425,000 baht for a scooter....no really.

[eisfeld]

AllanB: there are more situations than a dog running into the street. And you don't always have to choose the speed option. You choose what is appropriate for the given situation. Having more options at disposal is a good thing.

[pbas400]

for 2017, french market

X ADV is number 8 ..... with 1941 sales http://www.lerepairedesmotards.com/actualites/2018/top-50-ventes-motos-scooters.php

Edited February 7, 2018 by pbas400

[tomaway]

Yep and in Italie they sold more Xadv than Tmax in January....

Sent from my SM-G955F using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[pbas400]

on this topic, i dont understand why people talk about PCX, are they cheap charlies ? 

[DefaultName]

3 hours ago, AllanB said:

That is a pretty naive view, to think you can dodge a dog (or dogs) with sheer power. 

 

I have encountered a number of dogs that can't make up their minds and the only safe thing to do is to slow and even stop. If you enjoy the buzz of Russian roulette, go for it not me.

 

Then there are the dogs at the side of the road, that just decide to take off across the road, if you are into speed you chances of a close encounter are much greater.

 

The one exception is if you ride a dirt bike as I do, I haven't decided how larger dog I could hit, make it over and stay on. Be interested to see a TV survey. 

 

I have decided I can't hit a cow and stay on.....but my riding skills are only average.

Read again please.  I said that power ISN'T  an option on a smaller bike.

[JonnyF]

11 hours ago, AllanB said:

That is a pretty naive view, to think you can dodge a dog (or dogs) with sheer power. 

 

I have encountered a number of dogs that can't make up their minds and the only safe thing to do is to slow and even stop. If you enjoy the buzz of Russian roulette, go for it not me.

 

Then there are the dogs at the side of the road, that just decide to take off across the road, if you are into speed you chances of a close encounter are much greater.

 

The one exception is if you ride a dirt bike as I do, I haven't decided how larger dog I could hit, make it over and stay on. Be interested to see a TV survey. 

 

I have decided I can't hit a cow and stay on.....but my riding skills are only average.

Just one example. For dogs you might slow down. What about a truck sat on your tail on a narrow road when the bike is maxed out? I rode 400 kms in Cambodia recently (Phnom Penh to Sihanoukville and back) on a Honda Wave, and getting tailgated by buses as I pinned the throttle on that POS going uphill was no fun at all. Downright dangerous. Had I been on my MT09 I would have accelerated away and kept him at a safe distance behind me. The hard shoulder was potholed dirt so pulling over wasn't an option, slowing down meant trusting the bus driver to see me and avoid me. When they did pass, I could have touched them with my elbow if I wanted they were that close. 

 

Not to mention spending 20 minutes sucking fumes behind slow moving stuff that I didn't have the power to overtake because I'd have been on the wrong side of the road for a minute, creeping past him.

 

Fast bikes can go slow, but slow bikes can't go fast. Believe me, that journey would have been MUCH safer on a big bike. 

 

 

[jackdd]

4 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

I rode 400 kms in Cambodia recently (Phnom Penh to Sihanoukville and back) on a Honda Wave, and getting tailgated by buses as I pinned the throttle on that POS going uphill was no fun at all. Downright dangerous.

What's the top speed of a Wave? Some other posters were claiming how useless a PCX is. Here we have an example on how useful the extra cc of the PCX can be. I rode mine thousands of kilometers outside of cities and i have never been tailgated by a bus or big truck, because i'm just faster than they are.

[JonnyF]

4 minutes ago, jackdd said:

What's the top speed of a Wave? Some other posters were claiming how useless a PCX is. Here we have an example on how useful the extra cc of the PCX can be. I rode mine thousands of kilometers outside of cities and i have never been tailgated by a bus or big truck, because i'm just faster than they are.

Yep a PCX is faster than a Wave. 

 

Won't help you if Somchai in his pickup truck is up your ass. Unless your PCX goes about 200 kph.

[jackdd]

2 minutes ago, JonnyF said:

Won't help you if Somchai in his pickup truck is up your ass. Unless your PCX goes about 200 kph.

Yes, sure. But in this case nothing helps, because driving 200kph on a motorbike on an unknown road in Asia is nothing anybody should do, then you just have to stop and let him pass

[JonnyF]

Just now, jackdd said:

Yes, sure. But in this case nothing helps, because driving 200kph on a motorbike on an unknown road in Asia is nothing anybody should do, then you just have to stop and let him pass

Not always an option though is it? In my case you had to slow down to about 30 kph to move onto the hard shoulder as it was potholed dirt, with a bus about a metre behind me, not fun and not safe. Besides, I don't enjoy rides where I'm getting bullied onto the hard shoulder because I'm on a scooter. I'd rather accelerate away and continue my journey. 

 

I did Chiang Mai to Pai in December on an MT09 with my gf on the back. It was cold and wet. I can't imagine how painful that would have been on any scooter trying to get past all those slow moving trucks belching smoke. Or trying to keep speed up on the slow uphill corners (with no gears) because some idiot in an Isuzu is right behind me. Relying entirely on the brakes (because I have no gears or engine braking) on the way back down. With the MT09 in power mode B, traction control set on the max level, 120 front and 180 rear Bridgestone tyres with ABS as a backup it was a really enjoyable, stress free ride.

 

Overtaking is safer on a big bike. Braking is safer on a big bike. Riding over 100kph is safer on a big bike. They are more stable in wind, more stable over bumps and rough roads, have bigger wheels, they command more respect from other road users. There is really no argument for scooters being safer than big bikes unless you lack self control or riding experience.

 

[tomaway]

Driving every day a maxi scooter, I can say that more power is giving me more option as said previously.

 

No matter wave/PCX/Nmax, it is all the same, they are good but small and slow....

 

When you are on a Tmax or Xadv (I guess) you can cruise with passenger at 120/130kmh easily and go as fast as 180 without any worries. The Tmax at that speed is still like on a rail.

 

I went many times from Phuket to Samui and it is always a pleasure not having to worry about power, comfort or whatever.

 

Anyway, I guess it was the same when SUV came out on the market, people driving sports car or doing offroad were sick but now.... I'll drive a Macan anyday in Thailand :D

[pbas400]

no need to compare PCX / Wave with TMAX or XADV

 

it s same if you compare coca cola with Petrus 

[eisfeld]

2 hours ago, JonnyF said:

they command more respect from other road users

The other points you made were all very good but this one is a much overlooked factor that alone can make a big difference to rider safety. With a small scooter, you get bullied and pushed around like you are not even there. On a bigger bike, people tend to leave you alone a bit more. Oh and you are more visible (+audible?) too. In Thailand unfortunately it is all too often "might makes right", the bigger vehicle wins.

[canthai55]

Sure easy to tell by the replies has ridden bikes more than 5 minutes

Sent from my [device_name] using http://Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

[VocalNeal]

5 hours ago, jackdd said:

What's the top speed of a Wave?

I faintly remember I got 115 kph one time. In Indonesia and not stock.

[papa al]

Never hit a cow,

but a smaller dog is no biggie...

...hardly feel them,

just the pitiful yelping.

[AllanB]

10 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Just one example. For dogs you might slow down. What about a truck sat on your tail on a narrow road when the bike is maxed out? I rode 400 kms in Cambodia recently (Phnom Penh to Sihanoukville and back) on a Honda Wave, and getting tailgated by buses as I pinned the throttle on that POS going uphill was no fun at all. Downright dangerous. Had I been on my MT09 I would have accelerated away and kept him at a safe distance behind me. The hard shoulder was potholed dirt so pulling over wasn't an option, slowing down meant trusting the bus driver to see me and avoid me. When they did pass, I could have touched them with my elbow if I wanted they were that close. 

 

Not to mention spending 20 minutes sucking fumes behind slow moving stuff that I didn't have the power to overtake because I'd have been on the wrong side of the road for a minute, creeping past him.

 

Fast bikes can go slow, but slow bikes can't go fast. Believe me, that journey would have been MUCH safer on a big bike. 

 

 

"Approaching dogs on a narrow road at break neck speed with a big truck up your jacksie", is a possible scenario, but about as likely as Donald Trump being the driver of said truck.

 

Me, I would pull over to the side of the road and let Trumpy run over all the dogs and smooth the way.

 

But, if you are on a big BMW with the obligatory galvanised dustbins on the back making you as wide as a car, that may not be possible. Just join the dog pie and let Trump get a strike.

[AllanB]

9 hours ago, JonnyF said:

Not always an option though is it? In my case you had to slow down to about 30 kph to move onto the hard shoulder as it was potholed dirt, with a bus about a metre behind me, not fun and not safe. Besides, I don't enjoy rides where I'm getting bullied onto the hard shoulder because I'm on a scooter. I'd rather accelerate away and continue my journey. 

 

I did Chiang Mai to Pai in December on an MT09 with my gf on the back. It was cold and wet. I can't imagine how painful that would have been on any scooter trying to get past all those slow moving trucks belching smoke. Or trying to keep speed up on the slow uphill corners (with no gears) because some idiot in an Isuzu is right behind me. Relying entirely on the brakes (because I have no gears or engine braking) on the way back down. With the MT09 in power mode B, traction control set on the max level, 120 front and 180 rear Bridgestone tyres with ABS as a backup it was a really enjoyable, stress free ride.

 

Overtaking is safer on a big bike. Braking is safer on a big bike. Riding over 100kph is safer on a big bike. They are more stable in wind, more stable over bumps and rough roads, have bigger wheels, they command more respect from other road users. There is really no argument for scooters being safer than big bikes unless you lack self control or riding experience.

 

We did the MHS loop 2 up twice, once on a CRF 250 and a year earlier on a Yamaha Filano 125, both flew past all the slow moving trucks effortlessly. The smoky ones are always way down on power that anything can pass them.

 

I would agree that riding over 100kph is safer on a big bike, not much opportunity on the that bit of the loop though. I would like to try it on my Shadow next time, a lot more fun, 1 or 2 up.

 

You should do the whole loop the next time on that bike Jonny, 3 very different phases. You can really get the welly down on the final MHP to CHM and mostly smooth interesting roads now.

 

Rain? Ouch!