When Farangs Go Native

[MaeJoMTB]

7 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

but to consider what impact it might have on your half-Thai child. There have been other threads on TVF where posters have spoken about trying to eradicate their wife's Thai identity and completely Westernize her.

Nothing wrong with either of these two points.

Hopefully both my Thai children will learn to look down on Thai culture, there's nothing worthwhile in it.

And my wife totally agrees, she dislikes everything about Thailand apart from the food.

[overherebc]

12 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

I feel like this comment was directed at me. My comments to you about what cultural and racial messages you might be sending to your new born son by being disinterested in communicating with locals, were offered not to criticize or judge but to help you consider what impact it might have on your half-Thai child. There have been other threads on TVF where posters have spoken about trying to eradicate their wife's Thai identity and completely Westernize her. Having grown up in a multi-cultural household, I know how damaging this can be, and my comments were voiced out of genuine concern. If you don't appreciate what I had to say, perhaps someone else in a similar situation might. So if my comments were received as criticism I apologize, as this was not my intent at all.

 

As I have said before, I could care less whether you or anybody else learns Thai. My attitude is 'your loss, not mine.' In answer to your comment about being 'stuck here' when I ought to be out having scintillating conversations with Thais, I work at my computer, oftentimes studying Thai, but also French, and TVF is a break from this work, although I admit it can become a distraction.

 

To be honest, I think this thread has become toxic because there is one faction with a wide range of different reasons for not learning Thai pitted against another faction who are trying to promote the value of learning Thai for an equally wide range of reasons, and all it's become is trading putdowns and snide remarks which have little educational or entertainment value.

Toxic being the result of a chemical process and toxin being a naturally produced substance such as the poison in mushrooms is toxic the correct word to use? People who study them maybe a toxicologist or a toxinologist.

I'm not 100% sure and I'm prepared to be corrected.

[wildewillie89]

1 hour ago, Gecko123 said:

I feel like this comment was directed at me. My comments to you about what cultural and racial messages you might be sending to your new born son by being disinterested in communicating with locals, and were made offered to criticize or judge but to consider what impact it might have on your half-Thai child. There have been other threads on TVF where posters have spoken about trying to eradicate their wife's Thai identity and completely Westernize her. Having grown up in a multi-cultural household, I know how damaging this can be, and my comments were voiced out of genuine concern. If you don't appreciate what I had to say, perhaps someone else in a similar situation might. So if my comments were received as criticism I apologize, as this was not my intent at all.

 

As I have said before, I could care less whether you or anybody else learns Thai. My attitude is 'your loss, not mine.' In answer to your comment about being 'stuck here' when I ought to be out having scintillating conversations with Thais, I work at my computer, oftentimes studying Thai, but also French, and TVF is a break from this work, although I admit it can become a distraction.

 

To be honest, I think this thread has become toxic because there is one faction with a wide range of different reasons for not learning Thai pitted against another faction who are trying to promote the value of learning Thai for an equally wide range of reasons, and all it's become is trading putdowns and snide remarks which have little educational or entertainment value.

The comment was posted in general, it was not directed at any specific member.

That is the problem when discussing personal circumstances, opinions are based on a lack of understanding of one's personal life - it is why most people usually consider things like that off limits. For instance, how am I disinterested in communicating with the locals that it will lead to a negative impact on my children? Purely as I don't feel the need to spend years formally learning a language to get any satisfaction from it? I participate in more village projects than even the most 'native' farang as my father-in-law is the Mayor. I used to even sell used clothes at the market with some of the villagers in the evenings before our children were born for a bit of fun. I have a plan to also gain special permission to volunteer at a juvenile prison that will be built in our area. My face is currently all around town and last year was on the TV to promote the province (personally asked to by the Governor). Not to promote myself, but to benefit the people I am apparently disinterested with. There are many ways people are communicating with the community other than language. If Thai speakers weren't seeking so much admiration and didn't have such a strong sense of self-importance they would understand this. 

Like I said earlier, I am sure my children will one day understand why I chose to spend the time developing them rather than drowning them in further study after school just so I can develop myself. As previously threads with children have said, only speak English at home, as Thai is all around them. 

My wife is Thai, we sit down and discuss the best way forward for our children. That doesn't mean I am Westernising her, that just means we are looking at the two ways of doing things and seeing which one is best based on reasoning. She is one of few Thai who has had a good education so has critical thinking skills. Maybe a compromise will be reached, maybe the Thai way is better, maybe the Western way is better, that is what discussion is for. For example, when our baby was born, it was decided we will use car seats rather than hold the child. Even though two car seats now means that if sister-in-law and nephew want to go out for ice-cream that a second car is needed. There is a difference between reasoned discussions to do what is best for a child and 'Westernising'. That is where it is best to find out a little bit more before just throwing ideas about to suit an original argument of why someone should learn Thai.

On a side note about interacting with locals, I have just learnt of a farang who lives in our village who I never knew about. He apparently speaks Thai according to his neighbours but no one has ever seen him. My dogs have been welcomed into the village more than him (villagers know their names) so this idea that some members put forward that language forces someone to be a recluse is just silly.  

I was at Tesco with the Mrs and our daughter yesterday. A sales girl asked an older farang a question to which he replied 'hello' to be polite. She made fun of his lack of language. The shoppers around us gossiped about her unnecessarily mean comments and walked away. Judging from this forum, it seems Thai speakers would have made fun of him also. At the end of the day, he walked away with the locals support.

Non-Thai speakers have no problems with Thai speakers. They are not jealous, they are not intimidated. If they are then that is a serious hang up that individual has. What non-Thai speakers are tired of is the constant BS attached with Thai speakers. We don't want our day to be stopped just because a Thai speaker is feeling a little bit insecure about his life achievement and needs a pat on the back. We are adults. If a scenario comes up where someone should be congratulated we will congratulate them.  Some people feel a need to learn the language, fantastic. Some people do not, fantastic. People should not have to explain themselves for that just because a complete stranger on a forum has a problem with their own lives. 

Edited February 12, 2018 by wildewillie89

[MaeJoMTB]

1 hour ago, wildewillie89 said:

My wife is Thai, we sit down and discuss the best way forward for our children. That doesn't mean I am Westernising her, that just means we are looking at the two ways of doing things and seeing which one is best based on reasoning. She is one of few Thai who has had a good education so has critical thinking skills.

If either person thought the Thai way of doing anything was the best way, that person would be mentally ill.

Edited February 12, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[JLCrab]

How not to have a problem with your own life:

[Neeranam]

1 hour ago, wildewillie89 said:

. She is one of few Thai who has had a good education so has critical thinking skills. Maybe a compromise will be reached, maybe the Thai way is better, maybe the Western way is better, that is what discussion is for. For example, when our baby was born, it was decided we will use car seats rather than hold the child.

Classic!

Is she Thai Chinese?

Good for you, you've managed to get one of the few educated Thais yet I live in a village!

 

I know many Thais who use car seats for babies. I think you've been in the village too long. 

 

I'm confused as to whether you've gone natives or not. Personally invited by the governor to be on TV?

 

Which province is this?

 

[thaibeachlovers]

22 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Many (if not most) elderly men around the world are happy, at home, on their own.

I have no need for people skills, internet action is about it, 'cos I can turn away at any time.

 

(Actually, I wish I were alone, my son is killing aliens on his tablet and it's very noisy, 2 of my wifes uni class are with me doing their own thing on laptops, wife and another student chatting at the table outside, teen on facebook in her room)

You need a mancave. Coming from the UK as you apparently do I'm surprised you haven't constructed a shed at bottom of garden to hide in from the wimmin.

First thing I did on moving to the village was to seize a room for myself.

[Neeranam]

50 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

If either person thought the Thai way of doing anything was the best way, that person would be mentally ill.

Why do you lived in Thailand if you and your wife hate it so much?

[thaibeachlovers]

Just now, Neeranam said:

Why do you lived in Thailand if you and your wife hate it so much?

If one were to ask me that question, my answer is that no matter what I think of LOS it's better than where I came from.

[MaeJoMTB]

5 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Why do you lived in Thailand if you and your wife hate it so much?

Warm weather, and the wife and the teen haven't finished university yet.

It's a bit sad for the teen as she isn't actually related to either of us and will be left in Thailand.

And no home in the UK, wife has nice house near Chiang Mai, decent rice farm + farmhouse in Petchabun, and a chunk of forest in Nan.

Edited February 12, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[thaibeachlovers]

49 minutes ago, JLCrab said:

How not to have a problem with your own life:

Hmmm. That wouldn't work for me, given that one of my really big no nos ( learned at great personal cost ) is not to work for people I know. I don't think I kiss ass well enough to work for my wife's boss.

[Neeranam]

2 hours ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Hopefully both my Thai children will learn to look down on Thai culture, there's nothing worthwhile in it.

Let's get this straight. You want your Thai kids to look down on Thai culture. 

[Neeranam]

3 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Warm weather, and the wife and the teen haven't finished university yet.

It's a bit sad for the teen as she isn't actually related to either of us and will be left in Thailand.

So you don't have any kids?

[MaeJoMTB]

2 minutes ago, Neeranam said:

Let's get this straight. You want your Thai kids to look down on Thai culture. 

Let's get this straight, you think Thai culture has something worthwhile in it?

For example, the popular military government, the incorruptible police force, the zero tolerance cheating in the education system? 

[thaibeachlovers]

3 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Warm weather, and the wife and the teen haven't finished university yet.

It's a bit sad for the teen as she isn't actually related to either of us and will be left in Thailand.

And no home in the UK, wife has nice house near Chiang Mai, decent rice farm + farmhouse in Petchabun, and a chunk of forest in Nan.

I sympathise with her as I was abandoned by those that should have looked after me.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, Neeranam said:

So you don't have any kids?

Why would he want any?

[MaeJoMTB]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I sympathise with her as I was abandoned by those that should have looked after me.

The teen was abandoned at age 11 ..... which is when I took her in.

(Something else popular in Thai culture, abandoning your children or selling them into prostitution)

Our 6 year old son has a British passport and birth certificate.

Edited February 12, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[Gecko123]

2 hours ago, wildewillie89 said:

Non-Thai speakers have no problems with Thai speakers. They are not jealous, they are not intimidated. If they are then that is a serious hang up that individual has. What non-Thai speakers are tired of is the constant BS attached with Thai speakers. We don't want our day to be stopped just because a Thai speaker is feeling a little bit insecure about his life achievement and needs a pat on the back. We are adults. If a scenario comes up where someone should be congratulated we will congratulate them.  Some people feel a need to learn the language, fantastic. Some people do not, fantastic. People should not have to explain themselves for that just because a complete stranger on a forum has a problem with their own lives. 

Hey Wild Willie!!!

I wrote you a pretty concillatory post and you dish this crap out in response??? Yikes!!!

 

Your grievances strike me as over-worked and a tad bit melodramatic. You make it sound like foreigners are surrounding your house with bullhorns demanding to know why you haven't yet learned Thai, or you can't take your dog for a walk without being harried by some foreigner demanding a pat on the head for his language skills. Nobody does that in real life and you know it.

 

You, and the rest of the 'Thai's a Waste of Time' brigade are every bit as responsible for starting this bickering as anyone. You preach live and let live and then proceed to antagonize people with condescending putdowns, and comments like "Thais don't have anything important to say, so why bother learning the language," (which in case the irony is lost on anyone, a non-Thai speaker is hardly in the position to have an informed opinion about.)

 

By the way, if your patience has worn so thin and you're so exasperated by all these language loving foreigners, why are you a fixture on this thread? I mean, it's not rocket science to anticipate that the subject of language skills might come up on a thread entitled "When farangs go native," now is it?

Edited February 12, 2018 by Gecko123

[thaibeachlovers]

1 hour ago, wildewillie89 said:

I have just learnt of a farang who lives in our village who I never knew about. He apparently speaks Thai according to his neighbours but no one has ever seen him.

Sounds like a guy that lives the way he wants to and not as other people think he should.

The whole ''if you live in a village you have to be involved with the locals" thing is vastly overrated IMO.

I tried it and were it not for the rat bag nephews I might still be there, but I'd be like him if I was.

[MaeJoMTB]

19 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

You preach live and let live and then proceed to antagonize people with condescending putdowns, and comments like "Thais don't have anything important to say, so why bother learning the language," which in case the irony is lost on anyone, a non-Thai speaker is hardly in the position to have an informed opinion about.

Sadly, I wasted the time to learn Thai (speaking, reading and writing) and am certainly in an informed position.

And my opinion is it was worthless, and I wish I had used that time to improve my Spanish or learn Chinese.

 

I've just endured an afternoon of my wife and her friend wittering on, they discussed lunch, banging their husbands (in great detail), mia noi of the friends husband has a new baby, now they're talking about dinner. The only interruption from me was when the misses got a bit too detailed, and I gave her a whack on the head. I have been watching Michael Palin's New Europe, much more interesting, along with cooking chicken soup and making Muesli energy/breakfast bars.

Edited February 12, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[Naam]

4 hours ago, MrPatrickThai said:

I'm sure the Burmese servants make an effort to speak Thai, so why not?

because our dogs don't understand Thai.

[Naam]

2 hours ago, wildewillie89 said:

Non-Thai speakers have no problems with Thai speakers. They are not jealous, they are not intimidated. If they are then that is a serious hang up that individual has. What non-Thai speakers are tired of is the constant BS attached with Thai speakers. We don't want our day to be stopped just because a Thai speaker is feeling a little bit insecure about his life achievement and needs a pat on the back. We are adults. If a scenario comes up where someone should be congratulated we will congratulate them.  Some people feel a need to learn the language, fantastic. Some people do not, fantastic. People should not have to explain themselves for that just because a complete stranger on a forum has a problem with their own lives. 

all said, nothing to add!

[Naam]

Quote

473geo said:

To be honest, reading this thread I get the impression Thai speaking Farang are best avoided.

if they can't be avoided they should be treated with a sound portion of due diligence

[wildewillie89]

51 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

Hey Wild Willie!!!

I wrote you a pretty concillatory post and you dish this crap out in response??? Yikes!!!

 

Your grievances strike me as over-worked and a tad bit melodramatic. You make it sound like foreigners are surrounding your house with bullhorns demanding to know why you haven't yet learned Thai, or you can't take your dog for a walk without being harried by some foreigner demanding a pat on the head for his language skills. Nobody does that in real life and you know it.

 

You, and the rest of the 'Thai's a Waste of Time' brigade are every bit as responsible for starting this bickering as anyone. You preach live and let live and then proceed to antagonize people with condescending putdowns, and comments like "Thais don't have anything important to say, so why bother learning the language," (which in case the irony is lost on anyone, a non-Thai speaker is hardly in the position to have an informed opinion about.)

 

By the way, if your patience has worn so thin and you're so exasperated by all these language loving foreigners, why are you a fixture on this thread? I mean, it's not rocket science to anticipate that the subject of language skills might come up on a thread entitled "When farangs go native," now is it?

I wasn't expecting you to take things so literally? Didn't even you say that Thai speakers are hungry for admiration because they aren't getting it from farang? I was agreeing with you lol. 

Ignore the points...just like all Thai speakers ignored the cashier wai issue when asked to provide credible sources so very long ago in this thread. If the theme of the thread is not further exploring points then it is a bit of a boring discussion (maybe similar to many Thai discussions - lacks critical thinking). But you are right, it was half interesting when I had nothing to do at work, but not so much anymore so I will leave it. 

If we are going with the I speak Thai so I am more credible than you stock answer then it is a pointless conversation. One only needs to look at the comprehension scores when comparing the country to the rest of the world to know how in depth the vast majority of conversations will be. One only needs to look at criticisms of the referendum questions. Didn't this Prawit watch scandal even get brought up by a Thai overseas who said his country lacks critical thinking. My baby doctor even warned me about it. But lets ignore them, lets ignore our educated Thai friends and stick with what the farang who so desperately seeks admiration says about how in depth conversations are. There is fluent and then there is fluent, which is why many bachelor educated Thai people cant even pass the Thai component of the government test. 

Again, well done on speaking Thai. It is a great skill you have acquired. It is a shame you cannot respect other people's decisions enough not to bring up some irrelevant family rubbish to try and back up your original point by hiding under a banner of 'I care'. If your ideas only extend this far then, yes, yikes. 

[JLCrab]

According to Wikipedia and The Cambridge Encyclopedia of the English Language (Second ed. 2003) 27% of the Thai population speaks English. If you feel that there is no need or reason for you to be able to speak with the 73% who don't, that is up to you.

Edited February 12, 2018 by JLCrab

[nausea]

All you need to know about going native:

 

'Ear all, see all, say nowt;
Eyt all, sup all, pay nowt;
And if ivver tha does owt fer nowt –
Allus do it fer thissen."

[johng]

All you need to know about going native:

Allus do it fer thissen."

Understand all before but that needs a translation.

[speedtripler]

1 hour ago, JLCrab said:

According to Wikipedia and The Cambridge Encyclopedia of the English Language (Second ed. 2003) 27% of the Thai population speaks English. If you feel that there is no need or reason for you to be able to speak with the 73% who don't, that is up to you.

27% is a stretch..... 

I doubt 27% are fluent although they might know a few words and sentences 

[Andrew Dwyer]

All you need to know about going native:
 
'Ear all, see all, say nowt;
Eyt all, sup all, pay nowt;
And if ivver tha does owt fer nowt –
Allus do it fer thissen."

Finally some wise words in a language I understand !!

[Naam]

57 minutes ago, nausea said:

All you need to know about going native:

 

'Ear all, see all, say nowt;
Eyt all, sup all, pay nowt;
And if ivver tha does owt fer nowt –
Allus do it fer thissen."

phoren langitsch wiolaits forum rules!