UK and EU agree Brexit divorce bill: UK newspapers

[Baerboxer]

8 minutes ago, mlmcleod said:

The main reason for Brexit was English fear of immigrants.  If the Irish border remains free and open, what's to stop immigrants from just crossing the Irish border? I think Ireland will have a wave of new immigrants just to cross the border.  I doubt that the back door can remain open as the Irish wish.

 

British not English.

[jinners]

3 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

Fortunately, most people in the UK understand that to simply walk away from the EU and pay nothing, a truly hard Brexit, means that the UK economy would take a long deep dive.

Please explain. As most of our trade is currently worked out via WTO rules and most of our exports go elsewhere while most of Europe's imports come to the UK. Tiresome all this Brexit bashing.

The EU is the largest protectionist market known to man. The UK will be far better out due to both its control over laws and borders and financially. There may be stormy weather but we'll come out much better and stronger the other side.

[lincolnshire poacher]

4 hours ago, shaurene said:

Bloody Traitors to the UK people. They gave in to them. If we had a referendum for the people to decide you can bet it would be to pay the the EU ransom they demand NOTHING AND JUST WALK AWAY. The EU would come to us after a year or so to beg for trading with them.

And I suppose that they would offer us money for the privilege of dealing with the mighty UK.

 

[lincolnshire poacher]

11 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

British not English.

Irish immigrants ?

[Baerboxer]

Just now, lincolnshire poacher said:

Irish immigrants ?

who are?

[lincolnshire poacher]

5 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

who are?

Irish from the Republic

[Baerboxer]

Just now, lincolnshire poacher said:

Irish from the Republic

 

what about them?

 

 

[lincolnshire poacher]

5 hours ago, Grouse said:

The Benefits from Brexit must be HUGE! I wonder what they are?

A  continuing  Tory government withT May, B Johnson and the rest of the crew

[jinners]

1 minute ago, lincolnshire poacher said:

A  continuing  Tory government withT May, B Johnson and the rest of the crew

The alternative is too scary to contemplate

[lincolnshire poacher]

2 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

what about them?

 

 

Immigrants into the Brexxitted utopia

[lincolnshire poacher]

3 minutes ago, jinners said:

The alternative is too scary to contemplate

I've contemplated it and I would give them a chance, there hasn't been a worse government than this rabble in my lifetime.

[dick dasterdly]

49 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I look forward to the Brit. govt. explaining how this reported, promised payment has been calculated - whilst having no doubt that nothing of the sort will ever be produced.....

 

To look on the bright side, perhaps a good trade agreement has already been mostly agreed behind closed doors - hence the reportedly 'agreed' divorce payment?

 

48 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

And not even a hint of such a trade negotiation has been leaked to the press? Wishful thinking much?

Which is precisely why I said "perhaps a good trade agreement"  etc.

 

The vast majority of MPs prefer to remain within the EU, but realise they may lose their seats if they make it clear they are going against their constituents in 'leave' constituencies.

 

Project fear is still in full swing and the govt. is unlikely to provide any calculations as to how they arrived at the 'divorce payment' figure.  On the other hand, I've no doubt negotiations are happening behind closed doors.   Hence my uncertainty.

 

 

[Baerboxer]

22 minutes ago, lincolnshire poacher said:

Immigrants into the Brexxitted utopia

 

Always been plenty of Irish immigrants, always treated better than other immigrants, and always will be. So?

[Baerboxer]

16 minutes ago, lincolnshire poacher said:

I've contemplated it and I would give them a chance, there hasn't been a worse government than this rabble in my lifetime.

 

Not sure your age. I can remember the Jim Callaghan and Ted Heath governments. Even worse than Cameron and May's, IMO.

 

I don't doubt a Corbyn PC far left regime would be a disaster.

[lincolnshire poacher]

5 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

 

Which is precisely why I said "perhaps a good trade agreement"  etc.

 

The vast majority of MPs prefer to remain within the EU, but realise they may lose their seats if they make it clear they are going against their constituents in 'leave' constituencies.

 

Project fear is still in full swing and the govt. is unlikely to provide any calculations as to how they arrived at the 'divorce payment' figure.  On the other hand, I've no doubt negotiations are happening behind closed doors.   Hence my uncertainty.

 

 

From what I can gather, the method of assessing the bill has been agreed,  but not the actual bill itself

[lincolnshire poacher]

2 minutes ago, Baerboxer said:

 

Not sure your age. I can remember the Jim Callaghan and Ted Heath governments. Even worse than Cameron and May's, IMO.

 

I don't doubt a Corbyn PC far left regime would be a disaster.

I can remember the Callaghan government and Heath. Callaghan avoided a war with Argentina with a mixture of diplomacy and threats.

Heath, I don't remember so well apart from him sailing on Morning Cloud, so I'll put him in my bottom 3.

[boomerangutang]

2 hours ago, ilostmypassword said:

No, the US did not come out of debt during Bill Clinton's presidency. The budget was slightly positive towards the end but the debt did not disappear. What's more, the UK for several hundred years has been in debt and for most of that time seems to have been doing okay. There are so many flaws in the argument comparing personal finances to government finances. 

We don't agree.  I go with 'pay as you go,'  or 'live within your means.'

 

The US and Britain, and many other countries, go with the idea: 'borrow as much as possible, as often as possible.'   That's a big reason why both countries are in economic toilets.

 

 

[Basil B]

This is Blackmail

 

How can you put a price on Brexit when it is not known what the final deal will be???

 

50 Billion Euros, this equates  to about 2,200 Euros for every UK worker in full time employment...

[simoh1490]

16 minutes ago, Basil B said:

This is Blackmail

 

How can you put a price on Brexit when it is not known what the final deal will be???

 

50 Billion Euros, this equates  to about 2,200 Euros for every UK worker in full time employment...

Yes, and before too long, each of those workers will be asked to make their contributions via the tax system, you wanted it, you voted for it, you got it, now enjoy it.

[Basil B]

4 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Yes, and before too long, each of those workers will be asked to make their contributions via the tax system, you wanted it, you voted for it, you got it, now enjoy it.

I did not vote for it... (but I did vote).

[Orac]

2 hours ago, jinners said:

Please explain. As most of our trade is currently worked out via WTO rules and most of our exports go elsewhere while most of Europe's imports come to the UK. Tiresome all this Brexit bashing.

The EU is the largest protectionist market known to man. The UK will be far better out due to both its control over laws and borders and financially. There may be stormy weather but we'll come out much better and stronger the other side.

 

Off the top of my head of the 163 WTO members we trade with only three  are not under some form of trade agreement or an agreement is currently being negotiated by the EU. I believe there are something like 42 separate bilateral agreements between the US and EU alone and a pound of flesh will probably be demanded to let the UK sign the same agreements individually.

[lincolnshire poacher]

Just now, lincolnshire poacher said:

I can remember the Callaghan government and Heath. Callaghan avoided a war with Argentina with a mixture of diplomacy and threats.

Heath, I don't remember so well apart from him sailing on Morning Cloud, so I'll put him in my bottom 3.

 

[dunroaming]

8 hours ago, terryw said:

Firstly, it could be argued that if we had stayed in the EU then we would have had to pay this money.

Yes and be reaping the benefits of the single market and customs union and have an important seat at the table.  We have grown are economy to be the fifth best economy in the world.  That was from being in the EU.  After leaving we will be paying money with none of the benefits.  Of course we might still be able to stay in the single market and customs union but....... May has said we are not going to do that.

 

7 hours ago, shaurene said:

Bloody Traitors to the UK people. They gave in to them. If we had a referendum for the people to decide you can bet it would be to pay the the EU ransom they demand NOTHING AND JUST WALK AWAY. The EU would come to us after a year or so to beg for trading with them.

Who exactly are the traitors to the UK people?  The Brexit campaigners with their pledge of 360 million a week going into the NHS and no talk of any payment to the EU?  Or the Brexit "negotiators" for accepting what was inevitable from day one?  That being that we would have to pay out an enormous amount of money without really knowing what deal we would end up with. That money will be being paid for years and years to come. Certainly they have all lied to us and I suspect will continue to do so.

 

As for the EU coming to us begging for us to trade with them, well the EU haven't suggested that they will stop trading with us, we will just have to pay duty on their goods.

[dunroaming]

2 hours ago, Basil B said:

This is Blackmail

 

How can you put a price on Brexit when it is not known what the final deal will be???

 

50 Billion Euros, this equates  to about 2,200 Euros for every UK worker in full time employment...

But we are told by May and Davis and chums that this is negotiating and we are making progress.  Is there anyone left who believes that this "team" can negotiate anything positive at all?  Barnier told May she had ten days to come up with a figure above the 40 billion that was being mooted and sure enough she did just that.

 

But the elephant in the room is still the Irish border issue and the UK has to come up with a workable solution to that.  So far zilch!

[simoh1490]

If enough people get upset at the prospect of us paying 50 billion, or however much it becomes, the next logical step is to oust the government and replace it with...........er, well, Corbyn I suppose, since that's the only choice. 

 

Personally, I fully expect that to happen, sadly.

 

If that happens, no amount of new trade deals or newly found freedom is going to help, it will be game over for UK Plc. 

[ilostmypassword]

3 hours ago, boomerangutang said:

We don't agree.  I go with 'pay as you go,'  or 'live within your means.'

 

The US and Britain, and many other countries, go with the idea: 'borrow as much as possible, as often as possible.'   That's a big reason why both countries are in economic toilets.

 

 

By what criteria are the USA and Great Britain in "economic toilets.? Unless your criterion is that they are in debt. Which, in that case, would count as circular reasoning.

[ilostmypassword]

27 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

Yes and be reaping the benefits of the single market and customs union and have an important seat at the table.  We have grown are economy to be the fifth best economy in the world.  That was from being in the EU.  After leaving we will be paying money with none of the benefits.  Of course we might still be able to stay in the single market and customs union but....... May has said we are not going to do that.

 

Who exactly are the traitors to the UK people?  The Brexit campaigners with their pledge of 360 million a week going into the NHS and no talk of any payment to the EU?  Or the Brexit "negotiators" for accepting what was inevitable from day one?  That being that we would have to pay out an enormous amount of money without really knowing what deal we would end up with. That money will be being paid for years and years to come. Certainly they have all lied to us and I suspect will continue to do so.

 

As for the EU coming to us begging for us to trade with them, well the EU haven't suggested that they will stop trading with us, we will just have to pay duty on their goods.

"We have grown are economy to be the fifth best economy in the world. "

I think you should substitute "biggest" for "best" considering the dismal and worsening income disparity levels prevalent in the UK. Some combination of GDP and Gini index would be a better way to determine how good an economy is.

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, lincolnshire poacher said:

I can remember the Callaghan government and Heath. Callaghan avoided a war with Argentina with a mixture of diplomacy and threats.

Heath, I don't remember so well apart from him sailing on Morning Cloud, so I'll put him in my bottom 3.

Think yourself lucky you weren't in Ted Heath's bottom 3 ?

[partington]

36 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

 

 

As for the EU coming to us begging for us to trade with them, well the EU haven't suggested that they will stop trading with us, we will just have to pay duty on their goods.

The problem is that UK imports from to the EU are about  53% of our total imports from anywhere, and the EU's exports to the UK are only around 8-18%% of their total exports to anywhere.

 

It is not a strong position for our economy, and not a strong position to argue for better conditions. The UK will suffer more from the imposition of tariffs by the EU than the EU will from imposition of tariffs by the UK.

 

Again this is just common sense.

 

You could argue that new trading agreements with non-EU countries will lower the proportion of imports from the EU, and will be just as favourable as our former terms with EU countries. Let's hope so.

Edited November 29, 2017 by partington

[Grouse]

2 minutes ago, partington said:

The problem is that UK imports from to the EU are about  53% of our total imports from anywhere, and the EU's exports to the UK are only around 8-18%% of their total exports to anywhere.

 

It is not a strong position for our economy, and not a strong position to argue for better conditions. The UK will suffer more from the imposition of tariffs by the EU than the EU will from imposition of tariffs by the UK.

 

Again this is just common sense.

 

You could argue that new trading agreements with non-EU countries will lower the proportion of imports from the EU, and will be just as favourable as our former terms with EU countries. Let's hope so.

This, sir, is a Brexit thread; how dare you bring common sense into the discussion? Shocking behaviour!