When Farangs Go Native

[MrPatrickThai]

17 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

How is Thailand our adopted country? I just stay here 90 days at a time, other people stay here 1 year at a time.

Says on my passport 'non-immigrant', why should I learn a language that only 30% of the Thai population speak as a 1st language.

I guess one could argue that I should learn my wife's language, but that language would be Lao, and nobody is offering courses in Lao.

 

Nonsense - 99% of Thai people can speak Thai.

 

If you live in Laos, then it would be a good idea to learn your  wife's language. Perhaps even in Isarn, it would be useful but not necessary.

[JLCrab]

2 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

They all speak the language of luvvvvvvvvvv .........

 

That is non-spoken language -- so is unzipping your trousers.

[MaeJoMTB]

4 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

Also, assuming your wife is Thai, and your son is part-Thai and you plan to live in Thailand for some length of time, how do you communicate with non-English members of your wife's family and social circle, and your son's non-English speaking school and play mates, teachers, etc.?

Why would anyone want to interact with their 'hired helps' relatives?

My 'hired help' does all the school interactions.

My son speaks English. 

[greatwhitenorth]

4 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

They all speak the language of luvvvvvvvvvv .........

 that's the only way this guy has got laid in the last 20 years.  only those are bills and he uses coins

[MaeJoMTB]

Just now, greatwhitenorth said:

 that's the only way this guy has got laid in the last 20 years.  only those are bills and he uses coins

That's the only way I've got laid in my entire life (I did get a couple of free ones when I was 19, but that was an anomaly).

Are you claiming you don't have to pay? (maybe you're not as choosy as me).

[MrPatrickThai]

15 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

your role as a father. What kind of example are you setting, if you show little interest in learning how to communicate with the non-English speaking people in your environment? What racial and class messages are you sending to your son when you set an example that communication with non-English speaking people isn't of interest to you?

Extremely dangerous psychologically if the son is half-Thai. Basically saying that half of his being is inferior. I've sadly seen negative consequences of this in my friends' grown up kids.

[MrPatrickThai]

21 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Why would anyone want to interact with their 'hired helps' relatives?

My 'hired help' does all the school interactions.

My son speaks English. 

Have you no inclination to go to his school and discuss teaching methodologies with his teachers?

 

[jak2002003]

On ‎03‎/‎02‎/‎2018 at 5:22 PM, thaibeachlovers said:

 

I lived in a village for a few months and never felt any desire to participate in conversations with them.

 

no Thais I've met have exhibited any demonstrable desire to have conversations with me,

 

the English teacher that couldn't speak English properly didn't want to come and practice with me.

 

Even when I lived in an English speaking country, few people were interested in the same things as I and those were my friends.

 

 

Hmmmm.... do you get the impression people generally don't want to talk or be around you?

 

 

[MaeJoMTB]

3 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

Hmmmm.... do you get the impression people generally don't want to talk or be around you?

TBL is an old guy like me, most of us don't require (or want) much company.

The only company I can endure these days, is other English men, and then only in short bursts.

[Gecko123]

26 minutes ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Extremely dangerous psychologically if the son is half-Thai. Basically saying that half of his being is inferior. I've sadly seen negative consequences of this in my friends' grown up kids.

Can't help but wonder what the Thai wife has to say about this linguistic chauvanism.

[jak2002003]

4 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

TBL is an old guy like me, most of us don't require (or want) much company.

The only company I can endure these days, is other English men, and then only in short bursts.

You like English men for company...

 

Some people get all the company they want from being on TV every day posting negative comments. 

[greatwhitenorth]

10 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

TBL is an old guy like me, most of us don't require (or want) much company.

The only company I can endure these days, is other English men, and then only in short bursts.

bet you don t have to buy hair gel 555

[MaeJoMTB]

10 minutes ago, Gecko123 said:

Can't help but wonder what the Thai wife has to say about this linguistic chauvanism.

Why would her opinion on anything matter?

[greatwhitenorth]

He's finally come clean and told us he's into Englishmen that give him a short burst. 

 

Why would it matter what his wife/employee thinks.

[MaeJoMTB]

12 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

Some people get all the company they want from being on TV every day posting negative comments. 

You said it all ............

 

 

Edited February 5, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[isaanbanhou]

6 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

You said it all ............

 

 1 whole post.   Proof positive, what an avalanche of evidence, he buried you in it 5555

 

[wildewillie89]

1 minute ago, Gecko123 said:

Wildwillie:

 

No one said speaking Thai would protect you from an unprovoked attack on the street. But Thai could help you defuse a confrontation, as has been shown on numerous videos of altercations. Also, Thai language ability might help alert you to a danger you would otherwise not be able to perceive: there's a cobra in the grass, that insect is poisonous, that dog has rabies, he can't be trusted, there are jelly fish in the water today, these trees are infested with beetles and their limbs sometimes unexpectedly break off and injure people. etc. If you want to tell yourself there'll always be an English speaking person around who knows of the danger who will alert you, go right ahead. Think you're kidding yourself however.

 

You seem to be reasoning that because English speaking people provide more accurate information than Thai speaking people, better to just go directly to the more accurate source and save yourself all the run around. Maybe true in some cases, but hardly something you can generalize about, and depends a great deal on what you are talking about.

 

Language proficiency isn't just another "interest" akin to having a dog or cooking. It affects how you interact with the people in your environment.

 

I'm not going to get dragged into an endless argument about this, but my parting questions would concern your role as a father. What kind of example are you setting, if you show little interest in learning how to communicate with the non-English speaking people in your environment? What racial and class messages are you sending to your son when you set an example that communication with non-English speaking people isn't of interest to you?  In today's multi-cultural, multi-racial, multi-lingual world I would argue you are putting him at a serious disadvantage. You indicated in an earlier post that spending time with your son is a higher priority than learning Thai. Have you ever considered learning Thai together with your son? Sounds like an opportunity to spend some "quality time" with him.

 

Also, assuming your wife is Thai, and your son is part-Thai and you plan to live in Thailand for some length of time, how do you communicate with non-English members of your wife's family and social circle, and your son's non-English speaking school and play mates, teachers, etc.?

Most of those things one can learn without language when living in their environment, or can easily be communicated through other means. The insect thing there is a lot of debate on this forum. Many uneducated Thai claim they are dangerous, farang claim many are not and usually attach the research to prove it. So if someone wants to live a life of constant fear due to believing everything they hear will kill them then that is up to them. One time I was unsure was when my dog killed a snake and it looked like the snake got in a bite. I merely took the photo of the snake, sent it to a pharmacy friend who works in the hospital and she asked the hospital staff (got my answer in 5 minutes). I have called for an EMS by myself, I have even been able to get a drip hooked up in my home if I have had severe food poisoning by myself. Language has not been required. 

How do everyday people know dogs have rabies? That is why they are quarantined as people don't know. On the rabies topic, I have presented ideas to government officials re rabies (in English), I also had an essay translated that received an award from the royal family re rabies situation in Thailand. To be able to write that essay myself would take at least a Bachelor level education at a top 5 Thai University (something I don't have time for with a full time job, a newborn and toddler living in the NE). I have also discussed ideas re hospitals to help farang to the Director of Public Health for the whole of the South region of Thailand as he is a nice friend. He is always travelling around the world looking for new ideas to improve hospitals to make them more user friendly and whenever I am sick asks to send through my blood tests/notes to make sure I am getting the right treatment. All in English.

Actually, I said 'credible' people, not 'English speaking'. Someone can be English speaking but also not a credible source (taxi drivers, many neighbours etc - all depends on the level of their education). But yes, go to the source. I have asked for a source numerous times on a previous talked about point in this thread, I even said it can be in Thai. I asked for it because what educated Thai people told me was different to what 'fluent' farang speakers were saying. No one has given me the source yet, which suggests to me their language ability is either not good enough to do the research (which tells me they will never fully understand the environment) or they have got the information from non-credible sources to begin with.

As for the father comment, I once recall having a conversation with someone on here about this very subject. He did  learn Thai as his Mrs didn't speak English. As a result his child cannot speak the level of English he would have hoped for. It was big a regret of his. He, from memory, suggested I speak only speak English at home (as the kid will get a lot of Thai everywhere else). 

Not to mention considering to get a good education in the country, the good schools are way too formal for children at a young age, further formal teaching after school (when they get to that age), would be crazy. I want my kids to do more enjoyable outside activities such as sport, maybe a musical instrument etc (not form negative attitudes by being drowned in study). I am sure my son, if he follows in the foot steps of his mother, will completely understand the reasons why I chose not to spend my time learning Thai and playing with him instead. As mentioned earlier, both my wife and I decided to bring our kids up in the village purely to avoid this class notion, rather than live in the big cities where she used to work. If he forms the belief you seem to think, then I would say his critical thinking skills are not at the level they should be and I have failed him due to that, not language. 

 

Are people of the belief that absolutely no one speaks English in Thailand? I am on email terms with my doctor in English and she stops me to talk to me for 20 minutes every time she sees us in the hospital/street. I have people who stop me in the shops to have a conversation with me in English and ask me why I buy so much meat (which leads to a discussion about dog diets). My close friends (people I feel the need to communicate with on a regular basis) all speak a level of English that is required. Those who do not, I am not overly close with so don't feel the need to see them alone or spend any sort of regular time with anyway. The younger generation of my family (cousins) can speak a bit of English, enough for me to communicate with them the once a month or so I see them. When I had my appendix out, my cousin and uncle came to visit me alone in hospital. We had no problems communicating about my health. 

My mother-in-law doesn't speak any English, however, that has never caused any problems. I lived there for a while and we never had any issues not understanding each other with things that were needed to be done. Routines are routines. Just like many other farang manage to get by just fine. If the teachers at my kids school aren't speaking the required level to talk to me, then they shouldn't be teaching my children. I have already interacted with the teachers I will be sending my children to through social events anyway.

Again, it is absolutely fantastic, I cant speak highly enough of those who speak the language. Good on you. However, realistically it is not at all needed and the constant put downs by many speakers on this forum is a little lame. Obviously insecurities coming out from somewhere, but who cares. Just enjoy life and worry about your families and yourselves, not complete strangers. 

[JLCrab]

Being in Thailand and being able to have a reasonable conversation with a Thai person male or especially female who does not speak English is fun .. and if only can be considered fun then that is enough for me.

[MrPatrickThai]

1 hour ago, wildewillie89 said:

My mother-in-law doesn't speak any English, however, that has never caused any problems. I lived there for a while and we never had any issues not understanding each other with things that were needed to be done. Routines are routines. Just like many other farang manage to get by just fine. If the teachers at my kids school aren't speaking the required level to talk to me, then they shouldn't be teaching my children. I have already interacted with the teachers I will be sending my children to through social events anyway.

Wow. You think the teachers at a village school should speak English with you? I wonder what they think of you, and as for your MIL, I wonder what your kid thinks about you being unable to converse with his grandmother. Sorry, but I find this very sad, especially for your kids. Imagine if you were at school and your friends found out one of your parents was illiterate.

 

Btw, what 'source' are you on about that you want in Thai? 

[Naam]

2 hours ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Talking about the philosophy of karma at the local temple. Talking about cryptocurrencies at the Rotary Club dinner on Friday night, talking about paying my mortgage off at the bank last week, searching on Panthip.com about the best univerities in bangkok etc etc

Many deaf people can speak Thai. What's your excuse for not writing it?

-i don't frequent local temples,

-i'm not a member of any club nor do i invest in cryptocurrencies,

-except for the purchase of my first condo 45 years ago all my houses were paid for in cash,

-i hold a D.Sc.rer.nat. and and a Master's mech.eng. no more university for me,

-deaf people speaking a tonal language is a miracle... happens only in Thailand.

-i never write letters in Thai and those i receive (3/12th of a dozen per annum)

are read by my my assistant and answered after consulting with me.

 

next irrelevant suggestion please!

[MrPatrickThai]

4 minutes ago, Naam said:

-i don't frequent local temples,

-i'm not a member of any club nor do i invest in cryptocurrencies,

-except for the purchase of my first condo 45 years ago all my houses were paid for in cash,

-i hold a D.Sc.rer.nat. and and a Master's mech.eng. no more university for me,

-deaf people speaking a tonal language is a miracle... happens only in Thailand.

-i never write letters in Thai and those i receive (3/12th of a dozen per annum)

are read by my my assistant and answered after consulting with me.

 

next irrelevant suggestion please!

I understand you not going to temple if you can't talk to anyone, without your translator.

Same as not being the member of a club. If you want to be a hermit, fine, bit most foreigners in Thailand are not retirees with no life. Do you have any hobbies?

[Naam]

4 hours ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Of course. This is true in with any foreign country with a different  language. Not making any attempt to learn, even if you are a tourist, is madness, total madness. Somehow trying to show that you are superior to the countrymen you live among.

you Honourable Sir don't know what you are talking about. i spent 4½ years in one of the federal states of Nigeria constructing an industrial plant. the local official languages (not dialects) used besides English in this state were Tiv, Idoma, Igede. moreover we had supervisors and workers speaking Yoruba, Igbo, Haussa, Fulfulde. these are the ones i remember but there must have been a bunch other languages spoken by various employees.

 

my impression from many posts in this forum is that any foreigner who has acquired some basic knowledge of Thai is trying to show that he is superior to other foreigners even if he can only manage in Thai "supper you make today have goodness too much Teerak".

 

[MaeJoMTB]

1 hour ago, wildewillie89 said:

Most of those things one can learn without language when living in their environment, or can easily be communicated through other means. The insect thing there is a lot of debate on this forum. Many uneducated Thai claim they are dangerous, farang claim many are not and usually attach the research to prove it. So if someone wants to live a life of constant fear due to believing everything they hear will kill them then that is up to them. One time I was unsure was when my dog killed a snake and it looked like the snake got in a bite. I merely took the photo of the snake, sent it to a pharmacy friend who works in the hospital and she asked the hospital staff (got my answer in 5 minutes). I have called for an EMS by myself, I have even been able to get a drip hooked up in my home if I have had severe food poisoning by myself. Language has not been required. 

Snakes, my Thai neighbors (wealthy from Bangkok) are clueless about snakes, they were scared of one in their garden the other day, I told then 'banded kukri completely harmless', they reply 'very dangerous' ....... but what do I know, I'm only a foreigner.

[MrPatrickThai]

4 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

Snakes, my Thai neighbors (wealthy from Bangkok) are clueless about snakes, they were scared of one in their garden the other day, I told then 'banded kukri completely harmless', they reply 'very dangerous' ....... but what do I know, I'm only a foreigner.

Knowing the word ngu saam liam, or banded krait was important to me once when I came upon one in Nakon Nayok. I also saw another in bangkok. Extremely dangerous. What's a kukri?

[MrPatrickThai]

11 minutes ago, Naam said:

you Honourable Sir don't know what you are talking about. i spent 4½ years in one of the federal states of Nigeria constructing an industrial plant. the local official languages (not dialects) used besides English in this state were Tiv, Idoma, Igede. moreover we had supervisors and workers speaking Yoruba, Igbo, Haussa, Fulfulde. these are the ones i remember but there must have been a bunch other languages spoken by various employees.

You sound like my granddad going on about fighting the Nazis during the war and all his other achievements in the past.  Live for the present, I say.  Mind you, I respect what he did, or we may all be having to learn German now! What has you working in Nigeria got to do with anything on this thread. You say English was the official language?

[Naam]

19 minutes ago, MrPatrickThai said:

I understand you not going to temple if you can't talk to anyone, without your translator.

Same as not being the member of a club. If you want to be a hermit, fine, bit most foreigners in Thailand are not retirees with no life. Do you have any hobbies?

you seem to have big problems to understand. are you assuming that i am a Buddhist? well i'm not and neither is my wife who is (according to you) totally mad because she does not want to learn Thai. and because we are not Buddhists we don't visit temples regularly but both of us have seen enough temples of various religions to last for several life times.

 

i hate clubs and i hate crowds of more than five people in one spot. yes, many TV-members are aware that i tend to live like a hermit. i do that since i retired 28 years ago and i have so many hobbies that i wish the day had 36 hours (30 hours for my hobbies and 6 hours for sleeping). and if you think i don't have a life because my wife is not Thai you have my sincere sympathy.

[Naam]

2 minutes ago, MrPatrickThai said:

You say English was the official language?

English was the official language on government level but not on the construction site. enough now, my time is too precious to waste on arrogant ignorants.

[Naam]

13 minutes ago, MrPatrickThai said:

What's a kukri?

a Brit who doesn't know what a kukri is? you are excused if you are American.

[MrPatrickThai]

3 minutes ago, Naam said:

you seem to have big problems to understand. are you assuming that i am a Buddhist? well i'm not and neither is my wife who is (according to you) totally mad because she does not want to learn Thai. and because we are not Buddhists we don't visit temples regularly but both of us have seen enough temples of various religions to last for several life times.

 

i hate clubs and i hate crowds of more than five people in one spot. yes, many TV-members are aware that i tend to live like a hermit. i do that since i retired 28 years ago and i have so many hobbies that i wish the day had 36 hours (30 hours for my hobbies and 6 hours for sleeping). and if you think i don't have a life because my wife is not Thai you have my sincere sympathy.

Temples here are like community centres. I'm not Buddhist yet enjoy discussing spiritual matters.

So you have visited other temples in other countries, it's only Thailand you are shunning? 

 

I said nothing about your wife and didn't know she wasn't Thai.

 

I have hobbies too and find many useful sites online(in Thai) to read about them and find out where to do them.

 

[MrPatrickThai]

5 minutes ago, Naam said:

English was the official language on government level but not on the construction site. enough now, my time is too precious to waste on arrogant ignorants.

Wow, if lost for words, turn to insults. I can't believe you were TV poster of the year.

Edited February 5, 2018 by MrPatrickThai