Pick-up sitting ban resurrected for New Year travel

[superal]

25 minutes ago, Airbagwill said:

QED - clueless - you have no idea about road safety.

The only thing that you have got right so far is your title / pseudonym  5555

[Happyman58]

10 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

I'll make another note on a point of culture that contributes to the mortality on Thai roadways but seems to receive little attention: indecision, ignorance, and fear in dealing with the results of an accident. 

 

Just a few months ago I was the "first responder" on the scene of a single-motorcycle accident.  I was hardly the first, however, to arrive upon the scene, for by the time I got there, a small crowd of at least 15 people surrounded the downed motorcycle and driver, and someone had already found a branch to lay in the road.  The accident had bloodied the face of the driver, who was unconscious.  His breath reeked of alcohol which is likely what impaired his judgment as he prepared to negotiate a sharp corner ahead on the wet road.  For whatever reason, he had slipped ahead of the corner, and his helmet was now nearly choking him, for he had strapped it at the chin well.  None of the locals dared touch him, though one had at least dialed for emergency services.  I went immediately to him to take a pulse and assess his condition.  When I did so, another person joined me, and between the two of us, we struggled with the chin strap until we had released it, alleviating the danger of his choking on it.

 

Alcohol is one thing.  Driving safely another.  But then there is what happens to the injured that might be saved but are neglected out of unwarranted inhibitions that seem endemic to the culture. The man I stopped to help fortunately survived.  Many don't.  Again, my best suggestion is to educate Thai people.  First aid classes and CPR classes could be required of all public servants and teachers, and offered regularly to groups of others.  This would help to dispel their natural fears by helping them feel confident that something they might do themselves would be effective and necessary to save lives.  As before, this is back to culture--which cannot be legislated, but can be educated.

Question? Did the cops do anything when they arrived? Thais drink drive because they know they get away with it It is just a big joke In Australia you still get drink drivers but most Aussie drivers dont drink drive Why because they know if they get caught loss of license big fine and if repeat offender jail time You might say most drivers in Australia have been educated on this matter I know because i am one of those educated drivers when before i was willing to take the chance Now No way sir Maybe that is what is needed here if it saves lives

[JAG]

2 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

You actually don't have an argument, do you?

If you disagree with something I've said point it out.

the fact is I've posted copiously on road safety and I don't keep track of which thread they are on...I've laid out my case on several occasions and quite frankly I have little time people who's hallmark of not having an argument themselves is to ask others to reiterate or cite what they have already put forward in a reasoned argument.

 

It is pretty apparent that people think that because they can drive a car, they are "experts" (meaningless word) on road safety - they are patently not so but are in reality grossly under-informed about road safety and in particular road safety in Thailand. As such they really have no place posting on the subject.

They claim to have "opinions" but they aren't actually opinions, they are just unreasoned blurtings based on a jumble of their own prejudices.

If you want to join the conversation constructively may I suggest you spend a few weeks or months researching (not searching) the matter or if you are really desperate, trawl through my posts over the last year or so.

3

What an astonishing outburst, and how revealing! As a couple of posters have said, your "posting name" is proving to be most appropriate.

 

My argument is not about road safety in Thailand per se, rather I take issue with your habit of dismissing everyone else's comments and suggestions in such a brusque and offensive manner. Your response, if anything, rather confirms my argument, as do the posts which follow the one quoted above. 

 

You have posted on the matter elsewhere, but haven't kept track of where? Fine, but don't expect the rest of us to trawl the forum for those posts. If I may paraphrase you: "Frankly, I have little time for people whose hallmark is to criticise and dismiss others, whilst failing to suggest an alternative view themselves". To say that you have already done so elsewhere is a particularly feeble excuse.

 

Now like you I don't know how to define an "expert" in such matters; although I did once hear an "expert" defined as "ex is a has been. and a spurt is what happens when you put a drip under pressure!"

You however clearly consider yourself an expert, and seem to believe that everyone else's views are therefore irrelevant. So you dismiss them, without suggesting corrections or an alternative. That is my argument.

 

As for the subject of the topic, yes I do have "opinions". In summary, I believe that if the existing laws were enforced coherently and consistently, then the road death toll would be dramatically reduced. I don't think that these are  "just unreasoned blurtings based on a jumble of their own prejudices." But then I am not an expert!

 

 

Edited December 17, 2017 by JAG

[superal]

1 hour ago, JAG said:

What an astonishing outburst, and how revealing! As a couple of posters have said, your "posting name" is proving to be most appropriate.

 

My argument is not about road safety in Thailand per se, rather I take issue with your habit of dismissing everyone else's comments and suggestions in such a brusque and offensive manner. Your response, if anything, rather confirms my argument, as do the posts which follow the one quoted above. 

 

You have posted on the matter elsewhere, but haven't kept track of where? Fine, but don't expect the rest of us to trawl the forum for those posts. If I may paraphrase you: "Frankly, I have little time for people whose hallmark is to criticise and dismiss others, whilst failing to suggest an alternative view themselves". To say that you have already done so elsewhere is a particularly feeble excuse.

 

Now like you I don't know how to define an "expert" in such matters; although I did once hear an "expert" defined as "ex is a has been. and a spurt is what happens when you put a drip under pressure!"

You however clearly consider yourself an expert, and seem to believe that everyone else's views are therefore irrelevant. So you dismiss them, without suggesting corrections or an alternative. That is my argument.

 

As for the subject of the topic, yes I do have "opinions". In summary, I believe that if the existing laws were enforced coherently and consistently, then the road death toll would be dramatically reduced. I don't think that these are  "just unreasoned blurtings based on a jumble of their own prejudices." But then I am not an expert!

 

 

Quote on last paragraph , Have to agree and I cannot believe that the hierarchy are not aware of how successful western standards of driving are in comparison of their own but they refuse to adopt them . As has been said in other posts it is very much a culture thing here and they have no wish to be like the western world and apart from the road carnage I think that sometimes they have a point .  

[natway09]

It should be enforced on ALL highways ALL the time where the speed limit is over 80 kph.

End of story

[Russell17au]

17 minutes ago, natway09 said:

It should be enforced on ALL highways ALL the time where the speed limit is over 80 kph.

End of story

It should be enforced on ALL ROADS ALL THE TIME. No excuses, No exceptions. Then end of story

[Baerboxer]

On 12/16/2017 at 9:48 AM, BigBadGeordie said:

This is indicative of selective law enforcement in Thailand.

 

If it is on the statute, enforce it 24/7/365. But oh no, lets enforce it (or not) at selective times of the year, in some areas, excluding rural areas.

 

DPM Prawit and other government ministers want to know what has happened about the "ban" since last Songkran. Easy, absolutely nothing. Someone must be guilty of deriliction of duty, or is that regulation not being enforced, unless it involves "the other side?

 

 

Indeed Geordie. And don't forget everything, every decision, is at the discretion of the officer handling the situation!

[mikiea]

On 12/16/2017 at 11:46 AM, nong38 said:

The police have enough on their plate to have to enforce another law and top of that the offenders chums would have to walk home!

maybe some  police see it as a new source of street tax by copper revenue ................yikes  

[djayz]

What about the ban on drink driving? Will that also be enforced? 

[The Deerhunter]

14 hours ago, Airbagwill said:

I see immigrant labour

I saw that too but it wouldn't make it legal.  Grass or other sometimes green stuff might.555.

[Russell17au]

Seven people travelling in a pickup truck were seriously injured when their vehicle crashed into a truck in Bangkok’s Nong Khaem district at around 3am on Sunday.

It could have been another 7 dead as the tank truck they hit was a LPG Gas tanker and they are lucky they did not rupture the tank.

Believed to have been partying and were drunk

[AsianAtHeart]

5 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

Seven people travelling in a pickup truck were seriously injured when their vehicle crashed into a truck in Bangkok’s Nong Khaem district at around 3am on Sunday.

It could have been another 7 dead as the tank truck they hit was a LPG Gas tanker and they are lucky they did not rupture the tank.

Believed to have been partying and were drunk

So, which "cause" is more blameworthy in the above scenario??

1) The obstructionist, lumbering gas truck

2) The zippy pickup truck

3) The  inept driver of the pickup truck

4) The lack of seat belts

5) The alcohol

 

It reminds me of the question as to whether guns, drugs, or people "kill." 

 

Let's see....

 

If #1 is the answer, let's ban gas trucks, shall we?

If #2 is the answer, we can ban pickup trucks instead.

If #3 is the answer, can we ban inept drivers?

If #4 is the answer, why not merely require seat belts for every passenger--never mind where in the vehicle they seat themselves?

If #5 is the real culprit, let's ban alcohol!

 

I don't remember where I saw the figure, but not so long back I saw a statistic that indicated over 80% of Thailand's fatal accidents were alcohol-related.

[AsianAtHeart]

9 hours ago, Happyman58 said:

Question? Did the cops do anything when they arrived? Thais drink drive because they know they get away with it It is just a big joke In Australia you still get drink drivers but most Aussie drivers dont drink drive Why because they know if they get caught loss of license big fine and if repeat offender jail time You might say most drivers in Australia have been educated on this matter I know because i am one of those educated drivers when before i was willing to take the chance Now No way sir Maybe that is what is needed here if it saves lives

No police ever came, just the ambulance.

[Russell17au]

20 minutes ago, AsianAtHeart said:

So, which "cause" is more blameworthy in the above scenario??

1) The obstructionist, lumbering gas truck

2) The zippy pickup truck

3) The  inept driver of the pickup truck

4) The lack of seat belts

5) The alcohol

 

It reminds me of the question as to whether guns, drugs, or people "kill." 

 

Let's see....

 

If #1 is the answer, let's ban gas trucks, shall we?

If #2 is the answer, we can ban pickup trucks instead.

If #3 is the answer, can we ban inept drivers?

If #4 is the answer, why not merely require seat belts for every passenger--never mind where in the vehicle they seat themselves?

If #5 is the real culprit, let's ban alcohol!

 

I don't remember where I saw the figure, but not so long back I saw a statistic that indicated over 80% of Thailand's fatal accidents were alcohol-related.

Well, I better be careful how I answer this because I don't want to sound like I am cynical of the response to my previous post, but, I think that the response that was given has some absolutely stupid remarks because the main part of my previous post was copied from The National news item and it is about another incident which involved the carrying of people in the back of pick ups which this thread is about

[AsianAtHeart]

27 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

Well, I better be careful how I answer this because I don't want to sound like I am cynical of the response to my previous post, but, I think that the response that was given has some absolutely stupid remarks because the main part of my previous post was copied from The National news item and it is about another incident which involved the carrying of people in the back of pick ups which this thread is about

The connection I'm seeing so far in all of these news items comes down to one word, however: alcohol.  Where is the news item that indicates pickup fatalities without it?  I'm sure there's the odd example somewhere--but how many alcohol-fueled statistics are there for every such example?

Edited December 17, 2017 by AsianAtHeart

[Kwasaki]

10 hours ago, Happyman58 said:

Question? Did the cops do anything when they arrived? Thais drink drive because they know they get away with it It is just a big joke In Australia you still get drink drivers but most Aussie drivers dont drink drive Why because they know if they get caught loss of license big fine and if repeat offender jail time You might say most drivers in Australia have been educated on this matter I know because i am one of those educated drivers when before i was willing to take the chance Now No way sir Maybe that is what is needed here if it saves lives

Well there lies the problem IMHO the more Farangies/ Falangies / Western people tried to impose their ways the longer it will take for Thailand to follow, let them be to do their own thing whether you understand it or not.

Edited December 17, 2017 by Kwasaki

[Happyman58]

6 hours ago, AsianAtHeart said:

No police ever came, just the ambulance.

Not right is it? That is the big problem here the police Prob the accident had no money in it so why bother and they were out collecting there tea money In Aus if that happened the bike rider would of been taken to hospital and the police would of followed and asked to doc to take a blood sample because he could not blow in the bag at the accident. When he recovered he would of been charged with drink driving and any other offence he committed to cause that accident eg speeding That is what police work is all about not standing on the corner collecting tea money Also teaches drivers to obey the rules and not just laugh at them as they do here If you can get that system in here the death toll would drop by half That is 15,000 Thais will see next Xmas Would that be a great present?

[Happyman58]

5 hours ago, Kwasaki said:

Well there lies the problem IMHO the more Farangies/ Falangies / Western people tried to impose their ways the longer it will take for Thailand to follow, let them be to do their own thing whether you understand it or not.

So you say  just let them die and do nothing. They already have a police force that does that so i guess 1 more person saying that wont matter much i care for lives because we are all human beings and if anything could be brought into to the system to save lives i would support it Not trying to impose western ways trying to save lives here That is all that matters LIFE

[EVENKEEL]

Wasn't so long ago in the US it was legal to ride in back of pickups, no seat belt or child seats required. Please Thailand, don't succumb to this. In Isaan riding in the back is a way of life. You can't make such a drastic law overnight.

It simply can't be enforced.

 

I hear in Bangkok they have a new bus station with buses going to sakon nakhon direct. Can help a bit but certainly can't handle all.

 

[Russell17au]

18 minutes ago, EVENKEEL said:

Wasn't so long ago in the US it was legal to ride in back of pickups, no seat belt or child seats required. Please Thailand, don't succumb to this. In Isaan riding in the back is a way of life. You can't make such a drastic law overnight.

It simply can't be enforced.

 

I hear in Bangkok they have a new bus station with buses going to sakon nakhon direct. Can help a bit but certainly can't handle all.

 

you are dead wrong. "In Isaan riding in the back is a way of life." NO it is a way of death. You will also be saying that in Isaan it is a way of life to have more than 2 on a motorbike not wearing helmets. The laws have not been made overnight, it is a case that the police are too lazy the enforce them and that is why this year there are 27,000 people have died at the scene of a road accident plus it would be on average about the same number die away from the scene of the accident. So you are looking at about 55,000 have died of road accident related injuries this year. Any law that can save just one life is a good law because a human life is not a throw away commodity, and that is how Thailand is treating human life. Come on Thailand get the police to do their jobs properly and enforce the laws and protect human life, stop throwing life away with disrespect. Thailand is number one in the world now for road fatalities and that is a big loss of face and they need to save face now so bring in the strict laws and increase the penalties for the law breaking drivers but also bring in strict laws and harsh penalties for the police who do not do their job properly and are corrupt.

[lvr181]

On 12/17/2017 at 12:05 AM, nchuckle said:

Stumbling directionless from one knee jerk ill  thought through idea to another and now clueless, back to a previous failed one. You really have to wonder about the IQ of those involved.

Never wondered about it at all - has always been plain to see the lack of high order critical thinking (regardless of "IQ") in the Kingdom. Compounded by a lack of will.

 

Sorry nchuckle, didn't mean to rain on your day.

[smotherb]

On 12/16/2017 at 12:01 PM, johncat1 said:

Will this ban include pick-ups and converted pick-ups  that transport students to schools Most of which are severely overloaded  ?

Aha, the prime problem with that law--all songtaews, tuk-tuks (3 and 4 wheel) are or should be included--what is the difference. Then what about the flatbed trucks with benches and a top that carry school children, or just the flatbed trucks which commonly carry laborers?

[Russell17au]

12 minutes ago, smotherb said:

Aha, the prime problem with that law--all songtaews, tuk-tuks (3 and 4 wheel) are or should be included--what is the difference. Then what about the flatbed trucks with benches and a top that carry school children, or just the flatbed trucks which commonly carry laborers?

Pick ups outside of Bangkok and Songtaews are exempt. It is only for the pick ups in Bangkok. It is another stupid Bangkok only law same as the no more road check points except for breath testing, and that is Bangkok only. It just shows how far out of touch these idiots are with reality, they have the highest road carnage in the world and they are only interested in what is happening in Bangkok. There are more fatalities outside of Bangkok you idiots than what happen in Bangkok. The government have now lost face with the world about this issue and they need to do something dramatic to change things and not only in Bangkok but nation wide.

[smotherb]

Just now, Russell17au said:

Pick ups outside of Bangkok and Songtaews are exempt. It is only for the pick ups in Bangkok. It is another stupid Bangkok only law same as the no more road check points except for breath testing, and that is Bangkok only. It just shows how far out of touch these idiots are with reality, they have the highest road carnage in the world and they are only interested in what is happening in Bangkok. There are more fatalities outside of Bangkok you idiots than what happen in Bangkok. The government have now lost face with the world about this issue and they need to do something dramatic to change things and not only in Bangkok but nation wide.

Please, the law is still on the books and it was for all Thailand--whatever special things they do, or try to do, with Bangkok doesn't change the ridiculousness of it. I got involved with a couple of Thai friends and a local police commander discussing this law when it first came out. The usual arguments arose; one of major reasons people bought pick-ups was to carry people in the back. The policeman scoffed at the idea; he said it would never be enforced except on special occasions.

[spidermike007]

Like every other policy instituted by this administration it will last two week. Then it will be forgotten. Follow up is not exactly their strong suit.

[Happyman58]

5 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Like every other policy instituted by this administration it will last two week. Then it will be forgotten. Follow up is not exactly their strong suit.

 

5 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Like every other policy instituted by this administration it will last two week. Then it will be forgotten. Follow up is not exactly their strong suit.

Correct Mike  Thais just love paperwork Save face

[lvr181]

8 hours ago, spidermike007 said:

Like every other policy instituted by this administration it will last two week. Then it will be forgotten. Follow up is not exactly their strong suit.

Can I make a small amendment here spidermike007? 

 

"Follow up is not exactly their strong suit."

[metisdead]

An off topic post has been removed.