When Farangs Go Native

[MrPatrickThai]

13 hours ago, Naam said:

i live in my home that is located in a moo ban surrounded by Thailand. once in a while i venture through the gates of the moo baan and enter Thailand where (to the best of my knowledge) i have never met a person ranking higher than me and waiing me. let me add that in my view a social ladder does not exist. human beings are all equal!

So you know nothing about Thailand and have no interest in finding out. You've never met anyone superior to yourself. Let's leave it there. Much better to post all day on a Thai-based forum and vote multiple times for yourself for poster of the year, pity the owners could tell and took it away from you  

[MrPatrickThai]

13 hours ago, Naam said:

by the way, that you took my joke "different greetings according to time" serious is naïveté²

German humour? Supper sounds like sawat?

 

At least we now know why your English comes across strangely -  your automatic translator missed the last word.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, MrPatrickThai said:

So you know nothing about Thailand and have no interest in finding out. You've never met anyone superior to yourself. Let's leave it there. Much better to post all day on a Thai-based forum and vote multiple times for yourself for poster of the year, pity the owners could tell and took it away from you  

 

Your arrogance astounds me.

 

I have lived and worked in over 30 countries in my life including Chile and Venezuela where they speak Spanish, but not the same Spanish nor was it European Spanish, at least 5 Arab countries, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Papua New Guinea where they speak many different languages and dialects, Angola, Thailand, yet somehow I managed to survive, work, live a reasonable life without having to immerse myself in the country as you say is a MUST.

 

I am partly deaf, more tone deaf, old at 73, still ride a motorbike and drive a truck, live in rural Thailand where not so many people speak English and manage to live fairly well. I have quite a few Thai friends, I get on well with the shopkeepers in the villages and in Khampaeng Phet and I speak a little Thai which is bad as I cannot hear the tones very well and what I think I say a Thai might hear differently.

 

Yet YOU believe I should immerse myself in Thai.

 

I reckon that I am doing OK, so where am I going wrong?

[Naam]

1 hour ago, MrPatrickThai said:

humour?

yes! it's something you lack.

[billd766]

1 hour ago, MrPatrickThai said:

German humour? Supper sounds like sawat?

 

At least we now know why your English comes across strangely -  your automatic translator missed the last word.

 

Ignorance and arrogance once again.

[Naam]

2 minutes ago, billd766 said:

Ignorance and arrogance once again.

he is entitled to that... after all he is some ''Mr. Thai''.

[MaeJoMTB]

2 hours ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Hmmm. Coming from someone who said that his partner's parents sold her when she was a teenager, I find this rather funny. 

But you love Thailand and everything Thai, Marriage ......... I did it Thaiiiiiiiii way.

Not my partner, Thai tradition says my property.

 

Damn ....... I've gone native!

Edited February 11, 2018 by MaeJoMTB

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 1:24 PM, smutcakes said:

I am sure you would be less flippant should your son be bitten by a snake and you be unable to confer anything to the medics in Thai.

Hmmmmm, I always thought pointing at an obvious snake bite on a child's leg would be sufficient to convey to a medic that the child had been bitten by a snake, but apparently I have to be able to have a conversation in Thai so they are able to do their job, as no Thai medic is apparently capable of understanding that an obvious snake bite is in fact a snake bite.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 12:59 PM, richard_smith237 said:

 

I'd consider knowing both a better option !!!... that the snake is dangerous, how to identify it to locals in their native language and how to ask for their help !!!... 

 

Even a smattering of Thai (or local language in any country) will always be more useful than none.

 

Those who think otherwise are perfect examples of the Dunning-Kruger effect where people simply 'don't know what they don't know'...  Whereas those who can speak the local language often benefit from the 'Wisdom of their Ignorance' and less commonly fall foul of their own over-confidence.

 

This forum itself is a great example of how the over-confidence of some who claim they never need to learn Thai are so very unaware of the possible benefits, the flawed examples they provide of not needing to learn Thai outline their ignorance for they are simply unable to be aware of what they are unaware. 

 

 

 

 

This is getting to be quite amusing , as esoteric psychological theories are bandied about as proof that any of us that can't indulge in long philosophical conversations with the local populace are somehow MISSING OUT on SOMETHING, despite not being able to actually describe what SOMETHING is or why it should concern us about MISSING OUT on SOMETHING, despite never having been concerned about SOMETHING, whatever SOMETHING is before reading threads like this on TVF, where SOMETHING is presented as an argument for me to spend many long and boring hours learning conversational Thai so I can discuss SOMETHING that I never knew I needed to discuss before I heard about SOMETHING, which I never knew about before.

[dick dasterdly]

 For some reason this thread has turned into a debate on how important it is to speak Thai, and whether it is achievable by everyone.

 

FWIW (bugger all!), I frequently regret being unable to speak the language for various reasons, including:-

 

1)  The embarrassment factor when a Thai says 'you speak good Thai.  How long have you been here?' - knowing full well that they actually mean 'You know more Thai than a tourist'.  Needless to say, I avoid the question as it is too embarrassing to admit that I've lived here so many years without being able to speak the language. 

 

2) Many Thais that I see regularly are v friendly, and try hard to converse.  The usual combination of mangled English (on their part) and even more mangled Thai (on my part) - has resulted in my doing my best to keep these 'chats' very short, as I don't have the patience. 

 

A poster mentioned snakes as why it's necessary to speak Thai...  Disagree entirely as 'danger' is easily communicable.  My cleaner and I spent an entertaining half-hour yesterday 'discussing'  the difference between the Golden Tree snake that spends it's morning sleeping on my patio ceiling, and a similar looking viper with a red neck.  Thank god for sign language/gestures and the internet !

[smutcakes]

23 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Hmmmmm, I always thought pointing at an obvious snake bite on a child's leg would be sufficient to convey to a medic that the child had been bitten by a snake, but apparently I have to be able to have a conversation in Thai so they are able to do their job, as no Thai medic is apparently capable of understanding that an obvious snake bite is in fact a snake bite.

It is fairly important in being able to identify or explain what it looked like so the correct medicine can be administered. Anyway its a pointless discussion. Some will learn the language, so won't, for a variety of reasons. Personally i think living here, working here and being relatively young, it is beneficial for me both personally and professionally to learn Thai. If i was retired living a quiet life in the burbs, i perhaps would not bother.

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, smutcakes said:

It is fairly important in being able to identify or explain what it looked like so the correct medicine can be administered. Anyway its a pointless discussion. Some will learn the language, so won't, for a variety of reasons. Personally i think living here, working here and being relatively young, it is beneficial for me both personally and professionally to learn Thai. If i was retired living a quiet life in the burbs, i perhaps would not bother.

Agree completely about the sake identification, and a dead snake is always preferable than a garbled explanation about a snake that was glimpsed fleetingly as it fled into the long grass, as many snakes look similar, and antivenom needs to be specific to the snake.

What is worth knowing though, is first aid for snake bite, as it is immediate care that saves people long enough to reach hospital. Any with children in Thailand should know first aid for children if they care about them. Different from first aid for adults.

 

PS, if I'd been able to live in LOS as a young fella, I'd speak Thai like a local, but I wasn't and I don't.

[MaeJoMTB]

9 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

It is fairly important in being able to identify or explain what it looked like so the correct medicine can be administered.

It's normal to take the dead body of the snake with you to the hospital.

No need to speak Thai, just show them the dead snake.

[smutcakes]

8 minutes ago, MaeJoMTB said:

It's normal to take the dead body of the snake with you to the hospital.

No need to speak Thai, just show them the dead snake.

If you happen to have had a shovel handy to kill it with.

[thaibeachlovers]

29 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Many Thais that I see regularly are v friendly, and try hard to converse. 

Perhaps you possess some attraction for said Thais to be v friendly, and good luck to you for that.

One thing I've always been puzzled about is how disinterested the Thais I meet are in anything outside their own small world. None ever asked me anything about like where I come from, or try to improve their ( usually abysmal ) English language skills.

So, I find it interesting to read about other people with a different experience, like yourself.

Perhaps not so strangely, the only Thais that did express an interest in me were those that thought they would benefit financially from an interaction.

 

[thaibeachlovers]

5 minutes ago, smutcakes said:

If you happen to have had a shovel handy to kill it with.

Big stick, or a broom works too.

No competent medic will proceed on an unverified description of a snake when it could be a completely different variety.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 1:37 PM, DrTuner said:

I think it's going to be loads of fun when the AI translators hit the market. Then everyone will understand what the Thais are talking about. Ain't gonna be pretty, much less when the farang then replies and the Thai can understand it. Murder, I say.

 

Also makes the whole pissing contest about who's spent how much time getting fluent moot. Much in the same way pub quizzes dies when google hit the smartphones. 

I had a "conversation" with a young lady in a bar beer which involved her using the translate function on her phone.

It'll be easier when the phones can translate verbal conversations though, which can't be far away.

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 4:34 PM, johng said:

 

คนไทยกระจก

Khon or kon Thai grajock not khun

I understand it to mean literally "sparrow" Thai.

Meaning an ordinary nothing special person who may (or may not) think they are a big shot/rich/important.

 

LOL, that perfectly describes some farangs that think because they roll into Thailand with a barrow full of cash following their divorce back home and spend up large- houses, cars, big sin sod for the new beloved that they are sooooooo much better than the farang that doesn't have a barrow full of cash and doesn't think they should give everything to a woman that is prepared to say yes.

[MrPatrickThai]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

Ignorance and arrogance once again.

Who rattled your cage? Please explain your flame, rather than just spout it.

 

How long have you lived here? Do you live in a village? Can you speak the Thai language?

 

I wouldn't be surprised if you are another retired hermit, unable to speak to your neighbours. let me take a wild guess, you have a hearing disability  

[MrPatrickThai]

2 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

Your arrogance astounds me.

 

I have lived and worked in over 30 countries in my life including Chile and Venezuela where they speak Spanish, but not the same Spanish nor was it European Spanish, at least 5 Arab countries, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Papua New Guinea where they speak many different languages and dialects, Angola, Thailand, yet somehow I managed to survive, work, live a reasonable life without having to immerse myself in the country as you say is a MUST.

 

I am partly deaf, more tone deaf, old at 73, still ride a motorbike and drive a truck, live in rural Thailand where not so many people speak English and manage to live fairly well. I have quite a few Thai friends, I get on well with the shopkeepers in the villages and in Khampaeng Phet and I speak a little Thai which is bad as I cannot hear the tones very well and what I think I say a Thai might hear differently.

 

Yet YOU believe I should immerse myself in Thai.

 

I reckon that I am doing OK, so where am I going wrong?

Sorry, I missed this post. 

 

Do you have any regrets not learning Thai when you moved here 20 +years ago? How long have you been deaf?

 

Did you learn to read, if not, why?

 

Edited February 11, 2018 by MrPatrickThai

[thaibeachlovers]

On ‎2‎/‎8‎/‎2018 at 10:11 PM, MaeJoMTB said:

You do understand that 3 or 4 kids in the class do all the work and everyone else copies?

And almost everyone in the world knows that.

 

In fact they have even made a  recent Thai movie about it 'Bad Genius'.

I saw that- good movie.

A person's life depends entirely on them and not on a piece of paper, as a piece of paper can always be earned later.

I was a complete failure as a student as I hated the <deleted> they tried to make me learn ( we were streamed into certain subjects and not allowed to do what we wanted. Unfortunately, the subjects I wanted to do were only for the lowest demographic, and my marks were too high to be streamed in that demographic ).

So, despite leaving school with sod all in the way of qualifications and no uni at all, I had three and a half good careers in my life, 3 of which allowed me to travel and work internationally. Worth knowing that I would not now be allowed to become the last now as it has become a uni graduate entry level job, which is insane, but that's a different thread.

 

Actually, I feel sorry for those that went into debt to obtain a piece of paper, but couldn't get a better job than working in a fast food restaurant.

[MrPatrickThai]

20 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I had a "conversation" with a young lady in a bar beer which involved her using the translate function on her phone.

It'll be easier when the phones can translate verbal conversations though, which can't be far away.

Interesting. When that day comes, I'll have wasted years of my life becoming a translator.  Saying 'bar beer' is rather weird. Gone native?

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Interesting. When that day comes, I'll have wasted years of my life becoming a translator.  Saying 'bar beer' is rather weird. Gone native?

Oh, what do you call them?

[MrPatrickThai]

4 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Oh, what do you call them?

bars or pubs

[thaibeachlovers]

19 hours ago, MrPatrickThai said:

I have read his other posts and think he was serious. Not waiing those above you on the social ladder is rude, FULL STOP. 

Also, he's lived here for probably 10 years and doesn't know arun sawat, sawatdee dton chao, or ratree sawat. 

Oh, you consider others to be superior to you then?

I don't recognise "social" distinctions, and the only people I have contact with that I consider to be "above me" are those that I work for, and that's only at work.

Edited February 11, 2018 by thaibeachlovers

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, MrPatrickThai said:

bars or pubs

55555555555555555

I guess you don't know as much about LOS as you thought you did then.

A barbeer is not the same as a bar or pub.

Google barbeer+Thailand and learn something new today.

[dick dasterdly]

11 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

Perhaps you possess some attraction for said Thais to be v friendly, and good luck to you for that.

One thing I've always been puzzled about is how disinterested the Thais I meet are in anything outside their own small world. None ever asked me anything about like where I come from, or try to improve their ( usually abysmal ) English language skills.

So, I find it interesting to read about other people with a different experience, like yourself.

Perhaps not so strangely, the only Thais that did express an interest in me were those that thought they would benefit financially from an interaction.

 

I'm a female westerner, which is probably the difference?

 

My most embarrassing (and reprehensible...) encounter was when two Thai women working in a nearby 'farang type' local eatery stopped and rescued my 'runaway' dog who was terrified by the fireworks one New Year, to the extent she squeezed through the patio door 'grille' and ran....  Fortunately she had a  name and 'phone collar tag, so they 'phoned me to let me know they had my dog.

 

The next day, I obviously went back with gifts of money (in the tip box) and chocolate - but I was taken by suprise when one of the women turned up at my house a day or so later! I doubt she thought there was any financial benefit - more likely she was just interested in talking to a female 'farang'.

 

To my shame, I couldn't be bothered once it was clear her English was minimal (and obviously my Thai is even worse)...  I still feel extremely guilty at making so little effort to converse once I realised a proper conversation was impossible .

[thaibeachlovers]

1 minute ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'm a female westerner, which is probably the difference?

 

My most embarrassing (and reprehensible...) encounter was when two Thai women working in a nearby 'farang type' local eatery stopped and rescued my 'runaway' dog who was terrified by the fireworks one New Year, to the extent she squeezed through the patio door 'grille' and ran....  Fortunately she had a  name and 'phone collar tag, so they 'phoned me to let me know they had my dog.

 

The next day, I obviously went back with gifts of money (in the tip box) and chocolate - but I was taken by suprise when one of the women turned up at my house a day or so later! I doubt she thought there was any financial benefit - more likely she was just interested in talking to a female 'farang'.

 

To my shame, I couldn't be bothered once it was clear her English was minimal (and obviously my Thai is even worse)...  I still feel extremely guilty at making so little effort to converse once I realised a proper conversation was impossible .

I'm a female westerner, which is probably the difference?

Say no more. That is the only explanation needed.

have a nice day.

[MrPatrickThai]

3 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

55555555555555555

I guess you don't know as much about LOS as you thought you did then.

A barbeer is not the same as a bar or pub.

Google barbeer+Thailand and learn something new today.

Who said I know a lot about Thailand? I certainly didn't. 

 

bar beer  is the Thai for beer bar, duh. 

[dick dasterdly]

4 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

I'm a female westerner, which is probably the difference?

 

My most embarrassing (and reprehensible...) encounter was when two Thai women working in a nearby 'farang type' local eatery stopped and rescued my 'runaway' dog who was terrified by the fireworks one New Year, to the extent she squeezed through the patio door 'grille' and ran....  Fortunately she had a  name and 'phone collar tag, so they 'phoned me to let me know they had my dog.

 

The next day, I obviously went back with gifts of money (in the tip box) and chocolate - but I was taken by suprise when one of the women turned up at my house a day or so later! I doubt she thought there was any financial benefit - more likely she was just interested in talking to a female 'farang'.

 

To my shame, I couldn't be bothered once it was clear her English was minimal (and obviously my Thai is even worse)...  I still feel extremely guilty at making so little effort to converse once I realised a proper conversation was impossible .

 

2 minutes ago, thaibeachlovers said:

I'm a female westerner, which is probably the difference?

Say no more. That is the only explanation needed.

have a nice day.

I'm sorry to have offended you  - purely because I have the nerve to be a western female living in Thailand !