Non-immigrant O visa based on marriage immigration officer problems

[Acharn]

On 12/13/2017 at 11:18 AM, Tanoshi said:

Is this your first application for an extension of stay based on marriage (not a Visa).

 

It's quite common on the very first application for some Immigration offices to request 'witnesses' who can vouch your relationship is genuine and you are co-habiting.

The first year I extended my retirement visa after my wife died, the lady police officer asked me if anyone could bear witness to verify my address (which was the same I had used the previous six years. Luckily, my niece was outside waiting for me and did it. I must lead a charmed existence. I've never been pressured for a bribe, asked for something unreasonable (like bringing the village headman to vouch for me), or otherwise inconvenienced. In fact, back in the days when the Immigration Office on Soi Suan Phlu kept the same officers year after year, the immigration officer who handled my case every year, and his superior officer, were very helpful to me when my first wife died and I had to change from "support of a Thai national" to "retirement" as the reason for extending my stay. OT -- What's the big deal about calling it a "retirement visa" instead of "extension of stay?" We aren't committing ourselves to legal obligations with our words here. There's no need to be so picky.

[Tanoshi]

2 hours ago, Acharn said:

What's the big deal about calling it a "retirement visa" instead of "extension of stay?" We aren't committing ourselves to legal obligations with our words here. There's no need to be so picky.

What's the big deal about calling it for what it is.

 

[glegolo]

2 hours ago, Acharn said:

OT -- What's the big deal about calling it a "retirement visa" instead of "extension of stay?" We aren't committing ourselves to legal obligations with our words here. There's no need to be so picky.

I think that we probably with any efforts can give you more than 100 different situations, where it is of utmost importance to call things for what it really is, and not using the incorrect wording... If you yourself do not know the difference and how important it is , than I dont believe you understand the proces at all....

 

glegolo

[Lite Beer]

3 hours ago, Acharn said:

 What's the big deal about calling it a "retirement visa" instead of "extension of stay?" We aren't committing ourselves to legal obligations with our words here. There's no need to be so picky.

It is a very big deal as it leads to all sorts of confusion and lessens any correct advice that will be given.

[malagateddy]

I cannot help but have a quiet laugh when I read about all the moaning/bitching on this Forum re. peoples issues with the Thai Immigration Offices.
Try the U.K. Immigration System then you may well have plenty to moan about!!!

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[Koratjohn77]

On December 14, 2017 at 7:41 PM, ubonjoe said:

The police back ground check is not required for an extension of stay based upon or any other extension of stay.

See the requirements for an extension based upon marriage here: https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_18

When you say police background check do you mean that they can possibly come visit you at your house or do you mean actual paperwork showing lack of criminal record?  

[Koratjohn77]

On December 14, 2017 at 8:59 PM, GOLDBUGGY said:

Sorry! My Poor Choice of Words. 

 

I did not mean a Police Criminal Background Check. I mean the right for the Police to come to your Residence to check that you actually live there with your wife and to question other people in your community. I did not mean that you needed to provide proof that you do not have a Criminal Record.

 

Again sorry for the confusion. 

Ok no problem.  

[Koratjohn77]

On December 14, 2017 at 8:59 PM, GOLDBUGGY said:

SSorry! My Poor Choice of Words. 

 

I did not mean a Police Criminal Background Check. I mean the right for the Police to come to your Residence to check that you actually live there with your wife and to question other people in your community. I did not mean that you needed to provide proof that you do not have a Criminal Record.

 

Again sorry for the confusion. 

When I originally got my first visa back in the states years ago I actually did have to provide an FBI criminal background check from within the United States only because at first I was considering working here but I ended up not working here or anywhere at all because when my pension was finalized I ended getting paid a lot more than I thought I would.  I didn't calculate all the disability compensation that I was going to receive on top of my normal pension when I was retiring and planning our relocation to Thailand.  Once it was all finalized I knew then ok good I'm not going to have to work.  I'm so glad that I didn't end up working here because that probably would have been a disaster and I hear it's not easy for those who do work here.  All I have on my record are a bunch of traffic citations going back like 20 or 30 years living in the United States.  Lol after we moved here I still had 2 speeding tickets pending which I had an attorney take care of after we were gone.  One of them drug out till 2015 before it finally got taken care of that's why I don't like having to provide those things.  I had a lot of traffic citations over the years but they never prevented me from maintaining a TS security clearance throughout my career so they must not be considered to be that bad.  Here in Thailand I have nothing on my record.  

[Koratjohn77]

On 12/14/2017 at 7:41 PM, ubonjoe said:

The police back ground check is not required for an extension of stay based upon or any other extension of stay.

See the requirements for an extension based upon marriage here: https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_18

I think you meant to say "based upon marriage" correct?  Actually I already know what's required for my extension based upon marriage because I've done it so many times.  I just like to keep up and make sure they don't add anything new.  

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, Koratjohn77 said:

I think you meant to say "based upon marriage" correct?  Actually I already know what's required for my extension based upon marriage because I've done it so many times.

It is not required for any extension of stay as I wrote. Immigration does not require it.

[GOLDBUGGY]

1 hour ago, Koratjohn77 said:

When I originally got my first visa back in the states years ago I actually did have to provide an FBI criminal background check from within the United States only because at first I was considering working here but I ended up not working here or anywhere at all because when my pension was finalized I ended getting paid a lot more than I thought I would.  I didn't calculate all the disability compensation that I was going to receive on top of my normal pension when I was retiring and planning our relocation to Thailand.  Once it was all finalized I knew then ok good I'm not going to have to work.  I'm so glad that I didn't end up working here because that probably would have been a disaster and I hear it's not easy for those who do work here.  All I have on my record are a bunch of traffic citations going back like 20 or 30 years living in the United States.  Lol after we moved here I still had 2 speeding tickets pending which I had an attorney take care of after we were gone.  One of them drug out till 2015 before it finally got taken care of that's why I don't like having to provide those things.  I had a lot of traffic citations over the years but they never prevented me from maintaining a TS security clearance throughout my career so they must not be considered to be that bad.  Here in Thailand I have nothing on my record.  

To have a Criminal Record you first need to commit an Idictable Offense which can be as serious as a Felony like Muder or Rape, or even a Misdemeanor which is up to one year in prison. In otherwords a more serious crime.

 

I beleive Traffic Violations fall under a term known as "Infraction" which are offenses that can usually be settle by paying a Fine and not going to prison. Infractions do not carry a Criminal Record. This is why you still have a clean Criminal Record for Traffic Citations.  

[sandyf]

On 12/14/2017 at 7:41 PM, ubonjoe said:

The police back ground check is not required for an extension of stay based upon or any other extension of stay.

See the requirements for an extension based upon marriage here: https://www.immigration.go.th/content/service_18

Not something you see mentioned a lot but I had one done when I applied for the yellow book in 2010, took 6 weeks to get the book.

[OJAS]

27 minutes ago, sandyf said:

Not something you see mentioned a lot but I had one done when I applied for the yellow book in 2010, took 6 weeks to get the book.

Was this in addition to - or in lieu of - the "Bangkok Routine" (i.e. trips to Embassy & MFA) that my amphur insisted on when I looked into the possibility of obtaining a yellow book several years ago?

[Koratjohn77]

17 hours ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

To have a Criminal Record you first need to commit an Idictable Offense which can be as serious as a Felony like Muder or Rape, or even a Misdemeanor which is up to one year in prison. In otherwords a more serious crime.

 

I beleive Traffic Violations fall under a term known as "Infraction" which are offenses that can usually be settle by paying a Fine and not going to prison. Infractions do not carry a Criminal Record. This is why you still have a clean Criminal Record for Traffic Citations.  

Actually when I pulled my NCIC report like 5 years ago using my finger prints before we came here every single little traffic infraction that I've ever received since I was 18 years old actually showed up on my NCIC report.  Even some traffic infractions can be considered misdemeanors depending on the seriousness of it and depending on the state.  Especially depending on the state, some states like NC particularly are ridiculous.  We lived in NC for half of my career and NC is the worst.  Actually yes I remember on the report most of them were labeled as "infractions".  All were traffic related.  

[Koratjohn77]

17 hours ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

To have a Criminal Record you first need to commit an Idictable Offense which can be as serious as a Felony like Muder or Rape, or even a Misdemeanor which is up to one year in prison. In otherwords a more serious crime.

 

I beleive Traffic Violations fall under a term known as "Infraction" which are offenses that can usually be settle by paying a Fine and not going to prison. Infractions do not carry a Criminal Record. This is why you still have a clean Criminal Record for Traffic Citations.  

Actually you'd be surprised the little things that will show up on your NCIC report, and it doesn't have to be a serious crime either or even a high misdemeanor offense.  Little traffic citations do show up on your NCIC report as well.  And I've never even been arrested before.  

[sandyf]

5 hours ago, OJAS said:

Was this in addition to - or in lieu of - the "Bangkok Routine" (i.e. trips to Embassy & MFA) that my amphur insisted on when I looked into the possibility of obtaining a yellow book several years ago?

I didn't have to get anything from the embassy, translated or legalised, it was all very straightforward apart from the wait. It was a new build and my wife and I went in together, she got her new book the next day and as I said mine came 6 weeks later.

[GOLDBUGGY]

3 hours ago, Koratjohn77 said:

Actually you'd be surprised the little things that will show up on your NCIC report, and it doesn't have to be a serious crime either or even a high misdemeanor offense.  Little traffic citations do show up on your NCIC report as well.  And I've never even been arrested before.  

Never heard of a Guy having a Criminal Record for a Speeding Ticket.

 

Tell me more!

[greenchair]

Often times immigration don't come to check anymore, there are just too many foreigners getting married and wanting non o visas. 

Your case is no different from most other people. 

[Koratjohn77]

20 hours ago, GOLDBUGGY said:

Never heard of a Guy having a Criminal Record for a Speeding Ticket.

 

Tell me more!

Either you've never had your finger prints taken and sent them into the NCIC for a full records check or you've never been pulled over before in your life.  And some tickets are actually considered misdemeanor offenses depending on the state.  If you've ever received a speeding ticket for going more than 20 miles over the speed limit that's actually on the misdemeanor level in most states.  Just because you didn't get arrested and only received a citation doesn't mean it's not a criminal offense.  

 

A person can actually receive a citation for simple assault such as pushing someone and not necessarily get physically arrested depending on the circumstances.  A speeding citation is similar it's a summons to appear in court.  I used to major in criminal justice so I know.  

 

I have also received speeding tickets before for going more than 20 miles over the speed limit which is a misdemeanor offense in most states.  In fact it's possible to actually get arrested for driving more than 20 miles over the speed limit if the cop is in a bad mood.  

 

I never got taken away in cuffs before but a citation for driving 80MPH in a 55MPH zone like I've received before is considered a misdemeanor offense in most states.  

 

Maybe you should get your finger prints taken and request an NCIC report on yourself you will probably be surprised what you'll see, unless you claim to have lived like a saint all of your life.  A lot of these states get pretty stupid with traffic stuff they'll even threaten to take your license for a ticket more than 20MPH over the speed limit.  

[JackThompson]

19 minutes ago, Koratjohn77 said:

I have also received speeding tickets before for going more than 20 miles over the speed limit which is a misdemeanor offense in most states.  In fact it's possible to actually get arrested for driving more than 20 miles over the speed limit if the cop is in a bad mood.  

Yes, but it's worse than that.  The USA Supreme Court ruled that you can be arrested and taken to jail for as little as a "not wearing a seat belt" ticket (a $50 victimless-crime ticket).  In the deciding case, the officer was verbally-abusive in the process, and her children in the car, were terrified.  The victim sued, the courts ruled against her - sad but true. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atwater_v._City_of_Lago_Vista

 

I would assume that this pointless-arrest would be included in her records, unless there is some sort of filter to exclude all but "serious crimes."

[Koratjohn77]

2 hours ago, JackThompson said:

Yes, but it's worse than that.  The USA Supreme Court ruled that you can be arrested and taken to jail for as little as a "not wearing a seat belt" ticket (a $50 victimless-crime ticket).  In the deciding case, the officer was verbally-abusive in the process, and her children in the car, were terrified.  The victim sued, the courts ruled against her - sad but true. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atwater_v._City_of_Lago_Vista

 

I would assume that this pointless-arrest would be included in her records, unless there is some sort of filter to exclude all but "serious crimes."

I don't know anything about the case that you're siting but yeah it's gotten ridiculous in the United States.  I think if most people got their finger prints taken and requested an NCIC report on themselves they'd be surprised what they'd see.  All those little speeding tickets and traffic citations that most people don't think anyone cares about do show up on a criminal record even though it's not a big deal there's still a record of everything.  Even with all my traffic issues I was still able to maintain a top secret special compartmented information security clearance for over 20 plus years so it must not have been that big of a deal.  Although when I originally got my security clearance and every 5 years when they did my periodic review investigation I was asked about that and every other single personal thing in my life.  As long as it wasn't anything major it wasn't a big issue they really just wanted to make sure that I was honest about it.  They even checked my credit report every little thing in your life is under the microscope when you have a TS/SCI security clearance and are in a position of National Security.  I was even required to take a polygraph test every 5 years.  Although I think the investigators kind of understood that a lot of the laws we have in the states are out of control.  That last guy that I was speaking with obviously didn't understand that even some of these little traffic infractions are actually considered to be misdemeanor criminal offenses.  

 

And yes it can actually be much worse than what I described depending on the state or what kind of mood the almighty boys in blue are in or what kind of mood the DA's in or the almighty judge.  I know how out of hand some cops can get in the U.S.  I've seen some unbelievable things occur in my time I once saw an extremely corrupt entire Sheriff's Department once in a small town nearby a military base.  Around the military bases in the United States the cops always seem to be the worst but in cities like New York they're pretty great for the most part.  I haven't seen that here in Thailand as far as the power trip.  I've spoken to a few Thai cops and they seem to be pretty good from what I've seen.  

[JackThompson]

3 hours ago, Koratjohn77 said:

... Even with all my traffic issues I was still able to maintain a top secret special compartmented information security clearance for over 20 plus years so it must not have been that big of a deal. 

I would guess they do not want to disqualify working-talent, unless your behavior indicated a threat to national-security. 

 

3 hours ago, Koratjohn77 said:

... I haven't seen that here in Thailand as far as the power trip.  I've spoken to a few Thai cops and they seem to be pretty good from what I've seen.  

I've seen Thai cops diffuse potentially violent altercations without so much as laying a hand on the agitators, and do busts (looked like sting-ops) on moving cars and motos without firing a shot or even using a Taser.  I'm impressed. 

 

The USA-attitude is, of "Try to find violations of anyone, anywhere," to fill coffers and for-profit jails/prisons.  But in Thailand, on long bus-rides, I've not seen a single car pulled-over on the side of the road by police in Thailand for dozens of hours.  In the USA, you cannot go 5 minutes without seeing this.  Today's USA looks exactly like what I was told, as a kid during the cold war, life in the Soviet Bloc was like.  This was the primary reason I left.

 

This is not to blame the "cop on the beat" for most of the policing-problems in the USA - we need peace-keepers.  The problem is that we now have a system designed to reward intrusive behavior versus "keeping the peace" - the purpose of which was allowing people the Freedom to enjoy their lives.

[Acharn]

On 12/15/2017 at 8:19 PM, glegolo said:

I think that we probably with any efforts can give you more than 100 different situations, where it is of utmost importance to call things for what it really is, and not using the incorrect wording... If you yourself do not know the difference and how important it is , than I dont believe you understand the proces at all....

 

glegolo

You are quite correct. I do not understand the process at all. When I am speaking to an uneducated Thai trying to explain something to me in English, I am aware of the possibility of them not knowing the exact English terminology which might be used by a brain surgeon of nuclear physicist, but we usually manage to communicate satisfactorily. I have heard native English speakers bitching about how awful Thais are at speaking English. When my nieces and nephews (Thai) ask me about political developments in America or the causes of World War II, I certainly don't use correct Thai all the time, yet they continue listening, with expressions of interest suggesting they understand what I am trying to say. I do not believe it matters to a Thai immigration officer if you use the exact terminology from the statute, whether you are speaking to her in Thai or English. Certainly using the incorrect terminology here at Thai Visa is not going to result in me losing hundreds of thousands of baht or spending years in prison. I do agree with the Sage Confucius, who is said to have taught, "If the correct words are not used then what is said is not what is meant, and the people will stand about in helpless confusion," but "correct" here means something like "words whose meaning is known." I have extended my stay in Thailand every year for 35 years, and have never had a problem with the Immigration officers understanding my desire or my responses to their question. 

[glegolo]

1 hour ago, Acharn said:

You are quite correct. I do not understand the process at all. When I am speaking to an uneducated Thai trying to explain something to me in English, I am aware of the possibility of them not knowing the exact English terminology which might be used by a brain surgeon of nuclear physicist, but we usually manage to communicate satisfactorily. I have heard native English speakers bitching about how awful Thais are at speaking English. When my nieces and nephews (Thai) ask me about political developments in America or the causes of World War II, I certainly don't use correct Thai all the time, yet they continue listening, with expressions of interest suggesting they understand what I am trying to say. I do not believe it matters to a Thai immigration officer if you use the exact terminology from the statute, whether you are speaking to her in Thai or English. Certainly using the incorrect terminology here at Thai Visa is not going to result in me losing hundreds of thousands of baht or spending years in prison. I do agree with the Sage Confucius, who is said to have taught, "If the correct words are not used then what is said is not what is meant, and the people will stand about in helpless confusion," but "correct" here means something like "words whose meaning is known." I have extended my stay in Thailand every year for 35 years, and have never had a problem with the Immigration officers understanding my desire or my responses to their question. 

I really do not want to respond to you what concerns the wording, I do not think it will sink in anyhow...

 

But I must gratulate you for a fantastic life and good luck, in having thai-children around you asking questions about politic in America? And asking about WW II? Hahahaha,,,, I have never heard about such things, unless it comes from people extremely new to Thailand.

 

In my world here at least the thai are exceptionally not interested in anything outside their own counry and could care less about USA and their politic and also of course my countrys politic...... But that is my life, and we all live in different places of course.. But hello there!!!!!?

[Koratjohn77]

11 hours ago, JackThompson said:

I would guess they do not want to disqualify working-talent, unless your behavior indicated a threat to national-security. 

 

I've seen Thai cops diffuse potentially violent altercations without so much as laying a hand on the agitators, and do busts (looked like sting-ops) on moving cars and motos without firing a shot or even using a Taser.  I'm impressed. 

 

The USA-attitude is, of "Try to find violations of anyone, anywhere," to fill coffers and for-profit jails/prisons.  But in Thailand, on long bus-rides, I've not seen a single car pulled-over on the side of the road by police in Thailand for dozens of hours.  In the USA, you cannot go 5 minutes without seeing this.  Today's USA looks exactly like what I was told, as a kid during the cold war, life in the Soviet Bloc was like.  This was the primary reason I left.

 

This is not to blame the "cop on the beat" for most of the policing-problems in the USA - we need peace-keepers.  The problem is that we now have a system designed to reward intrusive behavior versus "keeping the peace" - the purpose of which was allowing people the Freedom to enjoy their lives.

Pretty much exactly.  And the thing about my security clearance is just that when they investigate people to get a new clearance or whenever I had to renew it every 5 years they put your whole life under the microscope including family and having a foreign spouse actually made it harder but basically yes as long as there is no threat to national security normally there's no problem.  They also check financial records as well because someone who's let's say deep in debt is potentially vulnerable to being bought off. I'm retired now so I don't have to worry about it anymore.  

 

Your comparison of the Thai police to the cops in the states is dead on and here in Thailand the police actually have a lot more power than the police in the states but they don't abuse it.  Some police departments in the states not all of them but a lot of them not only abuse their authority but they actually go way outside of the law, sometimes to the point where they're the criminals but their superiors look the other way and most of the time they get away with it sometimes even when it's on video.  

 

I pretty much agree with everything you said and yes the cops in the states do that a lot as far as actually trying to find things that they can use against people actually searching for violations.  They don't do that here from what I've seen anyway but God help you if you're caught with something like drugs or something.  Although I don't hang out in high risk areas so I might not be seeing everything that occurs here.  

[Koratjohn77]

11 hours ago, JackThompson said:

I would guess they do not want to disqualify working-talent, unless your behavior indicated a threat to national-security. 

 

I've seen Thai cops diffuse potentially violent altercations without so much as laying a hand on the agitators, and do busts (looked like sting-ops) on moving cars and motos without firing a shot or even using a Taser.  I'm impressed. 

 

The USA-attitude is, of "Try to find violations of anyone, anywhere," to fill coffers and for-profit jails/prisons.  But in Thailand, on long bus-rides, I've not seen a single car pulled-over on the side of the road by police in Thailand for dozens of hours.  In the USA, you cannot go 5 minutes without seeing this.  Today's USA looks exactly like what I was told, as a kid during the cold war, life in the Soviet Bloc was like.  This was the primary reason I left.

 

This is not to blame the "cop on the beat" for most of the policing-problems in the USA - we need peace-keepers.  The problem is that we now have a system designed to reward intrusive behavior versus "keeping the peace" - the purpose of which was allowing people the Freedom to enjoy their lives.

Here you do see check points a lot but at least they aren't hiding behind bushes on the side of the road with radar guns trying to be sneaky about it and catch people.  In the states they love writing those tickets and the courts love collecting that free money.  I love my country and I always will but I've honestly never seen that here in Thailand.  I don't mean to bash the United States I love my country but unfortunately that's the world we live in.  I served my country for 20 plus years in the military.