Are juristic managers allowed to work the hours they please?

[Mike West]

We have one manager obsessed with the building, the person in at 7am out around 9pm, it is very daunting and frustrating having this person around the building.

In any job that I know of if a person is on site after their working hours then that person is trespassing, is that the same for a juristic manager? or anyone for that matter by Thai law? 

[trogers]

Juristic Manager or Building Manager?

 

A Juristic Manager is one who is elected by an AGM of co-owners in compliance with the Condo Act.

 

A Building Manager is just another employee for building maintenance.

[Mike West]

yeah a Juristic Manager, she was appointed by the building's committee. My wife and I are co owners.  Her mere presence is cringe worthy to say the least. My wife's family won't visit because of her. Anyway we were just wondering if they had certain hours, and then have to leave the premises. thanks 

[trogers]

8 minutes ago, Mike West said:

yeah a Juristic Manager, she was appointed by the building's committee. My wife and I are co owners.  Her mere presence is cringe worthy to say the least. My wife's family won't visit because of her. Anyway we were just wondering if they had certain hours, and then have to leave the premises. thanks 

The committee cannot appoint a Juristic Manager. Only the votes of co-owners in an AGM can.

 

A building manager can be appointed by the committee.

 

The difference is important. A Juristic Manager is not an employee. A building manager is.

 

My Juristic Manager sometimes come down from his unit at 2am to check on the security guards.

Edited December 7, 2017 by trogers

[Mike West]

YES!!!! that's what I meant, lol  I did say in the title Juristic Manager. yes the one appointed by co-owners at the AGM.  sorry for the confusion. 

Are they allowed to hang around the building all night imputing their delusional powers? We have gone through 5 receptionists in 3 months due to the same reason, they could not stand her. She is basically cancer to the building, and many co owners keep her in, as they either rent their units out, or are just used to her. and can't be bothered finding a new one. 

[trogers]

9 minutes ago, Mike West said:

YES!!!! that's what I meant, lol  I did say in the title Juristic Manager. yes the one appointed by co-owners at the AGM.  sorry for the confusion. 

Are they allowed to hang around the building all night imputing their delusional powers? We have gone through 5 receptionists in 3 months due to the same reason, they could not stand her. She is basically cancer to the building, and many co owners keep her in, as they either rent their units out, or are just used to her. and can't be bothered finding a new one. 

Perhaps she is the only one who seeks that post, while many co-owners do not bother being involved in the state of the project and would not volunteer.

 

Only the votes of co-owners in a EOGM or in the next AGM can get the Juristic Manager replaced, if there is a challenger for the post. Only a Thai can be the Juristic Manager. A foreigner needs a work permit for that post.

[Mike West]

 my only question was can they hang around the building after hours or anytime the please?

I am not asking here if who and how they she be replaced. you are answering questions I am not even asking, where did I say we wanted a falang in the role? 

 

 

 

[trogers]

6 minutes ago, Mike West said:

 my only question was can they hang around the building after hours or anytime the please?

I am not asking here if who and how they she be replaced. you are answering questions I am not even asking, where did I say we wanted a falang in the role? 

 

 

 

Yes, she can. Just like my Juristic Manager popping to check on the state of the project. She is not an employee with specific working hours.

Edited December 7, 2017 by trogers

[Mike West]

3 minutes ago, trogers said:

Yes, she can. Just like my Juristic Manager popping to check on the state of the project. She is not an employee with specific working hours.

well they shouldn't be, she is totally obsessed with the place. Has no life obviously. My wife and her family absolutely hate her. 

[trogers]

Just now, Mike West said:

well they shouldn't be, she is totally obsessed with the place. Has no life obviously. My wife and her family absolutely hate her. 

Get your wife to volunteer for the post in the next AGM...

[Mike West]

1 minute ago, trogers said:

Get your wife to volunteer for the post in the next AGM...

She wont do it, she hates confrontation as is working towards her own business ventures with her sisters, so I am thinking we will rent the place out soon anyway. I made friends with a few co onwers in the building that share my annoyances, so hopefully their votes count. thanks 

[trogers]

Just now, Mike West said:

She wont do it, she hates confrontation as is working towards her own business ventures with her sisters, so I am thinking we will rent the place out soon anyway. I made friends with a few co onwers in the building that share my annoyances, so hopefully their votes count. thanks 

In my hunt to buy my first investment condo in 2007, I turned down an offer in a project in Asoke area because the atmosphere at the lobby was too cold and military like.

 

Orderly and clean...but lifeless. ??

[Mike West]

yeah our building feels abandoned and cold. Military like too. 

[Delight]

 The law states that the condo building must have a Manager.

This Manager is an employee of the condo. The condominium pays the wages .The full title is Condominium Juritic Person Manager  -JPM for convenience

What is unique about the appointment is that at least 25% of the total condo vote need to agree the appointment

 

The JPM reports to the committee

 

The committee has control over the JPM -this statement assumes that all requests to the JPM are within the law.

 

Typically internal and external suppliers report to the JPM.

 

Ask the committee to resolve your concerns.

 

 

[huawei]

Are we talking about the person who sits in the office and managers the day to day activities of the building. Isn't that the building condo manager who should be on site.

 

The juristic manager, is usually an employee of the managing company who resides at head office, signs certain legal contracts etc..ever hardly see him/her.

 

Which one? 

[Delight]

11 minutes ago, huawei said:

Are we talking about the person who sits in the office and managers the day to day activities of the building. Isn't that the building condo manager who should be on site.

 

The juristic manager, is usually an employee of the managing company who resides at head office, signs certain legal contracts etc..ever hardly see him/her.

 

Which one? 

 The law states that a JPM is required

The law also states that certain JPM duties can be delegated to one other person

That other person is the building manager. This is not a legal requirement . Very small condos who chose not to employ a management company will not need one

I appears that the OP's condo is in that catergory

The usual arrangement when a manangement company is employed as  JPM  is a you describe -i.e you never see them. A building manager supplied by the managment company does all the day to day stuff.

Sometimes  a condo will employ theit own building and use the management company for JPM services only

In my building we use QPM . They charge us monthly. They supply the building manager -the cost of which is in the fee

They also supply the JPM -which they claim is for free. So in that sense srogers is correct - the JPM is not an employee. Just a  legally selected volunteer.

 

Either way the  JPM -which ever way they are supplied - will grab as much power as posssible

 

Conflicts between  the committee and JPM is a standard feature in most condos -I guess.

Except that there is no conflict. The committee simply acquiesce

 

 

You just have to get on with it

[huawei]

If I wanted to use a Managing company just to do the JPM services, would those just be as prescribed in the condo..

 

I like this model as most managing agents just seem to be body shops any suggestions as to what activities they should do..the only one I can really think of other than any legal requirements is using their accountant.

 

given the JPM has legal responsibilities..why would a ' sane' co- owner ( Thai) want to take on that role.

 

The committee should help him...they probably won't..some you never see!

[joebrown]

I hope I haven't missed a previous post which answers my question which is......How ever did this 'problem' JP get voted into office? Usually, a JP is chosen by the co-owners based on some creditable previous behaviour and character. Perhaps you can explain how the co-owners brought this 'cancer' upon themselves?

BTW, I have previously owned a condo in Jomtien, which now has a female JPM. Hope it's not the same one!

[huawei]

^^^

 

every 2 years a JPM needs to be voted in, also the committee..the committee gets the proxies of completely disinterested co- owners, absent owners etc..they use the proxies to their own benefit, vote themselves back in, plus JPM..

 

its called Apathy..

[AsiaCheese]

8 hours ago, Delight said:

What is unique about the appointment is that at least 25% of the total condo vote need to agree the appointment

 

Do you happen to have a source for the 25% figure? The JPM of the building I live in was voted out with 29% of votes of attending co-owners at AGM, but the comittee decided that a 51% vote would be necessary to sack her - and that was that...

[trogers]

15 hours ago, huawei said:

 

given the JPM has legal responsibilities..why would a ' sane' co- owner ( Thai) want to take on that role.

 

Retired senior government officials. Some like the feel of power back in their heads...

 

And the consequence, the atmosphere in the common areas, especially the lobby, is like a government office, just prettier.

Edited December 7, 2017 by trogers

[Jeffkp]

21 hours ago, huawei said:

Are we talking about the person who sits in the office and managers the day to day activities of the building. Isn't that the building condo manager who should be on site.

 

The juristic manager, is usually an employee of the managing company who resides at head office, signs certain legal contracts etc..ever hardly see him/her.

 

Which one? 

Not the case in my building. We hired an outside company to manage the building. They provide the JPM (and all other staff), but the JPM works in our building and reports to the Owners committee.

I chair that committee.

Have you filed a formal complaint with your committee? Do you have a specific complaint other than you do not like her?

[Delight]

14 hours ago, AsiaCheese said:

 

Do you happen to have a source for the 25% figure? The JPM of the building I live in was voted out with 29% of votes of attending co-owners at AGM, but the comittee decided that a 51% vote would be necessary to sack her - and that was that...

  The condo act is my source

The relevant section states

Section 49 A resolution relating to the following matters shall receive the votes of not less than one fourth of the joint owners’ total votes:

(1) Appointment or removal of the Manager,
(2) Stipulation on the business which the Manager has the power to assign the other person to carry out on his behalf.

[trogers]

24 minutes ago, Delight said:

  The condo act is my source

The relevant section states

Section 49 A resolution relating to the following matters shall receive the votes of not less than one fourth of the joint owners’ total votes:

 

(1) Appointment or removal of the Manager,
(2) Stipulation on the business which the Manager has the power to assign the other person to carry out on his behalf.

 

Keywords here is "joint owners' total votes". Not total votes of only those present in the meeting.

[Mike West]

On 12/7/2017 at 6:10 PM, huawei said:

Are we talking about the person who sits in the office and managers the day to day activities of the building. Isn't that the building condo manager who should be on site.

 

The juristic manager, is usually an employee of the managing company who resides at head office, signs certain legal contracts etc..ever hardly see him/her.

 

Which one? 

no, my lawyers checked already, the developers have left, and now the committee are in control and brought in the current manger from outside. Each year at the AGM all co-owners get a vote. My question is, if I don't want her, do I need to have another person ready to vote for as a potential replacement, or can I simply say NO to the current manager? 

[Mike West]

On 12/7/2017 at 8:35 PM, joebrown said:

I hope I haven't missed a previous post which answers my question which is......How ever did this 'problem' JP get voted into office? Usually, a JP is chosen by the co-owners based on some creditable previous behaviour and character. Perhaps you can explain how the co-owners brought this 'cancer' upon themselves?

BTW, I have previously owned a condo in Jomtien, which now has a female JPM. Hope it's not the same one!

the previous Manger stole over 2M baht from the sinking fund and took off, I guess she was the only option. 

[Mike West]

On 12/7/2017 at 11:44 PM, huawei said:

^^^

 

every 2 years a JPM needs to be voted in, also the committee..the committee gets the proxies of completely disinterested co- owners, absent owners etc..they use the proxies to their own benefit, vote themselves back in, plus JPM..

 

its called Apathy..

how do I appoint proxies? does it have to be in writing?

[Mike West]

On 12/8/2017 at 10:43 AM, trogers said:

Retired senior government officials. Some like the feel of power back in their heads...

 

And the consequence, the atmosphere in the common areas, especially the lobby, is like a government office, just prettier.

yes, this is exactly how it is, she seems like a previous government official. Saying she is power hungry, is a total understatement. 

[Mike West]

18 hours ago, trogers said:

Keywords here is "joint owners' total votes". Not total votes of only those present in the meeting.

Do we, I need to be at the AGM to vote? or do I need a proxy etc to sit in on my behalf? thanks to all

[Mike West]

20 hours ago, Jeffkp said:

Not the case in my building. We hired an outside company to manage the building. They provide the JPM (and all other staff), but the JPM works in our building and reports to the Owners committee.

I chair that committee.

Have you filed a formal complaint with your committee? Do you have a specific complaint other than you do not like her?

yes a formal legal notice from my lawyer has been issued for defamation, and a official police report has been lodged already, a week after the incident.