Word Association (2024)

[webfact]

China says has agreement with Vietnam on managing South China Sea dispute

By Michael Martina and Mai Nguyen

 

China's Foreign Minister Wang Yi (L) is greeted by Vietnam's Deputy Prime Minister and Foreign Minister Pham Binh Minh at the Government Office in Hanoi, Vietnam November 2, 2017. REUTERS/Kham

 

BEIJING/HANOI (Reuters) - China and Vietnam have reached agreement on managing their dispute in the South China Sea through friendly talks, a senior Chinese diplomat said on Friday, following an ugly spat over the summer between the two communist neighbours.

 

The countries have long been at loggerheads over the strategic waterway, through which more than $3 trillion in cargo passes every year, with Vietnam having emerged as the most vocal opponent of China's claims to the majority of the regional sea.

 

A scheduled meeting between their foreign ministers in August was cancelled on the sidelines of a regional gathering in Manila amid an argument about militarization in the South China Sea and island-building.

 

Hanoi and Beijing, however, have sought to get relations back on track, with a top Chinese leader telling his Vietnamese hosts in September that their two communist parties have a "shared destiny".

 

Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi met senior Vietnamese officials in Hanoi this week.

 

Speaking before Chinese President Xi Jinping goes to Vietnam next week for a state visit and to attend a summit of Asia Pacific leaders, Chinese Assistant Foreign Minister Chen Xiaodong said national leaders of the two countries have had many "deep, frank" discussions on maritime issues.

 

"They reached an important consensus," Chen told a news briefing.

 

"Both sides will uphold the principle of friendly consultations and dialogue to jointly manage and control maritime disputes, and protect the bigger picture of developing Sino-Vietnam relations and stability in the South China Sea."

 

Vietnam's Deputy Prime Minister Pham Binh Minh said in a statement late on Thursday that he had proposed in a meeting with Wang that the two countries resolve disputes based on common sense and international law.

 

The latter point is a contentious one in the South China Sea, where Vietnam has long said China's extensive territorial claim has no legal basis.

 

China and Southeast Asian countries are willing and able to handle the South China Sea issue themselves, Chen said, in an oblique reference to the United States, whose comments on the dispute and naval patrols in the waterway have angered Beijing.

 

"We also hope countries outside the region can objectively view positive change in the South China Sea situation, and do more for peace and stability in the region," Chen said.

 

China has appeared uneasy at Vietnamese efforts to rally Southeast Asian countries over the busy swathe of sea as well as at its neighbour's growing defence ties with the United States, Japan and India.

 

In July, under pressure from Beijing, Vietnam suspended oil drilling in offshore waters also claimed by China.

Brunei, Malaysia, the Philippines and Taiwan also claim parts of the South China Sea, and dispute China's contention of sovereignty over most of the waters.

 

China has undertaken more construction and reclamation in the South China Sea, recent satellite images show, and is likely to more powerfully reassert its claims over the waterway soon, regional diplomats and military officers say.

 

Xi is also visiting Laos during his tour, another communist-run county once firmly in Vietnam's orbit, but which is now increasingly close to Beijing and the site of several major Chinese infrastructure projects.

 

(Reporting by Michael Martina in BEIJING and Mai Nguyen in HANOI; Writing by Ben Blanchard; Editing by Tom Hogue)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-11-03

[Juan B Tong]

Yeah right!  

 

China  " It is our sea (all of it ) and all you Vietnamese are really Chinese anyway! "

 

Vietnam. " It is not your sea, we are Vietnamese, Can we talk about it?

Edited November 4, 2017 by Juan B Tong

[Srikcir]

21 hours ago, webfact said:

the two countries resolve disputes based on common sense and international law.

The latter point is a contentious one in the South China Sea, where Vietnam has long said China's extensive territorial claim has no legal basis.

Huh?

So what's the basis for talks?

21 hours ago, webfact said:

China has undertaken more construction and reclamation in the South China Sea, recent satellite images show, and is likely to more powerfully reassert its claims over the waterway soon

 

21 hours ago, webfact said:

n July, under pressure from Beijing, Vietnam suspended oil drilling in offshore waters also claimed by China.

Seems China wants a give & take approach. You give and China takes.

Until Vietnam and the other claimant nations get legal concessions from China, they need the military pressure from the USA to continue.

[natway09]

Another ASEAN breakaway !!! They will sell their soul for a few bucks

[boomerangutang]

Q.  How much does it cost China to make a deal on the Paracel Islands?  

A.  I don't know, but I do know China is willing to pay a lot, including some economic concessions.

 

It sounds quite similar to the China-Phil situation.

 

Both Phil's and VN's know they're getting bullied into losing their islands.  They figure, "well, if we're going to lose them to China, we might as well get as much money and economic concessions as possible."

 

If HRC were prez, the US wouldn't have a leader who sits on a gold toilet and tweets about calling professional sportsmen SOB's and denigrating Gold Star moms.  With HRC, the US would have a leader who was aware of int'l situations, and not afraid to take tough stances. 

[nasanews]

Damn communist Chinese, they are colonizing Asia.

[zydeco]

On 11/3/2017 at 2:58 PM, webfact said:

Hanoi and Beijing, however, have sought to get relations back on track, with a top Chinese leader telling his Vietnamese hosts in September that their two communist parties have a "shared destiny".

Or else.

[tonbridgebrit]

Yes, China and Vietnam must talk to sort out ownership of the South China Sea.  A Far East solution to a Far East problem.


Quote from the article "China and Southeast Asian countries are willing and able to handle the South China Sea issue themselves, Chen said, in an oblique reference to the United States, whose comments on the dispute and naval patrols in the waterway have angered Beijing."
Basically, I do reckon that Washington's presence has become part of the problem, and not a solution to the problem.

[tonbridgebrit]

9 hours ago, Juan B Tong said:

Yeah right!  

 

China  " It is our sea (all of it ) and all you Vietnamese are really Chinese anyway! "

 

Vietnam. " It is not your sea, we are Vietnamese, Can we talk about it?

 

Them Vietnamese in Britain and America, they look the same as them Chinese. That's probably because they are the same.

 

Edited November 4, 2017 by tonbridgebrit

[Morch]

12 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

Them Vietnamese in Britain and America, they look the same as them Chinese. That's probably because they are the same.

 

 

Doubt you'd dare make this statement in Vietnam, or even talking to Vietnamese people...

[tonbridgebrit]

28 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Doubt you'd dare make this statement in Vietnam, or even talking to Vietnamese people...

Morch, in London, okay, you will see a lot of fish and chip shops that have Chinese people working in them, and lots of Chinese Take-Away food shops. Now then, if you start talking to these people, if you get to know them, sometimes, they will say that they are Vietnamese. Most of the fish and chip shops that have Chinese in them, they are Chinese, but some are Vietnamese.

And when them Vietnamese are walking around in London, when or if they are racially abused, they are given the same term that the Chinese get. Them Vietnamese, when racially abused, they don't normally shout out "look, I'm Vietnamese, not Chinese".  That's because they know, in America and Britain (and France as well) , to most people, Vietnamese or Chinese, what difference does it make ?

Okay, if the take-away food shop has "Vietnamese Food Take-Away" and not "Chinese Food Take-Away", then yes, that's when you know they are Vietnamese and not Chinese. There's no other way you can tell. People just simply reckon they are all the same, they're all Chinese.

Edited November 4, 2017 by tonbridgebrit

[Morch]

All this waffle can't be good for you.

 

To recap: After thinking it through, @tonbridgebrit decided, that all things considered, he's better off spewing his pro-PRC propaganda from behind the safety of his screen.

[tonbridgebrit]

1 hour ago, Morch said:

All this waffle can't be good for you.

 

To recap: After thinking it through, @tonbridgebrit decided, that all things considered, he's better off spewing his pro-PRC propaganda from behind the safety of his screen.

Morch, I'm only just trying to respond to what you wrote. I'm only trying to say about what actually happens in London and the rest of Britain. I think it's the same in America and France. You're saying that this 'waffle' is not good for me ? Well, I don't have a problem telling you what the situation in Britain is.
By the way, about 5% of people in Britain will walk pass a Chinese person in the town-centre, and do some 'karate chops' in front of the Chinese person, and then, put their hands together and do a wai (a Thai style wai, even though the British and Chinese person know nothing about the 'wai' in Thailand) and say "ah-saw". And, they don't really care if the person is Chinese or Vietnamese. Basically, people do regard them all to be the same.



Okay, let's get back to China and Vietnam talking about ownership of the South China Sea. Do you, Morch, think that it's a good thing that this is happening ? Some people think that China will simply give economic concessions to Vietnam, and then take over the South China Sea.
Okay, let's say China is actually going to flood Vietnam with Chinese tourists. Beijing has already flooded Pattaya and other parts of Thailand with Chinese tourists, I think they will be able to do the same in Vietnam. And let's say Beijing is willing to allow Vietnamese companies access to the vast China market. Beijing has already allowed MacDonald's, Coca Cola, Apple, Levi Strauss, etc, access to the vast China market. Why not allow Vietnamese companies the same access ? Actually, Beijing can simply say "we will allow Vietnamese companies to continue having access to the vast China market, we guarantee that we will not block Vietnamese goods entering China, we guarantee no trade war with Vietnam".
Let's say, if Beijing is willing to do all this, and in return, they want Vietnam to hand over the South China Sea to Beijing. If Vietnam agrees, surely, that's Vietnam's "freedom of choice" ??
 

[Srikcir]

9 hours ago, tonbridgebrit said:

we guarantee that we will not block Vietnamese goods entering China, we guarantee no trade war with Vietnam".

Getting trade access to China requires under current negotiations for Vietnam is to concede sovereignty for its claim to South Sea resources.  What guarantees China's guarantees?

 

China refutes international law and the International Court when it disfavors China.  Unlike the US that has not conceded any sovereignty in its trade relations with China. Unlike the US that can retaliate economically against China as an Equal trade partner. Vietnam has little political, economic and military strength to affect or reverse China trade policies.

Certainly it's good for Vietnam to resolve its conflicts with China peacefully but it needs a backup plan, a "what if" should any concessions for South Sea resources go "south."

[zydeco]

China is Vietnam's #1 enemy. The Vietnamese have been trying to keep the Chinese out of their country for a thousand years.

[IAMHERE]

18 hours ago, nasanews said:

Damn communist Chinese, they are colonizing Asia.

The original ones went off colonizing before communism was invented , probably before colonizing was invented. Heck, I  thought Chinese were discouraged from colonizing ever since the communist got control of Mainland China.

[tonbridgebrit]

6 hours ago, Srikcir said:

Getting trade access to China requires under current negotiations for Vietnam is to concede sovereignty for its claim to South Sea resources.  What guarantees China's guarantees?

 

China refutes international law and the International Court when it disfavors China.  Unlike the US that has not conceded any sovereignty in its trade relations with China. Unlike the US that can retaliate economically against China as an Equal trade partner. Vietnam has little political, economic and military strength to affect or reverse China trade policies.

Certainly it's good for Vietnam to resolve its conflicts with China peacefully but it needs a backup plan, a "what if" should any concessions for South Sea resources go "south."

What guarantees China's guarantees ?

Well, how about a gradual process ? We sit back, and watch Beijing flood Vietnam with Chinese tourists over the next few years. And we also watch the Vietnamese goods entering China with minimal taxes. During this initial period, Vietnam will not be drilling for oil in the South China Sea, Vietnam will not protest against whatever existing Chinese oil rigs (yes, this includes the Vietnamese government removing any anti-Chinese demonstrations in Vietnam) and, Vietnam allows China to build one or two more islands in Vietnam's "claimed waters".

And then, in five years from now, with Vietnam flooded by Chinese tourists, with Vietnam doing a lot of trade with China (actually, doing 'even more trade' with China) , well, that's when China will be allowed to put up a couple more oil rigs and build another three islands in Vietnam's "claimed waters". And so on. As in, Beijing will continue to flood Vietnam with Chinese tourists, and China will put up more oil rigs and build more islands on a gradual basis.

And so, in twenty years time, there will be about a dozen Chinese oil rigs and another dozen Chinese-built islands in Vietnam's "claimed waters". And yes, Vietnam has spent twenty years being flooded by Chinese tourists, and has spent all that time having access to the 'vast China market'.

Edited November 5, 2017 by tonbridgebrit

[Morch]

 

@tonbridgebrit

 

You haven't responded to what I posted - which had nothing to do with how Asians (sorry, orientals) are perceived (according to you), in London. My post was about your being a keyboard warrior when it comes to the inflammatory comment made earlier - as in you wouldn't dare make  the same comment in Vietnam or to a Vietnamese person's face.

 

Nothing is happening. The PRC says something is happening. They promise this, and guarantee little in return. Whether or not Vietnam chooses this path is yet to be seen, and whether things go smoothly is even farther in the future. That you pronounce all of these as fact, doesn't make it so.

 

Edited November 5, 2017 by Morch

[Morch]

13 minutes ago, tonbridgebrit said:

What guarantees China's guarantees ?

Well, how about a gradual process ? We sit back, and watch Beijing flood Vietnam with Chinese tourists over the next few years. And we also watch the Vietnamese goods entering China with minimal taxes. During this initial period, Vietnam will not be drilling for oil in the South China Sea, Vietnam will not protest against whatever existing Chinese oil rigs (yes, this includes the Vietnamese government removing any anti-Chinese demonstrations in Vietnam) and, Vietnam allows China to build one or two more islands in Vietnam's "claimed waters".

And then, in five years from now, with Vietnam flooded by Chinese tourists, with Vietnam doing a lot of trade with China (actually, doing 'even more trade' with China) , well, that's when China will be allowed to put up a couple more oil rigs and build another three islands in Vietnam's "claimed waters". And so on. As in, Beijing will continue to flood Vietnam with Chinese tourists, and China will put up more oil rigs and build more islands on a gradual basis.

And so, in twenty years time, there will be about a dozen Chinese oil rigs and another dozen Chinese-built islands in Vietnam's "claimed waters". And yes, Vietnam has spent twenty years being flooded by Chinese tourists, and has spent all that time having access to the 'vast China market'.

 

Other than you making this up, what does any of this have to do with reality?

[craigt3365]

9 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

Other than you making this up, what does any of this have to do with reality?

His reality is massively warped.  As proven by his posts. LOL

[Rancid]

In both Africa and Asia China uses a small stick and a large carrot, the US alternatively a large stick only. Is it really any great surprise that the Chinese are gradually winning the war of influence?

[boomerangutang]

In the old days, if a powerful conglomerate wanted to expand its territory, it would wage war.

 

Nowadays, China is pushing outward with a combination of:

>>>  threatened military action

>>>  parlaying economic action (better deals if you play ball, worse deals if you put up resistance).

>>>  Payments.

 

VN and Phil's are dealing with much the same sort of bullying, and both are caving in.  It would be a different dynamic if the US showed it was willing to put its military might behind its SE Asian friends, but Trump either doesn't know the issues, doesn't care, or is asleep at the wheel and too concerned about whether a footballer gets on one knee for 2 minutes before a ball game.

 

HRC wouldn't be asleep at the wheel.  She would be standing by allies in SE Asia.  That's why Chinese and Russians didn't like her.  They would much rather have a dufus with his pie hole filled with chocolate cake and ice cream .....running the US.

[boomerangutang]

2 minutes ago, Rancid said:

In both Africa and Asia China uses a small stick and a large carrot, the US alternatively a large stick only. Is it really any great surprise that the Chinese are gradually winning the war of influence?

You're right.  Also:  Trump and Tillerson are intentionally under-staffing the State Dept.   The US is simply out-of-the-loop in many regions ww.   Trump said, 2 days ago, that only he matters.   He believes he is the only voice worth listening to inside the beltway.  

[zydeco]

52 minutes ago, Rancid said:

In both Africa and Asia China uses a small stick and a large carrot, the US alternatively a large stick only. Is it really any great surprise that the Chinese are gradually winning the war of influence?

I don't believe anything China is doing is sustainable. The price they demand for cooperation is too high. The veiled threats they make, too unsettling. And at home, their economy is a house of cards that will soon collapse and take a huge amount of the world, especially their Asian neighbors, down with them.

(Hey, TVF, what did you do with my mule?  You took my mule. Now, I've had to go with goats.)

[craigt3365]

1 hour ago, Rancid said:

In both Africa and Asia China uses a small stick and a large carrot, the US alternatively a large stick only. Is it really any great surprise that the Chinese are gradually winning the war of influence?

They are winning the war of influence with 3rd world countries because they don't care about the environment, the people, etc.  Just make money and line the pockets of local politicians with it. Why do you think Thailand bought Chinese subs when Germans ones were probably better?  LOL

[craigt3365]

24 minutes ago, zydeco said:

I don't believe anything China is doing is sustainable. The price they demand for cooperation is too high. The veiled threats they make, too unsettling. And at home, their economy is a house of cards that will soon collapse and take a huge amount of the world, especially their Asian neighbors, down with them.

(Hey, TVF, what did you do with my mule?  You took my mule. Now, I've had to go with goats.)

I was just in Sri Lanka.  Many projects there are funded by the Chinese with sky high interest rates.  Under the table payments to politicians.  And total disregard for the environment.  It was splashed all over the local papers when I was there about some project that had been approved, corruption was uncovered, but it continued anyway.  I've read the same thing happening in many countries around the world.

[tonbridgebrit]

3 hours ago, Morch said:

 

@tonbridgebrit

 

You haven't responded to what I posted - which had nothing to do with how Asians (sorry, orientals) are perceived (according to you), in London. My post was about your being a keyboard warrior when it comes to the inflammatory comment made earlier - as in you wouldn't dare make  the same comment in Vietnam or to a Vietnamese person's face.

 

Nothing is happening. The PRC says something is happening. They promise this, and guarantee little in return. Whether or not Vietnam chooses this path is yet to be seen, and whether things go smoothly is even farther in the future. That you pronounce all of these as fact, doesn't make it so.

 

I do actually know a couple of Vietnamese in London.
In both cases, I thought they were Chinese at first. In both cases, after talking a bit, I told them that they looked the same as Chinese, and that I saw them as being the same as Chinese. One of them told me that her ancestors (before her grand-parents) had migrated from China to Vietnam, she was able to say what province in China they was from. Her parents were born in Vietnam, but she wasn't born in Vietnam. Probably England. The other one, he spoke Vietnamese and Cantonese, a Chinese dialect. When he told me he was Vietnamese and not Chinese, I grinned at him. And told him that because he spoke Cantonese (and no, he didn't learn it at school, he spoke it, because his parents talked in both Vietnamese and Cantonese) , well, that's because, his family are actually Chinese who went to Vietnam. He responded by saying that this was a long time ago, before his grand-parents, and he still saw himself as Vietnamese, and not Chinese.


Back to the OP.  Pattaya and the rest of Thailand is already being flooded by Chinese tourists. By the way, I think only about 10% of China's 1.3 billion people have passports to travel outside of China. The growth in Chinese tourists to Thailand during the last ten years (actually, even the last five years) has been massive. Is it really that difficult to imagine that, Vietnam and the Philippines will be a repeat of Thailand ?

And I have no problems if you want to say, that Beijing is using the issue of the Chinese tourists as a carrot (or a weapon) to try and influence other countries.
(only 10% of them have a passport, the percentage might double in the next 10-15 years, that means huge potential for a rise in Chinese tourist numbers in the next decade) .

Edited November 5, 2017 by tonbridgebrit

[tonbridgebrit]

3 hours ago, Rancid said:

In both Africa and Asia China uses a small stick and a large carrot, the US alternatively a large stick only. Is it really any great surprise that the Chinese are gradually winning the war of influence?

+1

Your comparison between Beijing and Washington is, in my opinion, at least partly true. Beijing certainly is winning the war of influence.

Another point is, "Washington is a democracy, Washington has to make it look like that it is trying to spread democracy across planet earth". "Beijing has not been democratically elected, Beijing doesn't have to bother trying to make it look like that it is trying to spread democracy".

I mean, it would be absurd if Beijing was to try and tell planet earth, that it is trying to spread democracy. 


PS. The Vietnamese government doesn't actually have democratic elections. 

Edited November 5, 2017 by tonbridgebrit

[tonbridgebrit]

2 hours ago, craigt3365 said:

They are winning the war of influence with 3rd world countries because they don't care about the environment, the people, etc.  Just make money and line the pockets of local politicians with it. Why do you think Thailand bought Chinese subs when Germans ones were probably better?  LOL

Craigt, IF it was the case that Beijing told Thailand "okay, buy Chinese subs, don't buy the German ones, and China will continue to flood Pattaya and Thailand with Chinese tourists, and if you buy German subs, well, China might restrict the number of Chinese turning up in Thailand".  IF Beijing did actually say that, well, do you reckon that Beijing is wrong ??

The thing is, I think Thailand should be allowed the freedom of choice to go and do what it wants to do. And surely, the same applies to Vietnam and the Philippines. Do you feel the same way ?

You say that my views are warped ? I predict that Thailand buying Chinese subs, and Chinese anything, it's going to continue. It will continue for as long as Chinese tourists are flooding Thailand.

Edited November 5, 2017 by tonbridgebrit

[Morch]

@tonbridgebrit

 

Who you may or may not know in the UK is still irrelevant waffle, and unverifiable waffle at that. Still doubt you'd have the guts to make the sort of comments you do here in Vietnam or to Vietnamese people's faces.

 

The OP isn't about tourism, and the subject isn't even mentioned. More waffle.

 

Edited November 5, 2017 by Morch