Lost passport with visa which is expiring end of month - can not get new one till 2 weeks after expiry of visa

[ozterix]

I have a very complex issue, there might be no solution unless someone here has a great idea... or a connection that could help

 

One of my employees lost his passport and did not notice it until we asked him to prepare for renewing his Visa/Work permit expiring soon. He has a BOI work permit.

 

After he noticed he lost it (or was stolen), he went to the police and applied for a new passport but his passport will not get here until 10 November (expected), his visa expires 30 October.

 

To get a new passport he has to go home but we managed to get his country to issue a new passport based on the police report and finger print registered here with the police and sent by courrier to Malaysia who will issue the new passport. His country of origin (Tanzania) does not have a consulate in Thailand, Thailand does not have a consulate in Tanzania, so the closest consulate where he could ask to get a new passport sent is Malaysia, and they are not rushing it so the new passport is going to be late. We rushed to get this in time and thought it would work but Malaysia does not help and it is delayed...

 

We tried multiple times with Immigration and they denied to give him an extension based on the police report, the fact that his passport is on his way and that he has a valid work permit, but the officer says he must leave the country, and without a passport, he can only use the police document and return to Tanzania. This is the last answer we got today... we are running out of time.

 

This is going to invalidate all his documents, WP etc... and we will have to re apply from day one, + all the cost of sending the guy back to Tanzania to get the new passport then to a country like Kenya where he can visit a Thai Embassy to apply for his Non B and them come back here if he is not rejected...

 

Hope I am clear, if anyone has any idea, please shoot...

 

I would appreciate to not receive comments such as it is his fault, he could be more careful, or worse as I heard also...

[ubonjoe]

He will not be able to leave the country until he gets the passport or a emergency travel document. Just the police report is not enough.

Immigration cannot do anything without a passport or a emergency travel document.

Some emergency travel documents issued are equal to a passport while others are for a trip to his home country.

If you were sure his passport was going to be here by the 10th it might be worth asking immigration if they will do the extension with 11 days of overstay. If immigration says no the only option may be for him to get a emergency travel document to avoid going on an overstay.

Since Tanzania has no embassy here the MFA could issue a emergency certificate that would allow him to leave and travel to Tanzania. Info is here. http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4909/15375-ISSUANCE-OF-EMERGENCY-CERTIFICATE-(EC).html

 

 

 

 

[ozterix]

Thanks UBJ

he is currently at immigration at chang wattane and they are asking him to book a flight and they will issue a certificate so he can leave the country... this is messed up and I also did not understand how but they apparently are doing this.

We tried and begged to have an extension as we know the passport should be here soon, I even suggested to overstay until the passport arrives but they tell me it is a bad idea...

The only thing that could help today would be some connection internally that would put some pressure to accept an extension of a week

[ubonjoe]

27 minutes ago, ozterix said:

he is currently at immigration at chang wattane and they are asking him to book a flight and they will issue a certificate so he can leave the country... this is messed up and I also did not understand how but they apparently are doing this.

That is being done at the Department of Consular affairs of the MFA at Chaeng Wattana not immigration. It is what I posted a link for in my previous post. The ticket leaving the country is one of the requirements.

 

27 minutes ago, ozterix said:

The only thing that could help today would be some connection internally that would put some pressure to accept an extension of a week

As I wrote before immigration cannot do any extension without a travel document of some kind. They might give him a week to leave the country with the emergency certificate if his flight out is after the 30th.

[ozterix]

Immigration refuses an extension, they made him buy a ticket to leave on Monday, last day of his visa and they organise the document to let him leave the country.

You guess that any requirements, ticket or proof of $ to support him through his extension, we would  have happily provided but after 4 attempts, all provided different answers but nobody accepted to provide an extension, so unless we have a mechanism to insist, he is out next week...

 

[steve187]

passport the most important thing you have when in a foreign country,  more so when your home country make it difficult to obtain a replacement in the country being visited.

 

looks like a visit to his family will be on the cards

[BritTim]

What a mess! The biggest issue is that he is a citizen of Tanzania which makes the passport, visa and other document replacements such a nightmare. With immigration's cooperation, and a compliant doctor, you could play games with a letter claiming he is unable to leave the country for medical reasons. That is clearly not legal, but sympathetic officials might agree the rules are unfair in his case and be willing to cooperate.

[portroyal]

Tanzania is a very beautiful country...

[Lokie]

Would be nice just for once to see the authorities help in a case where clearly the people involved are trying to do things legally in a situation anyone could be in, giving the poor fellow an extension until the PP arrives is not going to be the end of the world is it? Just seems sometimes they go out of their way to tie people up with officialdom and red tape madness. 

[ubonjoe]

1 hour ago, Lokie said:

Would be nice just for once to see the authorities help in a case where clearly the people involved are trying to do things legally in a situation anyone could be in, giving the poor fellow an extension until the PP arrives is not going to be the end of the world is it? Just seems sometimes they go out of their way to tie people up with officialdom and red tape madness. 

The problem is that he has nothing for immigration to stamp an extension into. Without a passport he is technically not legally in the country.

If his country had a embassy or consulate here they could possibly issue a emergency travel doucment that the stamp could be put in.

[BritTim]

While not a reliable source, this webpage suggests there is a Tanzania consulate in Bangkok: http://www.embassy-worldwide.com/embassy/consulate-of-tanzania-in-bangkok-thailand/. It might be worth calling the phone number given to see if it (still) exists and, if so, they can provide some kind of piece of paper immigration would accept as a temporary passport.

[ubonjoe]

26 minutes ago, BritTim said:

While not a reliable source, this webpage suggests there is a Tanzania consulate in Bangkok: http://www.embassy-worldwide.com/embassy/consulate-of-tanzania-in-bangkok-thailand/. It might be worth calling the phone number given to see if it (still) exists and, if so, they can provide some kind of piece of paper immigration would accept as a temporary passport.

Nothing for it is shown here on this official website. http://www.foreign.go.tz/index.php/en/missions Same for the Thai MFA website: http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/information/1694/25754-TANZANIA-(Kuala-Lumpur).html

I did find a list of honorary consulates that shows this one that matches the one shown on your link. But I doubt they will be able help much since it is only an honorary consulate.

The Honorary Consulate of the United Republic of Tanzania in Thailand
S.L.D. Condominium
3rdFL., 501 Saladaeng 1,
RAMA IV RD
BANGKOK 10500 THAILAND
Tel. 235 8282 – 3/235 – 8131 – 238 – 5100
Fax (662) 236 – 1977

Source: https://www.tanzania-gov.de/embassy/consular-services/forms/2-stories/documents/77-tanzanias-honorary-consulates-abroad

[jeab1980]

If hevgoes home and his passport is going to Malaysia hes going to have even more problems surley. He cant get into Malaysia as he has no passport. His home country will be a bit pissed that he asked for it to be sent to Malaysia then he turns up at home. This could be a prolonged stay at home.

[ubonjoe]

5 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

If hevgoes home and his passport is going to Malaysia hes going to have even more problems surley. He cant get into Malaysia as he has no passport. His home country will be a bit pissed that he asked for it to be sent to Malaysia then he turns up at home. This could be a prolonged stay at home.

He was should of already gotten his new passport sent to him here according to posts by the OP.

His new passport has been delay by his government so they should not make much of a problem.

[ubonjoe]

9 minutes ago, jeab1980 said:

No his passport was due in Malaysia on 11th november according to op.

The wrote is expected on the 10th now and then this.

 

On 10/27/2017 at 3:01 PM, ozterix said:

We rushed to get this in time and thought it would work but Malaysia does not help and it is delayed...

Anyway that is all in the past since the MFA has or is issuing a emergency certificate so he can leave the country and travel home.

[MyFriend You]

8 hours ago, portroyal said:

Tanzania is a very beautiful country...

especially this time of the year.............and the Tiger Fish are running in the river as well.   OH, before I forget, yes, it's his own damned fault, he must be a great asset to your company for yu to be so concerned.  Replacing him will not be so hard I think, who have you ever known does not keep up with his passport, I know where both of mine are 24/7/365 and in 50 years of traveling never lost one..

[darrendsd]

Why doesn't the OP's friend just wait until his new PP arrives and when it does either go to Immigration and see if he can pay his overstay and get his stamps transferred there but if not leave via a land border, pay his O/S and come straight back?

 

Why he agreed to buy a ticket out when they told him to is beyond me to be honest, he just should have left and told them he would return on Monday to sort it but then go when his PP arrived

 

Last year I had a friend who applied for a new PP, his old PP was completely full, by the time it arrived he was on a months overstay, he went to CW paid the O/S fine of 15k and they transferred his stamps

 

I may be missing something but it seems the logical thing for the OP to do?

 

 

[darrendsd]

On 10/27/2017 at 4:34 PM, ozterix said:

Immigration refuses an extension, they made him buy a ticket to leave on Monday, last day of his visa and they organise the document to let him leave the country.

You guess that any requirements, ticket or proof of $ to support him through his extension, we would  have happily provided but after 4 attempts, all provided different answers but nobody accepted to provide an extension, so unless we have a mechanism to insist, he is out next week...

 

I'm also not sure how Immigration can organize the document for him to leave the country? 

 

I thought only the applicant could apply for a ETD?

 

How can they organize it for him within 4 days? 2 of which are a weekend?

[JackThompson]

8 minutes ago, darrendsd said:

I'm also not sure how Immigration can organize the document for him to leave the country? 

I thought only the applicant could apply for a ETD?

See Post #4

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1008660-lost-passport-with-visa-which-is-expiring-end-of-month-can-not-get-new-one-till-2-weeks-after-expiry-of-visa/?do=findComment&comment=12395922

 

On 10/27/2017 at 3:48 PM, ubonjoe said:

Since Tanzania has no embassy here the MFA could issue a emergency certificate that would allow him to leave and travel to Tanzania. Info is here. http://www.mfa.go.th/main/en/services/4909/15375-ISSUANCE-OF-EMERGENCY-CERTIFICATE-(EC).html

 

[darrendsd]

14 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

See Post #4

https://www.thaivisa.com/forum/topic/1008660-lost-passport-with-visa-which-is-expiring-end-of-month-can-not-get-new-one-till-2-weeks-after-expiry-of-visa/?do=findComment&comment=12395922

 

 

Thanks, I stand corrected

 

Immigration are usually a little flexible in these matters, I wonder if the OP's friend is black and due to the reputation of some black people in Thailand they are unwilling to help him?

 

I think the mistake the OP's friend made was going to Immigration without asking for advice either here or somewhere else first, Immigration certainly seem to be going out of their way to make sure he leaves and are showing no flexibility whatsoever

[ubonjoe]

9 hours ago, darrendsd said:

Why doesn't the OP's friend just wait until his new PP arrives and when it does either go to Immigration and see if he can pay his overstay and get his stamps transferred there but if not leave via a land border, pay his O/S and come straight back?

It is not a friend. It is one of his employees. You need to go back and read the topic again.

They asked immigration about doing the extension with an overstay and they said no.

[BritTim]

8 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

9 hours ago, darrendsd said:

Why doesn't the OP's friend just wait until his new PP arrives and when it does either go to Immigration and see if he can pay his overstay and get his stamps transferred there but if not leave via a land border, pay his O/S and come straight back?

It is not a friend. It is one of his employees. You need to go back and read the topic again.

They asked immigration about doing the extension with an overstay and they said no.

Added to which, if he leaves via a land border, paying his overstay fine, he will have no way of returning to Thailand without a new visa, which he can only get from the consulate handling applications from nationals of Tanzania (identified by the OP as Kenya which seems plausible).

[JackThompson]

10 hours ago, darrendsd said:

... I think the mistake the OP's friend made was going to Immigration without asking for advice either here or somewhere else first, Immigration certainly seem to be going out of their way to make sure he leaves and are showing no flexibility whatsoever

The OP's employee currently has nothing to stamp an extension in.  His having no embassy/consulate here complicates matters further.  Without an ETD, he cannot even travel to Malaysia to pick up his passport, there.

 

Although overstay is sometimes tolerated along with some extensions, I would not expect IOs to "recommend" it.  The only way I could see the odds of the bet being minimized, would be through a well-paid, well-connected agent, who could have received a "pre-clearance" from a contact in Immigration for the overstay + extension, then facilitated processing.  This could have been less expensive than the current course of action. 

 

But, again, how can the OP's employee pick up his passport in Malaysia, with only a "go straight home" document from the MFA?

[ubonjoe]

45 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

The OP's employee currently has nothing to stamp an extension in.  His having no embassy/consulate here complicates matters further.  Without an ETD, he cannot even travel to Malaysia to pick up his passport, there.

I think the original plan was for the embassy in KL to send the passport here.

Apparently the embassy cannot issue a travel document that would allow him to travel anywhere other than to Tanzania. There are many countries that have that policy.

47 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

But, again, how can the OP's employee pick up his passport in Malaysia, with only a "go straight home" document from the MFA?

That is because he ran out of time to get his passport sent to here. All the MFA can issue is a emergency certificate to allow him to leave the country and return home.

[darrendsd]

19 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

I think the original plan was for the embassy in KL to send the passport here.

Apparently the embassy cannot issue a travel document that would allow him to travel anywhere other than to Tanzania. There are many countries that have that policy.

That is because he ran out of time to get his passport sent to here. All the MFA can issue is a emergency certificate to allow him to leave the country and return home.

Which was exactly my point, if his PP was to be sent here he could have visited Immi when it arrived, ask to pay the O/S and ask them to transfer the stamps

 

The worse that could have happened was that they refused and he found himself in exactly the same situation that he finds himself in now

 

At least with the PP he had a chance, doing it the way he did he now has no chance