California launches legal sale of cannabis for recreational use

[mtls2005]

In Massachusetts, my home state, voters approved a referendum in November, 2016 to legalize recreational marijuana. Lawmakers, with much outside pressure, had sought to delay retail sales, but now it looks like sales may begin July 1, 2018. Tax will be 20% (17% to the state, 3% to the local town which has a shop), it was 12% on the ballot initiative. Mass. may have "social use licenses" meaning more cafe-like - think Amsterdam, as well as shops? Even massage/aroma therapy places may offer cannabis.

 

As far as I know, Driving Under the Influence (DUI) covers most/any/all substances? I'm not certain how they'll handle pot in Mass as field sobriety tests cannot be used as evidence of marijuana impairment. Blood concentration limits (THC) are established.

[alex8912]

1 minute ago, timendres said:

Yes, I agree. Drunk and stoned are very different experiences, and I find stoned people to be more "rational" in general. My friend in CA, who grew and smoked incessantly, was quite cavalier about driving stoned. I always disagreed with him on that point. The roads are a dangerous place, so let's drive sober. It is not that much to ask. This is one thing I have really enjoyed about being in Bangkok. It is so easy to use the BTS, get a taxi, or hop on a motocy, that I feel free to enjoy a party and not worry about getting on the road endangering others.

Yes me too! Boston cabs are insanely expensive and I live an 18 minute walk to the closet subway and it's minus 18 each night this week. I'm in BKK now a 4 minute walk to the sky train, motocy taxi at the soi and a taxi a one minute ride away that for some reason 99% automatically uses his meter! I am a big BKK fan. I even have Thai friends who often let me use their car and even if I had one beer I would never do it. Now if they know I had one they don't even ask. At home I am a little more reluctant to put down the keys because of what I write above and it's stupid. 

[Slip]

5 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

In Massachusetts, my home state, voters approved a referendum in November, 2016 to legalize recreational marijuana. Lawmakers, with much outside pressure, had sought to delay retail sales, but now it looks like sales may begin July 1, 2018. Tax will be 20% (17% to the state, 3% to the local town which has a shop), it was 12% on the ballot initiative. Mass. may have "social use licenses" meaning more cafe-like - think Amsterdam, as well as shops? Even massage/aroma therapy places may offer cannabis.

 

As far as I know, Driving Under the Influence (DUI) covers most/any/all substances? I'm not certain how they'll handle pot in Mass as field sobriety tests cannot be used as evidence of marijuana impairment. Blood concentration limits (THC) are established.

The UK has a field test that covers THC now.  I have no idea how effective it is, but it is in use so I guess it must be ok.

Edited January 2, 2018 by Slip

[mtls2005]

Just now, Slip said:

The UK has a field test that covers THC now. 

 

I was referring to Massachusetts, where the State Supreme Judicial Court ruled against field test for marijuana use. Not sure what will be done, but the authorities are saying they will come up with something.

 

http://www.wbur.org/news/2017/09/19/mass-sjc-rules-field-sobriety-tests-arent-conclusive-evidence-of-marijuana-intoxication

[alex8912]

16 minutes ago, mtls2005 said:

In Massachusetts, my home state, voters approved a referendum in November, 2016 to legalize recreational marijuana. Lawmakers, with much outside pressure, had sought to delay retail sales, but now it looks like sales may begin July 1, 2018. Tax will be 20% (17% to the state, 3% to the local town which has a shop), it was 12% on the ballot initiative. Mass. may have "social use licenses" meaning more cafe-like - think Amsterdam, as well as shops? Even massage/aroma therapy places may offer cannabis.

 

As far as I know, Driving Under the Influence (DUI) covers most/any/all substances? I'm not certain how they'll handle pot in Mass as field sobriety tests cannot be used as evidence of marijuana impairment. Blood concentration limits (THC) are established.

They are working in it but it's just not that simple and lets face it one puff verses a lot is just a huge difference. The cops around Boston and even the rich suburban cops there have really been looking the other way even if they see you smoking. I did not know anyone who got the $100 fine for having it found in their car either while it was decriminalized. I know several cops and they said they just left it alone. The difference compared to the USA and Netherlands is big. Its not legal there and they get way less on taxes and revenue that the States  get. I never really understood that. The Dutch never have made millions or billions off weed. Kind of stupid. Also in Massachusetts a lot of the tax dollars will go to REAL drug funding like our horrible opioid epidemic.    In the States it's strange it's not legal federally but certain states have just gone forward and legalized it. It will be very interesting as I live just outside Boston from late spring through summer as to how Massachusetts handles all this. But they better get going for 7/1/2018 and not delay it again. The voters have spoken and there are a lot of smaaaaty pants people in MA! Get it lol 

Edited January 2, 2018 by alex8912

[jvs]

28 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

The Dutch never have made millions or billions off weed

Yes they did,just not the government.A lot of people from all walks of life have been growing it,upstairs or in the garage.

A lot of that money is being spend to by all kinds of stuff.I am not talking organized crime but people who want to make some extra money the easy way.

In a way the government is also getting some of the money through taxes on the things bought from this money.

 

[alex8912]

5 minutes ago, jvs said:

Yes they did,just not the government.A lot of people from all walks of life have been growing it,upstairs or in the garage.

A lot of that money is being spend to by all kinds of stuff.I am not talking organized crime but people who want to make some extra money the easy way.

In a way the government is also getting some of the money through taxes on the things bought from this money.

 

Not even a small fraction of what California will make in the first year. The Dutch are doing it wrong. The real stats will come this time next year. The figures will be mind blowing! Super high!  All walks of life AND the governments in the states will make Billions and billions in 2018. The Dutch simply won't. You just aren't making the big bucks growing it upstairs or in the garage and the Dutch don't even have basements lol.  Also they don't have thousands of acres to grow it on. The Netherlands is one of the most densely populated countries in the world and has about two months of summer!!  

 

Edited January 2, 2018 by alex8912

[Dagnabbit]

Just heard from a friend in Cali.

Apoarently they introduced this law for all the liberals suffering from Trump Derangement Syndrome.

It's expected to alleviate the stress on the mental health system there.

Sent from my SM-A720F using Tapatalk

[MyFriend You]

9 hours ago, Berkshire said:

Can only hope that Sessions and Trump don't spoil the party.

The President doesn't make laws, Sessions can only enforce existing Federal laws - it is interesting because possession of Marijuana is still against Federal Law, as well as the proceeds from legal sales are still in violation - so you can't legally deposit money made from marijuana sales into a Federally Insured Bank...........Colorado is having that problem for past two years.  What to do with the Cash!!!

[luk AJ]

You are so far off the mark that you must be drunk to post such nonsense!! 
Millions  are driving right now around the world stoned and having no problems and coming home and chilling and off to bed. On the other hand the drunk ones are killing and harming others on the road and the ones who make it home often beat their wife and trash the house and/ or trailer because booze is so cheap. Talk to ( especially ) a big city cop and ask them the difference between a driver drunk or stoned. 
My last point is don't bother searching for some link trying to discredit my post. It just won't fly! Ask the police!!

No I am not drunk, actually I don’t drink any alcohol and please try to calm down, this is a forum where members can post their own vision which can defer from others but lets keep it polite ok?
Maybe people are not stoned from one cig but neither are they drunk from one beer.
You mention that millions of people are driving stoned right now? That’s exactly my concern reflected in my post.


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[alex8912]

37 minutes ago, luk AJ said:

No I am not drunk, actually I don’t drink any alcohol and please try to calm down, this is a forum where members can post their own vision which can defer from others but lets keep it polite ok?
Maybe people are not stoned from one cig but neither are they drunk from one beer.
You mention that millions of people are driving stoned right now? That’s exactly my concern reflected in my post.


Sent from my iPhone using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

I sometimes wish forums could be voice instead of text cause my statement is more sarcastic and I don't think you are drunk. I just think people who smoke weed more regularly are less likely to be involved in traffic accidents than a drinker who had a few. I also mentioned that MANY people who smoke pot just sometimes,  are rarely into taking keys into their hands and drive. I know many many people who use weed rarely and they are usually too paranoid to drive to cut to the chase! There is something about alcohol that make many many many people THINK " I just had a couple lets go home now and I will drive" mentality. I think the people who smoke less weed and drive know this. Another poster agreed with me. The more paranoid casual pot smokers would rather hang out and have two more slices of pizza than drive! 

And I actually disagree on your point of saying just one cig ( I assume you mean one joint) is similar to one beer. If you are smoking alone or with one friend one joint of the good stuff will affect many more than one beer. But there are just a few real reports out about this and many have been disproven so far. Finally if I had to choose driving home with a handful of drunks on the roadway home or a handful of stoners I would choose to drive with the stoners ( but they drive QUITE slow lol). 

Edited January 2, 2018 by alex8912

[wpcoe]

5 hours ago, wpcoe said:

What was the going price for a pre-2018 (i.e. illegal) ounce of weed in California?

 

4 hours ago, alex8912 said:

Easily $400 same on East coast for high quality which is what Cali is selling. 

 

So, if it's selling for $250 now, that's quiet a drop on price even with the taxes.

[Berkshire]

10 hours ago, malibukid said:

time for Thailand to join the 21st. century

Nevermind Thailand, how about most of America?  Not to mention the feds. 

[snooky]

15 hours ago, luk AJ said:

I am surprised everybody is in favor, in principle I don’t care too much what people do but driving stoned is as worse as drink driving..this is my only concern.


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1

I am surprised that no news commentators have ever mentioned the worst aspect of pot smoking - the awful stench that it produces smells worse than three-week-old baby diapers full of poo.  And it gets into the clothes of the smoker, making them smell worse than someone with body odor who has not taken a bath for three weeks.  The rest of us who do not smoke this s--t are going to have to endure many hours of this crap.  Not anywhere near as bad as alcohol, where we only smell the user after he has fallen down drunk in the street and we can just run a street sweeper over them to clean them up a bit.  Should be banned from all public places, outside of office building and any place where large crowds congregate

[impulse]

14 hours ago, alex8912 said:

Its not legal there and they get way less on taxes and revenue that the States  get. I never really understood that. The Dutch never have made millions or billions off weed. Kind of stupid.

 

But they've saved $$$ billions by not chasing, prosecuting and incarcerating people who imbibe in a substance that's not half as hazardous as booze.  Not to mention the lives, careers and families that weren't ruined when otherwise law abiding citizens aren't locked up and branded with a criminal record that prevents them from ever getting a decent job.  Think of all the income taxes they've gained just from that.  Not to mention all that government paid health care they didn't have to provide to people whose hearts and livers were spared when they chose weed over booze.

 

Edit:  And bringing it closer to home, think of all the western tourists that would flock to Thai beaches if weed were legalized.  They may have to build more airports...

 

Edited January 2, 2018 by impulse

[Kim1950]

 

Roll another one,
Just like the other one.
You been holding onto it,
And I sure would like a hit!

Don't bogart that joint my friend,
Pass it…

[boomerangutang]

21 hours ago, Dagnabbit said:

LMAO... The holier than thou poster was a drug dealer!

What's your definition of a drug dealer?

Here's mine:  anyone, any entity dealing drugs.

 

That would include pharma, .....

 

Gilead Sciences. Revenue: $24.474 billion. ...
Bayer. Revenue: $25.47 billion. ...
AstraZeneca. Revenue: $26.095 billion. ...
GlaxoSmithKline. Revenue: $37.96 billion. ...
Merck. Revenue: $42.237 billion. ...
Sanofi. Revenue: $43.07 billion. ...
Pfizer. Revenue: $49.605 billion. ...
Roche. Revenue: $49.86 billion.

 

.....and alcoholic drink dealers (numbers are billions. From 2013). Look at #14:

 

1. Anheuser-Busch / Leuven, Belgium/New York, N.Y. – $39,046.1
2. SABMiller plc / London, U.K. – $28,249.2
3. Heineken / Amsterdam, The Netherlands – $22,171.7
4. Kirin Holdings / Tokyo, Japan – $16,897.3
5. Diageo / London, U.K. – $16,630.6
6. Asahi Group Holdings Ltd. / Toko, Japan – $11,773.3
7. Carlsberg / Copenhagen, Denmark – $11,069.6
8. Pernod Ricard / Paris, France – $10,402.3 
9. Southern Wine and Spirits / Miami, FL, USA – $9,000.0
10. Grupo Modelo  / Mexico City, Mexico – $7,100.0
11. Suntory Holdings Limited / Tokyo, Japan – $6,808.6 / 
12. Moet Hennessy-Louis Vuitton / Paris, France – $4,563.1
13. Republic National Distributing Co. / Houston, Texas – $4,500.0
14.Thaibev / Thailand – $3,921.5

 

Note: Alcohol and Pharma drugs, individually, each kill more than all illegal drugs combined.

 

It's plain to see, from the trillions of dollars of revenue annually that alcohol and pharma suck in, that neither want to see pot gaining a place at their table.

[boomerangutang]

23 minutes ago, Kim1950 said:

Roll another one,
Just like the other one.
You been holding onto it,
And I sure would like a hit!

Don't bogart that joint my friend,
Pass it…

That song has the dubious distinction (as far as I can tell) of being the only song ever written which uses the word 'it' as part of its rhyming scheme.

[Denim]

7 minutes ago, boomerangutang said:

That song has the dubious distinction (as far as I can tell) of being the only song ever written which uses the word 'it' as part of its rhyming scheme.

 

Try ' Faking it ' ....Simon and Garfunkel from Bookends album.

[alex8912]

4 hours ago, impulse said:

 

But they've saved $$$ billions by not chasing, prosecuting and incarcerating people who imbibe in a substance that's not half as hazardous as booze.  Not to mention the lives, careers and families that weren't ruined when otherwise law abiding citizens aren't locked up and branded with a criminal record that prevents them from ever getting a decent job.  Think of all the income taxes they've gained just from that.  Not to mention all that government paid health care they didn't have to provide to people whose hearts and livers were spared when they chose weed over booze.

 

Edit:  And bringing it closer to home, think of all the western tourists that would flock to Thai beaches if weed were legalized.  They may have to build more airports...

 

They have not saved billions because the population of Holland is only 14 million or so. The states will save billions for sure. Many states  have decriminalized already. You also only quoted a small part of my post. You are also comparing the PAST for Holland with the PAST with USA. The thing about Thailand legalizing it I don't agree with either. Marijuana is inferior here. It really sucks and no one will flock here for low grade crap.  Thailand would never invest in growing high quality GREENISH weed. I don't even think the extra hot climate can grow good weed like in California. 

My post was about true massive billion dollar gains not side gains comparing " what ifs" from the past  as yours. 

Please don't only quote a small part of a post it is agsinst forum rules and I also do not appreciate it.  The Dutch simply do not do it right. 

Edited January 3, 2018 by alex8912

[impulse]

1 minute ago, alex8912 said:

They have not saved billions because the population of Holland is only 14 million or so. The states will save billions for sure. Many states  have decriminalized already. You also only quoted a small part of my post. You are also comparing the PAST for Holland with the PAST with USA. The thing about Thailand legalizing it I don't agree with either. Marijuana is inferior here. It really sucks and no one will flock here for low grade crap.  Thailand would never invest in growing high quality GREENISH weed. I don't even think the extra hot climate can grow good weed like in California. 

My post was about true massive billion dollar gains not side gains as yours. 

Please don't only quote a small part of a post it is agsinst forum rules and I also do not appreciate it.  The Ductch simply do not do it right. 

 

My apologies if I missed your meaning, but I don't quote entire long posts if I'm replying to one sentence that is unambiguous taken on its own. 

 

I stand by my b in billions because that's only $71 a head in a population of 14 million.  They make that much in extra tax revenue from people who aren't locked out of decent jobs because of pot convictions.  Add the prison cells they aren't occupying at $20-50,000 a year and you're talking real money.

 

Regarding Thailand, I'm sure they're perfectly capable of growing world class weed.  And even if they didn't it's not the quality of the weed, it's the quality of the whole experience.  You could say the same about the quality of Thai beers.  Yet millions come here every year, and would spend their tourist $$$ elsewhere if they couldn't get beer in Thailand.  Even if it's crappy beer.

 

 

[Dagnabbit]

What's your definition of a drug dealer?
Here's mine:  anyone, any entity dealing drugs.
 
That would include pharma, .....
 
Gilead Sciences. Revenue: $24.474 billion. ...
Bayer. Revenue: $25.47 billion. ...
AstraZeneca. Revenue: $26.095 billion. ...
GlaxoSmithKline. Revenue: $37.96 billion. ...
Merck. Revenue: $42.237 billion. ...
Sanofi. Revenue: $43.07 billion. ...
Pfizer. Revenue: $49.605 billion. ...
Roche. Revenue: $49.86 billion.
 
.....and alcoholic drink dealers (numbers are billions. From 2013). Look at #14:
 
1. Anheuser-Busch / Leuven, Belgium/New York, N.Y. – $39,046.1
2. SABMiller plc / London, U.K. – $28,249.2
3. Heineken / Amsterdam, The Netherlands – $22,171.7
4. Kirin Holdings / Tokyo, Japan – $16,897.3
5. Diageo / London, U.K. – $16,630.6
6. Asahi Group Holdings Ltd. / Toko, Japan – $11,773.3
7. Carlsberg / Copenhagen, Denmark – $11,069.6
8. Pernod Ricard / Paris, France – $10,402.3 
9. Southern Wine and Spirits / Miami, FL, USA – $9,000.0
10. Grupo Modelo  / Mexico City, Mexico – $7,100.0
11. Suntory Holdings Limited / Tokyo, Japan – $6,808.6 / 
12. Moet Hennessy-Louis Vuitton / Paris, France – $4,563.1
13. Republic National Distributing Co. / Houston, Texas – $4,500.0
14.Thaibev / Thailand – $3,921.5
 
Note: Alcohol and Pharma drugs, individually, each kill more than all illegal drugs combined.
 
It's plain to see, from the trillions of dollars of revenue annually that alcohol and pharma suck in, that neither want to see pot gaining a place at their table.

Drug dealer - someone that sells illicit drugs.

You know full well what it is.

Scum of the earth all of them.

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[Berkshire]

20 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

The thing about Thailand legalizing it I don't agree with either. Marijuana is inferior here. It really sucks and no one will flock here for low grade crap.  Thailand would never invest in growing high quality GREENISH weed. I don't even think the extra hot climate can grow good weed like in California.

I'll admit I've been out of the scene a long time.  But when I was a young dude back in the USA, the Thai stick was considered top notch stuff. 

 

But anyways, if pot was ever legalized in Thailand, I'm pretty sure the Thais can produce top grade pot.  It's sort of difficult to invest in producing "high quality weed" when you're constantly trying to avoid the law. 

[mjnaus]

1 hour ago, alex8912 said:

The thing about Thailand legalizing it I don't agree with either. Marijuana is inferior here. It really sucks and no one will flock here for low grade crap.  Thailand would never invest in growing high quality GREENISH weed. I don't even think the extra hot climate can grow good weed like in California. 

 

You should really do some basic background research before posting such nonsense. A quick Google search would reveal that, long even that long ago, Thailand was renowned for growing some of the highest quality weed in the world.

[alex8912]

11 minutes ago, mjnaus said:

 

You should really do some basic background research before posting such nonsense. A quick Google search would reveal that, long even that long ago, Thailand was renowned for growing some of the highest quality weed in the world.

I am only talking about NOW. For some strange reason I think you are writing about the 1970's  or 1980's, Believe me I have done EXTENSIVE research.  Weed grown in Thailand is inferior in the 21 st century. Low quality , full of seeds and sticks, tastes horrible  and low THC levels.   Just like the poster above you Is also wrong. Thai stick was from the 70's and 80's pot has come a long way baby from the stone ages!!  The stuff from California is absolutely incomparable to weed ever from Thailand. 

Edited January 3, 2018 by alex8912

[alex8912]

1 hour ago, Berkshire said:

I'll admit I've been out of the scene a long time.  But when I was a young dude back in the USA, the Thai stick was considered top notch stuff. 

 

But anyways, if pot was ever legalized in Thailand, I'm pretty sure the Thais can produce top grade pot.  It's sort of difficult to invest in producing "high quality weed" when you're constantly trying to avoid the law. 

See my other post above. Many many countries have produced top notch weed without it being legal over the past 20+ years. Thai stick was back in the 70's and 80's some posters were not born yet or in diapers back then! 

[Berkshire]

7 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

See my other post above. Many many countries have produced top notch weed without it being legal over the past 20+ years. Thai stick was back in the 70's and 80's some posters were not born yet or in diapers back then! 

Ok, you're more of an expert than I on current conditions.  But you must at least concede that drug laws in Thailand are rather draconian, unlike the USA where 90% of the country at least approves of medical marijuana.  The Thais can be rather resourceful and I truly believe that if they were allowed to legally grow the stuff, they would be pretty darn good at it. 

[alex8912]

3 minutes ago, Berkshire said:

Ok, you're more of an expert than I on current conditions.  But you must at least concede that drug laws in Thailand are rather draconian, unlike the USA where 90% of the country at least approves of medical marijuana.  The Thais can be rather resourceful and I truly believe that if they were allowed to legally grow the stuff, they would be pretty darn good at it. 

I agree. But what really stinks about Thai laws is that the hemp itself here is really good for making so many useful things for even everyday life. I have read that the hill tribes have a history of it and it's quite sad that at least hemp can't be legally grown here it would be a huge plus for the economy especially in rural Thailand where so many people with little funds could prosper. I also agree that if medical marijuana was approved they would also get in on it I think a lot of it may have to be grown inside for best results and quality. It's too bad because many retired people here and Thais themselves could benefit from it. It would be a huge money maker as well as the useful purposes of hemp. I often wonder why Thailand does not see this potentially billion upon billion of baht industry. They could hold off on trying to sell it to everyone. Even in the west it has been a slow process but is really moving along quite well. Maybe California will be a model for Thailand. I know many Thais live there now.  

[thaibeachlovers]

Must be the only thing California has done right in a long time. Can we now see ALL drugs decriminalised? It should be people's choice.

[thaibeachlovers]

31 minutes ago, alex8912 said:

I agree. But what really stinks about Thai laws is that the hemp itself here is really good for making so many useful things for even everyday life. I have read that the hill tribes have a history of it and it's quite sad that at least hemp can't be legally grown here it would be a huge plus for the economy especially in rural Thailand where so many people with little funds could prosper. I also agree that if medical marijuana was approved they would also get in on it I think a lot of it may have to be grown inside for best results and quality. It's too bad because many retired people here and Thais themselves could benefit from it. It would be a huge money maker as well as the useful purposes of hemp. I often wonder why Thailand does not see this potentially billion upon billion of baht industry. They could hold off on trying to sell it to everyone. Even in the west it has been a slow process but is really moving along quite well. Maybe California will be a model for Thailand. I know many Thais live there now.  

Thai Drs won't even give legal ( prescription ) drugs to patients in pain, and prefer to let them suffer.

I can't see anything changing anytime soon.