UK and EU agree Brexit divorce bill: UK newspapers

[lincolnshire poacher]

10 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Think yourself lucky you weren't in Ted Heath's bottom 3 ?

ha ha

[dunroaming]

32 minutes ago, partington said:

The problem is that UK imports from to the EU are about  53% of our total imports from anywhere, and the EU's exports to the UK are only around 8-18%% of their total exports to anywhere.

 

It is not a strong position for our economy, and not a strong position to argue for better conditions. The UK will suffer more from the imposition of tariffs by the EU than the EU will from imposition of tariffs by the UK.

 

Again this is just common sense.

 

You could argue that new trading agreements with non-EU countries will lower the proportion of imports from the EU, and will be just as favourable as our former terms with EU countries. Let's hope so.

Valid argument and sensible view.   I certainly agree that we will need to look outside the EU for many of our imports if Brexit (as it looks at the moment goes through).  

[dunroaming]

5 hours ago, jinners said:

Please explain. As most of our trade is currently worked out via WTO rules and most of our exports go elsewhere while most of Europe's imports come to the UK. Tiresome all this Brexit bashing.

The EU is the largest protectionist market known to man. The UK will be far better out due to both its control over laws and borders and financially. There may be stormy weather but we'll come out much better and stronger the other side.

If any of us live that long 

 

Didn't realise the UK was the biggest market for the EU.  You mean we import more German cars than the US?  Maybe you should re-think that statement.

Edited November 29, 2017 by dunroaming

[ilostmypassword]

5 hours ago, jinners said:

Please explain. As most of our trade is currently worked out via WTO rules and most of our exports go elsewhere while most of Europe's imports come to the UK. Tiresome all this Brexit bashing.

 

Where did you ever come up with the idea that "most of Europe's imports come to the UK"?

[dunroaming]

10 hours ago, edwinchester said:

Well the Indian Govt are insisting on the UK accepting more immigrants as part of a trade deal......does that count?

I wouldn't worry too much about an increase in immigrants to the UK from India.  With the British economy beginning to struggle and India on the rise I suspect the flow will be the other way.

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, dunroaming said:

But we are told by May and Davis and chums that this is negotiating and we are making progress.  Is there anyone left who believes that this "team" can negotiate anything positive at all?  Barnier told May she had ten days to come up with a figure above the 40 billion that was being mooted and sure enough she did just that.

 

But the elephant in the room is still the Irish border issue and the UK has to come up with a workable solution to that.  So far zilch!

To be fair, I don't think the result can be blamed on May, there simply was not very much to negotiate with.

[the guest]

Step 1 - money (50,000,000) almost completed

Step 2 - EU nationals with regards to their rights being protected (still outstanding)

Step 3 - UK/Irish Border (still outstanding)

 

Once all 3 all been completed, then trade negotiations can continue. 

 

[Jip99]

5 minutes ago, dunroaming said:

I wouldn't worry too much about an increase in immigrants to the UK from India.  With the British economy beginning to struggle and India on the rise I suspect the flow will be the other way.

 

 

Mildly amusing.

[dunroaming]

2 minutes ago, stevenl said:

To be fair, I don't think the result can be blamed on May, there simply was not very much to negotiate with.

You are right that there isn't much to negotiate with.  We are completely on the back foot.  Just wish that May would put her hands up and admit it.

[boomerangutang]

 

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

By what criteria are the USA and Great Britain in "economic toilets.? Unless your criterion is that they are in debt. Which, in that case, would count as circular reasoning.

I know more about the US than Britain. The US can't afford basic health-care for its regular citizens.  The US gov't is about to close down.  When that happens, the little guys on the bottom don't get paychecks.  Of course, the fat cats at the top will never miss a paycheck, even if they have to strip away SS and veterans' benefits.  A big reason the US (and I assume, also UK) is up shit creek is runaway debt.  Trump is the poster boy for wasteful spending (1 of hundreds of examples: giving the military more than it asks for).  Now we hear the UK is gearing up to pay a gargantuan amount to the EU (for what?) and the UK is also up to its gills in debt and interest payments.  

 

[dunroaming]

3 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

Mildly amusing.

But not completely tongue in cheek.  Many qualified young Indians in the UK are looking at India.  Annoying that they have been educated in the UK and then will be leaving and taking their skills with them.

[Orac]

To be fair, I don't think the result can be blamed on May, there simply was not very much to negotiate with.

Maybe not but the timing was down to her and triggering article 50 when she did and then calling an election was playing fast and loose with our future.


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[ilostmypassword]

2 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

 

I know more about the US than Britain. The US can't afford basic health-care for its regular citizens.  The US gov't is about to close down.  When that happens, the little guys on the bottom don't get paychecks.  Of course, the fat cats at the top will never miss a paycheck, even if they have to strip away SS and veterans' benefits.  A big reason the US (and I assume, also UK) is up shit creek is runaway debt.  Trump is the poster boy for wasteful spending (1 of hundreds of examples: giving the military more than it asks for).  Now we hear the UK is gearing up to pay a gargantuan amount to the EU (for what?) and the UK is also up to its gills in debt and interest payments.  

 

Certainly the US and the UK both rate very low on the Gini scale. But that is largely due to political decisions and don't mean that the economies are basket cases - namely not viable - but only that they are very bad at delivering services to lots of its people.  And it does have a political crisis looming. But how does that mean that the economy is a basket case ? Once again you seem to be engaging in circular reasoning. 

[dunroaming]

3 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

Maybe not but the timing was down to her and triggering article 50 when she did and then calling an election was playing fast and loose with our future.


Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

May was handed a poisoned chalice with the Brexit Prime Ministership.  She grasped it and drank heartily from it.  The poison turns out to be slowly but surely working.  I am sure that the chalice is up for grabs but there are none out there who wants to drink from it now.

[dunroaming]

So Barnier has now said that the negotiations are not over yet.  "We are still working on them".  Prime Minister May slipped away to the middle east, some say to avoid a difficult PMQ's. 

[Bluespunk]

9 hours ago, shaurene said:

Bloody Traitors to the UK people. They gave in to them. If we had a referendum for the people to decide you can bet it would be to pay the the EU ransom they demand NOTHING AND JUST WALK AWAY. The EU would come to us after a year or so to beg for trading with them.

The uk needs the eu more than the eu needs the uk.

 

The uk needs that market.

[Jip99]

11 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

The uk needs the eu more than the eu needs the uk.

 

The uk needs that market.

 

 and you can support that statement with any facts/evidence ?

[Bluespunk]

Just now, Jip99 said:

 

 and you can support that statement with any facts/evidence ?

55 billion reasons...

[Jip99]

Just now, Bluespunk said:

55 billion reasons...

 

 

I thought not... 

[ilostmypassword]

1 minute ago, Jip99 said:

 

 and you can support that statement with any facts/evidence ?

I think the evidence has been cited to death. Roughly 16 percent of the EU's exports go to the UK and roughly 43 percent of the UK's exports go to Europe. That's for starters. On the other hand, since a huge share of those exports depends on the UK's financial service industry, which is about to lose a ton of business to the other EU nations,  I guess the good news is that UK export to the EU should decline sharply. Hooray!

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, Bluespunk said:

55 billion reasons...

A silly response! In truth, the proximity of the EU to the UK, along with its sheer size, means the odds are that ruling out its nearest neighbours, an entire bloc, is suicidal.

[Jip99]

£55 billion is only 157 weeks @ £350 million.

 

 

Just saying....

[Bluespunk]

5 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

 

 

I thought not... 

The desperation of the uk govt is clear.

 

The uk economy is going to be hit disastrously if it cannot access the eu market.

 

The days of imperial preference and commonwealth trading are over and have been since the 1930s.

Edited November 29, 2017 by Bluespunk

[simoh1490]

Just now, Jip99 said:

£55 billion is only 157 weeks @ £350 million.

 

 

Just saying....

If only life was that simple!

[Bluespunk]

2 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

A silly response! In truth, the proximity of the EU to the UK, along with its sheer size, means the odds are that ruling out its nearest neighbours, an entire bloc, is suicidal.

Not silly at all.

 

The size of what the uk is willing to pay, makes it clear how desperate it is to access the eu market.

[Bluespunk]

3 minutes ago, Jip99 said:

£55 billion is only 157 weeks @ £350 million.

 

 

Just saying....

Ah the mythical number that the NHS was going to receive.

 

What ever happened to that promise?

[boomerangutang]

I was curious, so I googled 'countries with least debt.'  Here are the only countries which are debt-free from external debt:

Macau, British Virgin Islands, Brunei, Liechtenstein, Palau.

 

USA has highest external debt in dollar value (between 60% and 100% of GDP, depending on who you ask) and Japan has highest debt in terms of % of GDP (200+%). Saudi Arabia has lowest debt as % of GDP.

 

The UK, according to Wikipedia, is nearly $8 trillion in debt.   That's $119,000 for each man, woman, child and baby.

 

Luxembourg holds the record for per capita debt: $6.7 million per citizen.

[ilostmypassword]

13 minutes ago, Bluespunk said:

The desperation of the uk govt is clear.

 

The uk economy is going to be hit disastrously if it cannot access the eu market.

 

The days of imperial preference and commonwealth trading are over and have been since the 1930s.

Most economists don't think it's going to be disastrous. The UK will still trade with the EU. It's just that Brexit will significantly slow its economic growth.

[Bluespunk]

8 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Most economists don't think it's going to be disastrous. The UK will still trade with the EU. It's just that Brexit will significantly slow its economic growth.

I hope you're right...

 

However I've been saying that the uk needs the eu more than the eu needs the uk.

 

If the uk can trade within the eu market, then they'll get by.

 

If they fail to access that market... then that is where disaster lies.

Edited November 29, 2017 by Bluespunk

[dunroaming]

9 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

Most economists don't think it's going to be disastrous. The UK will still trade with the EU. It's just that Brexit will significantly slow its economic growth.

Well considering the way the UK's economy is heading at the moment any extra pressure is going to have a significant effect I would have thought.  We are all holding our breath over this terrible Brexit fiasco and hoping by some miracle we will come through it with bruises rather than broken bones.