be taxable. I don't know anyone who just lives off the money they have and doesn't earn some money from it in the mean time.

2 hours ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

I would like to see where you read that money has to be transferred to Thailand before it is Taxable Income? I never came across that anywhere. I did come across many guys who opened Off-Shore Bank Accounts so they could hide there income and not bring there money into there country, but that didn't make it legal.

The tax tax rules as they apply to residents and non residents are easy to find all over the Internet (in English as well as in Thai). Since you do not seem to be aware of the Google search function, here is a very clear explanation from the Thai Revenue Department: http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html. Relevant section reads:

Quote

            Taxpayers are classified into “resident” and “non-resident”. “Resident” means any person residing in Thailand for a period or periods aggregating more than 180 days in any tax (calendar) year. A resident of Thailand is liable to pay tax on income from sources in Thailand as well as on the portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand. A non-resident is, however, subject to tax only on income from sources in Thailand. 

...

 

2 hours ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

All I know for sure was when I first started coming here many years ago, I was able to enter and leave as many times as I wanted to under the Visa Exempt Program with no problems at all. But now I read the many people are questioned when doing this and even to the point of being warned not to return this way next time. So something has changed for sure.

This changed in 2014, and was originally intended to be even more strict than the way it was ultimately applied. The crackdown was supposed to apply starting 12 August 2014, but points of entry in the South of Thailand jumped the gun and started to apply stricter entry rules beginning May 2014. See https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/738876-confirmed-visa-run-crackdown-effective-from-august-12-2014-thai-foreign-ministry/. Although badly worded, it became clear that the main focus was on visa exempt entries, especially by land.

 

A few days after the official crackdown, having seen unintended consequences, Gen Prayuth issued a statement effectively caused many of the changes to be rolled back. I cannot find the exact text of his statement, but the essence of it can be gleaned from https://www.thephuketnews.com/coup-leader-calls-for-immigration-to-relax-‘out-in’-visa-clampdown-48007.php. This is the main point:

Quote

During his weekly TV briefing to the nation, aired on all channels, the general said he had ordered the Immigration Police to be “more flexible” in its application of the law.

Since then, immigration has been less than clear about how to interpret the rules officially introduced on 12 August 2014, but they are supposed to flexibly apply a crackdown on in/out visa exempt entries, and other methods used by illegal workers to stay in Thailand on tourist entries. Not surprisingly, officials interpret this in different ways.

50 minutes ago, BritTim said:

The tax tax rules as they apply to residents and non residents are easy to find all over the Internet (in English as well as in Thai). Since you do not seem to be aware of the Google search function, here is a very clear explanation from the Thai Revenue Department: http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html. Relevant section reads:

...

 

This changed in 2014, and was originally intended to be even more strict than the way it was ultimately applied. The crackdown was supposed to apply starting 12 August 2014, but points of entry in the South of Thailand jumped the gun and started to apply stricter entry rules beginning May 2014. See https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/738876-confirmed-visa-run-crackdown-effective-from-august-12-2014-thai-foreign-ministry/. Although badly worded, it became clear that the main focus was on visa exempt entries, especially by land.

 

A few days after the official crackdown, having seen unintended consequences, Gen Prayuth issued a statement effectively caused many of the changes to be rolled back. I cannot find the exact text of his statement, but the essence of it can be gleaned from https://www.thephuketnews.com/coup-leader-calls-for-immigration-to-relax-‘out-in’-visa-clampdown-48007.php. This is the main point:

Since then, immigration has been less than clear about how to interpret the rules officially introduced on 12 August 2014, but they are supposed to flexibly apply a crackdown on in/out visa exempt entries, and other methods used by illegal workers to stay in Thailand on tourist thus entries. Not surprisingly, officials interpret this in different ways.

So as a Resident: "Portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand." means to you that if you earn money outside of Thailand by working, but yet a Resident of Thailand, that you don't have to pay any taxes on this?

 

This refers to someone who is working and living in Thailand, and have some other income coming in from outside sources, like Rental Income. Or Dividend Income? Or Retirement Income? Which these types of Income are normally dealt with by that local government.

 

It is obvious from this statement that if you are living and working in Thailand, you are not working someplace else. What you linked does not cover this. But up to you to believe whatever you want to.

 

Yes there has been a crackdown on people allowed to enter Thailand legally on Visa Exempts. But it should further be noted that having a Visa to enter this country does not give you automatic permission to do so. So a bit like rolling the Dice if you have been here more than 90 days every 180 days. Or 180 days every 360 days. So as Clint would say: "Do you feel lucky?"  

4 hours ago, seancbk said:

Unfortunately my only evidence of the change in law is a screen grab which I can't locate, however I am 100% sure it had nothing to do with visa exempt entries.  Perhaps @ubonjoe still has the requisite rulings on hand.

The police order you are thinking of was 608/2549 that limited visa exempt entities to total of 90 days in 6 months that was rescinded by this one that brought in the 15 days at border crossings. visa exemp tPO 778-2551_en.pdf  That order was rescinded when the 2 visa exempt entry rule at land border crossing per calendar year came into effect.

There has never been a order, rule or regulation limiting tourist visa entries.

 

46 minutes ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

So as a Resident: "Portion of income from foreign sources that is brought into Thailand." means to you that if you earn money outside of Thailand by working, but yet a Resident of Thailand, that you don't have to pay any taxes on this?

Correct, as long as you do not bring the money into Thailand in the year that it is earned.

Perhaps, you feel the Thai tax laws should be different, more in line with those of most Western countries. Feel free to contact the Thai Revenue Department to suggest this.

EDIT: Of course, depending on the laws of the country where you earned the income, you may be liable for tax on that income there.

Edited October 29, 20178 yr by BritTim

4 hours ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

How does the Thai Government know that the money you bring into the country was earned outside of it by working or not working? How does the UK Government know that with there Overseas Workers? Or the Canadian Government? Or the USA Government?

In the case of the USA government, they require my Thai bank to report to them.  I feel fortunate that my bank is willing to open an account under these circumstances, given some country's banks now refuse to deal with USA-citizens at all (including Switzerland), to avoid the overhead and coercive-threats if they don't participate in fleecing us.

 

Thailand could choose to audit foreign-residents, and request explanation of any transfers to Thailand.  If done frequently enough to get the expat community's attention, the result might be a net-loss to the country (loss of sales-taxes from those who moved elsewhere, etc).

 

4 hours ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

Anyone who can Retire at age 30 obviously has a huge net worth to be able to do that, or earns his money in the Black Way.

There are many 100% legal ways to earn a living, these days, without reporting to work in a "brick and mortar" location daily.  These are not "black" or even "grey" income-sources.  Whether the transactions are taxable, and by whom, depends on the nationality of the persons taking part in the financial transaction, location of the person/organization being paid, etc. 

 

58 minutes ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

... having a Visa to enter this country does not give you automatic permission to do so. So a bit like rolling the Dice if you have been here more than 90 days every 180 days. Or 180 days every 360 days. So as Clint would say: "Do you feel lucky?"  

If entering by most airports or the Poipet land-crossing, I agree 100% with the "Do you feel lucky?" sentiment.  Yes, some travelers have related IOs telling many "whopper" non-existent laws/rules - apparently made-up on the spot.  Given the arbitrary lawlessness of these zones, knowing "the law" won't help you.  Not being a risk-taker, I never attempted to enter this way when I was a frequent Tourist Visa user.

But, if you enter with a valid Tourist Visa plus 20K Baht worth of cash or travelers checks at the majority of crossings, where the laws on the books are followed, then entry is not a problem.

5 hours ago, BritTim said:

Correct, as long as you do not bring the money into Thailand in the year that it is earned.

Perhaps, you feel the Thai tax laws should be different, more in line with those of most Western countries. Feel free to contact the Thai Revenue Department to suggest this.

EDIT: Of course, depending on the laws of the country where you earned the income, you may be liable for tax on that income there.

Then I wonder what "Portion" (which does not mean the smallest piece), they are talking about which is earned outside of Thailand, that is taxable? How do they define brought into Thailand? Via Suitcase full of Cash, Travelers Checks, or just using your Bank or Credit Card at the ATM Machine?

 

By this definition you linked here, any person considered a Resident of Thailand, by staying here 180 Days a year or more, working or not working here, who brings in any money from an ATM Machine, which he earned by employment, pensions, rental income, dividends, or savings accounts, is subject to paying Income Taxes in Thailand.  

 

What I find most confusing is that if the "Resident" and "Non-Resident" of Thailand both have to pay Income Taxes on money earned in Thailand, and money earned outside of Thailand is not Taxable Income, then why bother with the 180 Day Rule to establish residency, when there is no difference tax wise between a Resident and Non-Resident?

 

It is not that I feel that the Thai Tax Laws should be different and more in line with most Western Countries. It is because I feel they are already in line with Western Countries and this is just another simple case of people misunderstanding the written rules and laws.  

7 hours ago, BritTim said:

The tax tax rules as they apply to residents and non residents are easy to find all over the Internet (in English as well as in Thai). Since you do not seem to be aware of the Google search function, here is a very clear explanation from the Thai Revenue Department: http://www.rd.go.th/publish/6045.0.html. Relevant section reads:

...

 

This changed in 2014, and was originally intended to be even more strict than the way it was ultimately applied. The crackdown was supposed to apply starting 12 August 2014, but points of entry in the South of Thailand jumped the gun and started to apply stricter entry rules beginning May 2014. See https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/738876-confirmed-visa-run-crackdown-effective-from-august-12-2014-thai-foreign-ministry/. Although badly worded, it became clear that the main focus was on visa exempt entries, especially by land.

 

A few days after the official crackdown, having seen unintended consequences, Gen Prayuth issued a statement effectively caused many of the changes to be rolled back. I cannot find the exact text of his statement, but the essence of it can be gleaned from https://www.thephuketnews.com/coup-leader-calls-for-immigration-to-relax-‘out-in’-visa-clampdown-48007.php. This is the main point:

Since then, immigration has been less than clear about how to interpret the rules officially introduced on 12 August 2014, but they are supposed to flexibly apply a crackdown on in/out visa exempt entries, and other methods used by illegal workers to stay in Thailand on tourist entries. Not surprisingly, officials interpret this in different ways.

All 3 of these links say that once you become a Resident of Thailand you have to pay tax on your world wide income. They also do not mention anything about having to bring this money into Thailand first, to be taxed on that.

 

So who's link is correct? Yours? Or my three?

 

http://www.thaiworkpermit.com/personal-income-tax-in-thailand.html

 

http://www.thephoenixcapitalgroup.com/how-much-tax-does-expats-pay-in-thailand/

 

http://www.expatfocus.com/expatriate-thailand-taxation

 

Of course there is the 3 Golden Rules or Living and Working Overseas. Work in 1 Country. 2 Live in another Country. 3 Bank in a third Country. They call them the 3 Golden Rules as it is hard to track you, how you earned your money, and where your money is, by doing it this way.

 

So if one works Overseas and keeps his money in a separate place, and only brings in what he needs from time to time from an ATM Machine, then chances of getting caught are slim to none. But it still doesn't make this legal.

 

 

2 hours ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

How do they define brought into Thailand? Via Suitcase full of Cash, Travelers Checks, or just using your Bank or Credit Card at the ATM Machine?

All of the above. If it is money you earned in the current year, and you cause it to enter Thailand in any manner, it becomes taxable. Your point that the Thai authorities will have a difficult job tracking this is true. Arguably, it would be even harder to track income that never enters Thailand. The Thai authorities do not have the kind of clout the US have in mandating every financial institution in the world to provide them with financial data.

 

2 hours ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

What I find most confusing is that if the "Resident" and "Non-Resident" of Thailand both have to pay Income Taxes on money earned in Thailand, and money earned outside of Thailand is not Taxable Income, then why bother with the 180 Day Rule to establish residency, when there is no difference tax wise between a Resident and Non-Resident?

The key distinction is that non-residents do not have to pay personal income tax on income earned outside Thailand, even if they bring that money into Thailand in the year it is earned. However, residents do have to pay tax on overseas income if they bring it into Thailand.

 

2 hours ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

So who's link is correct? Yours? Or my three?

.It is up to you who you believe. In my opinion, the very clear explanation by Thailand's Revenue Department (responsible for collecting tax) is highly credible. However, if you wish to believe that certain random websites know more about the Thai tax code, then I am not going to spend time trying to dissuade you.

9 hours ago, ubonjoe said:

The police order you are thinking of was 608/2549 that limited visa exempt entities to total of 90 days in 6 months that was rescinded by this one that brought in the 15 days at border crossings. visa exemp tPO 778-2551_en.pdf  That order was rescinded when the 2 visa exempt entry rule at land border crossing per calendar year came into effect.

There has never been a order, rule or regulation limiting tourist visa entries.

 

 

Thanks UbonJoe.   I was sure it related to actual Tourist Visas, but clearly I was wrong.   I arrived here in 2008 so the change in the law was beneficial to me.

 

13 hours ago, BritTim said:

All of the above. If it is money you earned in the current year, and you cause it to enter Thailand in any manner, it becomes taxable. Your point that the Thai authorities will have a difficult job tracking this is true. Arguably, it would be even harder to track income that never enters Thailand. The Thai authorities do not have the kind of clout the US have in mandating every financial institution in the world to provide them with financial data.

 

The key distinction is that non-residents do not have to pay personal income tax on income earned outside Thailand, even if they bring that money into Thailand in the year it is earned. However, residents do have to pay tax on overseas income if they bring it into Thailand.

 

.It is up to you who you believe. In my opinion, the very clear explanation by Thailand's Revenue Department (responsible for collecting tax) is highly credible. However, if you wish to believe that certain random websites know more about the Thai tax code, then I am not going to spend time trying to dissuade you.

I am sorry and I am not trying to offend you in any way. If I rebuttal this so much with you it is only because this rule of having to bring in money you earned first to be taxed on it, or having to separate you money from your savings to earned money for this year, makes no sense at all. I never heard of anyone who separates this years wages from previous years wages, unless by accident.

 

For example: Mr. A is a Resident of Thailand by living here more than 180 Days in a year and on a Retirement Extension but still works 170 Days Overseas. He is originally from Canada and still has a Bank Account there, but decides to have his earned money deposited directly into his bank in Thailand as he is saving to buy a house here and needs a monthly allowance to live here..

 

Mr. B is a Resident of Thailand also by living here more than 180 Days in a year and on a Retirement Extension to, but he to still works 170 Days Overseas. He is originally from Canada and still has a Bank Account there, so he decides to have his earned money deposited directly into his bank in Canada.  From there he withdraws money monthly for a monthly allowance to live on  while living here in Thailand. He to is saving to buy a house here but decides that when he has enough saved he will just write a Check and deposit that needed money in a Thai Bank.

 

From what you have told me Mr. A would be subject to full Thai Income Taxes up to +30% while Mr. B would legally not have to pay any Thai Income Tax at all. Which this Tax Code would not based on both being a Resident of Thailand, or both working Overseas and earning wages that has not been taxed, but only based on where they deposit there earned wages.

 

I am sorry but I find this impossible to believe.  

1 hour ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

I am sorry and I am not trying to offend you in any way. If I rebuttal this so much with you it is only because this rule of having to bring in money you earned first to be taxed on it, or having to separate you money from your savings to earned money for this year, makes no sense at all. I never heard of anyone who separates this years wages from previous years wages, unless by accident.

 

For example: Mr. A is a Resident of Thailand by living here more than 180 Days in a year and on a Retirement Extension but still works 170 Days Overseas. He is originally from Canada and still has a Bank Account there, but decides to have his earned money deposited directly into his bank in Thailand as he is saving to buy a house here and needs a monthly allowance to live here..

 

Mr. B is a Resident of Thailand also by living here more than 180 Days in a year and on a Retirement Extension to, but he to still works 170 Days Overseas. He is originally from Canada and still has a Bank Account there, so he decides to have his earned money deposited directly into his bank in Canada.  From there he withdraws money monthly for a monthly allowance to live on  while living here in Thailand. He to is saving to buy a house here but decides that when he has enough saved he will just write a Check and deposit that needed money in a Thai Bank.

 

From what you have told me Mr. A would be subject to full Thai Income Taxes up to +30% while Mr. B would legally not have to pay any Thai Income Tax at all. Which this Tax Code would not based on both being a Resident of Thailand, or both working Overseas and earning wages that has not been taxed, but only based on where they deposit there earned wages.

 

I am sorry but I find this impossible to believe.  

I am not surprised you find this impossible to believe when it is first explained to you. Apart from the points you mention, there is the point that money is fungible (meaning that you cannot distinguish money just paid into a bank account from the money that was there before the latest deposit). Thus, even if you do not separate current year and older income into different accounts, who is to say whether a transfer from that account to Thailand is transferring recent or older income? The fact nevertheless remains that this is what the Thai rules on personal income tax stipulate.

 

Here is what KPMG (the big international accounting consultancy) has to say on the matter: https://home.kpmg.com/xx/en/home/insights/2011/12/thailand-income-tax.html

 

Quote

 

Salary earned from working abroad

Is salary earned from working abroad taxed in Thailand? If so, how?

Salaries receive from employment exercises outside of Thailand are exempt from Thai tax, if not paid in or remitted into Thailand within the same calendar year it is received and provided the cost is not recharged into Thailand.

 

Note that 'recharged', I think, means that tax liabilities cannot be avoided by sending money out of Thailand to pay you in a foreign bank account.

 

Perhaps, it is a sign that I have been too long in Thailand, but absurdities in its laws have ceased to shock me as much as they did when I first started visiting. Stop trying to use logic in understanding Thailand!

Edited October 30, 20178 yr by BritTim

55 minutes ago, BritTim said:

I am not surprised you find this impossible to believe when it is first explained to you. Apart from the points you mention, there is the point that money is fungible (meaning that you cannot distinguish money just paid into a bank account from the money that was there before the latest deposit). Thus, even if you do not separate current year and older income into different accounts, who is to say whether a transfer from that account to Thailand is transferring recent or older income? The fact nevertheless remains that this is what the Thai rules on personal income tax stipulate.

 

Here is what KPMG (the big international accounting consultancy) has to say on the matter: https://home.kpmg.com/xx/en/home/insights/2011/12/thailand-income-tax.html

 

Note that 'recharged', I think, means that tax liabilities cannot be avoided by sending money out of Thailand to pay you in a foreign bank account.

 

Perhaps, it is a sign that I have been too long in Thailand, but absurdities in its laws have ceased to shock me as much as they did when I first started visiting. Stop trying to use logic in understanding Thailand!

Yes, I agree you are correct on two counts here. That you can't tell the difference between this years money and last years money, and for workers overseas, the tax rule is not logical.

 

But it does support what you said and in which you need to bring in money (ie Direct Deposit to your bank in Thailand from an Overseas Employer) to be subject to taxation.

On 10/29/2017 at 3:46 AM, GOLDBUGGY said:

Many people on Retirement Extensions are still working. You only need money in the bank and be 55 years or older to get that. Which brings into question if they can still legally do that and still work then as well?

 

How does the Thai Government know that the money you bring into the country was earned outside of it by working or not working? How does the UK Government know that with there Overseas Workers? Or the Canadian Government? Or the USA Government?

 

I don't work for the IRS, or any other Tax Collection Agencies, so I can't answer that question. All I can say for sure is that they do have there ways and stiff penalties when one does get caught trying to cheat them.

 

 

 

I was under the impression that once you are on a retirement extension in Thailand it is no longer possible to get a Work Permit here, so working here is no longer possible.

 

9 hours ago, seancbk said:

 

I was under the impression that once you are on a retirement extension in Thailand it is no longer possible to get a Work Permit here, so working here is no longer possible.

 

Sorry, but I was making reference to people on Retirement Extensions who work outside of Thailand.

 

Not sure what the rule is for working inside of Thailand but I would think that a Retirement Extension could be changed to another type of Visa for working purposes.