Down under or Thai? Aussie mum trades Oz for Land of Smiles

[selftaopath]

13 hours ago, Credo said:

This is not a nothingburger, it's a groperburger.

But "the family values" (LOL) party doesn't care now..... only when Dems. are in office.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎11‎/‎16‎/‎2017 at 8:42 AM, Samui Bodoh said:

When there are six different women accusing someone of sexual harassment, you should damn well listen!!!

 

The time has come for the Republican party to choose if it is a party that respects women or not. It is bad enough that the "pussy-grabber" was elected leader of the party, but this goes even a step further; a fourteen year-old girl is a GIRL!!!

 

I used to have respect for the Republican party, even though I didn't always agree with it. 

 

Now, what the hell does it stand for if molesting a fourteen year-old girl is okay.

 

Enough!

 

???????????????????????????????

The GOP WANTS him to stand down, but they can't force him to do so till after he is elected.

 

While the case against Moore is not proven, he might as well give in and leave as he will never be accepted if elected. It's mob rule, but that's the way things go sometimes. Life was never fair.

[Rimmer]

An off topic post and reply have been removed

[Thakkar]

42 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

???????????????????????????????

The GOP WANTS him to stand down, but they can't force him to do so till after he is elected.

 

While the case against Moore is not proven, he might as well give in and leave as he will never be accepted if elected. It's mob rule, but that's the way things go sometimes. Life was never fair.

 

To say this is mob rule is to dismiss six rather credible independent accusers, more than two dozen corroborations, some very competent journalism, known predilections of the fellow, the fact that he was barred from the mall as well as the YMCA and his own less than believable interview with Hannity. 

 

While there is not enough evidence against Moore for a criminal conviction, there is more than enough to convince any reasonable person, and *especially* people who claim to be god-fearing, as most Alabamans do, that the man is unsuited for higher office. There is more than reasonable worry that the man would abuse his additional powers as senator to molest even more young women.

 

Mob rule would be if they summarily dragged him off to jail or lynched him on the streets. I don’t see anyone calling for that let alone actually doing it. Not only is there no mob rule, there isn’t even a call to mob rule.

 

Words matter. Using loaded terms to inflame arguments is not helpful, especially in the current climate of Uber partisanship.

 

[selftaopath]

28 minutes ago, Thakkar said:

 

To say this is mob rule is to dismiss six rather credible independent accusers, more than two dozen corroborations, some very competent journalism, known predilections of the fellow, the fact that he was barred from the mall as well as the YMCA and his own less than believable interview with Hannity. 

 

While there is not enough evidence against Moore for a criminal conviction, there is more than enough to convince any reasonable person, and *especially* people who claim to be god-fearing, as most Alabamans do, that the man is unsuited for higher office. There is more than reasonable worry that the man would abuse his additional powers as senator to molest even more young women.

 

Mob rule would be if they summarily dragged him off to jail or lynched him on the streets. I don’t see anyone calling for that let alone actually doing it. Not only is there no mob rule, there isn’t even a call to mob rule.

 

Words matter. Using loaded terms to inflame arguments is not helpful, especially in the current climate of Uber partisanship.

 

Honestly I think Republicans excessively hated that a black man was elected to the highest office in the land they will elect anyone who is White and with an R before their name. They care not a/b country, but I fear their hate based "god feerin" beliefs distort their sense of morality/right/truth etc. They even elected a possible Russian spy. Our country is going to s... and Putin is totally delighted. His hold on 45 is serving him well. 

 

Edited November 19, 2017 by selftaopath
added video

[thaibeachlovers]

8 minutes ago, Thakkar said:

 

To say this is mob rule is to dismiss six rather credible independent accusers, more than two dozen corroborations, some very competent journalism, known predilections of the fellow, the fact that he was barred from the mall as well as the YMCA and his own less than believable interview with Hannity. 

 

While there is not enough evidence against Moore for a criminal conviction, there is more than enough to convince any reasonable person, and *especially* people who claim to be god-fearing, as most Alabamans do, that the man is unsuited for higher office. There is more than reasonable worry that the man would abuse his additional powers as senator to molest even more young women.

 

Mob rule would be if they summarily dragged him off to jail or lynched him on the streets. I don’t see anyone calling for that let alone actually doing it. Not only is there no mob rule, there isn’t even a call to mob rule.

 

Words matter. Using loaded terms to inflame arguments is not helpful, especially in the current climate of Uber partisanship.

 

LOL, she waited 40 years to speak out just at the critical time before a contentious election and no one considers that to be just a teeny bit suspicious . It's not like he hasn't been a politician for years and years. What is the difference this time? Only that he's not wanted in the senate by the GOP.

Seems we heard the same thing before another contentious election a while back, but it didn't work that time.

Seems to me that there's a lot of people very quick to disregard the "innocent till PROVEN guilty" presumption as long as it suits their druthers.

 

I wasn't in the room, so I can't say one way as to truth or not, but one should always remember what happened to Fatty Arbuckle before passing judgement without a proven case.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, selftaopath said:

Honestly I think Republicans excessively hated that a black man was elected to the highest office in the land they will elect anyone who is White and with an R before their name. They care not a/b country, but I fear their hate based "god feerin" beliefs distort their sense of morality/right/truth etc. They even elected a possible Russian spy. Our country is going to s... and Putin is totally delighted. His hold on 45 is serving him well. 

 

This isn't the "I hate Republicans" thread.

Do you have anything on topic to say?

[Thakkar]

17 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

LOL, she waited 40 years to speak out just at the critical time before a contentious election and no one considers that to be just a teeny bit suspicious . It's not like he hasn't been a politician for years and years. What is the difference this time? Only that he's not wanted in the senate by the GOP.

Seems we heard the same thing before another contentious election a while back, but it didn't work that time.

Seems to me that there's a lot of people very quick to disregard the "innocent till PROVEN guilty" presumption as long as it suits their druthers.

 

I wasn't in the room, so I can't say one way as to truth or not, but one should always remember what happened to Fatty Arbuckle before passing judgement without a proven case.

The judgement being asked here is not that of a court, but a personal judgement of individual self-professed Christian Alabaman voters to the suitability of Moore for the high and influential office of Senator.

 

These accusations are not entirely new and did not appear out of nowhere as some sort of political hack job. Rumors about the man’s behavior and predilections had been swirling for decades. Hence the bans from shopping mall and YMCA when he was in his thirties. The national press only became interested and sought out the women, some of whose names were already circulating, when Moore decided to run for national office. They did the job that the small town local press had consistently ignored.

 

And it is not one woman accusing him, it is six (so far).

 

It seems you have softened your “mob rule” accusation to “suspicious” political hack job. I guess that’s progress. ?

[thaibeachlovers]

2 minutes ago, Thakkar said:

The judgement being asked here is not that of a court, but a personal judgement of individual self-professed Christian Alabaman voters to the suitability of Moore for the high and influential office of Senator.

 

These accusations are not entirely new and did not appear out of nowhere as some sort of political hack job. Rumors about the man’s behavior and predilections had been swirling for decades. Hence the bans from shopping mall and YMCA when he was in his thirties. The national press only became interested and sought out the women, some of whose names were already circulating, when Moore decided to run for national office. They did the job that the small town local press had consistently ignored.

 

And it is not one woman accusing him, it is six (so far).

 

It seems you have softened your “mob rule” accusation to “suspicious” political hack job. I guess that’s progress. ?

No, it's still mob rule.

We'll see if he does not stand down what the only people that count ( Alabama voters ) think soon enough.

[Thakkar]

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

No, it's still mob rule.

We'll see if he does not stand down what the only people that count ( Alabama voters ) think soon enough.

If this is mob rule, then all criticism is mob rule. Used this way, the term retains no useful meaning.

[thaibeachlovers]

12 hours ago, Thakkar said:

If this is mob rule, then all criticism is mob rule. Used this way, the term retains no useful meaning.

Only truth counts. I wasn't there, so I don't know, but I'm not running around  accusing him of heinous activities.  Criticise away to your heart's content, but it's meaningless in the broad context.  Seems you don't remember what  happened to Fatty Arbuckle. Could do worse than to find out.

 

I'm ashamed to say that when Bill Clinton was being impeached I believed the lies being put out that he was a good guy and the accusers were just trailer trash and deserved it. I won't make that mistake again with someone else. This is just the same old stuff at the moment, as no one has had their day in court.

[Thakkar]

11 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Only truth counts. I wasn't there, so I don't know, but I'm not running around  accusing him of heinous activities.

Criticise away to your heart's content, but it's meaningless in the broad context.

Seems you don't remember what happened to Fatty Arbuckle. Could do worse than to find out.

 

I'm ashamed to say that when Bill Clinton was being impeached I believed the lies being put out that he was a good guy and the accusers were just trailer trash and deserved it. I won't make that mistake again with someone else. This is just the same old stuff at the moment, as no one has had their day in court.

“Only truth counts”

 

In any court, but especially in the court of public opinion, Credibility also counts. His accusers (nine to date, not six as I’d earlier said), especially as they are backed up by circumstantial facts, sound credible. His denials do not.  

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, Thakkar said:

“Only truth counts”

 

In any court, but especially in the court of public opinion, Credibility also counts. His accusers (nine to date, not six as I’d earlier said), especially as they are backed up by circumstantial facts, sound credible. His denials do not.  

Two courts couldn't decide if Fatty was guilty or not, so the accusations against him were also "credible". Of course they were just lies.

If I were to be judged on some of the things I've said, as opposed to done, I'd be guilty of something in the court of public opinion, as would we all.

Personally, I don't know or care about the man, but the lynch mob mentality disturbs me. Too many innocent people have gone down to the mob for me to accept it. Remember Lindy Chamberlain?

In most cases a guilty person displays the criminal behaviour over their entire life. It's not usual for them to just stop. There's almost always a "trail" that follows them.

Like I said, I don't know if he's guilty or not, but the law says innocent till PROVEN guilty. Either we accept that or it's chaos. Seems like chaos is winning at the moment.

[Thakkar]

12 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Two courts couldn't decide if Fatty was guilty or not, so the accusations against him were also "credible". Of course they were just lies.

If I were to be judged on some of the things I've said, as opposed to done, I'd be guilty of something in the court of public opinion, as would we all.

Personally, I don't know or care about the man, but the lynch mob mentality disturbs me. Too many innocent people have gone down to the mob for me to accept it. Remember Lindy Chamberlain?

In most cases a guilty person displays the criminal behaviour over their entire life. It's not usual for them to just stop. There's almost always a "trail" that follows them.

Like I said, I don't know if he's guilty or not, but the law says innocent till PROVEN guilty. Either we accept that or it's chaos. Seems like chaos is winning at the moment.

There is no chaos. There are nine fairly credible accusations. There are two dozen reasonable corroborations. There is competent investigative journalism (read the original Wapo article and follow ups and you can judge by yourself). There are circumstantial facts such as Moore’s ban from the mall and the YMCA. Then there is his own less than credible denials on Hannity and elsewhere. There is also his forged letter of support from evangelical pastors that the pastors have said is an old letter that’s been repurposed.

 

By law he is allowed to continue his candidacy and is doing so. There is no chaos. There is no mob rule. He is not being dragged off to jail, he is not being lynched, stoned or even spat at.

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, Thakkar said:

There is no chaos. There are nine fairly credible accusations. There are two dozen reasonable corroborations. There is competent investigative journalism (read the original Wapo article and follow ups and you can judge by yourself). There are circumstantial facts such as Moore’s ban from the mall and the YMCA. Then there is his own less than credible denials on Hannity and elsewhere. There is also his forged letter of support from evangelical pastors that the pastors have said is an old letter that’s been repurposed.

 

By law he is allowed to continue his candidacy and is doing so. There is no chaos. There is no mob rule. He is not being dragged off to jail, he is not being lynched, stoned or even spat at.

But he has not been charged for what are criminal offenses- WHY NOT? If the evidence exists, he should be.

Mob rule does not always imply lynching or stoning.

 

There's hundreds of politicians and influential people in the US, ( and some in my country ) that should be dragged out and shamed, but of all the politicians in the US, it's just him, at the moment. That's why I refer to it as mob rule, because next week it'll be someone else that the powers that be decide to persecute ( last week it was Harvey )- perhaps mob mentality describes it better. 

Anyway, it's all orchestrated by the media and the mob just accepts it without question, but even the French Terror had to be stopped when they realised they were all going to get the chop, and that was the best mob rule going, so far.

[Thakkar]

22 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

But he has not been charged for what are criminal offenses- WHY NOT? If the evidence exists, he should be.

Mob rule does not always imply lynching or stoning.

 

There's hundreds of politicians and influential people in the US, ( and some in my country ) that should be dragged out and shamed, but of all the politicians in the US, it's just him, at the moment. That's why I refer to it as mob rule, because next week it'll be someone else that the powers that be decide to persecute ( last week it was Harvey )- perhaps mob mentality describes it better. 

Anyway, it's all orchestrated by the media and the mob just accepts it without question, but even the French Terror had to be stopped when they realised they were all going to get the chop, and that was the best mob rule going, so far.

The wheels of justice grind slow, as they should. Only one of the nine accusations is beyond the statute of limitation because it involves a minor. That accusation is two weeks old. We don’t know if an investigation has begun. Seeing as the alleged incident occurred forty years ago, there may never be enough evidence to convict Moore in a court of law. But who knows, a competent investigation may uncover more recent crimes. Time will tell.

 

It’s not just Moore being accused of sexual misconduct, it’s others as well, like Sitting Senator Al Franken, whose presidential ambitions are pretty much dead in the water. There was also Anthony Weiner, whose political career was finished and who is now rightly in jail. There’s Bill Clinton who was impeached, disbarred and fined. There’s 

Mark Foley who was forced to resign.

 

No Mob mentality either. Victims came forward. Most people are of the view that Their stories are credible, and that his denials are not. For the purpose of this election, only Alabamans’ view count and, according to polls, that view is rapidly shifting to believing the victims. He may yet win, not necessarily because Alabamans believe his denials, but because this is deep red Alabama and his opponent is (gasp!) a Democrat.

[Jingthing]

Franken's offense at least so far doesn't even come close to rising as being comparable to others on that list. I do agree about his presidential ambitions being dead.

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[sirineou]

1 minute ago, Jingthing said:

Franken's offense at least so far doesn't even come close to rising as being comparable to others on that list. I do agree about his presidential ambitions being dead.

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Franken's behaviour was juvenile and insensitive but to put it in perspective , at the time, he was a Comedian , on a entertaiment assignment. 

Imagine that, comedians acting juvenile ! If he was serious  he certainly would not have taken a picture doing it. and smiling for the camera.

[Jingthing]

I don't think he should quit the senate either. He's owned up to his mistake like a real man so unlike the baby man president who of course has done much much worse multiple times.

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[Thakkar]

21 minutes ago, sirineou said:

30 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

Franken's offense at least so far doesn't even come close to rising as being comparable to others on that list. I do agree about his presidential ambitions being dead.

Sent from my Lenovo A7020a48 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Franken's behaviour was juvenile and insensitive but to put it in perspective , at the time, he was a Comedian , on a entertaiment assignment. 

Imagine that, comedians acting juvenile ! If he was serious  he certainly would not have taken a picture doing it. and smiling for the camera.

 

The larger issue unfolding is not just about the relative severity of the sexual harassment, or debasement of the other. It is an exposé of abusive power dynamics. In all instances, whether Franken, Roy Moore or Kevin Spacey or others (though, like you, I am loath to lump them all together, because that framing implies a reduction in severity of the latter two, or conversely, a greater, perhaps undeserved severity for the former) it is a situation of a more powerful person abusing their position to disrespect the personal space, wants, feelings of the less powerful. 

 

What’s happening is that that kind of abuse of power is going to be less tolerated by individuals, and by society at large.

 

As this plays out, there will undoubtedly be collateral damage, and people who may deserve a slap on the wrist may be punished more harshly by society than they deserve. That’s unfortunate and is in  the nature of big societal shifts. But all people with lesser power will be less vulnerable than they  once were. That’s progress.

[Thakkar]

15 minutes ago, Jingthing said:

I don't think he should quit the senate either. He's owned up to his mistake like a real man so unlike the baby man president who of course has done much much worse multiple times.

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It’s out of his hands. Public pressure (or lack of) will make that decision for him. I think that Unlike Trump Franken is sensitive to public opinion, including those of his detractors.

[Jingthing]

It’s out of his hands. Public pressure (or lack of) will make that decision for him. I think that Unlike Trump Franken is sensitive to public opinion, including those of his detractors.

I disagree. I think it's already obvious that Franken won't be hounded out of the senate. It's time to confront trump.

 

I also don't think that Franken really ever wanted to run for president anyway. Others did.

 

Of course if other reports come to light the situation would change.

 

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[sirineou]

1 minute ago, Thakkar said:

 

The larger issue unfolding is not just about the relative severity of the sexual harassment, or debasement of the other. It is an exposé of abusive power dynamics. In all instances, whether Franken, Roy Moore or Kevin Spacey or others (though, like you, I am loath to lump them all together, because that framing implies a reduction in severity of the latter two, or conversely, a greater, perhaps undeserved severity for the former) it is a situation of a more powerful person abusing their position to disrespect the personal space, wants, feelings of the less powerful. 

 

What’s happening is that that kind of abuse of power is going to be less tolerated by individuals, and by society at large.

 

As this plays out, there will undoubtedly be collateral damage, and people who may deserve a slap on the wrist may be punished more harshly by society than they deserve. That’s unfortunate and is in  the nature of big societal shifts. But all people with lesser power will be less vulnerable than they  once were. That’s progress.

 I agree

There was a time where drinking and driving was more pervasive  because of the cultivation of the "lovable drunk" culture.   Remember Dean Martin, , Foster Brooks and other comedians on TV?  We all thought it was funny, until a loved one got killed. It was only as awareness increased do to the efforts of activists   that the culture changed.  And there was resistance as it always is. 

  Though we will not equate the behaviour of the alcoholic who drives drunk every night with the occasional party  drunk , the person killed by either one of them is just as dead. 

 I think much of the same is playing out here. The tolerance of the "locker room" culture needs to be addressed, and the" boys will be boys"  attitude modified to "Boys need to grow Up "

[amvet]

5 minutes ago, sirineou said:

 I agree

There was a time where drinking and driving was more pervasive  because of the cultivation of the "lovable drunk" culture.   Remember Dean Martin, , Foster Brooks and other comedians on TV?  We all thought it was funny, until a loved one got killed. It was only as awareness increased do to the efforts of activists   that the culture changed.  And there was resistance as it always is. 

  Though we will not equate the behaviour of the alcoholic who drives drunk every night with the occasional party  drunk , the person killed by either one of them is just as dead. 

 I think much of the same is playing out here. The tolerance of the "locker room" culture needs to be addressed, and the" boys will be boys"  attitude modified to "Boys need to grow Up "

Who recently shamelessly abandoned feminist principle, smearing victims and blithely ignoring his most credible accusers, all because Republicans funded the investigations and they’re prudes and it’s all just Sexual McCarthyism — feels in the cold clarity of hindsight like a great act of partisan deformation.  Karma.  It has come back to haunt all of us.  

[sirineou]

3 minutes ago, amvet said:

Who recently shamelessly abandoned feminist principle, smearing victims and blithely ignoring his most credible accusers, all because Republicans funded the investigations and they’re prudes and it’s all just Sexual McCarthyism — feels in the cold clarity of hindsight like a great act of partisan deformation.  Karma.  It has come back to haunt all of us.  

Yea,

both Trump and Hillary were and are poisoned vessels . Anyone who put their dreams and aspirations in those vessels were and are disappointed Both are people who ascribe to the "end Justifies the means" philosophy , certainly a slippery slope.

Perhaps next round we will take better care where we put our dreams.   

[selftaopath]

12 hours ago, Thakkar said:

 

The larger issue unfolding is not just about the relative severity of the sexual harassment, or debasement of the other. It is an exposé of abusive power dynamics. In all instances, whether Franken, Roy Moore or Kevin Spacey or others (though, like you, I am loath to lump them all together, because that framing implies a reduction in severity of the latter two, or conversely, a greater, perhaps undeserved severity for the former) it is a situation of a more powerful person abusing their position to disrespect the personal space, wants, feelings of the less powerful. 

 

What’s happening is that that kind of abuse of power is going to be less tolerated by individuals, and by society at large.

 

As this plays out, there will undoubtedly be collateral damage, and people who may deserve a slap on the wrist may be punished more harshly by society than they deserve. That’s unfortunate and is in  the nature of big societal shifts. But all people with lesser power will be less vulnerable than they  once were. That’s progress.

I hope 45 gets EVERYTHING he deserves. 

[selftaopath]

This is how a genuine leader thinks, and sound like. I posted b/f Obama was finished speaking and the reverend started. That wasn't my intention to seem "religious" b/c I'm not. Cheers.

 

Edited November 20, 2017 by selftaopath
Point of clarification.

[Thakkar]

1 hour ago, selftaopath said:

This is how a genuine leader thinks, and sound like. I posted b/f Obama was finished speaking and the reverend started. That wasn't my intention to seem "religious" b/c I'm not. Cheers.

 

When Obama said, “the Republicans have been riding that tiger for a while...”

 

I was reminded of a limerick that is appropriate to what has happened to the GOP:

There was a young lady of Riga

Who smiled as she rode on a tiger;

They returned from the ride

With the lady inside,

And the smile on the face of the tiger.

[selftaopath]

10 hours ago, Thakkar said:

When Obama said, “the Republicans have been riding that tiger for a while...”

 

I was reminded of a limerick that is appropriate to what has happened to the GOP:

There was a young lady of Riga

Who smiled as she rode on a tiger;

They returned from the ride

With the lady inside,

And the smile on the face of the tiger.

Thanks for that.

45 tarnishes EVERYTHING he comes in contact with. It's now the GOP's turn. Ironically I'm curious when it will be Russia's turn?

 

I

[lannarebirth]

On 11/19/2017 at 4:23 AM, amvet said:

Who recently shamelessly abandoned feminist principle, smearing victims and blithely ignoring his most credible accusers, all because Republicans funded the investigations and they’re prudes and it’s all just Sexual McCarthyism — feels in the cold clarity of hindsight like a great act of partisan deformation.  Karma.  It has come back to haunt all of us.  

 

She seems drawn to unscrupulous predatory types: