Minimum wage could be increased by more than Bt15 a day

[473geo]

Robotic warehouse picking is already in place, not too much of a stretch to move into other areas.

The solution of using robots will come down to risk evaluation, hence currently there are still pilots present on planes.

[khunPer]

3 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

Hi Khun Per

 

If you are going to go the robot route with a side of Clarke and Huxley, you know that I'll be coming back with some Asimov and a full Roddenberry. 

 

A realistic robot Utopia can be a dangerous place when one considers making slaves out of robots for economic purposes. Forget not that Asimov's robots, even governed by the three laws of robotics, managed to override their programming. Fortunately, Giskard was a good-hearted sort (if I can use that expression) and decided that the zeroth law of robotics mandated that he protect humanity in general. Had he decided otherwise...

 

However, if you are going to speculate on the implications of robots and the labour force, I would offer a warning with the example of Norman from the original Star Trek series. His decision to offer his and his compatriots' service to humanity as a labour force in order to protect and guide us could have been disastrous! Their devious plan to control humanity may well have worked were it not for the brilliant application of illogic put forth by the crew of the Enterprise with the assistance of Harry Mudd.

 

To sum up, I think humanity needs to solve the issue of low-skilled labour and the concurrent issue of resource allocation to the same looooooong before we acquire the technology for the development of advanced robots.

 

The implications of developing viable robotics BEFORE we solve the issue of low wages doesn't bear thinking about.

 

Thanks for your thoughts and warnings.

 

One better warn the serious financial gurus and politicians that wish everything automated, and park the unnecessary labor force in social welfare, covered by other words like government salary and like. I'm afraid the "shape og things to come" are closer than we like to think of.

 

Robots in various levels are already here – as one poster mentioned in warehouses for order picking – and personally I don't fear the electronic and mechanical ones will take power over humanity. And the organic robots will probably, or perhaps I should rather say hopefully, be DNA-programmed with so simple tasks – remember that there's a huge difference between Alfa- or Beta-humans to Epsilon kind of spices – that they are safe to have freely among us.

 

We have already for years seen lots of industrial robots in manufacturing, or advanced kind of automation now-on-days called "industrial robots" – in the disc-manufacturing business I was familiar with, before moving to LoS, all basic staff in the manufacturing clean-area was already replaced by robots two decades ago; a factory could operate with unmanned night shifts – and we also got for example driverless trains, as the Copenhagen Metro, where even tickets offices are replaced with smartphone apps (to my knowledge from the news, not been back for several years, I might be due for a surprise later this year). Even the major Scandinavian bank announced a few month ago that they will reduce their workforce with 4,000 people, and instead replace the telephone support with robotic answering service; hopefully more like Apple's Siri than Clark's HAL 9000...

 

In my view, the issue of lower-skilled labor and higher minimum wages are kind of the cause for the robotic era – because it's too expensive to have people, just like the kind man or lady handing out cards in a Thai mall's parking entrance – because we consumers don't want to pay their high minimum wages, and a government's basic salary for doing nothing need to become a solution. However that's paid over a welfare redistributing tax system, taking from those who are skilled enough to still work and make a taxable income, together with companies paying taxes from the profit generated by their robotic workers on the manufacturing floor.

 

I'm afraid a solution like this might be (much) closer than we like to think of. It's however quite unclear for me – and that's why I'm afraid – if it's an improvement for the low skilled workers, and in general whatever lower staff that can be replaced, or it's a beginning of further separation between the richer and the poorer, even it may eliminate most, or all, real poverty in the countries with government basic salaries. Is this a route to generate a new two-class society, similar to old times' elite class and peasants..?

[Samui Bodoh]

9 hours ago, khunPer said:

Thanks for your thoughts and warnings.

 

One better warn the serious financial gurus and politicians that wish everything automated, and park the unnecessary labor force in social welfare, covered by other words like government salary and like. I'm afraid the "shape og things to come" are closer than we like to think of.

 

Robots in various levels are already here – as one poster mentioned in warehouses for order picking – and personally I don't fear the electronic and mechanical ones will take power over humanity. And the organic robots will probably, or perhaps I should rather say hopefully, be DNA-programmed with so simple tasks – remember that there's a huge difference between Alfa- or Beta-humans to Epsilon kind of spices – that they are safe to have freely among us.

 

We have already for years seen lots of industrial robots in manufacturing, or advanced kind of automation now-on-days called "industrial robots" – in the disc-manufacturing business I was familiar with, before moving to LoS, all basic staff in the manufacturing clean-area was already replaced by robots two decades ago; a factory could operate with unmanned night shifts – and we also got for example driverless trains, as the Copenhagen Metro, where even tickets offices are replaced with smartphone apps (to my knowledge from the news, not been back for several years, I might be due for a surprise later this year). Even the major Scandinavian bank announced a few month ago that they will reduce their workforce with 4,000 people, and instead replace the telephone support with robotic answering service; hopefully more like Apple's Siri than Clark's HAL 9000...

 

In my view, the issue of lower-skilled labor and higher minimum wages are kind of the cause for the robotic era – because it's too expensive to have people, just like the kind man or lady handing out cards in a Thai mall's parking entrance – because we consumers don't want to pay their high minimum wages, and a government's basic salary for doing nothing need to become a solution. However that's paid over a welfare redistributing tax system, taking from those who are skilled enough to still work and make a taxable income, together with companies paying taxes from the profit generated by their robotic workers on the manufacturing floor.

 

I'm afraid a solution like this might be (much) closer than we like to think of. It's however quite unclear for me – and that's why I'm afraid – if it's an improvement for the low skilled workers, and in general whatever lower staff that can be replaced, or it's a beginning of further separation between the richer and the poorer, even it may eliminate most, or all, real poverty in the countries with government basic salaries. Is this a route to generate a new two-class society, similar to old times' elite class and peasants..?

Interesting post as always. They say that the true test of another person's intelligence is how much they agree with you, so you must be very intelligent indeed! But, general agreement isn't complete agreement.

 

Your idea of the organic robots, the proverbial "Epsilons" of fiction, requires mucking about with humanity too much; I put my faith in people to prevent that. We have seen attempts to begin that journey, but I believe that there is a critical mass against the idea; see anti-GMO protesters, Right to Life(rs,) anti eugenics groups of the 19th century, etc. 

 

I agree that we are already on the path to robotization, but I am a 'humanist' who still retains faith in humanity to muddle through. One possibility is to do away with the concept of money. Yes, it sounds unlikely as humanity has been chasing the idea of personal wealth for millennia, but what if that was no longer the way of 'keeping score' or allocating resources? Returning to our previous use of Science Fiction, I refer you to the idea from Star Trek that money doesn't exists anymore in the Federation and the pursuit of wealth has been replaced by a philosophy of "improving oneself'. I don't think that will occur immediately or even soon, but the issue of what to do with low/no skills workers will have to be dealt with sooner or later.

 

We live in a very interesting era. I suspect that when historians look back at the time from... about 1990 to 2040(?), ie, the onset of the computer/Internet/digitization/robotics era, it is going to be one of the most studied times ever, assuming that we make it to the other side.

 

Cheers

 

PS this is why I love to discuss politics/governance. The seemingly simple idea of raising a minimum wage has terrific, long-term implications that are difficult to see, much account for. 

[Anak Nakal]

On 1/6/2018 at 2:36 PM, Coconutman said:

Now thais can invest in retirement 

Not funny making fun of poor people!

[Coconutman]

6 hours ago, Anak Nakal said:

Not funny making fun of poor people!

Im not making fun of poor people... anotjer article today the government suggested  people save money.. 15 baht a day is a joke