Aot Warned On Shifting Flights Back To Don Muang

[george]

IATA warned AOT on shifting some flights back to old Bangkok Airport

BANGKOK: -- The International Air Transport Association (IATA) said yesterday that a decision by Airports of Thailand Plc (AOT) to shift some commercial flights back to Don Muang would dampen Bangkok’s potential for becoming an aviation hub.

Making flight connections between two airports would be a huge inconvenience for passengers, and might further damage the attractiveness of Thailand as a tourist destination, the world’s largest airline trade group said.

Albert Tjoeng, the IATA spokesman for Asia-Pacific, said: “Imagine a passenger arriving in Suvarnabhumi and having to catch a connecting domestic flight or no-frills flight from Don Muang. How long will that connection take including baggage collection, travel from Suvarnabhumi to Don Muang and then check-in for the next flight? If an airport wants to be a hub, it is important to keep the connection time low.”

Apichart: More costs for tour companies

IATA has always supported the Thai governments’ policy of having a single airport for Bangkok, largely because it would provide easy connections for passengers and facilitate airline operations.

Mr Tjoeng said that if AOT insisted on going ahead with the reopening of Don Muang for commercial flights, then it had to ensure a level playing field for all airlines.

While the landing and parking fees at both Suvarnabhumi and Don Muang airports are the same, the cost of renting space at Don Muang would be cheaper.

Several Bangkok-based airline managers yesterday expressed support for AOT’s decision to shift point-to-point domestic flights back to Don Muang in a move to relieve congestion at four-month-old Suvarnabhumi.

They said it was the best immediate solution to unresolved problems, including insufficient toilet facilities, cracking taxiways and heavy traffic at the new airport, which is already nearing its designed annual capacity of 45 million passengers.

This scenario could benefit passengers travelling domestic point-to-point routes, as well as the airlines, in that they would be processed through a more accessible, roomy and complete airport.

Airline executives estimated that Suvarnabhumi could be relieved of as much as 30% of its traffic load by transferring selected flights to Don Muang.

This would prolong the service lifespan of Bangkok’s troubled new airport, particularly at a time when the government remains indecisive about the airport’s expansion.

Thai Airways International president Apinan Sumanaseni yesterday expressed support for AOT’s decision. He said THAI was prepared to move point-to-point domestic flights to Don Muang while keeping those requiring connecting international flights, such as those from Chiang Mai, Phuket and Krabi, at Suvarnabhumi.

THAI operates about 300 domestic flights a week.

At least three airlines that offer domestic services including One-Two-Go, Nok Air and Thai AirAsia, have shown no objection to the move.

IATA said there was urgent need to build a new mid-field terminal to create additional capacity for Suvarnabhumi.

However, Apichart Sankary, president of the Association of Thai Travel Agents (ATTA), said using dual airports may not suit tour operators as they would need to provide facilities at both, entailing more cost and time.

He said that AOT should be open about the problems at Suvarnabhumi airport in order to allow private sectors to prepare operations accordingly.

He said if the government wanted to use two airports, the airport-link project should link to Don Muang as well.

He said some big cities had two airports but they had efficient transport links.

--Agencies/airportsuvarnabhumi.com 2007-01-13

[jumnien]

"He said some big cities had two airports but they had efficient transport links. "

Obviously, he's never been to Los Angeles!

[ilyushin]

Don't know about others, but I welcome the news that DMK will re-open for domestic flights. Hopefully they will even let the regional carriers return too. IATA's comments are worthless, just like the organization.

[falux]

2 airports would only cause problems for passengers coming from international flights and going to a domestic location that is not flown to at all anymore from the new airport.

The solution would probably be to shift only cheap carriers back. As most people know, a flight from LHR to BKK is almost the same price as LHR BKK CNX, as the second is considered as one trip. It wouldn't make sense for international passengers to switch to a cheap airline for the last leg of the flight, the price would be the same or go up.

[Martin]

Don't know about others, but I welcome the news that DMK will re-open for domestic flights. Hopefully they will even let the regional carriers return too. IATA's comments are worthless, just like the organization.

I agree with 'ilyushin'. Very few people would be inconvenienced by domestic flights using Don Muang, provided that passengers from Krabi, Koh Samui, Phuket and Chiang Mai could get flights to the new airport.

My view is based on what used to happen at DonMuang Domestic Terminal, when flights out to other destinations than those mentioned were joined by very few people who had just flown in on an International flight.

Similarly for incoming flights to Don Muang Domestic, the vast majority of the passengers from places like Udon or Khon Kaen left the airport and headed into Bangkok.

I used to push my trolley through the tunnel to International to get my onward flight to the UK, and then through T2 to T1. I cannot remember ever noticing another passenger in T1 or T2 who I recognised as having come down from 'up country' on the same flight that I had done.

IATA speaks for International Tourism. But the greater convenience of hundreds of domestic passengers outweighs a bit of inconvenience for just a few international flyers, even when one of them is me.

[chuck6660]

"He said some big cities had two airports but they had efficient transport links. "

Obviously, he's never been to Los Angeles!

Seoul Korea has the same set-up as being recommended for BKK. International flights use the "new" Incheon International Airport while domestic point - point flights use the "old" Gimpo Airport. This works very well and I hear of no complaints.

The one difference is that Korea is not the Tourist destination that Thailand is, Korea can also be criss-crossed, Seoul - Busan in 3 hours by express train.

[pampal]

Many cities have two airports or more with varying ways to connect between the two.

Los Angeles, London, and Washington D.C. among others.

They should reopen Don Meuang and build the required links, it would be good for everyone.

[Who, me ?]

Many cities have two airports or more with varying ways to connect between the two.

Los Angeles, London, and Washington D.C. among others.

They should reopen Don Meuang and build the required links, it would be good for everyone.

Still, it is a shame to find out 3 or 4 month after opening that this wannabe reference is saturated.......Makes the whole Asia laugh at LOS....And honestly, I am not convinced that reopening DM will help ! It will create more headache in terms of staff, equipment, connexions, etc.....The wise way would have been to delay the new one till it is properly completed

[chownah]

Elevated high speed train connecting the two airports with no stops inbetween.......21st century, ready or not here we come!!!!!!!!!!!

Chownah

[ilyushin]

Taxis can get you from DMK (Don Muang) to BKK (Suvarnabhumi) in 30-45 min. I drive daily during rush hour(s) and average 40 mins from point to point. Thai Stonehenge (old unfinished Hopewell project ) might still be able to be completed, but doubt it.

Most seasoned tourist / travelers will never even notice or complain. The first timers don't seem to notice much anyway and complain regardless of the quality or quantity. Gives them more to fuss about to their other miserable buddies back home.

IATA

Edited January 14, 2007 by ilyushin

[tartempion]

Recipe for creating a mess?

Copy how they do it here (filling your pockets and claiming you are building the flashiest airport in Asia)

[ThaiGoon]

Taxis can get you from DMK (Don Muang) to BKK (Suvarnabhumi) in 30-45 min. I drive daily during rush hour(s) and average 40 mins from point to point. Thai Stonehenge (old unfinished Hopewell project ) might still be able to be completed, but doubt it.

Most seasoned tourist / travelers will never even notice or complain. The first timers don't seem to notice much anyway and complain regardless of the quality or quantity. Gives them more to fuss about to their other miserable buddies back home.

IATA

The pillars from Hopewell project has already been designed to be integrated into the Red rail line which has been approved by the cabinet a couple of months ago. Out the five rail lines that have been approved, the red line is expected to be the first to get under construction this year. Still probably about 4 or 5 years before the whole airport high speed rail link will be completed though.

[midas]

Don't know about others, but I welcome the news that DMK will re-open for domestic flights. Hopefully they will even let the regional carriers return too. IATA's comments are worthless, just like the organization.

so I am curious ilyushin ? what makes you such an expert that your opinion on this matter

is worth more than that of IATA ?

[jumnien]

Don't know about others, but I welcome the news that DMK will re-open for domestic flights. Hopefully they will even let the regional carriers return too. IATA's comments are worthless, just like the organization.

so I am curious ilyushin ? what makes you such an expert that your opinion on this matter

is worth more than that of IATA ?

I TRUST ILYUSHIN. BUT INTERNATIONAL TOURIST ORGANIZATIONS, I DON'T TRUST THEM ONE IATA!

[Patex]

...so I am curious ilyushin ? what makes you such an expert that your opinion on this matter

is worth more than that of IATA ?

If I remember right, than ilyushin is a pilot...

[lor]

Maybe I am missing something here, but it was only last week that I was reading on this Forum that the Whole of the New airport was going to have to be closed down anyway and all filghts transferred to the Old Airport because the New airport was so unsafe, OR did it somehow repair itself in the last few days?

Chris

[robint]

Maybe I am missing something here, but it was only last week that I was reading on this Forum that the Whole of the New airport was going to have to be closed down anyway and all filghts transferred to the Old Airport because the New airport was so unsafe, OR did it somehow repair itself in the last few days?

Chris

I used DM for 20 years and cant remember any nervoous moments, It was always a pleasure coming and going

Thank god I dont have to travel anymore as Im a resident flang for the duration of my mortal coil

[ilyushin]

Don't know about others, but I welcome the news that DMK will re-open for domestic flights. Hopefully they will even let the regional carriers return too. IATA's comments are worthless, just like the organization.

so I am curious ilyushin ? what makes you such an expert that your opinion on this matter

is worth more than that of IATA ?

midas, I didn't claim to be an expert in my previous post, but just expressed my opinion compared with that of IATA.

Who is IATA?

The main objective of the organization is to assist airline companies (not airports) to achieve lawful competition and uniformity in prices. For fare calculations IATA has divided the world in three regions:

-South and North America.

-Europe, Middle East and Africa. IATA Europe includes the geographical Europe and the countries Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia.

-Asia, Australia, New Zealand and the islands of the Pacific Ocean.

To this end, airlines have been granted a special exemption by each of the main regulatory authorities in the world to consult prices with each other through this body. However, the organization has been accused of acting as a cartel, and many low cost carriers are not full IATA members. The European Union's competition authorities are currently investigating the body. In 2005 the European Commissioner for Competition, made a proposal to lift the exception to consult prices. In July 2006 the United States Department of Transportation also proposed to withdraw antitrust immunity. IATA teamed with Sita for an electronic ticketing solution.

IATA assigns 3-letter IATA Airport Codes and 2-letter IATA Airline Designators, which are commonly used worldwide. ICAO also assigns airport and airline codes. For Rail&Fly systems IATA also assigns IATA train station codes. For delay codes, IATA assigns IATA Delay Codes.

IATA is pivotal in the worldwide accreditation of travel agents (with exception of the U.S., where this is done by the Airlines Reporting Corporation (ARC) although for practical purposes this, and giving permission to sell airline tickets from the participating carriers, is achieved through national member organizations.

Who is Ilyushin (me)?

A qualified pilot for over 25 years, member of Aircraft Owner and Pilot Association (AOPA) for more than 25 years, several degrees in Aviation Business Administration and Management. Also, Ilyushin has worked in 24 airports within Thailand over the past 25 years (16+ yrs in Don Muang) and numerous other airports worldwide ( Vietnam, Cambodia, Malaysia, Laos, Burma, China, Indonesia , Philippines, USA, etc....). Mostly large commercial planes, operations and special mission equipment.

Also I see 3 airline operators and AoT seem to agree with me too.

Hope that is enough for you Mr. midas.

On topic - Don Muang (DMK) is plug and play and the airlines are willing to take the risk ( market share). I hope that the tour companies deal with the change. Us passengers will get use to it after time.

Happy flying!

Edited January 14, 2007 by ilyushin

[Gumballl]

Am I missing something here? I've been to Suvarnabhumi twice (once with Thail Airlines, the other time with JAL/Cathay Pacific). In both times, I never saw an issue with overcrowding, unreasonable delays etc. I could also say the same for Don Muang when it was open. But the bottom line, where is the problem?

If you travel to LAX, then you will understand perhaps that the description of "overcrowded" is better suited there. If you want to find a complex airport, with unhelpful signage, then go to Hong Kong. Gatwick in the UK is also no picnic.

But the new airport in BKK, I have zero trouble arriving and departing. My only soft-complaint is that Sang Som is not available in the duty free shops. This libation is a party-pleaser in the US where it is not available.

[Martin]

When I read the original posting, I was reminded of Mandy Rice-Davies, who became a quite (in)famous young woman in Britain for a while, about forty years ago.

She was what was then quaintly called 'a woman of easy virtue', and the shenanigans of her close associate, Christine Keeler, had become a cause celebre, as they involved a Cabinet minister.

The high-level pimp involved, Stephen Ward, denied some involvement or other, and when Mandy Rice-Davies was told by a reporter what Ward had said, she replied: "Well, he would, wouldn't he?"

Similarly for IATA. They would say that, wouldn't they?

They are set up to lobby for their clients interests, quite regardless of of the interests of others.

I would hope that the AoT politely thanks them for their observation and mentally says: "You have done your Masters' bidding. Now sod off".

[midas]

Who is IATA?

The main objective of the organization is to assist airline companies (not airports) to achieve lawful competition and uniformity in prices. -Asia,

so we have established your expertise in aviation but it still doesn't overcome the problem

that there are still a few people on this forum who don't want to travel across town

from one Bangkok airport to the other so if IATA also agree with me then

quite frankly I think they're a wonderful organisation

[danmtl]

The more i look at it the more it seem like a big White Elephant and they have no clues what do to with it/IATA is a international organisation whom regulate Airport in the world by giving them the mandate and issue a certificate of operation The New Airport didn't pass this certification because IATA warn them way ahead it was not ready to open and draw the line of the inefficiency they could encounter..

We are now at this stage with yesterday announcement from The national Carrier Thai Airways to switch back all domestic flight to Don Muang

BIG MISTAKE we all know Thai Airways is mismanaged and way over cost when wanting to fly to another country i just hope Air Asia or even Nok Air will keep their flight at Suwarnabhumi it will show Thai Airways how to manage a airline .

As for myself i will suggest to all my personal friends to fly to Singapore if they want to go to Udon Thani and get the connection from there since it will open for business on janauary 25

Time to start a new airline

[xbusman]

Errr, yeah. Iluyshin is the wrong person to question about aviation bone fides. Reading his posts over the last few years reveals a highly experienced commercial avaition professional knowledgable to the nth degree about everything from technical aircraft details to military flight operations.

As always with Thailand, the real problem here is that they have all the wrong people in all the wrong positions making wrong decisions for all the wrong reasons. Thankfully there is a horde of some hard working creative workers that continues to plod along, getting the job done despite all the interference and inanity at the top. Thats been the "Thai way" for hundreds of years, thinking this monumental project would herald a new age of competent management, strategic planning, and clear transparent operations is a bit naive.

They will have to open DM, SUV just does not have the capacity and they have neither the time nor money to put additional capacity in place. It will be no problem to open or operate DM, will not cost much money or consume resources, and provide some real opportunity for SUV to work the bugs out safely and in good order. There will be very little inconveniance to passengers except for the cheap charlies that are unwilling to spend a little time and few hundred baht by choosing a low cost carrier for domestic flights. I would be fairly confident that most major domestic destinations will still be accessable from SUV. I rather doubt that Thai Air will split operations between airports that close together, sounds to me like they are trying to negotiate AOT into a reasonable fee structure.

[astral]

"He said some big cities had two airports but they had efficient transport links. "

Obviously, he's never been to Los Angeles!

Or London..............

[PeaceBlondie]

Yes, London! I saw an internet kiosk in the Mochit bus terminal yesterday identical to the type used at Heathrow, and my Thai partner had to restrain me from demolishing it. Right now, I'm booking flights through Moscow (2 airports) and London (3 airports) just to get from Chiang Mai to Shannon and return. Ugghhh, grrrrh. It appears I shall have to spend another sleepless night in Heathrow, where last time the only place one could recline was the smoking lounge occupied by a clearly insane, homophobic Indian psycho.

Domestic connections are fine for places like Hobby and Love Fields in Texas, maybe for Midway in Chicago. They tell me the bus in Moscow takes at least two hours between airports (at least it won't be 25 degrees below when I travel). Last time coming from Austria to Heathrow, the plane ran out of fuel circling London, stopped at another field to refuel.....they refused to let the local people get off there...lots of folks missed their connections.

[Galong]

Maybe I am missing something here, but it was only last week that I was reading on this Forum that the Whole of the New airport was going to have to be closed down anyway and all filghts transferred to the Old Airport because the New airport was so unsafe, OR did it somehow repair itself in the last few days?

Chris

Oh no Chris, you've got a memory... you can't do that here.

Good one buddy!