University Lecturership and Work Permit

[waheedz]

Hello There,

I am a final year PhD researcher in UK and planning to join a Thai University as a Lecturer upon completion of the course. I am confused regarding the work permit requirements as well as the process to start looking for a job - should I contact headhunting companies in Thailand or should I apply directly to the Thai Universtities? Also, can anyone suggest from their experience that 'how difficult' it might be to get a job in a Thai Uni without having any knowledge of the Thai Language? I am targeting Business Schools for the job application.

Thanks a lot.

[wotsdermatter]

Nobody can really offer any help as, first, you have not specified the programme, not course, in which you are a Doctoral researcher, although you mention "targeting" Business School.  Without knowing that, nobody can suggest any specific universities you could apply to for employment.  If you are looking for business related establishments there are several throughout the country with the best located in Bangkok.  The Thai Embassy can supply the names, etc., of these.  Also, the Thai Ministry of Education in BKK can also provide the information.  There is no need to have any knowledge of Thai although things have been changing and my information could be out of date.  A Work Permit cannot be supplied until after a contract is provided.  It is possible to visit Thailand and approach universities and present your credentials to each institute and discuss your prospects with them.  If successful using this method, then you would have to leave the country and apply for the appropriate visa, and that may mean having to return to the U.K. 

 

There is a lot of paperwork involved in the process but universities are familiar with what has to be done and generally provide it after the contract is agreed upon.  I have been employed at several universities as a Clinical Psychologist and now I am retired so am not up-to-date with the current procedures.  Maybe others may be able to add to my comments.

[SheungWan]

No reason for a Thai university to employ on a F/T contract a new PhD graduate from the West unless they are bringing something distinctive to the employment table which might interest them. Sorry, but also status of the uni where the degree was registered also has impact. In addition F/T academic posts are usually publicly advertised and competed for.

[BritTim]

15 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

No reason for a Thai university to employ on a F/T contract a new PhD graduate from the West unless they are bringing something distinctive to the employment table which might interest them. Sorry, but also status of the uni where the degree was registered also has impact. In addition F/T academic posts are usually publicly advertised and competed for.

Actually, as in most other countries, Thai academic institutions tend to place a high value on PhD qualifications from reputable international universities. They have much greater significance than simple masters degrees though, for business courses, an MBA is also highly regarded. Although the OP does not say so, most PhD recipients in the UK have done some teaching work during their postgraduate years.

[asiaexpat]

As a former lecturer in the business school of a Thai University I suggest you Google Thai universities and select several that have International MBA programs. Apply directly to the university as most have online applications. Your work history and Phd research field will be important. 

[Oxx]

Waheedz, you're Bangladeshi, right?

 

I think you've got virtually zero chance of getting the sort of position you're hoping for.  Sorry.

Edited November 22, 2017 by Oxx

[Srikcir]

Apply directly to the Thai Universities. Check their websites if English is available language for job announcements. Check forums for possible jobs. The work permit process begins with the prospective employer. Then you have to get the appropriate visa.

 

[dcpo]

UK PhDs are held in high regard by Thai institutions. The problem you might face is that upper level Thai universities (Chula, Mahidol etc.) will tend to have lots of Thai academic staff with PhDs from reputable foreign institutions (including Ivy league and comparable places), and the low ranked places who struggle to find competent staff won't do much teaching in English.  This is from the perspective of 'traditional' academia, so you may have more options in the business school. One piece of advice I can give is that waiting for job openings to be posted, or contacting HR departments yourself, is probably a waste of time. If you want a job you'll really want to have an in with a staff member who can talk to the department head on your behalf. Or you can contact the department head directly yourself. If I were you I'd start looking up potential employers and seeing if there are any academics there you share a research interest with. Once you've done that you can send out a few feelers and take it from there. 

[waheedz]

11 hours ago, wotsdermatter said:

Nobody can really offer any help as, first, you have not specified the programme, not course, in which you are a Doctoral researcher, although you mention "targeting" Business School.  Without knowing that, nobody can suggest any specific universities you could apply to for employment.  If you are looking for business related establishments there are several throughout the country with the best located in Bangkok.  The Thai Embassy can supply the names, etc., of these.  Also, the Thai Ministry of Education in BKK can also provide the information.  There is no need to have any knowledge of Thai although things have been changing and my information could be out of date.  A Work Permit cannot be supplied until after a contract is provided.  It is possible to visit Thailand and approach universities and present your credentials to each institute and discuss your prospects with them.  If successful using this method, then you would have to leave the country and apply for the appropriate visa, and that may mean having to return to the U.K. 

 

There is a lot of paperwork involved in the process but universities are familiar with what has to be done and generally provide it after the contract is agreed upon.  I have been employed at several universities as a Clinical Psychologist and now I am retired so am not up-to-date with the current procedures.  Maybe others may be able to add to my comments.

Thank you so very much for your valuable topic. My PhD topic comes under the branches of International Business Studies and specifically I am looking into role of institutions and Government in attracting Foreign Direct Investment. 

 

[waheedz]

11 hours ago, SheungWan said:

No reason for a Thai university to employ on a F/T contract a new PhD graduate from the West unless they are bringing something distinctive to the employment table which might interest them. Sorry, but also status of the uni where the degree was registered also has impact. In addition F/T academic posts are usually publicly advertised and competed for.

Thanks for the feedback, if the jobs are publicly advertised, I guess I can apply directly to the University. I am doing by PhD at Leeds Business School, Leeds Beckett University. I have already been offered a Senior Lecturer post at my Uni, but my parents are going through long term medical treatments in Bangkok, so I am planning to apply at Universities in Thailand. 

[waheedz]

4 hours ago, Oxx said:

Waheedz, you're Bangladeshi, right?

 

I think you've got virtually zero chance of getting the sort of position you're hoping for.  Sorry.

Yah I am Bangladeshi by birth. Let's see :).

[waheedz]

2 hours ago, Srikcir said:

Apply directly to the Thai Universities. Check their websites if English is available language for job announcements. Check forums for possible jobs. The work permit process begins with the prospective employer. Then you have to get the appropriate visa.

 

Thank you very much :)

[SheungWan]

4 minutes ago, waheedz said:

Thanks for the feedback, if the jobs are publicly advertised, I guess I can apply directly to the University. I am doing by PhD at Leeds Business School, Leeds Beckett University. I have already been offered a Senior Lecturer post at my Uni, but my parents are going through long term medical treatments in Bangkok, so I am planning to apply at Universities in Thailand. 

Leeds Beckett University strangely changed its name from Leeds Metropolitan University in 2014. I would say congratulations on the offer of an SL post on graduation and advice that if you do not take this offer you will find it incredibly difficult to get a foothold in HE at any time in the future. If it is the case that going to Bangkok now is your priority, bear in mind that you will IMHO be giving up your chosen career for a difficult life of P/T contracts and low income. Not guaranteed, but sometimes we only get one chance to climb through the window of opportunity. You may be better able to support your parents by staying where you are and supporting them financially.

[leftorright]

Must agree with SheungWan: accept the job in Leeds. With that job in hand, you can look for a visiting position in Thailand for (part of) the time your parents are here. Much easier to realize, especially if Leeds is sympathetic to your situation.

[SheungWan]

15 minutes ago, leftorright said:

Must agree with SheungWan: accept the job in Leeds. With that job in hand, you can look for a visiting position in Thailand for (part of) the time your parents are here. Much easier to realize, especially if Leeds is sympathetic to your situation.

If he starts asking for that soon after being appointed to a F/T job (presumably to fill a F/T lecturing position in the department) he will immediately be considered flighty and using the department for his personal needs. The attitude will sour towards him and he will never recover his reputation. In addition (it gets worse), he will have hidden his true intentions from the appointment committee until after being appointed. No good. Nor will he get the post if he plays it straight and tells them what he wants which is in effect a P/T post at the Uni. He has a straight choice: either he throws himself 100% into the job he is appointed to, or he drops everything and stays with his parents. There is no middle ground which doesn't end badly IMHO.

Edited November 22, 2017 by SheungWan

[SheungWan]

PS I have a question for the OP. What exactly is the status of that offer of an SL Post? Is it an unofficial offer or has there been a formal interview process followed by a contractual document you have in front of you ready to sign?

[waheedz]

9 minutes ago, SheungWan said:

If he starts asking for that soon after being appointed to a F/T job (presumably to fill a F/T lecturing position in the department) he will immediately be considered flighty and using the department for his personal needs. The attitude will sour towards him and he will never recover his reputation. In addition (it gets worse), he will have hidden his true intentions from the appointment committee until after being appointed. No good. Nor will he get the post if he plays it straight and tells them what he wants which is in effect a P/T post at the Uni. He has a straight choice: either he throws himself 100% into the job he is appointed to, or he drops everything and stays with his parents. There is no middle ground which doesn't end badly IMHO.

I have actually decided by mind to be as close as possible to my ailing parents. So, if I cannot get a job in Thailand, I will try Malaysia and UAE. And again, if I do not get a job in neither of them, will return to Bangladesh where I know I will get a job :). The other reason Thai Uni's are of my first preference is because of collaborative research opportunities, currently I am a member of Academy of International Business and we do have representations from Thai Uni's there such as Assumption, Mahidol and Thammasat.....

[leftorright]

In that case you have got little to lose by exploring – as part of the job acceptation process – if Leeds is sympathetic to the idea of you trying to temporarily base yourself in Bangkok as part of the job. Explain your situation and think (with Leeds) about how you could create value for Leeds while being a visiting scholar in Bangkok (or KL, or, even better, Singapore). Depending on how the School operates and what its strategic interests in the region are, there might be opportunities. If Leeds doesn’t see value in the proposition, OK, then it’s game over, same as declining the job offer from the start.

[SheungWan]

14 minutes ago, leftorright said:

In that case you have got little to lose by exploring – as part of the job acceptation process – if Leeds is sympathetic to the idea of you trying to temporarily base yourself in Bangkok as part of the job. Explain your situation and think (with Leeds) about how you could create value for Leeds while being a visiting scholar in Bangkok (or KL, or, even better, Singapore). Depending on how the School operates and what its strategic interests in the region are, there might be opportunities. If Leeds doesn’t see value in the proposition, OK, then it’s game over, same as declining the job offer from the start.

I am still not 100% clear as to what the status of this job offer at Leeds actually is. If there is no contractual offer on the table then there is little to discuss other than the possibility of research collaboration.

Edited November 22, 2017 by SheungWan

[waheedz]

1 hour ago, SheungWan said:

I am still not 100% clear as to what the status of this job offer at Leeds actually is. If there is no contractual offer on the table then there is little to discuss other than the possibility of research collaboration.

SheungWan, there is no contractual offer, its only informal proposals from Department Chair. However, as I have mentioned before I do not intend to stay in the UK. From the discussions here, and the valuable inputs from all the forum members, I guess instead of Headhunting companies, I will contact the University HR Departments directly, and also, I do know some Thai scholars from our International Business association, will be in touch with them. Regarding the work permit procedure, I now understand that can be the dealt by the Uni, the first thing is to get a job offer. Thanks.

[Oxx]

5 hours ago, waheedz said:

I am doing by PhD at Leeds Business School, Leeds Beckett University.

 

To be honest, things get worse for you.  Leeds Beckett isn't a traditional university in the UK.  It's a former polytechnic, so has very low status in UK academia.  Clued-in universities across the globe will know that.

 

I wish you luck, but with very little hope.

[SheungWan]

5 hours ago, Oxx said:

To be honest, things get worse for you.  Leeds Beckett isn't a traditional university in the UK.  It's a former polytechnic, so has very low status in UK academia.  Clued-in universities across the globe will know that.

I wish you luck, but with very little hope.

Lower but not low. 'so has very low status in UK academia'   is just plain wrong. There are plenty of international collaborative projects involving the so-called new universities. Not a smart move to condemn universities in other countries as not being clued-in just because they disagree with you. Just as a for example, Middx Uni has equal ranking with SOAS in THES UK uni rankings so how does that fit the very low label?

[gk10002000]

15 hours ago, asiaexpat said:

As a former lecturer in the business school of a Thai University I suggest you Google Thai universities and select several that have International MBA programs. Apply directly to the university as most have online applications. Your work history and Phd research field will be important. 

I agree.  And I would suggest trying to contact some of the faculty members directly.   If something is there for you, they will be able to help start the process to bring you on board, paperwork, Work Permit etc.  I pursued such things a little bit as I have MS level engineering and math degrees and was considering moving to Thailand to teach.  I got some info back, but decided to keep working in the USA on my engineering jobs until I semi retire to Thailand.

[Grauwulf]

I had a friend of mine (of Indian origin) highly qualified applied to be Lecturer at a well known University in BKK after previously working at a University in UK. They were highly impressed by his credentials and references which accompanied his CV. They asked him to submit a photo and he never heard from them again. I’ve heard similar stories from schools here. Not saying it’s right but it DOES happen here unfortunately. You would be better of applying for a job in the UK and the salary would be better too. Good luck young man.

[SheungWan]

18 hours ago, waheedz said:

SheungWan, there is no contractual offer, its only informal proposals from Department Chair. However, as I have mentioned before I do not intend to stay in the UK. From the discussions here, and the valuable inputs from all the forum members, I guess instead of Headhunting companies, I will contact the University HR Departments directly, and also, I do know some Thai scholars from our International Business association, will be in touch with them. Regarding the work permit procedure, I now understand that can be the dealt by the Uni, the first thing is to get a job offer. Thanks.

In the university sector the most difficult job to get is the first one. And I am talking about tenure here. Once you have your foot in the door and a couple of years of experience you are inside looking out. There are plenty of guys who go the rounds with p/t contracts seemingly for ever and once the CV fills up with a fistful of short-time contracts your card is permanently marked. One of the ways in is through the institution where you are registered for your PhD. Not because they will make you a direct offer for a F/T post (they cannot do this), but because if a post is advertised in the faculty you stand a better chance of being considered as the faculty has had prior opportunity of seeing you in action during your studies and support work. No guarantee. You can still screw up the interview, your prior work may not have been as good as you thought it was and of course you can get beaten by better candidates. But its your best shot. And for some guys it will turn out to have been their only shot.

[wotsdermatter]

22 hours ago, waheedz said:

Thank you so very much for your valuable topic. My PhD topic comes under the branches of International Business Studies and specifically I am looking into role of institutions and Government in attracting Foreign Direct Investment. 

 

Your later comments would have been more useful if made in your initial posting.  They make a lot of difference to how people respond.  I note that you are not a native speaker or writer and that will be a major negative factor in your application, and interview for a position in Thailand.  Especially, what makes your post more negative is that you did not state that your parents are having ongoing medical treatment in Thailand, nor that you have been offered a position in the UK.  You seem to have dug a hole from which you are having difficulty getting out of.  Remember, most universities worldwide prefer to see some sort of experience and international publications before they even consider offering an interview unless they really need to fill a position.

Edited November 23, 2017 by wotsdermatter