Failure of previous educational reforms admitted as new solutions proposed

By CHULARAT SAENGPASSA 
THE NATION

 

Education Minister Teerakiat Jareonsettasin

 

FAR FROM improving Thailand’s educational sector, the establishment of provincial education committees has caused serious problems that instead require their own solutions.

 

Education Minister Teerakiat Jareonsettasin recently disclosed that he would propose that National Council for Peace and Order (NCPO) chief and Prime Minister General Prayut Chan-o-cha amend his order that set up the committees. 

 

In April, Prayut exercised his special powers as the NCPO chief to introduce the provincial committees in the hope of stimulating educational reform. 

 

The committees were expected to promote the integration of relevant agencies and to end problems relating to bribes offered in exchange for positions and transfers of educational personnel and teachers.

 

 

However, after the committees began operating, several problems emerged, including rising educational personnel expenses and delays in human resources management. 

 

Directors of educational service area offices have also vigorously protested against the establishment of the committees, which have taken away their power to decide on performance evaluations, salary adjustments and various other personnel-management affairs.

 

Earlier this week, Teerakiat confirmed he would propose that two separate committees be set up in each province to replace the existing provincial education committees.

The first committee will integrate efforts under the Basic Education Commission, Private Education Commission, Non-Formal and Informal Education Commission, and Vocational Education Commission. The second will handle human resources for the educational sector such as the hiring and transfers of education officials, with directors of regional educational offices serving as ex-officio committee members.

 

Professor Sompong Jitradub, a lecturer at the Chulalongkorn University’s Faculty of Education, said yesterday he agreed with the proposed solution. 

 

Conflicts created

 

“During the past months, there have been so many problems between the directors of educational service areas and provincial education committees,” he said. 

 

Sompong said after talking to relevant figures in 16 provinces, he had found there were redundancies that added red tape and caused conflicts. 

 

“Contrary to initial expectations, efforts have not been integrated,” he said. 

 

Sompong added that the provincial education committees had spent 90 per cent of their time handling personnel affairs and had little time to focus on educational quality. 

 

Moreover, he said he had noticed that personnel expenses had increased since the establishment of the committees. 

 

“Personnel expenses have increased from 70 to 80 per cent of the budget of the Education Ministry, lowering the percentage of money schools and students receive,” Sompong said. 

 

Tanachon Mutaporn, who chairs a club of regional educational directors, said he also agreed with the reported solution. 

 

“It’s exactly what I proposed to the Education Ministry during General Dapong Ratanasuwan’s tenure as education minister,” he said.

 

Setting up a committee to handle personnel affairs would allow the other committee to focus on educational integration and improvement, Tanachon said.

 

“The committee on personnel affairs will also help prevent corruption and bribery related to transfers and appointments,” Tanachon said. 

 

Office of Basic Education Commission secretary-general Boonrux Yodpheth said the committee would balance the power of regional directors to ensure good governance. “There will be checks-and-balances mechanisms,” he said.

 

Source: http://www.nationmultimedia.com/detail/national/30333527

 

 

-- © Copyright The Nation 2017-12-09

7 minutes ago, rooster59 said:

Earlier this week, Teerakiat confirmed he would propose that two separate committees be set up in each province to replace the existing provincial education committees.

For god's sake, establishing more committees is not going to solve the problems in the Thai education system! To put it bluntly, what problem has ever been solved through the establishment of extra committees?

 

If you want to make progress in improving the Thai education system, outright fire 50% of the staff at the Ministry of Education. These are the people who created a bureaucratic monster; they are not the people who can slay it.

 

Clean out the bad Teachers and empower the good ones.

Clean out the bad Principals and empower the good ones.

Clean out the bad Administrators in the Ministry and empower the good ones.

 

If schools cannot achieve reasonable results on the standardized tests, implement a clean out of staff, both teachers and administrators alike, where needed.

 

If Thailand wants to have a good future, she needs a well-educated populace that can adapt and overcome the challenges that are coming. At the moment she is unable to do so.

 

Period.

 

22 minutes ago, rooster59 said:

“Personnel expenses have increased from 70 to 80 per cent of the budget of the Education Ministry, lowering the percentage of money schools and students receive,”

Which probably explains why Thai kids only get 20% or so of an education. Too many chiefs at the top in committee after committee, sucking off the money, leaving insufficient funds for the actual education process. And their answer to this is to suggest more committees! And of course, given the perceived brilliance and superiority of Thais in general, looking overseas for intelligent solutions is beneath them, leaving millions of halfwits exiting the schools for years to come.

All Thai government school teachers should have to move every 5 years to keep them learning and on their toes. I've seen so many just sat in the same job for 20 + years. They've got their own little cozy office, with it's own reclining chair and coffee corner, students drop by to give them massages [and sometimes visa versa]. Their own learning cycle ended years ago, unless you count Facebook, and Thai movies as learning, all the other teachers bow down to them, their English is poor at best, and they teach 10 hours a week.They've got their after school, extra study center, just around the corner from the school, which they aggressively promote during regular school lessons, and students 'have  to' attend if they want good grades.

 

Kick them all out.

You wonder if the powers that be, really want a highly educated society,

an educated population that thinks for itself,is harder to feed B/S to

and control.

regards worgeordie

52 minutes ago, Samui Bodoh said:

For god's sake, establishing more committees is not going to solve the problems in the Thai education system! To put it bluntly, what problem has ever been solved through the establishment of extra committees?

 

If you want to make progress in improving the Thai education system, outright fire 50% of the staff at the Ministry of Education. These are the people who created a bureaucratic monster; they are not the people who can slay it.

 

Clean out the bad Teachers and empower the good ones.

Clean out the bad Principals and empower the good ones.

Clean out the bad Administrators in the Ministry and empower the good ones.

 

If schools cannot achieve reasonable results on the standardized tests, implement a clean out of staff, both teachers and administrators alike, where needed.

 

If Thailand wants to have a good future, she needs a well-educated populace that can adapt and overcome the challenges that are coming. At the moment she is unable to do so.

 

Period.

 

I love all this Byzantine-Game of Thrones stuff.

 

It is all a perfect sham really.

 

No-one has any intention of fixing up Education,Road Safety,"Democracy" etc -nominate what you will-it is all about the size of the trough and who gets what in the vast and ever present patronage/clientele system.

 

There is not a single Thai in the country who is neutral or disinterested in such a system.

 

Tragically entertaining.

that proposal mentions actual education one time,the rest is about saving their worthless asses...stop f&*(ing with our childrens education you old fools...

1 hour ago, darksidedog said:

looking overseas for intelligent solutions is beneath them

agreed; and another overlooked asset is here , right in front of them, the expats;

many expats are currently in the education system here or have been,

add that to the many that served in their home countries as professionals; a vital capable,reforming advisory staff;

yet the thais are too nationalist and xenophobic to take advantage of such assistance

it appears that the ones making the decisions arent worried about the actual education of the kids but more about how much they can make, why do they need so many committees, all the schools should be run the same way with the same education standards. They have 80% of the education budget spent on these stupid committees instead of the schools and the kids education, is it any wonder many students in Thailand are still illiterate, time to remove all the committees, appoint a proper education board to set the standards & run thew schooling nation wide and put the money back into teaching the students not lining the committees pockets

1 hour ago, Jeremy50 said:

All Thai government school teachers should have to move every 5 years to keep them learning and on their toes. I've seen so many just sat in the same job for 20 + years. They've got their own little cozy office, with it's own reclining chair and coffee corner, students drop by to give them massages [and sometimes visa versa]. Their own learning cycle ended years ago, unless you count Facebook, and Thai movies as learning, all the other teachers bow down to them, their English is poor at best, and they teach 10 hours a week.They've got their after school, extra study center, just around the corner from the school, which they aggressively promote during regular school lessons, and students 'have  to' attend if they want good grades.

 

Kick them all out.

I disagree, just imagine if you were forced to move around every 5 years changing where you live. Not really a job anyone would want. I agree with improving quality but you can do that without moving people around. 

Can't help but agree with all the above comments. The system in its present form is by any standards an abomination.

It is an oligarchy controlled by some of the most self serving, morally bankrupt people on the face of the earth. Even the article talks about the committees swallowing up xxxxx amount of money, and then talks about the need to set up other committees who are just as likely to ramp up the corruption to new heights as they are to steer this battered and broken ship on a new (read better) course.

 

I am fortunate enough to work with some truly wonderful kids here. They deserve so much better than the current shit shower ?

Edited December 9, 20178 yr by z42
Figures rejig for Robblok ;)

Just now, z42 said:

Can't help but agree with all the above comments. The system in its present form is by any standards an abomination.

It is an oligarchy controlled by some of the most self serving, morally bankrupt people on the face of the earth. Even the article talks about the committees swallowing up 80% of the budgets, and then talks about the need to set up other committees who are just as likely to ramp up the corruption to new heights as they are to steer this battered and broken ship on a new (read better) course.

 

I am fortunate enough to work with some truly wonderful kids here. They deserve so much better than the current shit shower ?

 

I hope you don't teach English, because that was not what the article stated. it stated that the wages part of the budget rose from 70% to 80%. That means teachers and probably the committees together got a higher salary. So that would be at best (if teachers kept earning the same) 10% of the wages attributed to the committees. I would not call that swallowing up 80% of the budget. 

Failure of previous educational reforms admitted.... 

I'm educated enough to believe that.

15 minutes ago, seajae said:

it appears that the ones making the decisions arent worried about the actual education of the kids but more about how much they can make, why do they need so many committees, all the schools should be run the same way with the same education standards. They have 80% of the education budget spent on these stupid committees instead of the schools and the kids education, is it any wonder many students in Thailand are still illiterate, time to remove all the committees, appoint a proper education board to set the standards & run thew schooling nation wide and put the money back into teaching the students not lining the committees pockets

They have not spend 80% of the budget on the committees, but I agree that having committees is certainly not a good solution. There should be less bureaucratie, though taking away the power from the directors of a school and placing it elsewhere was a good step to slash corruption. Provided of course that the new ones in charge can't contact those whose salaries they control and vice versa. The director was always in direct contact with his employees and I heard many stories of teachers having to bribe the director for a better salary. 

thai politicians are only worried about getting a share of they money going around...never ever think they care about, your childs education....if you ask me a good place to start is to begin the transformation to a completely English speaking country and put this primitive thai language in a museum where it belongs...I see my child wasting hours upon hours learning this ridiculous language..or is that lidicurous ranguage...

Edited December 9, 20178 yr by mok199
speliing

28 minutes ago, robblok said:

I disagree, just imagine if you were forced to move around every 5 years changing where you live. Not really a job anyone would want. I agree with improving quality but you can do that without moving people around. 

happens to judges

1 minute ago, AGareth2 said:

happens to judges

In Thailand ? and I can understand it would apply to certain professions but only high paying real important positions. There are just too many teachers to make this practical plus they are not paid enough for expenses like that. Just my views here I understand the problem of people staying to long at one position but this is quite an extreme measure making a career in teaching a lot less interesting.

 

so that provincial judges don't amass too great an influence in an area

2 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

so that provincial judges don't amass too great an influence in an area

Great, but I think you understand there is a lot of difference between the power of a judge and his salary than that of the average teacher. For judges, i agree they are well paid know its part of the job and do an really important job. I don't agree that teachers are paid enough and / or that they are important enough to warrant this. If they got a higher salary then yes.

free accommodation would help but

moving teachers around is not the answer

continual compulsory training might help

11 minutes ago, AGareth2 said:

free accommodation would help but

moving teachers around is not the answer

continual compulsory training might help

That is something that would help for sure, for me its quite normal to keep training myself (for my job) I think in many jobs it this way already. It would be even more important in education to keep yourself updated.

Edited December 9, 20178 yr by robblok

So, fresh from the fray of yet more failed initiatives and policies, they are busy busy busy preparing more failed initiatives and policies.

 

So what's the current plan? Create 2 more committees.

 

That'll work.

 

What is it with these people, they can't win for losing but it's never their fault for being losers. Always someone else's fault.

 

 

Edited December 9, 20178 yr by Sid Celery

Just now, Sid Celery said:

So, fresh from the fray of yet more failed initiatives and policies, they are busy busy busy preparing moree failed initiatives and policies.

 

So what;s the current plan? Create 2 more committees.

 

That'll work.

 

What is it with these people, they can't win for losing but it's never their fault for being losers. Always someone else's fault.

 

 

Thai education has been a failure for a real long time so its hard to place the blame. It certainly is not a case of not funding it enough. I read somewhere that Thai education is funded quite well compared to other countries. 

 

As for committees, I agree more bureaucratie is in general not a good idea, though I don't have any other idea's on how to improve the education myself. Its too bureaucratic maybe not enough teachers and too much supporting staff ?. 

1 minute ago, robblok said:

Thai education has been a failure for a real long time so its hard to place the blame. It certainly is not a case of not funding it enough. I read somewhere that Thai education is funded quite well compared to other countries. 

 

As for committees, I agree more bureaucratie is in general not a good idea, though I don't have any other idea's on how to improve the education myself. Its too bureaucratic maybe not enough teachers and too much supporting staff ?. 

"Thai education has been a failure for a real long time so its hard to place the blame."

 

No it isn't - Thais are to blame. Some for being incompetent, many for being corrupt, many for chasing their own rainbows instead of doing a good job, still others for blindly and stupidly accepting what is handed to them.

 

Attributing blame is the easiest and most correct thing in the world. Thais are to blame. Collectively.

5 minutes ago, robblok said:

Thai education has been a failure for a real long time so its hard to place the blame. It certainly is not a case of not funding it enough. I read somewhere that Thai education is funded quite well compared to other countries. 

 

As for committees, I agree more bureaucratie is in general not a good idea, though I don't have any other idea's on how to improve the education myself. Its too bureaucratic maybe not enough teachers and too much supporting staff ?. 

 

Endemic incompetence and corruption, same as in all primitive societies. Look anywhere in hot climates, it's everywhere where there are primitive societies. Africa, Middle East, SE Asia.Central America. It's a human development thing. That's not to say there aren't piggies with snouts in the trough everywhere - the USA probably has it down to the finest art form, but in hot climates it seems to be a part of the growing up process and given the population antecedents in America, it's probably  not that surprising..

2 hours ago, worgeordie said:

You wonder if the powers that be, really want a highly educated society,

an educated population that thinks for itself,is harder to feed B/S to

and control.

regards worgeordie

I think we all wonder the same......

Unfortunately, to admit defeat of a failed system which should cause some (many) to be moved on, won't happen. Krenjai!

15 minutes ago, ChrisY1 said:

I think we all wonder the same......

Unfortunately, to admit defeat of a failed system which should cause some (many) to be moved on, won't happen. Krenjai!

 

I thought this had been pretty much put to bed - the amaat want cheap maids, gardeners, road sweepers and construction labourers. Some have said on TV that this is why they 'like to look after Isaan' (don't laugh, it's true).

 

So. "Keep poor and keep em stupid" is the cry from the rich and powerful. Worked well for them so far.

 

It seems to me that very few rich Thais got rich by being smart, being industrious and being honest. Mostly they are either Sino-Thais or Thais who follow the Sino-Thai traditions of corruption and patronage (which is just another form of corruption)

 

It isn't going to change, Thais will sink back into the morass they crawled out of; it started a while ago and it's still happening. Unfortunately there are always those who will profit by having their snout in the trough, in good times or bad. So as the Thai civilisation sinks, the pigs will still be at it. It's sinking now and they're at the trough now, it isn't going to stop.

 

Surprisingly though, they do have their defenders. They'll be along soon.

 

 

Edited December 9, 20178 yr by Sid Celery

14 minutes ago, Sid Celery said:

"Thai education has been a failure for a real long time so its hard to place the blame."

 

No it isn't - Thais are to blame. Some for being incompetent, many for being corrupt, many for chasing their own rainbows instead of doing a good job, still others for blindly and stupidly accepting what is handed to them.

 

Attributing blame is the easiest and most correct thing in the world. Thais are to blame. Collectively.

While it is hard to dispute that Thais are to blame for the Thai education system, I think a little more specificity is needed.

 

It is a management failure. And that is why in my first post I suggested firing 50% of the Education Ministry staff immediately.

 

The root problem is that there is little impetus to change. A bright, young teacher graduates college and then begins the bureaucratic crap to get a job; bucking the system at that point is career suicide. Next, a teacher gets a job and wants to introduce new ideas and concepts to the system, but is stymied by the 'old-timers' who are threatened by change. Further, the 'old-timers' have great influence over management by virtue of being old and there for a long time. Moving along, teachers in Thailand have to complete various bureaucratic BS in order to have qualifications (and thus salaries) raised, so trying new ideas in the classroom is contraindicated. Adding to the mix is the endless nonsense associated with being a teacher in Thailand; the students must learn Prayut's 12 bits of noise and other useless things. By the time a teacher is able and secure enough to introduce new ideas, s/he is an 'old-timer' thwarting the newcomers.

 

I would also give a shout out to the parents; if they would complain then things would change, but they don't, at least not loudly enough.

 

Finally, you come to the Granddaddy of the system; the Ministry of Education. They have spent years and years building the system and don't want to see it destroyed. Further, those at the top promote like-minded people, so there is continuity for the idea of not changing things.

 

If you want to change the system, you start at the Principal level. You introduce the idea that his salary either rises or falls a bit depending on how the students do on the standardized tests. Next, you give him the power to promote/demote/hire/fire teachers in pursuit of higher standardized scores. And if results fall below a certain point, automatic dismissal. 

 

And above all else, fire 80% of the people working at the Ministry of Education. Immediately. Then make them re-apply for their jobs and force them to justify their positions.

 

I know, I know, it isn't going to happen, but...

 

Thailand faces an existential threat to its status in SE Asia. Vietnam is already going to pass it by, and even Burma has the potential to do so. If Thailand wants to have a good future, it needs drastic measures to reform and repair its education system. 

 

I would LOVE to see them do it, but I ain't holding my breath.

 

1 hour ago, Samui Bodoh said:

While it is hard to dispute that Thais are to blame for the Thai education system, I think a little more specificity is needed.

 

It is a management failure. And that is why in my first post I suggested firing 50% of the Education Ministry staff immediately.

 

The root problem is that there is little impetus to change. A bright, young teacher graduates college and then begins the bureaucratic crap to get a job; bucking the system at that point is career suicide. Next, a teacher gets a job and wants to introduce new ideas and concepts to the system, but is stymied by the 'old-timers' who are threatened by change. Further, the 'old-timers' have great influence over management by virtue of being old and there for a long time. Moving along, teachers in Thailand have to complete various bureaucratic BS in order to have qualifications (and thus salaries) raised, so trying new ideas in the classroom is contraindicated. Adding to the mix is the endless nonsense associated with being a teacher in Thailand; the students must learn Prayut's 12 bits of noise and other useless things. By the time a teacher is able and secure enough to introduce new ideas, s/he is an 'old-timer' thwarting the newcomers.

 

I would also give a shout out to the parents; if they would complain then things would change, but they don't, at least not loudly enough.

 

Finally, you come to the Granddaddy of the system; the Ministry of Education. They have spent years and years building the system and don't want to see it destroyed. Further, those at the top promote like-minded people, so there is continuity for the idea of not changing things.

 

If you want to change the system, you start at the Principal level. You introduce the idea that his salary either rises or falls a bit depending on how the students do on the standardized tests. Next, you give him the power to promote/demote/hire/fire teachers in pursuit of higher standardized scores. And if results fall below a certain point, automatic dismissal. 

 

And above all else, fire 80% of the people working at the Ministry of Education. Immediately. Then make them re-apply for their jobs and force them to justify their positions.

 

I know, I know, it isn't going to happen, but...

 

Thailand faces an existential threat to its status in SE Asia. Vietnam is already going to pass it by, and even Burma has the potential to do so. If Thailand wants to have a good future, it needs drastic measures to reform and repair its education system. 

 

I would LOVE to see them do it, but I ain't holding my breath.

 

"Thailand faces an existential threat to its status in SE Asia."

 

This is, in my opinion the most important among a series of important points you make. I have made in different threads, the point, that I believe Thais are now locked into an evolutionary decline. They compare very badly with other countries in what they have actually achieved, in whatever forum you care to choose, Thais are not to be found anywhere on the achievement table.

 

Sport, education, scientific importance, et al.

 

None contain any Thai names. They are in a developmental blind alley and are now in what I believe is a terminal societal decline.

 

Still, looking at the plus side: things will get cheaper as these primitives die off. It will take 50 -100 years imho, which is very, very fast in evolutionary terms. Their demise will come with a shocking swiftness. Thailand and Thais are, in my opinion, finished, and nobody will shed a tear because they've made themselves unwelcome and unloved in civilised society everywhere. First, they will lose their markets, then they're dead in the water. Even the uncivilised Burmese (vide the treatment of the Rohingya) are, as you correctly say, going to pass them by.

 

Strong words? Yes. I've tried milder words but they just don't work.

 

 

Edited December 9, 20178 yr by Sid Celery

The traditional Thai response to fix any problem. Form a committee or if necessary multiple committees. In this case it is forming new committees to replace the previously failed committees. This is what happens when there are unqualified military types and incompetent self serving bureaucratic fat cats running the country. 

Corruption within the education system is rampant which doesn't help. It's right up there in the big league with the police and customs.