Copper Brake lines? Anyone tried them?

[impulse]

Had a hydraulic leak on my clutch system and took the whole mess out and shopped it for replacements.  All went well (master x slave cylinders and flex hose to the slave).  But then they tried to sell me a length of copper tube for the hard line.  As I recall from my grease monkey days (and I am a mechanical engineer), hydraulic lines are steel, with special double flared ends.  Copper doesn't have the burst pressure that steel line has, and double flaring is not something to be left to rubes like myself.   After I bought the cylinders at the first stop, all I showed the next 4 shops were the steel and the flex lines, so they wouldn't have known they were for the clutch and not the brakes.  All 4 offered me a shot of copper cut from a coil.

 

Back home, they'd go to the back room and find a pre-cut, pre-double flared piece of steel line of the correct length.  If it was a common type, they'd even have it pre-bent.  But never copper.

 

Has something changed in that arena since I was a grease monkey, or have I just discovered for myself why there are so many accidents due to brake failure here in Thailand? 

 

[Rdrokit]

If it's copper-nickel tubing it is OK.

Edited January 15, 2018 by Rdrokit

[transam]

Those were the days.....Copper no rust days....Fond memories....

[Woodsie888]

Copper is illegal in many Countries, but still commonly used in the UK.

When I was doing my trade it was common practice to make complete lines from a coil of tube and do all the double flaring etc ourselves. There was a huge amount of pride involved in making sure they were nicely bent and mounted.

[impulse]

So, here's what I've learned:  Copper is making a comeback for brake and clutch lines.  Steel replaced copper for decades because of the cost, but copper has much better corrosion resistance and the strength is adequate for crap copper and excellent for nickel copper. 

 

https://www.copper.org/applications/automotive/brake-tube/brake.html

 

I don't know what grade of copper is for sale in Thailand since the copper comes in unmarked spools that look suspiciously like air conditioning tubing.

 

Of the 10 shops I visited to buy the line, none of them could do a double flare.  They all offered a single flare, and didn't even have the tool to do a double flare.  So after walking out of 9 shops empty handed, I ordered a double flare tool from Lazada (2 in fact, in case one is crap).  Then I went to one more shop and bought a steel line and had them do their single flare on each end.  I installed it just to move the vehicle to a shady parking spot and wait for my tools to arrive to redo their work.

 

I also had to reuse the old flex hose that goes to the slave cylinder when the new one's threads stripped out using a 4" long 10mm wrench.  Oh well.

 

Good news, tons of YouTubes out there to show how a double flare is made.  I hope there are some in Thai, but given the scarcity of the tools (none of the 12 or so shops I visited in Chinatown carried them- and I only found 3 vendors on Lazada.  If I could wait, I'd have saved 50-75% ordering from AliExpress where they're around $25 for the kit).

 

 

[canthai55]

Nickel copper tubing availability in LOS - my guess - No. Use soft copper at your peril

[impulse]

18 hours ago, canthai55 said:

Nickel copper tubing availability in LOS - my guess - No. Use soft copper at your peril

 

If they're using crap copper and single flared connections, it doesn't surprise me that a lot of accidents are caused by brake failures.

 

I still have to do the permanent repair when my double flaring kit arrives and I'll post back if I learn more about the grade of copper they're peddling. (Or if I find any shops doing double flares)