Airbagwill Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 13 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said: and what is your point ? Until you have a proper picture of what is happening you can't expect to address the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell17au Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Airbagwill said: You seem to imply some epiphany realisation....never gonna happen. And even if it did the process is a long one. I detect a sea change in the Thai media though and people are starting to question policies on this. There are plenty of organisations both Thai, ASEAN and international that have campaigned for years for a sensible approach. A non democratic system of government by definition is far more likely to see incompetent people in positions where they aren't up to the job. Hopefully in the future a more meritocratic system will see people in charge of road safety who actually understand the issues. But it has to start at that top. It needs someone with the guts to start the ball rolling and appoint a minister that is pro-active and that is interested enough about his job to actually do something and not just stand there with their head in the sand and make speeches and have their photo taken. They have to get down and get their hands dirty and actually do something to start the process moving. You can go back to your democratically elected governments like Thaksin and Yingluck and it was still the same, no one cared enough to start the process rolling. You know what is needed and I know what is needed but getting them to see what is needed. It needs hard hurtful decisions if you are serious about it then it should not take years to implement the system that is needed. Edited January 4, 2018 by Russell17au Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
janpharma Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Business as usual...As long as they don't change their behaviour/attidude whilst driving nothing will change. Even if one put's a helmet on a monkey's head...it still drives like a monkey... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlakey Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 8 hours ago, smew said: Bravo, 62.5 per day, came up to the average, great program These were not normal days because of the celebrations I would expect many more incidents and nasty consequences than appears to be the case I know that it never works out like that during holidays in Thailand I have absolutely no idea why that seems to happen every time As bad as the figures are lets hope they have not been doctored Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airbagwill Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, oldlakey said: These were not normal days because of the celebrations I would expect many more incidents and nasty consequences than appears to be the case I know that it never works out like that during holidays in Thailand I have absolutely no idea why that seems to happen every time As bad as the figures are lets hope they have not been doctored In most countries public holidays result in a drop in road deaths and injuries...So maintaining the average is actually an increase...one needs to look at what is different...VKT, the kind of vehicles on the road...and the drivers, also police road blocks..I'm sure someone could think of more. As figures are so unreliable doctoring is not really an issue. The important thing is how stats reinterpreted. Statisticians are ostensible to get valid results from the most patchy of stats...... Edited January 4, 2018 by Airbagwill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlakey Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 2 minutes ago, Airbagwill said: You really need to understand your sources. The first 2 you cite are "ambulance chased" law firms drumming up business and Forbes are like your other sourcesvrecerring yo the USA a country with the worst road safety record in the west. What do you mean by drumming up business Are you suggesting they themselves caused the increase in the number of incidents during the holiday periods covered I only ask as I really need to understand Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimmer Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 A baiting post has been removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peperobi Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 10 hours ago, Italian guy said: 20000 as I've read somewhere recently... 26,000 is an average of 71,23 a day... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rimmer Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 A flame and a reply have been removed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Humpy Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 ...and what about the number who die of their injuries weeks later ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airbagwill Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 40 minutes ago, Humpy said: ...and what about the number who die of their injuries weeks later ? As has been said in the proper stats, deaths recorded are up to 30 days from the date of the crash. however it depends on who and how the sats are gethered......f you look at this thread, you will see several sources, primary secondary and even tertiary used.....which in itself is a total mess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metisdead Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Some off topic deflection posts and replies have been removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhonkaenExpat Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 You have to enforce the law to be able to prevent deaths on the road, that starts with Thais, having legitimate driving lessons and passing a legitimate driving test, so they know what the road signs and road markings mean, Plus the Police carrying out their jobs correctly and not accepting backhanders, to let people get away traffic infringements. Then they make a law no riding in the back of pickups, so stick to it, they lifted the ban for the holidays I wonder how many people were killed from riding in the back of pickups. It’s all a load bull. Banana Republic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell17au Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 1 hour ago, Humpy said: ...and what about the number who die of their injuries weeks later ? If you have a look at post 49 on page 4 you will see a breakdown of the daily figures for the 7 day holidays for the last 5 years. The system that has been used each of those 5 years is that if someone is injured on day 1 and they die on day 5 then they are listed under day 1 but the biggest problem is that once day 7 has gone there is no more update reporting of any deaths for the 7 days, so if someone injured on day 1 dies after day 7 then they are not listed under the 7 day system. This system has been used for the last 5 years so it is impossible to have the accurate figures but it does show a comparison between the years as the same system was used Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhunMhee Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 18 hours ago, Airbagwill said: again cherry picking your favourite road safety aspects and ignoring the whole picture will have little effect. Cherry picking from Forbes? It shows that though Thailand has a low vehicle per capita they have the second most accidents. How can this be twisted into cherry picking? Those figures are not taken from Thai stats alone. Dude you have said that holiday accidents on the road are less world wide and we all know that's a pile of the steaming stuff. Your facts are non existent. If you're going to discuss make sure you know what your talking about yea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhunMhee Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 12 hours ago, Airbagwill said: In most countries public holidays result in a drop in road deaths and injuries...So maintaining the average is actually an increase...one needs to look at what is different...VKT, the kind of vehicles on the road...and the drivers, also police road blocks..I'm sure someone could think of more. As figures are so unreliable doctoring is not really an issue. The important thing is how stats reinterpreted. Statisticians are ostensible to get valid results from the most patchy of stats...... <deleted> do any kind of search from the increased volume alone they don't. Let alone adding holiday cheer into the factor. You say every statistic is BS yet post nothing to back your claims. SO what are you the know all being? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airbagwill Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 20 minutes ago, KhunMhee said: Cherry picking from Forbes? It shows that though Thailand has a low vehicle per capita they have the second most accidents. How can this be twisted into cherry picking? Those figures are not taken from Thai stats alone. Dude you have said that holiday accidents on the road are less world wide and we all know that's a pile of the steaming stuff. Your facts are non existent. If you're going to discuss make sure you know what your talking about yea. you're getting your wires crossed....Forbes are using figures about the US. Thailand has the highest vehicle ownership per capita in the region. If you look at WHO figures for deaths per 100k vehicles Thailand is nowhere near the top of the list.I said that in most countries road death figures are the same or lower. The stats bear that out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airbagwill Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) 26 minutes ago, KhunMhee said: <deleted> do any kind of search from the increased volume alone they don't. Let alone adding holiday cheer into the factor. You say every statistic is BS yet post nothing to back your claims. SO what are you the know all being? I don't say the stats are "BS", I have pointed out the severe shortcomings in the way stats in Thailand are collected and analysed. How you misinterpret that is more a reflection of your comprehension of the road safety situation in Thailand than anything I've posted. You are in fact relying on false syllogism to assess my position on road safety. Edited January 4, 2018 by Airbagwill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhunMhee Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Airbagwill said: you're getting your wires crossed....Forbes are using figures about the US. Thailand has the highest vehicle ownership per capita in the region. If you look at WHO figures for deaths per 100k vehicles Thailand is nowhere near the top of the list.I said that in most countries road death figures are the same or lower. The stats bear that out. https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccarthy/2016/02/22/the-countries-with-the-most-per-capita-road-deaths-infographic/#10321233361a Dunno about comprehension but when I read this it seems to not be isolated into the US only. As I said pull facts out of the air all you want and then dismiss anyone else who posts links. Because I would doubt those places take the time to research and check facts prior to putting it online for the sake of say company reputation. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_per_capita Edited January 4, 2018 by KhunMhee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhunMhee Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 27 minutes ago, Airbagwill said: you're getting your wires crossed....Forbes are using figures about the US. Thailand has the highest vehicle ownership per capita in the region. If you look at WHO figures for deaths per 100k vehicles Thailand is nowhere near the top of the list.I said that in most countries road death figures are the same or lower. The stats bear that out. In the region? Last I looked the region of SEA Thailand is in the middle. With: South Korea, Japan, Brunei and Malaysia all beating Thailand out for vehicles per capita. Where are you getting your "Facts" from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Russell17au Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 10 hours ago, Airbagwill said: As has been said in the proper stats, deaths recorded are up to 30 days from the date of the crash. however it depends on who and how the sats are gethered......f you look at this thread, you will see several sources, primary secondary and even tertiary used.....which in itself is a total mess. another incorrect post by you. The facts are that if you read this thread properly it is about the 7 day New Year holiday road toll. The time frame for this thread is from midnight 27 December to midnight 3 January and the road toll for that period only. So I will explain to you how it works. Any accident that happens inside that time frame is recorded, any injuries that occur in that time frame are also recorded and any deaths that occur from injuries in that time frame are recorded as long as the person dies before the midnight 3 January cut off is also recorded for that 7 day period. Any deaths that occur after midnight of 3 January are not recorded for the 7 day New Year holiday period. Your post has nothing to do with the 7 day holiday period, it is about the yearly national road toll which this thread is not about. You should really read the threads and see what they are about and get the facts right before making incorrect postings and then turning to flaming or insults because people show that you are incorrect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keesters Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 23 hours ago, keithkarmann said: ...probably four times the deaths due to motor cycles.This is attributed to the lack of abiding by the laws of the road, lack of proper training, lack of driving licenses and the thinking that their Faith will protect them etc. Plus there are more motorcycles on the road due to a lack of a proper transport system away from Bangkok. It is not necessarily the motorcycle that causes the accident so your 'due to' (highlighted in the quote) is probably wrong.It should be replaced with 'to those riding'. And your 'lack of abiding by the laws of the road, lack of proper training, lack of driving licenses and the thinking that their Faith will protect them etc.' applies to any vehicle driver in Thailand not just motorcycle riders. Good effort at trying to blame MOTORCYCLES for all that is wrong on the Thai roads but you fail miserably in the facts. Everyday as a rider here I have to avoid idiot 4 wheel and bigger vehicles as they come speeding towards me with their I'm bigger than you, get out of my way attitude, their I'll do a U-Turn wherever, whenever I like, their overtake me and then immediately turn left in front of me driving. Motorcycle riders are generally very aware of the dangers of riding here and that when involved in an accident they are worse off. But they ARE NOT necessarily the CAUSE of the accidents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Italian guy Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 13 hours ago, peperobi said: 26,000 is an average of 71,23 a day... Not sure if it's accurate but I read it somewhere here recently. I can't remember the article but that number got stuck in my mind because it was really impressive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Italian guy Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 13 hours ago, peperobi said: 26,000 is an average of 71,23 a day... Here it is: "Thailand was recently named the most dangerous place in the world to drive. At average of at least 60 people die at the scene of accidents each day with a yearly death toll well in excess of 20,000." Here's the article: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keithkarmann Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 On 1/4/2018 at 11:01 AM, sometimewoodworker said: While I agree that the motorcycle death figures are depressingly high I would guess that you haven't travelled in a few other countries that I have. Taiwan has a very much higher number of motorcycles than Thailand as do Vietnam and Cambodia The higher death rate is possibly related to the faster roads in Thailand compared to Vietnam and Cambodia, certainly the way that Thai motorcycle riders act (and the care they take) is similar to that I saw in Cambodia. in Taiwan helmets are universally used and in Taipei motorcycles are often segregated from other traffic. I have been to Vietnam and there are many more motorcycles there but I never saw anybody riding a motorcycle without a helmet because I believe the penalties for not wearing one are very high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sometimewoodworker Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 On 04/01/2018 at 1:33 PM, Airbagwill said: In Taiwan thy have good roads an efficient traffic police and admin, and an extremely high vehicle ownership figure (over90%) Humm well 578+230=808 not 900 and that is assuming that no car driver has a motorcycle an extremely unlikely situation. Though I agree about the good roads though not the traffic police as a 5 lane road can often go down to 1 or no clear lanes with double parked cars, a couple of lanes blocked by drivers stopping to go shopping and a bus or two picking up in lane 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artisi Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 8 hours ago, Russell17au said: another incorrect post by you. The facts are that if you read this thread properly it is about the 7 day New Year holiday road toll. The time frame for this thread is from midnight 27 December to midnight 3 January and the road toll for that period only. So I will explain to you how it works. Any accident that happens inside that time frame is recorded, any injuries that occur in that time frame are also recorded and any deaths that occur from injuries in that time frame are recorded as long as the person dies before the midnight 3 January cut off is also recorded for that 7 day period. Any deaths that occur after midnight of 3 January are not recorded for the 7 day New Year holiday period. Your post has nothing to do with the 7 day holiday period, it is about the yearly national road toll which this thread is not about. You should really read the threads and see what they are about and get the facts right before making incorrect postings and then turning to flaming or insults because people show that you are incorrect Please, please don't contradict the self-proclaimed expert on traffic accidents, the reasons, the causes, and the rectification as you will leave yourself open to all sorts of pseudo academic arguement, big words and otherwise useless clap-trap that completely misses the point. Usually well put together ensuring little or no comment of any substance or value to the discussion is offered that could lead to any challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KhunMhee Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Artisi said: Please, please don't contradict the self-proclaimed expert on traffic accidents, the reasons, the causes, and the rectification as you will leave yourself open to all sorts of pseudo academic arguement, big words and otherwise useless clap-trap that completely misses the point. Usually well put together ensuring little or no comment of any substance or value to the discussion is offered that could lead to any challenge. Haha you forgot no links to information that supports said ideas! And the calling of all statistics rubbish! Edited January 5, 2018 by KhunMhee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artisi Posted January 5, 2018 Share Posted January 5, 2018 1 hour ago, KhunMhee said: Haha you forgot no links to information that supports said ideas! And the calling of all statistics rubbish! Yep, pseudo academic non supported clap-trap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Posted January 6, 2018 Share Posted January 6, 2018 Keep the discussion civil and on topic. Gratuitous, troll replies are not appreciated and will not be tolerated. You have been warned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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