Best approach to long stay visa in Thailand

[DavidB1960]

Look for advice on my continuing quest for long stay Visa in Thailand. 

Current situation:

57 yo single American 44 days into my 60 +30 day tourist visa

Obtained long term lease on condo in Jomtien

just opened bank acct and currently in process of transferring +800k baht for start of seasoning.

Since i dont have enough time on current visa to get 60 day seasoning of bank funds needed to apply for conversion to non-imm type O, i will need to make a visa run. Thinking of going to Penang.

Questions:

1) Should i just get a new Tourist Visa in Penang and continue my current process for long stay here in Thailand or would i be smarter to go ahead and obtain a Non-imm Type O instead. 

2) If it is advisable to get the Non-imm Type O in Penang, what documents would i need to have/take with me? What would it cost? Any likely complications i should be aware of like background checks, medical certs?

3) Again if applying for Non-imm Type O in Penang, Do Thailand bank funds have to be "seasoned" to apply at this point or can i just show current brokerage acct stmt from US?

 

Thanks for any advice

David

[Lite Beer]

The money does not have to be in the bank for 60 days when converting to a Non Imm  Visa. 

 

Only when applying for a 12 month extension. 

 

If you want to get a visa from abroad it would be better to get a Non Imm  O  Visa. 

Edited December 16, 2017 by Lite Beer

[steve187]

the money only has to be in the bank, no seasoning required when you apply for a conversion to non imm 'O', but you need to have 15 days left on your permission to stay when you apply.

if you are leaving the country for a new visa then it is best to gt a non imm ;O' visa as it makes the process easier, but yo could do a border hop for a 30 day visa exempt entry and do the conversioan from that.

on the subject of conversions are you sure your local immigration office will do a conversion for the 2,000 baht, without the use of an 'agent' costing you more

Edited December 16, 2017 by steve187

[phuketrichard]

go take a vacation to Laos, Cambodia, Burma or Malaysia for a few days and while there obtain a non o visa for around 2,000 baht, than after 2 months start the extension process.

Quite easy and painless

[JackThompson]

 

2 hours ago, Lite Beer said:

The money does not have to be in the bank for 60 days when converting to a Non Imm  Visa.  

Only when applying for a 12 month extension. 

Although that is the official rule (if applying in Bangkok's Chang Wattana, for instance) it's not the case at many immigration-offices.  Some require the seasoning for the conversion, and/or add other additional requirements, and/or even disallow specific qualification-paths in the official list. 

 

2 hours ago, Lite Beer said:

If you want to get a visa from abroad it would be better to get a Non Imm  O Visa. 

Agreed - Savannakhet or Penang are the best choices.  Just be aware that they require the embassy income-letter now (showing some amount of income), even if using the money in-the-bank to meet the financials.

[Farangdanny]

12 hours ago, JackThompson said:

 

Although that is the official rule (if applying in Bangkok's Chang Wattana, for instance) it's not the case at many immigration-offices.  Some require the seasoning for the conversion, and/or add other additional requirements, and/or even disallow specific qualification-paths in the official list. 

 

Agreed - Savannakhet or Penang are the best choices.  Just be aware that they require the embassy income-letter now (showing some amount of income), even if using the money in-the-bank to meet the financials.

Use a reliable agent. No worry,no hastle, no travel. If you want a name, PM me.

[DavidB1960]

15 hours ago, steve187 said:

the money only has to be in the bank, no seasoning required when you apply for a conversion to non imm 'O', but you need to have 15 days left on your permission to stay when you apply.

if you are leaving the country for a new visa then it is best to gt a non imm ;O' visa as it makes the process easier, but yo could do a border hop for a 30 day visa exempt entry and do the conversioan from that.

on the subject of conversions are you sure your local immigration office will do a conversion for the 2,000 baht, without the use of an 'agent' costing you more

Yes, ive heard mixed reports of needing a specific agent to do the conversion at jomtien office. Can anyone confirm this recently?

If applying for a non-imm t-O in Penang, the official rules from thai embassy in Penang say to do that i need background check AND medical cert from home country which would be giant PIA.

[JackThompson]

11 minutes ago, Farangdanny said:

Use a reliable agent. No worry,no hastle, no travel. If you want a name, PM me.

 

But why do immigration officers processes agent-submitted applications while refusing those submitted directly?   Why do we have so many reports of people successfully avoiding meeting the specified criteria for their extension via agents, while others who meet every official-requirement are refused?  I would love to have an agent post the reason they are able to successfully submit applications, denied to honest applicants.

 

It stands to reason that money changing hands is that reason (though I am open to other suggestions).  Therefore, one reason I don't use agents, is that I do not wish to feed a destructive-cycle - immigration officials making it increasingly harder for honest people to have their applications processed, due to a perverse incentive to force applicants to line their pockets via passed-on agent fees. 

 

Another important consideration, is that immigration has an important role in protecting the country.  There really are "bad guys" we don't want in our midst.  How would "bad guys" get their conversions and extensions processed? 

 

A third concern, is how to know which agents are honest - do not participate in corruption or process "bad guy" applications?  Who knows when a corruption investigation will commence, and everyone who used agents involved in illegal activity become suspects? 

 

When left with no other choice but to use an agent for a conversion, I went to a consulate for a Non-O visa, specifically to avoid contributing to the problem.

[JackThompson]

9 minutes ago, DavidB1960 said:

If applying for a non-imm t-O in Penang, the official rules from thai embassy in Penang say to do that i need background check AND medical cert from home country which would be giant PIA.

You don't need those at Savannakhet. 

I'm not sure on Penang.  They are required at Vientiane.  Also not sure if they have to be from your home-country, even when required. 

 

There is one PITA with Non-Os for retirement even at Savannaket which remains:  Even if using the "money in the bank" method, you will need to get an embassy-income-doc also.  That doc doesn't need to show 65K/mo, if you have 800K in the bank, but needs to show some income.  One report stated they are using this as some sort of "anti-money laundering" check.

 

Note that the "money in the bank" doesn't need to be in a Thai bank, when applying at a consulate abroad.

Edited December 17, 2017 by JackThompson

[dorayme]

Any chance that you have a pension that added to the income you have in the bank would meet the 800,000 requirement?

Also, you might want to consider have a Thai account in U.S.$ so you can convert the funds when the exchange rate is goo.

[DavidB1960]

31 minutes ago, JackThompson said:

 

But why do immigration officers processes agent-submitted applications while refusing those submitted directly?   Why do we have so many reports of people successfully avoiding meeting the specified criteria for their extension via agents, while others who meet every official-requirement are refused?  I would love to have an agent post the reason they are able to successfully submit applications, denied to honest applicants.

 

It stands to reason that money changing hands is that reason (though I am open to other suggestions).  Therefore, one reason I don't use agents, is that I do not wish to feed a destructive-cycle - immigration officials making it increasingly harder for honest people to have their applications processed, due to a perverse incentive to force applicants to line their pockets via passed-on agent fees. 

 

Another important consideration, is that immigration has an important role in protecting the country.  There really are "bad guys" we don't want in our midst.  How would "bad guys" get their conversions and extensions processed? 

 

A third concern, is how to know which agents are honest - do not participate in corruption or process "bad guy" applications?  Who knows when a corruption investigation will commence, and everyone who used agents involved in illegal activity become suspects? 

 

When left with no other choice but to use an agent for a conversion, I went to a consulate for a Non-O visa, specifically to avoid contributing to the problem.

Appreciate the response Jack and wholeheartly agree with you. That is exactly what i was thinking in just getting a non-imm T-O from Penang. 

[DavidB1960]

25 minutes ago, dorayme said:

Any chance that you have a pension that added to the income you have in the bank would meet the 800,000 requirement?

Also, you might want to consider have a Thai account in U.S.$ so you can convert the funds when the exchange rate is goo.

I dont have a true "pension" but i do have investments producing abt $20k US income. Which i would have understood having the bank acct in USD before i set that up but that is water under bridge at this point. 

Thanks for your input.

[ubonjoe]

46 minutes ago, DavidB1960 said:

If applying for a non-imm t-O in Penang, the official rules from thai embassy in Penang say to do that i need background check AND medical cert from home country which would be giant PIA.

Not sure what website you are reading. The Penang consulate's website has no specific requirement on it. The visa page on the website leads to the department of consular affairs and is only general information. See: http://www.thaiembassy.org/penang/

There is not requirement at Penang to have the medical or police certificate.

Just 800k baht in the bank with proof you are retired or proof of 65k bahtincome or a combination of the 2.

[Dan5]

10 minutes ago, DavidB1960 said:

Appreciate the response Jack and wholeheartly agree with you. That is exactly what i was thinking in just getting a non-imm T-O from Penang. 

Who cares. If they can help and you can afford it, use them. As far as them paying off immigration, who knows and who cares. Why be so moralistic about it?

[DavidB1960]

6 minutes ago, ubonjoe said:

Not sure what website you are reading. The Penang consulate's website has no specific requirement on it. The visa page on the website leads to the department of consular affairs and is only general information. See: http://www.thaiembassy.org/penang/

There is not requirement at Penang to have the medical or police certificate.

Just 800k baht in the bank with proof you are retired or proof of 65k bahtincome or a combination of the 2.

Thanks ubonjoe, you are correct, i hit a link on the thai embassy penang website that took me back to consular website in thailand. 

http://www.consular.go.th/main/th/services/1287/19769-การตรวจลงตราสำหรับคนต่างชาติที่อายุ-50-ปีขึ้นไป-เข.html

thanks!

[DavidB1960]

10 minutes ago, Dan5 said:

Who cares. If they can help and you can afford it, use them. As far as them paying off immigration, who knows and who cares. Why be so moralistic about it?

I see your point Dan. Just believe that corruption feeds more corruption. I know it will always be there but if i can achieve the same end result trying to follow some "rules" with maybe a few extra steps, im okay with that. 

Cheers.

[kokopelli]

David, why not get a letter from US Embassy in Bangkok certifying that you meet the income requirements? Easy to do. No proof is required.

[DavidB1960]

29 minutes ago, kokopelli said:

David, why not get a letter from US Embassy in Bangkok certifying that you meet the income requirements? Easy to do. No proof is required.

Kokopelli,

Thanks for comment.

With my current investment structure, i cant quite meet the 800k income stream. Im 60% cash and not comfortable diving into a market at its tops just so i can.

I think i will be doing this though to document an income that i can use in Penang to apply for a type-O visa and avoid having to do the conversion in Thailand. 

[DavidB1960]

On 12/16/2017 at 8:42 PM, Lite Beer said:

The money does not have to be in the bank for 60 days when converting to a Non Imm  Visa. 

 

Only when applying for a 12 month extension. 

 

If you want to get a visa from abroad it would be better to get a Non Imm  O  Visa. 

Well, went today with my complete; Change to Non_immigrant "O", document package to test whether Jomtien would accept with "un-seasoned" bank funds. 

She said document package looked good BUT!

No Can Do, BANK FUNDS MUST BE SEASONED MINIMUM OF 60 DAYS in order to apply.  I was then made to listen to the IO's case for why I should use the "expedited service" (my label not hers). For just 20k Baht can process no problem. She made the case that since i would need to leave the country and come back in to afford the seasoning of the bank funds together with the visa costs to return and the application costs to complete the change of status etc, etc it would be a good deal! I said I would need to think about that and she replied that price good all day today, seeming to imply it might go up if i decide to do it later.

She actually seemed annoyed with me for wasting her time as i got up and left.

 

As follow-up when I got home i called Division I Immigration in Bangkok and spoke to an IO there and asked him to confirm whether the bank funds needed to be seasoned or not. It was a difficult conversation as my thai is pretty poor but after 20 minutes I got him to clearly admit that no time seasoning of the bank funds is not required to apply for Non-O change! He did crawfish with "but the IO you see may ask you for some other things" basically implying it is totally at the discretion of the IO.

 

Im planning to hop on a bus tomorrow to Bangkok and visit immigration there with my document package.

Has anyone recently tried applying for a visa change from TR to Non-O in Bangkok who has residence outside of Bangkok?

Would love to hear the results.

 

It's a good thing I have time on my hands.....

 

 

 

 

[BritTim]

1 hour ago, DavidB1960 said:

Im planning to hop on a bus tomorrow to Bangkok and visit immigration there with my document package.

Has anyone recently tried applying for a visa change from TR to Non-O in Bangkok who has residence outside of Bangkok?

I regret to report that there have been multiple reports of people trying to apply for the conversion in Bangkok (without a Bangkok address) and being told to apply at their local immigration. Some officials may not check too carefully if you have a hotel address in Bangkok, and say you are staying there temporarily while looking for a permanent place to live.

[overherebc]

On 17/12/2017 at 12:57 PM, JackThompson said:

You don't need those at Savannakhet. 

I'm not sure on Penang.  They are required at Vientiane.  Also not sure if they have to be from your home-country, even when required. 

 

There is one PITA with Non-Os for retirement even at Savannaket which remains:  Even if using the "money in the bank" method, you will need to get an embassy-income-doc also.  That doc doesn't need to show 65K/mo, if you have 800K in the bank, but needs to show some income.  One report stated they are using this as some sort of "anti-money laundering" check.

 

Note that the "money in the bank" doesn't need to be in a Thai bank, when applying at a consulate abroad.

To get a Non O in Penang no seasoning of money is required, it just has to shown as in the bank. Bank book copy of bank book and letter from Thai bank.

Was 400,000 if married, copies of mar'cert', wife's ID etc for multi and 200,00 for single 90 day.

Seasoning for 2 or 3 months is for the 1 year extension of stay at Imm' offices in Thailand.

 

[DavidB1960]

1 hour ago, BritTim said:

I regret to report that there have been multiple reports of people trying to apply for the conversion in Bangkok (without a Bangkok address) and being told to apply at their local immigration. Some officials may not check too carefully if you have a hotel address in Bangkok, and say you are staying there temporarily while looking for a permanent place to live.

I was afraid of that.

I think i've got a way i can work it via the income affidavit.

So now it is just a matter of how quickly I can get that documentation together. 

[BritTim]

4 hours ago, DavidB1960 said:

I was afraid of that.

I think i've got a way i can work it via the income affidavit.

So now it is just a matter of how quickly I can get that documentation together. 

(Repeating only what has been reported on this board)

I regret to tell you that non accepting unseasoned funds for the conversion is not the only unofficial rule Jomtien use to try to push you towards their premium service. They are also reported not to accept income affidavits.

[DavidB1960]

8 hours ago, BritTim said:

(Repeating only what has been reported on this board)

I regret to tell you that non accepting unseasoned funds for the conversion is not the only unofficial rule Jomtien use to try to push you towards their premium service. They are also reported not to accept income affidavits.

Really?

Thanks for the heads up!

Guess it will be Penang then.

[Farangdanny]

Better to use reliable agent

[DavidB1960]

On 12/17/2017 at 1:43 PM, DavidB1960 said:

Thanks ubonjoe, you are correct, i hit a link on the thai embassy penang website that took me back to consular website in thailand. 

http://www.consular.go.th/main/th/services/1287/19769-การตรวจลงตราสำหรับคนต่างชาติที่อายุ-50-ปีขึ้นไป-เข.html

thanks!

Hey, i just remembered, i have an unused onward throwaway ticket to HCMC i can use to get a Non-O. Do you know whether HCMC requires any med certs or police report?

Also, are there any other "gotchas" you can think of unique to HCMC?

 

As i read it, the Thai embassy there offers a long stay "O-A" visa for USD$200, but the doc requirements appear to just mirror the more onerous Thai Consulate Generals requirements:

http://www.thaiembassy.org/hochiminh/en/services/54613-Non-Immigrant-Visa--“O-A”-(Long-Stay).html

 

Im trying to call the HCMC consulate to ask them directly but having trouble getting through.

[ubonjoe]

4 minutes ago, DavidB1960 said:

Hey, i just remembered, i have an unused onward throwaway ticket to HCMC i can use to get a Non-O. Do you know whether HCMC requires any med certs or police report?

I don't recall any reports of them issuing a single entry non-o visa for being 50 or over.

The only location that want the medical and police certificates is Vientiane.

6 minutes ago, DavidB1960 said:

As i read it, the Thai embassy there offers a long stay "O-A" visa for USD$200, but the doc requirements appear to just mirror the more onerous Thai Consulate Generals requirements:

Unless you are Vietnamese or a legal resident there you will not be able to apply for a OA visa there. They can only can be applied for in your home country or country of legal residence.

[sfokevin]

Many have reported that Penang is a pain at Immigration... you might consider Vientiane... They are much more friendly... and the city is more fun to visit...

 

One caveat on Vientiane... there are some days of the week it is a zoo there as the hordes of visa buses come in (I recall they are there on Tue & Thur)... research and arrange a day that the visa busses do not come

Edited December 28, 2017 by sfokevin

[DavidB1960]

1 hour ago, ubonjoe said:

I don't recall any reports of them issuing a single entry non-o visa for being 50 or over.

The only location that want the medical and police certificates is Vientiane.

Unless you are Vietnamese or a legal resident there you will not be able to apply for a OA visa there. They can only can be applied for in your home country or country of legal residence.

Thanks.

i can hear farangdanny snickering in the background....

[DavidB1960]

On 12/27/2017 at 2:56 AM, BritTim said:

(Repeating only what has been reported on this board)

I regret to tell you that non accepting unseasoned funds for the conversion is not the only unofficial rule Jomtien use to try to push you towards their premium service. They are also reported not to accept income affidavits.

Okay, from what you know, will Jomtien accept/process my TR to Non-O application if my bank funds ARE seasoned?