Navy vessels churning water in bloated Chao Phraya

[webfact]

Navy vessels churning water in bloated Chao Phraya

By The Nation

 

The Royal Thai Navy on Wednesday morning deployed eight vessels, including HTMS Marnvichai, in the Chao Phraya River at the Klong Lad Pho water control station in a bid to speed flow with the churning of their engines.

The effort underway at the station in Samut Prakan’s Phra Pradaeng district is aimed at averting flooding by getting water flowing more quickly towards the Gulf of Thailand.

 

The plan was put into effect after the release of water from the Chao Phraya Dam in central Chai Nat province was increased above 2,700 cubic metres per second.

 

That flow is expected to pass through Klong Lad Pho station at a rate of 29 million cubic metres a day.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/breakingnews/30330083

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2017-10-25

[MaxYakov]

Not that again! Do they have the CO2 credits for that?

[tominbkk]

Does this actually do anything?  I don't know physics very well but it doesn't seem to be in line with basic principles.  What say you guys?

[coulson]

Will YL get praised for her administration coming up with this daft notion?

 

Can't wait to see how they will change the tides next.

[Crossy]

12 minutes ago, tominbkk said:

Does this actually do anything?  I don't know physics very well but it doesn't seem to be in line with basic principles.  What say you guys?

It works ok with air in tunnels, I'm sure you've noticed the jet-engine like things mounted near the roof.

 

 

Just how it transfers to using boats and water ...

[overherebc]

27 minutes ago, Crossy said:

It works ok with air in tunnels, I'm sure you've noticed the jet-engine like things mounted near the roof.

 

 

Just how it transfers to using boats and water ...

Reckon the fact that there isn't a twice a day mighty unstoppable 'tide' of air coming into the far end of the tunnel might play a part.

Why not use the harmless green dye they use/used to use in Chicago for St Patricks day to turn the river bright green and see how far the pushed water goes.

Edited October 25, 2017 by overherebc
Adding photo.

[Psimbo]

40 minutes ago, coulson said:

Will YL get praised for her administration coming up with this daft notion?

 

Can't wait to see how they will change the tides next.

IIRC it was originally the notion of someone who is no longer with us so its a great idea (even tho its not)!

Edited October 25, 2017 by Psimbo

[chrisinth]

There should be no reason why this wouldn't aid the flow as long as the tidal conditions are either at slack water or on an ebb tide and there is unrestricted access to the sea.

 

To try and assist the flow against an incoming tide would be like pushing against a wall, but the water would still have to disperse somewhere.

[SkyNets]

Leave the vessels there when done, just run them in reverse when the drought comes next year. See, 4.0 in motion.

[ExpatOilWorker]

1 hour ago, Crossy said:

It works ok with air in tunnels, I'm sure you've noticed the jet-engine like things mounted near the roof.

 

 

Just how it transfers to using boats and water ...

Anybody have a spare five minutes to read this: 

https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/278722.pdf

Then calculate the dimensionless Reynolds number and reverse calculate the effect on turbulent water flow?

Crossy?

[douginbkk]

This is an interesting debate on a physics forum about the effectiveness of using boat propellers to speed up the flow of a river https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/pushing-the-river-with-boats.541392/

 

[phantomfiddler]

According to the theory of Archimedes, the mere presence of the boats in the river is going to raise the water level. Eureka !!!

[Bob12345]

Will it work? 

Yes

 

Will it make a noticable difference?

No

 

And at what costs?

Man hours, fuel, pollution, etc.

[HooHaa]

helpful or not the idea certainly has legs.

[ExpatOilWorker]

1 minute ago, Bob12345 said:

Will it work? 

Yes

 

Will it make a noticable difference?

No

 

And at what costs?

Man hours, fuel, pollution, etc.

It is like the old saying, that is all Chinese people jump at the exact same time, the Earth will actually be pushed a little out of its orbit.

True, but the Earth will also be pushed out of its orbit if I jump alone, just a whole lot less.

[phantomfiddler]

One huge obstacle is presently causing much damage to the flow characteristics in the floodwater in central Bangkok. The huge almost complete loop in the river ! This is drastically reversing the water flow energy, causing seriously higher water levels. A great expense surely, but the riverbed should be engineered to bypass this loop, leaving a huge area of land that could be filled and constructively used, and at the same time greatly improving the flooding situation.

[ExpatOilWorker]

21 minutes ago, douginbkk said:

This is an interesting debate on a physics forum about the effectiveness of using boat propellers to speed up the flow of a river https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/pushing-the-river-with-boats.541392/

 

Thanks for sharing, but the whole thread is kind of the blind leading the blind.

[AGareth2]

1 hour ago, chrisinth said:

To try and assist the flow against an incoming tide would be like pushing against a wall, but the water would still have to disperse somewhere.

sideways over the banks?

[Beryl123]

1 hour ago, Psimbo said:

IIRC it was originally the notion of someone who is no longer with us so its a great idea (even tho its not)!

Careful you'll get locked up or banned or worse...............stupid idea but to be expected

[JAG]

It is all very well discussing whether or not revving up the LGBs (Large Grey Boats) engines on the river will help, there are other just as fundamental questions from the last major floods that must be asked.

 

I seem for example to remember that the brand of wellie boots favoured by the previous Prime Minister was a central theme of much criticism here, and one gathers largely responsible for that failure to reverse the forces of nature.  What sort of boots are being worn this time - we should be told!

[tifino]

 

the fantasy pipe dream could be kept alive, by sinking a line abreast of these:

 

then they can pretend the waterline has been controlled, by using the ballast-blow, to create the illusion

[noahvail]

Ain’t fluid dynamics great, folks? Of course it makes a difference...initially. But unless the entire volume of water is being moved - shore to shore by surface to river bed = the effect will be quickly absorbed, and the water will return to the speed at which the rest of the river is moving - within 50 to 100 meters. Now getting my popcorn and waiting for the replies LOL...

[JimHuaHin]

2 hours ago, tominbkk said:

Does this actually do anything?  I don't know physics very well but it doesn't seem to be in line with basic principles.  What say you guys?

For memory (from my undergraduate uni days), and the memory is a little rusty, using incompressible fluid dynamic principles, the impact on water flowing through Bangkok  would be insignificant.

 

What they are doing in Bangkok is a waste of time and money - but what else does the Thai military do?

[tominbkk]

27 minutes ago, noahvail said:

Ain’t fluid dynamics great, folks? Of course it makes a difference...initially. But unless the entire volume of water is being moved - shore to shore by surface to river bed = the effect will be quickly absorbed, and the water will return to the speed at which the rest of the river is moving - within 50 to 100 meters. Now getting my popcorn and waiting for the replies LOL...

Thanks, that is what I was thinking more or less but was unable to articulate.

[impulse]

36 minutes ago, noahvail said:

Ain’t fluid dynamics great, folks? Of course it makes a difference...initially. But unless the entire volume of water is being moved - shore to shore by surface to river bed = the effect will be quickly absorbed, and the water will return to the speed at which the rest of the river is moving - within 50 to 100 meters. Now getting my popcorn and waiting for the replies LOL...

 

It will eventually be at the same speed as the rest of the water, true.  But you've added kinetic energy to the system (in the correct direction) so the whole system will be flowing faster.  Meaning the rate at which the water flows to the sea will be increased.

 

How much faster, and whether it's an effective solution will take more figuring than I've ever read here from any geniuses at TVF.  But suffice it to say that axial flow pumps (which is what a boat's propeller is) are a very widely used method of moving water around.

 

[55Jay]

1 hour ago, douginbkk said:

This is an interesting debate on a physics forum about the effectiveness of using boat propellers to speed up the flow of a river https://www.physicsforums.com/threads/pushing-the-river-with-boats.541392/

 

Interesting read.  Saved this site/forum into Favorites for future perusal.  Thanks.

[whatsupdoc]

I would think that it only creates more waves (over a short distance) but has no effect whatsoever on the flowing speed of an entire river.

[chrisinth]

1 hour ago, AGareth2 said:

sideways over the banks?

Only place it could go......................

 

Of course you would need a lot of thrust for that to happen IMO.

[tifino]

or spray, like a longtail

[basatop]

2 hours ago, Psimbo said:

IIRC it was originally the notion of someone who is no longer with us so its a great idea (even tho its not)!

Yes,it was called 1000 boats,a lot of negative,even vulgar posts appeared in ThaiVisa,mostly against minister of science.I can not understand why

ThaiVisa survived all of that?! It was obvious example of LM offence!

In fact I know: certain member Mr B. was scapegoat.Where is he now?