Arabs, Europe, U.N. reject Trump's recognition of Jerusalem as Israeli capital

[dexterm]

14 minutes ago, Morch said:

 

I understand that you cannot abide highlighting them inconsistency and contradictions often appearing in your posts, but do try to focus:

 

You opined that the "There are many reasons why the peace process has not gone anywhere for the last 20 years plus. It's not just a single embassy location issue as the root cause of failure, as though by moving it will solve everything." And yet on previous posts you asserted that the very statement itself spells the end of the peace process. Which is it, then?

 

All of the nonsense posted about your "position", and "misrepresentation" doesn't not relate to the question posed.

 

No inconsistency. Learn to read more carefully.

All roads lead to Rome...a unified secular truly democratic state of Palestine/ Israel/ Israelistine. Time frame...inevitable.

 

If Trump's foolish announcement leads to abandonment of two state solution peace talks, sad, but ultimately leads to one state solution...Israel's colonies facts on the ground, Jerusalem eternal undivided capital, insurmountable evacuations and land/resource swap problems etc etc seem to have made that inevitable...then good.

 

If Trump's foolish announcement (with a slight bit of wriggle room ...no final Jerusalem borders pre-empted..if he really means what he says) can somehow be overlooked  and peace talks are resumed leading to a two state solution (which as outlined above will eventually meld into one)..then also good and perhaps less painful.

 

Try to see the bigger picture and not focus too much on minutiae.

[geriatrickid]

Nothing has really changed has it? What has changed exactly, aside from the USA finally accepting the reality.  Jerusalem has been Israel's capital since independence.   Yes, we all know  the arab world and its enablers do not accept the existence of Israel and demand that the jews be driven out.  Nothing new there. The muslims have been waging wars since their religion was started. Nothing new there either. The US recognition of a law it passed decades ago changes nothing. The corrupt arab administration in the west bank and Gaza will still receive their billions of Euro in welfare and will still carry on as before. The sectarian strife in  the middle east will  continue as before with muslims blowing up their mosques.

It is not as if the  arabs were serious about peace talks, because they have refused to do anything since the Camp David  agreement. One can  go back and forth on this, but historically, it has been the Israelis always making offers and the Arabs saying no, we want more. The Europeans huffing and puffing  have  conveniently forgotten that when the Arabs controlled east Jerusalem the forbid any jews from entering religious sites and undertook such lovely acts of respect such as digging up the jew graveyards and using the headstones for paving stones. That's what the arabs did, and yet they have the temerity to cry about injustice.

 

It is remarkable that Pope Francis found his voice all of a sudden. He was silent when visiting Myanmar/Burma. No grand pronouncements on the ethnic cleansing.  He has been silent on the persecution of Christians in Syria and Iraq. He certainly hasn't spoken up on the sex crimes history of his organization as cases continue to be brought forward. And yet all of a sudden,  Francis speaks out on a minor event that really hasn't impugned anyone's civil rights or harmed anyone. Nice. 

 

President Trump has just  given the Arabs a wake up call. If they want to get something they are going to have to  talk to the Israelis and to act in good faith. Threatening to murder Americans, waging another intifada and all that other stuff just reinforces the Israeli position and proves Trump's assessment right.

 

The politicians of the EU may shake in their shoes, but the populations who have been over run by the economic migrants, bogus refugees and terrorists coming from the middle east don't care anymore. 

[dexterm]

16 minutes ago, geriatrickid said:

Nothing has really changed has it? What has changed exactly, aside from the USA finally accepting the reality.  Jerusalem has been Israel's capital since independence.   Yes, we all know  the arab world and its enablers do not accept the existence of Israel and demand that the jews be driven out.  Nothing new there. The muslims have been waging wars since their religion was started. Nothing new there either. The US recognition of a law it passed decades ago changes nothing. The corrupt arab administration in the west bank and Gaza will still receive their billions of Euro in welfare and will still carry on as before. The sectarian strife in  the middle east will  continue as before with muslims blowing up their mosques.

It is not as if the  arabs were serious about peace talks, because they have refused to do anything since the Camp David  agreement. One can  go back and forth on this, but historically, it has been the Israelis always making offers and the Arabs saying no, we want more. The Europeans huffing and puffing  have  conveniently forgotten that when the Arabs controlled east Jerusalem the forbid any jews from entering religious sites and undertook such lovely acts of respect such as digging up the jew graveyards and using the headstones for paving stones. That's what the arabs did, and yet they have the temerity to cry about injustice.

 

It is remarkable that Pope Francis found his voice all of a sudden. He was silent when visiting Myanmar/Burma. No grand pronouncements on the ethnic cleansing.  He has been silent on the persecution of Christians in Syria and Iraq. He certainly hasn't spoken up on the sex crimes history of his organization as cases continue to be brought forward. And yet all of a sudden,  Francis speaks out on a minor event that really hasn't impugned anyone's civil rights or harmed anyone. Nice. 

 

President Trump has just  given the Arabs a wake up call. If they want to get something they are going to have to  talk to the Israelis and to act in good faith. Threatening to murder Americans, waging another intifada and all that other stuff just reinforces the Israeli position and proves Trump's assessment right.

 

The politicians of the EU may shake in their shoes, but the populations who have been over run by the economic migrants, bogus refugees and terrorists coming from the middle east don't care anymore. 

The problem is the unnecessary confusion Trump has fostered.

 

Does he mean recognizing West Jerusalem as Israel's capital (The Palestinian Authority and the whole Arab world have already agreed to that in a final just peace deal with East Jerusalem as its own capital of Palestine)

 

or,

 

does he mean what Netanyahu means:   the whole of Jerusalem is the eternal and undivided capital of a Jewish state. And that the Palestinians have no hope of ever having a capital there... the non negotiable cornerstone of a two state solution peace plan.

 

Trump has deliberately? fudged it.

If he doesn't understand the difference himself or knew it would confuse and cause trouble, maybe he should have kept his mouth shut for now to give peace talks a chance.

Edited December 8, 2017 by dexterm

[mike324]

Trump might as well say Taiwan is an independent country too

 

[Morch]

32 minutes ago, dexterm said:

No inconsistency. Learn to read more carefully.

All roads lead to Rome...a unified secular truly democratic state of Palestine/ Israel/ Israelistine. Time frame...inevitable.

 

If Trump's foolish announcement leads to abandonment of two state solution peace talks, sad, but ultimately leads to one state solution...Israel's colonies facts on the ground, Jerusalem eternal undivided capital, insurmountable evacuations and land/resource swap problems etc etc seem to have made that inevitable...then good.

 

If Trump's foolish announcement (with a slight bit of wriggle room ...no final Jerusalem borders pre-empted..if he really means what he says) can somehow be overlooked  and peace talks are resumed leading to a two state solution (which as outlined above will eventually meld into one)..then also good and perhaps less painful.

 

Try to see the bigger picture and not focus too much on minutiae.

 

Spin it all  you like, you posted two contradictory statements. It has nothing to do with your waffle. And yes, I get it that "bigger picture" is a code word for "ignore my blunders"

 

 

 

 

[RuamRudy]

9 hours ago, Ahab said:

How can you have a "peace process" when simple and undeniable truths cannot be acknowledged? The Israeli Prime Minister, Israeli Parliament, and Israeli Supreme Court are all located in Jerusalem (the entire Israeli government), but we cannot call it the capitol or move our embassy there because the Palestinians don't want to believe that Jerusalem is the capitol of Israel (or that Israel has a right to exist).

If I call my cat a dog, does that make it so?

[Morch]

4 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

If I call my cat a dog, does that make it so?

 

There's a middle way...

 

[Ahab]

On ‎12‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 12:23 PM, RuamRudy said:

If I call my cat a dog, does that make it so?

Only if your cat is involved in the Palestinian peace process.

[Ahab]

On ‎12‎/‎8‎/‎2017 at 10:45 AM, mikebike said:

Its called freedom of speech. No one is telling the USA what to do with their crap. They are however advising on the possible consequences of such decisions.

Is there freedom of speech in any of the Arab countries?

[selftaopath]

On 12/7/2017 at 7:34 AM, wwest5829 said:

 

"The political benefits for Trump are unclear. The decision will thrill Republican conservatives and evangelical Christians who make up a large share of his political base." All should understand this is not just The Donald. He is doing this in response to his "base".....

I wouldn't be surprised if 45 received a pay day for his behaviors. He is all about money and himself. He is corrupt in every way. 

Edited December 11, 2017 by selftaopath

[selftaopath]

On 12/7/2017 at 8:10 AM, craigt3365 said:

Hyperbole?

https://www.salon.com/2017/11/17/trump-lies-9-times-a-day-on-average-lately_partner/

Trump lies 9 times a day on average lately

Here is what an expert researcher said:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/i-study-liars-ive-never-seen-one-like-president-trump/2017/12/07/4e529efe-da3f-11e7-a841-2066faf731ef_story.html?utm_term=.a52ceecd86ca

[mikebike]

4 hours ago, Ahab said:

Is there freedom of speech in any of the Arab countries?

Obtuse? Or did the point just miss you by a lightyear?

[Ahab]

9 hours ago, mikebike said:

Obtuse? Or did the point just miss you by a lightyear?

My point was that there is zero "freedom of speech" in Arab countries. If your point is that there is freedom of speech in Arab countries, yes I missed it because it does not exist.

 

Obtuse, yes possibly.