Council Tax UK and Thai Wife

[CeeGee]

Some years ago there was a discussion on this forum about the effect on your council tax (UK) after bringing your wife (fiancé) to live in the UK with you. But nothing recently.

Opinion at that time seemed to be divided,(with factors like working tax credits, student etc complicating the issue) one saying she has no effect until she has ILR, others getting a rebate because they have paid for her (i.e. no 25% discount for single occupancy).Citizens Advice bureau saying she is not liable, not have to pay until she is on the electoral roll etc but no actual firm answer.

 

Does anyone have any update?. I know from speaking to various people that the councils default answer is you have to pay from day one but they give this answer to almost any query about payment until you challenge them.

No other benefits involved just the straight council tax reduction

So has anyone had a definitive answer, with direction to the relevant documentation?

Thanks

[steve187]

you will need to pay for her from day one, otherwise everyone not on a  ILR would not be paying, thats a big lost money stream for the council, the only exception i would see if she is a student

[bobrussell]

If she is resident in the UK (any settlement visa) then it is quite clear cut that Council Tax needs to be paid.

If someone is here on a visit visa then by definition they are only visitors therefore in theory should not affect the Council Tax. Some councils appear to disagree with this therefore I would discuss this with the Council Tax department.

 

[CeeGee]

Thank you for both your replies, may I ask, are your answers based on specific instances or your perception of how the rules should be interpreted?.I ask because if you look back at the answers given a few years ago there seems to be a wide range of answers from various sources.I know from dealing with my own council they will automatically say something should be paid and it is only when you show them the actual regulations that they back down.

It was suggested previously things like being on the electoral register etc would influence if council tax should be paid.

If the tax has to be paid, I have no problem with that but I am just trying to confirm the actual circumstances that it should be paid.(rather like dealing with the VATman who by default says you owe VAT if they say so until such time that you can prove you do not).Has anyone actually gone down this path with their council? "Some councils appear to disagree with this "

Again to both posters thank you for your replies.

Edited December 12, 2017 by CeeGee

[rasg]

I put my wife in the Council Tax the same week that she arrived here on her engagement/marriage visa. The documents provided by the council were handy for the next visa (FLR). I asked the same question of the council and they said I had to pay which was fine.

[bobrussell]

My council stated initially that I should lose the single occupancy discount when my wife was here. When I made it clear she was on a visit visa they took further advice and reinstated it. A visitor being, by definition, a temporary occupant rather than a resident.

I was quite surprised to find others had councils that considered a visitor to be a resident but it clearly is open for interpretation.

I did not have much of an issue either way as she was using some of the facilities provided by the council. That is why I contacted them in the first place.

If the persons main residence is elsewhere then there should not be a tax liability.

Assuming that we are talking about a visit visa then you could pay full rate for the time there are two occupants but then claim the discount when only one is living there.

Someone going back and forth for a few weeks at a time would normally be ignored for Council Tax.

All clear as mud so ask you council.

Clearly if your wife is here on a non-visit visa then she is resident!

 

Edited December 12, 2017 by bobrussell

[CeeGee]

Thank you,I will probably notify the council on day one start paying and then think about asking them if they will change their mind.Not much hope but maybe they are one of the councils interpret the rules differently.

thanks for the info

[steve187]

you don't say unless i missed it is what type of visa the visitor would be arriving on, if settlement then pay on first occupancy, if a visit visa then no need to declare she is living there. if on a fiancee visa then well, that's a mix of the 2, so who knows.

[rockingrobin]

12 hours ago, CeeGee said:

Thank you for both your replies, may I ask, are your answers based on specific instances or your perception of how the rules should be interpreted?.I ask because if you look back at the answers given a few years ago there seems to be a wide range of answers from various sources.I know from dealing with my own council they will automatically say something should be paid and it is only when you show them the actual regulations that they back down.

It was suggested previously things like being on the electoral register etc would influence if council tax should be paid.

If the tax has to be paid, I have no problem with that but I am just trying to confirm the actual circumstances that it should be paid.(rather like dealing with the VATman who by default says you owe VAT if they say so until such time that you can prove you do not).Has anyone actually gone down this path with their council? "Some councils appear to disagree with this "

Again to both posters thank you for your replies.

The relevent legislation 

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1992/14/section/6

 

It is left to the individual local authorities to intepret the rules , what is not commonly understood is the tax is not hypothecated and the authority can choose how to spend or not spend the revenue has it wishes.

 

[bobrussell]

As I see it from reading the legislation below, a visitor does not have a freehold interest, does not have any form of lease agreement nor any security of tenure or contractual right to live there, written or not. Therefore they would appear to be exempt and my council was right to continue with a single person occupancy until she became settled in the UK. Still one for the council to agree to and there is still the possibility of taking the moral high ground and paying for the time the visiting partner is staying in the UK:

 

"(2)A person falls within this subsection in relation to any chargeable dwelling and any day if, on that day—

(a)he is a resident of the dwelling and has a freehold interest in the whole or any part of it;

(b)he is such a resident and has a leasehold interest in the whole or any part of the dwelling which is not inferior to another such interest held by another such resident;

(c)he is both such a resident and a statutory [F1, secure or introductory tenant]of the whole or any part of the dwelling;

(d)he is such a resident and has a contractual licence to occupy the whole or any part of the dwelling;

(e)he is such a resident; or

(f)he is the owner of the dwelling."

[rockingrobin]

1 hour ago, bobrussell said:

As I see it from reading the legislation below, a visitor does not have a freehold interest, does not have any form of lease agreement nor any security of tenure or contractual right to live there, written or not. Therefore they would appear to be exempt and my council was right to continue with a single person occupancy until she became settled in the UK. Still one for the council to agree to and there is still the possibility of taking the moral high ground and paying for the time the visiting partner is staying in the UK:

 

"(2)A person falls within this subsection in relation to any chargeable dwelling and any day if, on that day—

(a)he is a resident of the dwelling and has a freehold interest in the whole or any part of it;

(b)he is such a resident and has a leasehold interest in the whole or any part of the dwelling which is not inferior to another such interest held by another such resident;

(c)he is both such a resident and a statutory [F1, secure or introductory tenant]of the whole or any part of the dwelling;

(d)he is such a resident and has a contractual licence to occupy the whole or any part of the dwelling;

(e)he is such a resident; or

(f)he is the owner of the dwelling."

I think the section quoted needs to be read in conjunction with section 1

' (1)The person who is liable to pay council tax in respect of any chargeable dwelling and any day is the person who falls within the first paragraph of subsection (2) below to apply, taking paragraph (a) of that subsection first, paragraph (b) next, and so on '

 

Thus creating an heirarchy of the person whose responsibility is to make the payments.  

[steve187]

3 hours ago, bobrussell said:

As I see it from reading the legislation below, a visitor does not have a freehold interest, does not have any form of lease agreement nor any security of tenure or contractual right to live there, written or not. Therefore they would appear to be exempt and my council was right to continue with a single person occupancy until she became settled in the UK. Still one for the council to agree to and there is still the possibility of taking the moral high ground and paying for the time the visiting partner is staying in the UK:

 

"(2)A person falls within this subsection in relation to any chargeable dwelling and any day if, on that day—

(a)he is a resident of the dwelling and has a freehold interest in the whole or any part of it;

(b)he is such a resident and has a leasehold interest in the whole or any part of the dwelling which is not inferior to another such interest held by another such resident;

(c)he is both such a resident and a statutory [F1, secure or introductory tenant]of the whole or any part of the dwelling;

(d)he is such a resident and has a contractual licence to occupy the whole or any part of the dwelling;

(e)he is such a resident; or

(f)he is the owner of the dwelling."

i agree the 2nd person is  not liable for the council tax, but because they are in the house the council tax payer is not eligible for the 25% discount

[bobrussell]

It seems that the local authority really makes the decision. At what stage does a visitor lead to loss of the 25% single occupancy discount?

3 weeks, 3 months, 3 months 3 days?

I would consider there is a degree of moral argument for losing this discount for longer term visitors. They are using some council facilities but are not going to be eligible for many of the services offered. Education, social care would be no but Police or the Fire Brigade might be yes as would bin men clearing the rubbish bags.

There really does not seem to be a simple answer. As stated before, check with the local council and accept their decision. My council said the discount remained in place.