EU states see Britain failing to meet Brexit divorce terms

[webfact]

EU states see Britain failing to meet Brexit divorce terms

By Jan Strupczewski and Gabriela Baczynska

 

An anti Brexit protester adjusts his EU flags outside the Houses of Parliament in London, Britain October 19, 2017. REUTERS/Peter Nicholls/Files

 

BRUSSELS (Reuters) - EU envoys discussed on Wednesday delaying into next year the launch of talks with London on a post-Brexit relationship, raising the risk of businesses shifting out of Britain due to lack of clarity on what will happen after March 2019.

 

A meeting of ambassadors from the other 27 EU states had been due to start discussing how to negotiate a transition that would start when Britain quits the bloc in 17 months. But instead, people familiar with the talks told Reuters, the discussion was dominated by concern that London would fail to meet EU conditions next month for opening future negotiations.

 

Once again, lead powers Germany and France insisted British Prime Minister Theresa May agree in principle to pay an exit bill in the tens of billions of euros to Brussels before EU leaders agree to open a second phase of Brexit negotiations on the future relationship. They told May at a summit last month that they were ready to do that when they next meet, on Dec. 14.

 

But British negotiators, who will be in Brussels on Thursday and Friday for more talks on that financial settlement, as well as rights for EU citizens and the Irish border, "should not think they are sailing ahead into the next phase", an EU official familiar with the envoys' discussions said.

 

"While the transition and future relationship were formally on the agenda, what ambassadors focused very much on was real concern that the UK does not realise that the EU27 are deadly serious about the need to meet the 'sufficient progress' mark on the three first-phase issues."

 

With May struggling with the loss of a second scandal-hit cabinet minister in a week, Germany, France and others are ramping up pressure on her to cut a deal in the knowledge that businesses are piling on their own demands for clarity before making investment decisions in the new year.

 

"COME WITH THE MONEY"

 

"The focus was very much on the here and now and the fact that the UK is so far away from meeting the sufficient progress point and that we are rapidly running out of time," the official added. Several diplomats gave similar accounts of the meeting.

 

"We should not be pressured or rushed. They really must come with the money," one senior EU diplomat said.

 

The European Parliament, which must approve any withdrawal treaty, added its voice on Wednesday. Its Brexit coordinator, Guy Verhofstadt said May's suggestion that agreement was close on citizens' rights was wide of the mark and that "major issues" remained unresolved to guarantee rights for EU nationals.

 

The EU official said the ambassadors agreed that without "sufficient progress" on divorce issues in the next month, the talks would simply be extended into 2018 with no discussions on the future -- talks that London is keen to start immediately.

 

"If they don't move until early December, we'll have to think again what to do next," the senior diplomat said. "Then there could be a take it or leave it offer from us, which would clearly not be very nice to Britain and at home they would fall under immense pressure to walk away from the talks."

 

Some Brexit backers in her own government have urged May to walk out without a withdrawal deal, arguing that the EU also has an interest in an orderly split and that the British economy can stand any disruption -- a view not shared by many businesses.

 

Several EU officials said Britain would have to abide by all EU laws in the transition period, even if they are changed during that time, but would have no vote on them. And that such a transition, which both sides have said should last less than two years, might have to be extended to give time for a trade pact.

 

"It's impossible to get any bespoke trade deal in two years or so," said an EU parliament official who deals with Brexit. "And for all that time the UK would be an EU colony -- forced to accept all our laws with no say.

 

"This is what I call a definition of colony."

 

(Editing by Alastair Macdonald and Toby Chopra)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2017-11-09

[petermik]

No you will not rip us off.......

[ExpatOilWorker]

[Guest]

UK government really sounds like it's a teenager, who doesn't know what it actually wants, but wishes to protests in every turn. 

 

The Paradise papers showed a lot of corruption within UK laws to benefit the super rich people. Therefore I can understand why UK people wishes to kick the government's arse. However Brexit will only things worse as there is no longer a larger power to keep the corrupt UK government in place. 

[ilostmypassword]

11 minutes ago, oilinki said:

UK government really sounds like it's a teenager, who doesn't know what it actually wants, but wishes to protests in every turn. 

 

The Paradise papers showed a lot of corruption within UK laws to benefit the super rich people. Therefore I can understand why UK people wishes to kick the government's arse. However Brexit will only things worse as there is no longer a larger power to keep the corrupt UK government in place. 

You're saying something pretty nasty about Germany. You see, Transparency International, the organization that rates nations by corruption, has the UK tied with Germany and Luxembourg for least corrupt nations.

There's no need to use slurs. There are plenty of valid reasons to criticize Brexit and the UK's managing of it.

[ExpatOilWorker]

[alant]

1 hour ago, webfact said:

London would fail to meet EU conditions next month for opening future negotiations.

look deeper and you find the EU is worried they will not be able to protect their restrictive market practices amongst other things.

The EU is failing to negotiate it wishes to bully its way through.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

You're saying something pretty nasty about Germany. You see, Transparency International, the organization that rates nations by corruption, has the UK tied with Germany and Luxembourg for least corrupt nations.

There's no need to use slurs. There are plenty of valid reasons to criticize Brexit and the UK's managing of it.

I see those countries to be only at 10th position. It's likely that the UK rating will go down, once the latests revelations will be included to the corruption index. https://www.transparency.org/news/feature/corruption_perceptions_index_2016

 

The point is that UK and it's territories are willing to give unfair advantages for the super rich. Are you supporting that kind of behavior? I'm certainly not. 

[terryw]

The longer it takes for progress to be made, then each day more aggressive and threatening headlines will be issued by the Europeans. To stay together as a group of 27 they need our money, if they don't get it then the in fighting will be bigger than anything you see in the UK at the moment. 

[ilostmypassword]

10 minutes ago, terryw said:

The longer it takes for progress to be made, then each day more aggressive and threatening headlines will be issued by the Europeans. To stay together as a group of 27 they need our money, if they don't get it then the in fighting will be bigger than anything you see in the UK at the moment. 

How much of a shortfall for the EU's budget do you think is at stake?

[soalbundy]

33 minutes ago, terryw said:

The longer it takes for progress to be made, then each day more aggressive and threatening headlines will be issued by the Europeans. To stay together as a group of 27 they need our money, if they don't get it then the in fighting will be bigger than anything you see in the UK at the moment. 

Our Money ? I don't have a penny in that bundle.

[mercman24]

we saved their asses twice in world wars, ungrateful bar stewards, just send them a bill for double what they are asking us, see how they react to that

[baansgr]

The EU should be asking how much divorce bill they will pay us to continue trading with them and allow their citizens,  that has already been proven are negative contributors  after receiving benefits, to stay. It all seems the erong way round. 

[Guest]

19 minutes ago, mercman24 said:

we saved their asses twice in world wars, ungrateful bar stewards, just send them a bill for double what they are asking us, see how they react to that

Weren't half of the Europe with the Germans, fighting against UK and Russia?

Edited November 9, 2017 by Guest

[sanuk711]

Guys...your beginning to sound like the Americans now......we really didn't have to much option, but to continue fighting on.........

[mfd101]

33 minutes ago, mercman24 said:

we saved their asses twice in world wars, ungrateful bar stewards, just send them a bill for double what they are asking us, see how they react to that

You sound like the New Zealand of my 1950s childhood: We're British you know and anyway we won The War!

[CG1 Blue]

2 hours ago, oilinki said:

The point is that UK and it's territories are willing to give unfair advantages for the super rich. Are you supporting that kind of behavior? I'm certainly not. 

Along with many other countries (do some research).

 

I suggest you also look into how long UK tax havens have existed, and how many different UK governments have been in power during that time. Then you will realise how nonsensical it is to blame this current government.

 

Next perhaps take a look at Luxemburg, that bastion of the EU. US companies alone are hiding over a trillion dollars there. Work that one out!

 

Also, you don't have to be super rich to invest in a fund that takes advantage of low/zero taxes. Go see an IFA for free advice on this.

 

And lastly I'd like to ask you something. If you were chatting to a guy in bar or restaurant and he told you he could help you reduce the amount of tax you pay, legally, would you say to him "no thank you, I'd rather pay more tax"?

 

[Grouse]

48 minutes ago, mercman24 said:

we saved their asses twice in world wars, ungrateful bar stewards, just send them a bill for double what they are asking us, see how they react to that

Pathetic

[baansgr]

Just read they still want benefits paid overseas or else no moving forward. Thats how EU thinks. Their citizens should receive benefits indefinitely  dirrct to kids in Warsaw etc whereas any other nationally should be treated differently. Racist facists thats what the EU is really about as we are beginning to see more each day. 

[terryw]

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

How much of a shortfall for the EU's budget do you think is at stake?

The shortfall is probably about £20 million which is needed by the NHS and other public services.

[Grouse]

The Komodo Cons don't want a deal. So they will storm out blaming EU intransigence.

 

UK is destined to become a low rent low pay low tax offshore economy. This of course will be most harmful to the very people blindly pushing for Brexit. They should be sectioned for self harm.

[ResandePohm]

7 minutes ago, mfd101 said:

You sound like the New Zealand of my 1950s childhood: We're British you know and anyway we won The War!

Britain has got the Government it deserves. They voted them in. Same as the US has Trump. It stikes me the stupid voters for Brexit are now getting what they deserve. Did they really believe that the EU would just let them walk away. What has the war got to do with anything. It was Britains choice to go into both WW1 and WW2 so trying to use that is plain idiotic and besides the war ended more than 70 years ago which is longer than most whining Brits have been alive.

 

Brexit is an enormous disaster for the British economy and it was the Brexiteers who voted for it, so they need to stop trying to blame the EU for their self made dilemma. However it is still not too late as the Brexit vote was never legally binding. The Government, if it had the balls to do it, could still ignore the voting and stay in the EU for the benifit of the country.

[CG1 Blue]

4 hours ago, oilinki said:

However Brexit will only things worse as there is no longer a larger power to keep the corrupt UK government in place. 

Is that the same larger power that has had 20 years of unsatisfactory audits? The same larger power that is run by over paid, under qualified protectionists who are desperate to protect their huge pensions?

 

No thank you.

[Grouse]

3 minutes ago, terryw said:

The shortfall is probably about £20 million which is needed by the NHS and other public services.

20 million? I'll pay it ?

[Grouse]

1 minute ago, CG1 Blue said:

Is that the same larger power that has had 20 years of unsatisfactory audits? The same larger power that is run by over paid, under qualified protectionists who are desperate to protect their huge pensions?

 

No thank you.

Disingenuous. Read up on it

[ilostmypassword]

Just now, terryw said:

The shortfall is probably about £20 million which is needed by the NHS and other public services.

I think it's actually more like 7 billion euros which is not even the size of Germany's Budget surplus. The EU has a total GDP of 14 trillion euros..The EU will manage just fine without the UK's contribution.

And here's an interesting fact. The UK and Portugal were tied for last place in terms of economic growth in the 2nd quarter of 2017.

https://www.ft.com/content/d28f87df-ad13-3f34-974b-2ab436a4f6e8

 

 

[Khun Han]

3 minutes ago, ResandePohm said:

Britain has got the Government it deserves. They voted them in. Same as the US has Trump. It stikes me the stupid voters for Brexit are now getting what they deserve. Did they really believe that the EU would just let them walk away. What has the war got to do with anything. It was Britains choice to go into both WW1 and WW2 so trying to use that is plain idiotic and besides the war ended more than 70 years ago which is longer than most whining Brits have been alive.

 

Brexit is an enormous disaster for the British economy and it was the Brexiteers who voted for it, so they need to stop trying to blame the EU for their self made dilemma. However it is still not too late as the Brexit vote was never legally binding. The Government, if it had the balls to do it, could still ignore the voting and stay in the EU for the benifit of the country.

 

The standard nonsense from someone who is taken in by stupid voters for remain.

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

Is that the same larger power that has had 20 years of unsatisfactory audits? The same larger power that is run by over paid, under qualified protectionists who are desperate to protect their huge pensions?

 

No thank you.

I have no idea what you are talking about? Where did you get this 'information'? Daily Mail, Mirror or any other 'reliable and largely non-biased' media :)

[CG1 Blue]

4 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Disingenuous. Read up on it

I have, plenty

[CG1 Blue]

7 minutes ago, ResandePohm said:

Did they really believe that the EU would just let them walk away.

I think you have delusions of grandeur (assuming you're an EU citizen). 

 

4 minutes ago, Khun Han said:

Brexit is an enormous disaster for the British economy

I disagree.  I think it is more of a disaster for the EU.  The EU should give the UK a good trade deal to avoid their own self destruction.  The UK will prosper either way.