Evaporative Coolers ?

[Naam]

44 minutes ago, VocalNeal said:

Cooling towers don't use chillers

most watercooled big chillers are used with cooling towers to assist refrigerant hot gas condensing.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Naam

[skippybangkok]

most watercooled big chillers are used with cooling towers to assist refrigerant hot gas condensing.

Yup


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[maxpower]

4 hours ago, VocalNeal said:

 

Cooling towers don't use chillers. At least not the one's I've seen. I bought some once for an oxygen plant, the specs said in that part of Thailand the lowest design temperature is 27C.

But don't let me distract you from you view point that cooling towers use chillers. ( worked on chillers as well. Steam powered absorption chillers to chill water)

 

 

To say cooling towers don't use chillers is creating argument for those who visualize it all as one cooling package, but technically cooling towers do not need a chiller to function. A modified process with reduced heat generation could quite easily have its chiller removed leaving only the cooling tower to handle heat dump.

 

Many heat transfer applications use cooling towers without a chiller others place a chiller between heat source and cooling tower depending on conditions LWT etc.

 

Good example for use of stand alone wet cooling tower with evaporation would be a power station condenser.

On the subject of evaporation cooling, Thailands humidity is not going to help.
 

[VocalNeal]

2 hours ago, maxpower said:

To say cooling towers don't use chillers is creating argument for those who visualize it all as one cooling package,

I didn't start the "argument". 

 

2 hours ago, maxpower said:

On the subject of evaporation cooling, Thailands humidity is not going to help.

 That's why you can't get much lower than 27C

 

2 hours ago, maxpower said:

but technically cooling towers do not need a chiller to function.

Well at least that is correct. 

 

2 hours ago, maxpower said:

Many heat transfer applications use cooling towers without a chiller others place a chiller between heat source and cooling tower depending on conditions LWT etc.

Why? Heat transfer is greatest when the temp. differential is greatest. 

 

2 hours ago, maxpower said:

Good example for use of stand alone wet cooling tower with evaporation would be a power station condenser.

Or an oxygen plants or central AC a shopping mall or...

 

My original post was a hypothesis . Can't be retrofitted so would have to be done on a new build. Whether keeping the structure at 27C helps or not is a different discussion. Guys heat their pools with some black plastic hose on a roof so I don't see how cooling the structure using a small cooling tower is any different. Unconventional maybe but...

[VocalNeal]

6 hours ago, Naam said:

most watercooled big chillers are used with cooling towers to assist refrigerant hot gas condensing.

Exactly the cooling towers are used to remove heat just a small one would from a house . 

 

If I go back to my original statement that "cooling tower don't use chillers" but we got sidetracked by someone saying "cooling towers are linked to chillers" when if fact they can operate independently.

 

Again whether cooling the entire structure to 27C helps I will have to see. Certainly won't remove any humidity? But moving the air at 27 around may make it more comfortable? Said cooling tower only has a 125 watt fan so hardly a lot to run.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited February 1, 2018 by VocalNeal

[Naam]

1 hour ago, VocalNeal said:

Again whether cooling the entire structure to 27C helps I will have to see. Certainly won't remove any humidity? But moving the air at 27 around may make it more comfortable? Said cooling tower only has a 125 watt fan so hardly a lot to run.

you cannot cool down inside air below the ambient temperature. the lowest you can achieve is ambient dry bulb temperature. in other words... if the inside temperature of your home is 29ºC and the outside temperature is lower the cooling tower works. but that you can achieve by simply using one or more exhaust fans drawing cooler air into the home.

 

the ancient cooling tower system (the first ones were built in Persia and nowadays Iraq) worked perfectly because of the very low ambient humidity, id est actual evaporation cooling was applied. we lived for some time in Baghdad where relative humidity levels were often down to 10% which enabled an evaporation system to cool a rather big 2-story home without any problems.

 

unfortunately the average humidity in Thailand -even far from the coastline- is too high for these systems to work.    

 

[maxpower]

3 hours ago, maxpower said:

Many heat transfer applications use cooling towers without a chiller others place a chiller between heat source and cooling tower depending on conditions LWT etc.

 

1 hour ago, VocalNeal said:

Why? Heat transfer is greatest when the temp. differential is greatest. 

I don't think you understand the statement.  Its says, some applications do not require a chiller. I will provide a simple diagram if required. But if you decided to call the cooling tower a chiller then we have lost direction.

 

If you are in BKK i can invite you to our data center and explain cooling stages including one which uses a simple dry tower without chiller.    

 

By the way, I was actually trying to support your argument but never mind.

[Artisi]

3 hours ago, Naam said:

you cannot cool down inside air below the ambient temperature. the lowest you can achieve is ambient dry bulb temperature. in other words... if the inside temperature of your home is 29ºC and the outside temperature is lower the cooling tower works. but that you can achieve by simply using one or more exhaust fans drawing cooler air into the home.

 

the ancient cooling tower system (the first ones were built in Persia and nowadays Iraq) worked perfectly because of the very low ambient humidity, id est actual evaporation cooling was applied. we lived for some time in Baghdad where relative humidity levels were often down to 10% which enabled an evaporation system to cool a rather big 2-story home without any problems.

 

unfortunately the average humidity in Thailand -even far from the coastline- is too high for these systems to work.    

 

Correct, not really suited to Thailand, although being pushed hard to sell in the bigger stores when they run nicely pushing out pre air-conditioned air.

As said in an earlier post, I brought one without a full investigation and of course disappointed in the performance, however I find is does feel a little better  when compared to a normal free-standing fan while within close proximity. As for cooling a house - never. 

[VocalNeal]

16 hours ago, maxpower said:

I will provide a simple diagram if required. But if you decided to call the cooling tower a chiller then we have lost direction.

I will have read my post again to see where I indicated that a cooling tower is a chiller. They are  completely different. Although both use or may use evaporation as there primary means of cooling. 

 

Thanks for the support and the invitation but I know what a cooling tower is having been involved with the selection, purchasing and commission of a few.

 

16 hours ago, Naam said:

you cannot cool down inside air below the ambient temperature.

But, although not very well in Thailand, you can cool outside air down a tad using those evaporative misters. 

 

We all seem to be diverging so I will get my anorak!

[VocalNeal]

19 hours ago, maxpower said:

If you are in BKK i can invite you to our data center

Happy to come and have a look at different industries. I sent you a PM.

[skippybangkok]

Update:

Installed a 9k BTU in the office room / small bedroom on ground floor and out it in dehumidifier mode and blow the dry air out into the big living room(s) ( about 75m2)

Humidity drops from about 79% down to 65%


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