Work Permit Blues . . . .

[robsamui]

I had my wallet stolen a month ago with everything in it (just came back from a border run) - passport, WP, driving licence and bank cards.

 

The replacement UK passport came back after 3 weeks - during which time my WP had gone past the renewal date by 2 days.

The Labor Department refused to acknowledge that I had been continually employed for the last 12 years, or that I now had a stamp on my replacement passport from immigration indicating that I had a Non-Im B visa with an extension date that was later then the WP expired, and paid no attention to the police report that stated my WP (and passport) had been stolen.

 

I have a letter from my employer, dated, signed and company-stamped, stating that I have been in continual employment for 12 years, and that I have neither been dismissed or have resigned from my position. This also the Labor Department has ignored.

 

I have now also gone to the consulate in Kota Baru and (after a detailed interview with the Consul) they have given me a single entry Non-Im B without any more documentation than letters from my employer and the police reports. (The Consul actually phoned my employer and the company accountants to confirm this, and stated in front of witnesses that he is baffled by the attitude of the Labor Department.) Thus, with the issue of a continuation visa, it is documented that I have had no break in my Non-Im B visas for 12 years also.

The Labor Department has continued to ignore all of this and is now demanding that my employer "employ" me as if I were a new employee,  with all the proof of education, references, medical certificate and offer of employment from my employer that goes with first-time employment, even though my employer has twice now sent them statements that I am not a new employee. My employer is not at all happy, as if he does what they request, he is now also responsible for the 18,000 baht application fee for a new work permit.

 

Can anyone who is knowledgeable about this kind of thing help us to straighten this out? Surely there must be a procedure or protocol for a lost, stolen or damaged work permit - other than having to begin again from scratch?

(It is also a point of contention that my employer refuses to acknowledge that he has dismissed me, as this then makes him liable for the considerable compensation that's payable to me - even though I am still employed!)

 

HELP!

 

 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2017 by robsamui

[tonray]

38 minutes ago, robsamui said:

responsible for the 18,000 baht application fee for a new work permit.

Really 18,000 baht how can that be ? Is this some kind of super secret agent WP ? How long is the contract ?

[robsamui]

53 minutes ago, tonray said:

Really 18,000 baht how can that be ? Is this some kind of super secret agent WP ? How long is the contract ?

It appears to be what the Labor Department now charges the employer (and presumably also YOU if you have your own business) to take on a new employee and supply a WP for him. I'm told this fee went up a few months ago from what it was previously. (I don't know the actual cost of going in person to the Labor Dept, but this is what our accountant charges for her service, and she is very reasonable).

Contract? Not sure of the relevance of this - any new WP for an employee costs 18K baht. If the employee leaves after a month, the next employee who takes his place needs a new WP - at the cost of another 18K baht.

This is immaterial - my question is about what to do about this attitude of the Labor Department, and if it is legitimate - no protocol or leeway if a WP is stolen or lost - a new work needed at new-work permit costs.

 

Edited December 12, 2017 by robsamui

[PoorSucker]

A work permit costs 3800 baht plus 200 baht application fee, that's was the fee 12 years ago and  still is. 

18.000 is the fee your accountant is charging you, time to change. 

[robsamui]

1 hour ago, PoorSucker said:

A work permit costs 3800 baht plus 200 baht application fee, that's was the fee 12 years ago and  still is. 

18.000 is the fee your accountant is charging you, time to change. 

Erm . . . I'm not talking about the annual fee that everyone with a work permit has to pay to renew their WP for another year. (The company accountant charges 5,000B to do this for me. And I don't need to have a medical and show my qualifications or get a letter of invitation from my employer, to renew my WP every year.)

 

This is the cost for an employer to set up a totally new work permit for an employee, right from scratch. I know it originally cost 12K baht when I was first employed 12 years ago - I saw the paperwork. I think you've missed the point.

 

Read what I've written, more carefully. I think we are talking about two quite different things.

 

On the other hand, if you are right, I apologise, and I'll get my own company and set myself up with a 3,800 baht work permit right away! (And I'll be meeting up with you in the very near future, over a beer, to find out the exact details of how to do this.)(I'll even go all the way to Cheong Mon!)

 

Edited December 12, 2017 by robsamui

[overherebc]

Never met anyone who paid that 18,000 baht, worked here since the 90's.

Every time I've gone to the various labour offices with the company admin rep signed the relevant forms etc and left with the WP in my pocket and the company paid the fee.

Never seen a lawyer etc involved.

[PoorSucker]

I think your accountant is taking you for a ride. 

Discuss this with a real lawyer, I can recommend Lek Lawyer between Tesco and Makro in Chaweng. 

When I changed from an accountant to him I cut acounting costs per month with 50%

[mstevens]

It sounds like someone is clipping the ticket and charging over and above the Labour Department's standard fees.  If you, or you and someone from your country, made the application in person at the Labour Department it's 3,800 baht, right?

[overherebc]

13 minutes ago, mstevens said:

It sounds like someone is clipping the ticket and charging over and above the Labour Department's standard fees.  If you, or you and someone from your country, made the application in person at the Labour Department it's 3,800 baht, right?

One year WP 3800 baht. There may be a couple of other forms that attract 100 each so probably call it 4,000 baht.

Never heard of never been asked for never paid a new employee 18,000 baht fee because it doesn't exist.

Official cost to replace a lost/damaged WP is 1000 baht.

[robsamui]

9 hours ago, PoorSucker said:

I think your accountant is taking you for a ride. 

Discuss this with a real lawyer, I can recommend Lek Lawyer between Tesco and Makro in Chaweng. 

When I changed from an accountant to him I cut acounting costs per month with 50%

Thanks, I will  :-)

What's the name of the company?
 

 

Edited December 13, 2017 by robsamui

[stevenl]

8 hours ago, robsamui said:

Erm . . . I'm not talking about the annual fee that everyone with a work permit has to pay to renew their WP for another year. (The company accountant charges 5,000B to do this for me. And I don't need to have a medical and show my qualifications or get a letter of invitation from my employer, to renew my WP every year.)

 

This is the cost for an employer to set up a totally new work permit for an employee, right from scratch. I know it originally cost 12K baht when I was first employed 12 years ago - I saw the paperwork. I think you've missed the point.

 

Read what I've written, more carefully. I think we are talking about two quite different things.

 

On the other hand, if you are right, I apologise, and I'll get my own company and set myself up with a 3,800 baht work permit right away! (And I'll be meeting up with you in the very near future, over a beer, to find out the exact details of how to do this.)(I'll even go all the way to Cheong Mon!)

 

I think you have missed the point. The labor department fee is not 18,000 Baht.

[robsamui]

Thanks for the info, here - food for thought.

So if the fee for setting up a new work permit for an employee is 3,800B, what is the annual cost for the employee to renew this?

 

[PoorSucker]

6 minutes ago, robsamui said:

Thanks, I will  :-)

What's the name of the company?
 

 

Lek Lawyer. 

[robsamui]

7 hours ago, PoorSucker said:

Lek Lawyer. 

[overherebc]

37 minutes ago, robsamui said:

Thanks for the info, here - food for thought.

So if the fee for setting up a new work permit for an employee is 3,800B, what is the annual cost for the employee to renew this?

 

Not sure on that one but for sure won't be more than the initial WP.

[pearciderman]

Confused - you say you have an extension, and yet you were doing a border run ?

 

"indicating that I had a Non-Im B visa with an extension date that was later then the WP expired, "

Edited December 13, 2017 by pearciderman

[overherebc]

9 minutes ago, pearciderman said:

Confused - you say you have an extension, and yet you were doing a border run ?

 

"indicating that I had a Non-Im B visa with an extension date that was later then the WP expired, "

90 day on the border run stamp I reckon.

[robsamui]

7 hours ago, pearciderman said:

Confused - you say you have an extension, and yet you were doing a border run ?

 

"indicating that I had a Non-Im B visa with an extension date that was later then the WP expired, "

The only mention of a border run is in the first sentence when I pointed out why I had everything all together in my wallet - "I had my wallet stolen a month ago with everything in it (just came back from a border run) - passport, WP, driving licence and bank cards."

After I'd replaced my passport, the Immigration dept copied my extension of stay into my passport . . . "indicating that I had a Non-Im B visa with an extension date that was later then the WP expired."

The point being at there was no break in my visa chain.

Edited December 13, 2017 by robsamui

[pearciderman]

11 minutes ago, robsamui said:

The only mention of a border run is in the first sentence when I pointed out why I had everything all together in my wallet - "I had my wallet stolen a month ago with everything in it (just came back from a border run) - passport, WP, driving licence and bank cards."

After I'd replaced my passport, the Immigration dept copied my extension of stay into my passport . . . "indicating that I had a Non-Im B visa with an extension date that was later then the WP expired."

The point being at there was no break in my visa chain.

 

I am still confused, you say you have an extension, so why on earth would you be doing a border run?

[pearciderman]

13 minutes ago, overherebc said:

90 day on the border run stamp I reckon.

 

But he says his extension was transferred to the new passport , this would be correct, as visas are not transferred. To get a visa reinstated in a new passport would entail a lengthy trip to the MFA not Immigration.

[robsamui]

7 hours ago, pearciderman said:

 

I am still confused, you say you have an extension, so why on earth would you be doing a border run?

Did border run and lost Passport. Went to immigration with new one. They gave me a stamp which detailed my Non-Im B extension of stay.

[pearciderman]

7 minutes ago, robsamui said:

Did border run and lost Passport. Went to immigration with new one. They gave me a stamp which detailed my Non-Im B extension of stay.

 

Let me try and make this simple.

 

Visa = border run

 

Extension of stay = 90 day reports in country.

 

So if you really had an extension = why oh why were you doing a border run?

 

Maybe you had a visa and not an extension ?

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, robsamui said:

Did border run and lost Passport. Went to immigration with new one. They gave me a stamp which detailed my Non-Im B extension of stay.

You wrote before that that have a multiple entry non-b visa. I think you are calling your new 90 day permit stay an extension which is not correct.

[pearciderman]

2 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

You wrote before that that have a multiple entry non-b visa. I think you are calling your new 90 day permit stay an extension which is not correct.

 

OK, that answers my question :-)

[robsamui]

7 hours ago, pearciderman said:

 

Let me try and make this simple.

 

Visa = border run

vvvv

Extension of stay = 90 day reports in country.

 

So if you really had an extension = why oh why were you doing a border run?

 

Maybe you had a visa and not an extension ?

Let me make it even simpler:
Border run = cross the border and return.
Visa run = trip outside the country for new visa.

Extension of stay = the date on the passport & TM6 that results in a  visa being extended for any period of time.

Edited December 13, 2017 by robsamui

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, robsamui said:

Extension of stay = the date on the passport & TM6 that results in a  visa being extended for any period of time.

That is new 90 day permit to stay from your visa not an extension. An extension of stay can only be applied for at immigration.

[robsamui]

This is the stamp that the Immigration department put on my  new passport. They told me that it duplicated the current extension of stay that my lost passport had on the Non-Im B visa. And, without being an expert, it certainly looks like it - even my accountant agrees this is what it is.
Or have we got it all wrong?

Edited December 13, 2017 by robsamui

[stevenl]

3 minutes ago, robsamui said:

This is the stamp that the Immigration department put on my  new passport. They told me that it duplicated the current extension of stay that my lost passport had on the Non-Im B visa.

That's a 90 days stay, not an extension of stay.

[robsamui]

7 hours ago, stevenl said:

That's a 90 days stay, not an extension of stay.

Then why does it correspond exactly to the extension of stay (it even says "Non -IM') that was on both my lost passport and my TM6 card?
If it was just a 90-day stay, then surely it would have been dated from the day that I turned up at immigration on the 17th November with my new passport?
They have copied (read the border of the lower stamp) the extension of stay into my new passport, actually allowing me 36 days before expiry on the 23rd December, not 90 days.
 I would be SO grateful if people who had no knowledge of this didn't make comments, especially 'professional commenters' who on average have made 5 posts a day for the last 10 years.

Edited December 13, 2017 by robsamui

[ubonjoe]

6 minutes ago, robsamui said:

Then why does it correspond exactly to the extension of stay (it even says "Non -IM') that was on both my lost passport and my TM6 card?
If it was just a 90-day stay, then surely it would have been dated from the day that I turned up at immigration with my new passport?
They appear to have copied (read the border of the lower stamp) the extension of stay into my new passport, actually allowing me 36 days before expiry, not 90 days.

The 90 day stamp is just a replacement of the 90 day permit to stay stamp (admitted until) you got on September 25th when you entered the country using your visa.