The Worst Change In Los

[jasreeve17]

Let me start by saying this is not a Thai bashing thread.

Of course I like the country and the people and thus I choose to live here. I prefer it here to being in London (my hometown), where it has really changed in the last 20 years, and not for the better in my opinion.

But it's changed here too.

Jet Gordon's thread of your favourite memory made me think, why are they often memories and not realities?

Developement / Money / Migration / Natural change, and many more factors all effect how a country evolves. It's natural, and not wrong of the Thais to want to financially benefit and better their lives. But which loss, which holiday spot turning to a concrete jungle, which... anything hits a nerve with you?

I'll start: Chawang beach on Samui had a great atmosphere with wooden huts, relaxing clubs going til 6am and very nice friendly people. It was in 1992 that I went there. Lamai wasn't a place really (only 4 little restaurants if I remember correctly) and Samui wasn't busy either. Only one atm was on chawang road and apart from a couple of nice resorts I don't remember any concrete at all. It was lovely.

I went back in 2005, really looking forward to a couple of weeks holiday after working in Bangkok all year; it was awful. Concrete everywhere. I didn't even allow the taxi to stop I just headed on to Lamai, which was OKish.. I came home to Bangkok after a week. I know that everything is ever-changing, and I hate the hippie style "oh when I first went to this undiscovered beach, man..." But I do miss the old style Samui. Or maybe I was just younger and less cynical?

What do you miss?

[jbowman1993]

This should get....stupid, really quick I bet.

[cdnvic]

Thai kids getting more materialistic and shallow, and losing touch with the culture that used to keep their excesses in balance. Same thing has happened in the west but I think the effect will be worse on a country that is still developing.

[jackr]

Let me start by saying this is not a Thai bashing thread.

Of course I like the country and the people and thus I choose to live here. I prefer it here to being in London (my hometown), where it has really changed in the last 20 years, and not for the better in my opinion.

But it's changed here too.

Jet Gordon's thread of your favourite memory made me think, why are they often memories and not realities?

Developement / Money / Migration / Natural change, and many more factors all effect how a country evolves. It's natural, and not wrong of the Thais to want to financially benefit and better their lives. But which loss, which holiday spot turning to a concrete jungle, which... anything hits a nerve with you?

I'll start: Chawang beach on Samui had a great atmosphere with wooden huts, relaxing clubs going til 6am and very nice friendly people. It was in 1992 that I went there. Lamai wasn't a place really (only 4 little restaurants if I remember correctly) and Samui wasn't busy either. Only one atm was on chawang road and apart from a couple of nice resorts I don't remember any concrete at all. It was lovely.

I went back in 2005, really looking forward to a couple of weeks holiday after working in Bangkok all year; it was awful. Concrete everywhere. I didn't even allow the taxi to stop I just headed on to Lamai, which was OKish.. I came home to Bangkok after a week. I know that everything is ever-changing, and I hate the hippie style "oh when I first went to this undiscovered beach, man..." But I do miss the old style Samui. Or maybe I was just younger and less cynical?

What do you miss?

Places often appear better than they were with or without change... it's one big mind <deleted>.

[Neeranam]

I'll start: Chawang beach on Samui had a great atmosphere with wooden huts, relaxing clubs going til 6am and very nice friendly people. It was in 1992 that I went there. Lamai wasn't a place really (only 4 little restaurants if I remember correctly) and Samui wasn't busy either. Only one atm was on chawang road and apart from a couple of nice resorts I don't remember any concrete at all. It was lovely.

I went back in 2005, really looking forward to a couple of weeks holiday after working in Bangkok all year; it was awful. Concrete everywhere. I didn't even allow the taxi to stop I just headed on to Lamai, which was OKish.. I came home to Bangkok after a week. I know that everything is ever-changing, and I hate the hippie style "oh when I first went to this undiscovered beach, man..." But I do miss the old style Samui. Or maybe I was just younger and less cynical?

After spending some time in Goa, India and hearing all these middle-aged hippies go on about how it had been ruined, I went to Samui too in 1992. The Koh Pa Ngan(a short boat trip away)I found was paradise. I'm sure I'll sound like a boring old fart saying that Thailand used to be a lot better. I lived on Koh Pa Ngan for a couple of months and didn't even have electricity in my bungalow a short walk from the beach(50 baht a night). There were only 2 bar/restaurants along Haad Rin beach, and 1 night club. Thailand used to be more fun for me, or maybe I just think it was - maybe because I was single, always stoned and had no responsibilities.

Good post - I don't think I'll ever go back to Koh PN, as I'd probably hate it.

Thailand has changed, I have changed, thank God for change. In 10 years time I'll be saying that now was a totally amazing time, often I just can see it. We remember the good, forget the not so good. If I want another unspoilt beach, I'll have to get off my arse and be a bit more adventurous, like I used to be when in my 20's. The good things in life become commonplace after a while - that new car that I was over the moon about a few months ago seems old now. The beautiful young girl I married seems bigger now, the great weather that I've been living in for years seems too hot, or rather too cold now etc. I have to remind myself everyday about the way things used to be to get any degree of gratitude about my situation now.

[Pattayaman]

Property developers mostly farangs builing housing estates in nice quiet villages ,the reason i left thialand in December permanantly after 6 years .

[farangsay]

This should get....stupid, really quick I bet.

No , it will be good old days stuff about when you could

get a beach bungalow for 20b and some love and affection

for 50b interspersed with kiddy rants.

It will stay intelligent.

Trust me.

[Jet Gorgon]

Nice one, Jasreeve!

I did a flythough in 1991, but it wasn't til I came back in 1995 that I really got the feel for Thailand. Beautiful tiny wooden bungalow with a rock corbel in the bathroom and a huge balcony for sunset viewing. Bt3,000 a month. And it came with a dog. Restaurants and bars welcomed whatever four-leggers I had in tow. Remember monsoon evenings wearing five sweashirts, leggings, a geek poncho, and (horror) socks in my flipflops, and watching a movie doubleheader while eating padthai and drinking Singha for Bt30 a pop. Everyone shared their table. Full moon parties were filled with fire baton twirlers and performers, and revellers in crazy costumes. I painted techno dancers with glo paints in Vinyl club; they always bought me a drink.

Sending notes by long-tail boat.

My bungalow did get burgled Christmas Eve 1995, but no vandalism. They took my most prized possession: a bottle of French wine I splurged on for the next day. They did leave me an electrical plug in exchange. ###### party bandits.

Weekly errands in Nathon and shopping at SanPhet for farang stuff that was always way past the sell by date. Nobody cared.

The package tourists, bless their bankrolls, arrived. I say hi to them and the women grab their purses like I'm gonna mug them. Get away dog! Get outta my way! Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera.

[Vespa]

Koh Samui to Koh Pi Pi and even Phuket are now toilets.

I remember when they were actually places to visit and chill out.

Samui before the airport was delight , I mean really, There was a place there called the Rolling Stoned bar where people were laying around smoking killer Thai sticks , no fear of arrest or extortion.

Now they are dumb novice tourist spots.

Edited January 13, 2007 by Vespa

[Tony Clifton]

Thai kids getting more materialistic and shallow, and losing touch with the culture that used to keep their excesses in balance. Same thing has happened in the west but I think the effect will be worse on a country that is still developing.

So true and sad.

[qualtrough]

Ok its arrogant, but I miss the days when there were not so many farangs around. I am a farang, and it is not that I don't like them, but when the concentration gets too high in an area it loses the Thai qualities that made it interesting in the first place. Despite having lived here off and on since 1980 I visited Phuket for the first time last year. I had a good time, but there were places there that were just overrun with tourists and Thais were the minority.

Samui:In 81-82. Had to make a phone call to Bangkok. Only way to do that was to go to the Samui Post Office between 1-3pm and have them patch you in to a phone line via ham radio! Visited Cha Am about the same time. Sleepy place, had the beach to ourselves at night, shared it with maybe 6 people during the day. Stopped by on the way back from Prachuab about 5 years ago. A nightmare, could not even see the beach for the people. Didn't even stop.

Now having said that, when I was on Samui back then there were people telling me it was ruined and that I should have been there 5 years earlier....

[chanchao]

For me I can only think of one thing that stands out: The loss of democracy and with that the loss of political stability and international recognition as a modern nation. I'll leave it up to each and everyone's political persuasions to decide for yourselves if this loss happened in September last year, or gradually during the last few years under the previous PM, or that it was all merely a democratic facade from the get-go; take your pick. But the result is that Thailand is not (and perhaps never was) a nation to bet your life on, to make serious investments in, or make a living in long term.

A lot of the posts above seem to deal with a particular place that changed. I'd say that's only natural; you can't expect to go back to Paradise-X and expect it to have stayed the same; you will need to go find your current paradise.. Same with 'too many farangs'. Where, Sukhumvit? Chiang Mai even? Sure.

Cheers,

Chanchao

Edited January 13, 2007 by chanchao

[chanchao]

Thai kids getting more materialistic and shallow, and losing touch with the culture that used to keep their excesses in balance. Same thing has happened in the west but I think the effect will be worse on a country that is still developing.

Can't say I disagree, but your post did bring this little thingy to mind, photographed off the wall of the Empower NGO office:

( http://shw.fotopages.com/12174187/Sign-of-the-times.html )

And besides, some changes are arguably for the better.. I'm sure some recall how popular the 'no sex before marriage' rule was with Thai women... You don't hear a lot about that anymore..

Edited January 13, 2007 by chanchao

[rtaxron]

Never go back to where you had happier younger memory's, its never the same !!!!!!

[jomama]

But the result is that Thailand is not (and perhaps never was) a nation to bet your life on, to make serious investments in, or make a living in long term.

Cheers,

Chanchao

Spot on Chanchao. I believe that so much that I pulled up all the roots I had in Thailand and moved to Beijing with my wife last week. Far more opportunity. Yesterday we walked about 15 kilometers -- not the shattered sidewalks of Thailand, but wide, smooth, massive sidewalks.

I spent 15 years working in Thailand and finally came to realize that everything was built on sand. There's almost nothing one can do that is "correct" -- Thais are always insulted, always have a drama. The only way to get by is not strive for excellence and walk around with a vapid smile on your face.

They had a h*ll of a chance during the Vietnam Era when the rest of the region was closed. But instead of taking advantage of that head start and investing in their people they just went on like usual, fighting and squabbling over who gets to carve up the spoils. Now they can't compete on the low end against Vietnam and China (where the folks are actually willing to work hard) and they don't have the work force and work culture to become a developed country. And they're trying even harder to chase away foreigners and foreign investment. It's crazy. And where the Thai arrogance comes from is way beyond me.

None of this bodes well for the future.

[mogoso]

For me I can only think of one thing that stands out: The loss of democracy and with that the loss of political stability and international recognition as a modern nation. I'll leave it up to each and everyone's political persuasions to decide for yourselves if this loss happened in September last year, or gradually during the last few years under the previous PM, or that it was all merely a democratic facade from the get-go; take your pick. But the result is that Thailand is not (and perhaps never was) a nation to bet your life on, to make serious investments in, or make a living in long term.

A lot of the posts above seem to deal with a particular place that changed. I'd say that's only natural; you can't expect to go back to Paradise-X and expect it to have stayed the same; you will need to go find your current paradise.. Same with 'too many farangs'. Where, Sukhumvit? Chiang Mai even? Sure.

Cheers,

Chanchao

"you don't know what you've lost till it's gone

they've paved paradise and put in a parking lot" joni mitchell

[tropo]

Koh Samui to Koh Pi Pi and even Phuket are now toilets.

I remember when they were actually places to visit and chill out.

Samui before the airport was delight , I mean really, There was a place there called the Rolling Stoned bar where people were laying around smoking killer Thai sticks , no fear of arrest or extortion.

Now they are dumb novice tourist spots.

It's probably time for you to find some uninhabited beach somewhere. I'm sure there are plenty left.

You should understand that if you find a place great, many others will too.

Calling these places toilets is merely insulting the mass of tourists who enjoy them.

Some tourists enjoy all the modern conveniences and luxuries of home...it doesn't make them "novice" or "dumb".

I enjoy living in Pattaya. I must be a dumb novice living in a toilet?

I don't enjoy "roughing" it. My days of sleeping in grass huts are over.

Edited January 14, 2007 by tropo

[terry57]

well, to be truthful it dont worry me as you are deluding yourself to wallow in the past.

i like to think how lucky i was to expierience these places in the early days and have fantastic memory's of those days especially bali in 1979.

when i go back to these places today i still see young people having a ball and as far as im concerned, that what its all about.

i fit in with how things are today and get on with it.

i was in beijing last year and cant see what the attraction is over bangkok, but everyone to there own i suppose but you will most probly feel the same about beijing in a few years.

give me thailand anyday and i say go with the flow and change with the changes.

[KireB]

Sounds like most of you think that everything in the past was better!

It's like I hear my grandma talking!

[chuck6660]

Ok its arrogant, but I miss the days when there were not so many farangs around. I am a farang, and it is not that I don't like them, but when the concentration gets too high in an area it loses the Thai qualities that made it interesting in the first place.

Yes it is arrogant...if you leave there won't be as many "farangs"!

[peter991]

There have been quite a few obvious changes in the 6 years I have been coming to Thailand. I guess the change I dislike the most has to be the proliferation of mobile phones. It seems even the poorest Thais think they need a mobile phone to keep in touch.

The materialism that other posters talk about seems more obvious now too - blame that on Western TV programmes.

Peter

[naka]

First worked in Bankok in 74 for a multinational. The company had a real hard time

getting folks to go work there in those days, so they put the 'hard word' on me,

the most junior suitable employee at the time.

Anyway it was boring, best fun I had was to meet up with the

US servicemen on R&R. They had their own military owned R&R hotels in BKK at the time.

These were about the only places in town where you could get a good steak

and cold beer (Singha in those days was horrible) for reasonable prices, and they were lots of fun.

Went to Hua Hin for the first time in 75 (by train) and it was ultra boring. Only decent hotel in town

was the old Railway Hotel, and what a dump that was. Nothing to do but walk up and down the deserted beach. A sun glass vendor would have been a welcome distraction.

Went to Chian Mai for the first time in 75 ... same Hua Hin but without the distraction of the beach.

Caught the bus out after two nights.

Went to Pattaya for the first time in 76 and it was boring, 4 hour drive fom BKK over dangerous

single lane dusty dirt roads. And then more dusty dirt roads after arrival. Only beach road existed then

and it was a deserted dirt strip. They did have one water ski for hire though.

Went to Phuket for the first time in 78 (by bus from BKK ... Aargh !) and it was boring. This was before there was a Bangla road. Almost impossible to get a good clean meal in those days.

Good old days, Bah! Nowhere could you get an ice cream, no milk, no cheese, no beef,

no decent coffee, nothing.

Only beer was Signha and Amarit, both bad in those days and very, very expensive since

no Thais ever drank beer then.

Come to think of it, there was one benefit. You could always score a little toke

when you were bored shilless !

Now I love it all !

Naka.

Edited January 14, 2007 by naka

[pampal]

I don't like the militarization of Thailand.

I don't necessarily mean the coup de etat, but the military presence that I see and feel everywhere I go these days.

Two days ago as I was riding my bike, I saw a Cobra gunship followed by a Huey, and then a military convoy passed me. I was near Khao San Rd.

It looked like a scene from Iraq, not very friendly.

[ilyushin]

Know it all farangs who after a few years in country are self proclaimed experts.

[Ulysses G.]

I hated when all these pushy, puritanical farangs started showing up here and trying to change Thailand into Alabama!

[cdnvic]

I hated when all these pushy, puritanical farangs started showing up here and trying to change Thailand into Alabama!

Yeah, the kids in Alabama schools can't read or write in English either.

[Neeranam]

I enjoy living in Pattaya. I must be a dumb novice living in a toilet?

[Ulysses G.]

I hated when all these pushy, puritanical farangs started showing up here and trying to change Thailand into Alabama!

Yeah, the kids in Alabama schools can't read or write in English either.

Not in Macon County anyway.

[Johpa]

Samui before the airport was delight , I mean really, There was a place there called the Rolling Stoned bar where people were laying around smoking killer Thai sticks , no fear of arrest or extortion.

Now they are dumb novice tourist spots.

Wow, what a choice, dumb novice tourists or, what shall we call them, dumb professional tourists who lie around stoned into oblivion on Thai stick.

I use to visit Samui on a regular basis years before they built the airport. Fortunately I never found the Rolling Stone bar. I don't even remember there being any bars on Chaweng in the early years. But we would walk down to Munchies once or twice a week for those famous omlettes.

[Pakboong]

I first arrived in Thailand in 1973 and there were very few motorbikes. You could drive from Sattahip to Bangkok and see very few cars and no motorbikes. The Coral Reef restaurant in Pattaya was among my favorite dining experiences. The military rate at the Dusit Thani was $27 a night and pure luxury.