Why Doesnt "Me Too" Apply to Democrats?

[webfact]

Canada PM says doesn't think Trump will pull U.S. out of NAFTA

By David Ljunggren

 

Canada's Prime Minister Justin Trudeau attends the World Economic Forum (WEF) annual meeting in Davos, Switzerland January 25, 2018. REUTERS/Denis Balibouse

 

OTTAWA (Reuters) - Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau on Wednesday said he did not think U.S. President Donald Trump would pull out of NAFTA, despite slow progress at negotiations to update the $1.2 trillion trade pact.

 

Trudeau's comments were among the most positive made by any Canadian official since talks started last year to revamp the North American Free Trade Agreement, which Trump calls a disaster that killed off many U.S. manufacturing jobs.

 

Scrapping NAFTA would badly hurt U.S. workers and industries, Trudeau told Winnipeg radio station 680 CJOB.

 

"I'm confident that the president is going to see that and choose to not terminate because it's not in his or Americans' best interests to walk away from NAFTA," he said.

 

Trump's trade chief, speaking on Monday after the sixth of eight rounds of talks, rejected proposals for unblocking the negotiations but promised to seek quick breakthroughs.

 

Canadian Foreign Minister Chrystia Freeland, speaking to the Council on Foreign Relations think tank in New York, on Wednesday said significant gaps still remained between the United States on one hand and Canada and Mexico on the other.

 

Freeland will meet her U.S. and Mexican counterparts in Mexico City on Friday to discuss the talks and other issues.

 

Canadian officials came out of the latest talks in a better frame of mind than at the start of the week-long round, said a person briefed on the negotiating team's conclusions.

 

"They are a much more optimistic group than they were...imminent death is no longer the defining mood but at the same time it's still going to be a very, very long haul," said the person, who requested anonymity given the sensitivity of the situation.

 

Work on renegotiating the deal began soon after Trump took office a year ago. He said if it could not be overhauled to better favour U.S. interests and American workers, Washington would pull out.

 

The Trump administration is demanding big changes to the pact, and this has caused tensions with Canada and Mexico.

 

Trudeau told 680 CJOB that "there are multiple issues at which point" Canada would not accept a deal.

 

"We've pushed our American partners on this and they understand that right now," he said.

 

In his State of the Union speech on Tuesday, Trump said "America has also finally turned the page on decades of unfair trade deals," but did not mention NAFTA by name.

 

Trudeau told the Canadian Broadcasting Corp that Canada has multiple contingency plans in the event Washington does announce it plans to withdraw.

 

Government sources told Reuters on Jan 10 that Ottawa was increasingly convinced Washington would give notice of withdrawal. The news hit stock markets and the Canadian and Mexican currencies.

 

Asked about contingency plans, Trudeau told the CBC "not only do we have a Plan B, we have a Plan C and D and E and F". He declined to give details.

 

(Reporting by David Ljunggren; Editing by Andrew Hay and Alistair Bell)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-02-01

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Love you Justin, joop, joop

[isaanbanhou]

 

  " Asked about contingency plans, Trudeau told the CBC "not only do we have a Plan B, we have a Plan C and D and E and F". He declined to give details."

 

That's because he spent the last 6 months coming up with catchy names for the plans, now  he has to come up with plans

Edited February 1, 2018 by isaanbanhou

[Samui Bodoh]

There is reason to be confident of reaching an agreement; the difficulty is American issues with Mexico.

 

In terms of Canada-US trade, Canada is the biggest trading partner of 37? 38? (not certain of the exact number, but this is close) states. Just imagine the howls of US Senators, Dem and Repub alike, if Trump screws up their states most important trading relationship. 

 

In terms of the US-Mexico relationship, the US needs to be careful. Currently, there is a friendly government in Mexico; what happens if that changes to one that is hostile to the US? Trade agreements aren't solely about trade; there often is a national security and/or political element to them. And the global example of making a trade agreement for political/security purposes was the inclusion of Mexico in AFTA.

 

The danger here is Trump's rhetoric just might screw everything up...

 

[canuckamuck]

Trump has experience dealing with commies, he should have no problem working something out with Justin.

[Boon Mee]

It appears that Trump will probably rework the existing treaty. 

[Franko666]

"Canda PM doesn't think"..................sentence finished, enough said!!!

[Stargeezr]

Justin Trudeau is nothing like his father who was intelligent.

 Pierre was also a pilot, his son only a teacher.

 Mr. Marshmellow man had better hope that, Trump is side

stepped by the rest of his government, and that NAFTA is 

renewed.

Geezer

[pegman]

6 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

Trump has experience dealing with commies, he should have no problem working something out with Justin.

You and the rest of your fascist buddies need to get use to him as he is good for another 3 terms easy. 

[canuckamuck]

30 minutes ago, pegman said:

You and the rest of your fascist buddies need to get use to him as he is good for another 3 terms easy. 

You know fascism comes from socialism right? Hitler was the leader of the National socialists (nazis). But the word fascism originated from Mussolini's Italian socialist party. They were good pals though. Socialism depends on fascist tactics because they have no capacity for dissenting opinion. Trudeau may be foisting diverstiy of culture, but you can be sure his agenda is as Marxist as it gets.  

 

But I wouldn't be surprised to see you Easterners licking his boots and peeling his grapes. 3 more years should be enough to create a failed state.

[Franko666]

1 hour ago, canuckamuck said:

You know fascism comes from socialism right? Hitler was the leader of the National socialists (nazis). But the word fascism originated from Mussolini's Italian socialist party. They were good pals though. Socialism depends on fascist tactics because they have no capacity for dissenting opinion. Trudeau may be foisting diverstiy of culture, but you can be sure his agenda is as Marxist as it gets.  

 

But I wouldn't be surprised to see you Easterners licking his boots and peeling his grapes. 3 more years should be enough to create a failed state.

Yes democrats are quick to shout fascist to republicans or anyone to the right of Karl Marx, however by any definition democrats are the true fascists. Go read up pegman and be educated.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Franko666

[charmonman]

1 hour ago, canuckamuck said:

You know fascism comes from socialism right? Hitler was the leader of the National socialists (nazis). But the word fascism originated from Mussolini's Italian socialist party. They were good pals though. Socialism depends on fascist tactics because they have no capacity for dissenting opinion. Trudeau may be foisting diverstiy of culture, but you can be sure his agenda is as Marxist as it gets.  

 

But I wouldn't be surprised to see you Easterners licking his boots and peeling his grapes. 3 more years should be enough to create a failed state.

So you think the Nazis were "socialists" because they had the word "socialist" in their name? So I guess you think the Democratic Peoples Republic of (North) Korea is a democracy?

 

As for Mussolini, he was expelled from the Italian socialist party around the start of WW1 and then denounced them. He became a fascist after the war and said  "Socialism as a doctrine was already dead; it continued to exist only as a grudge"

[charmonman]

25 minutes ago, Franko666 said:

Yes democrats are quick to shout fascist to republicans or anyone to the right of Karl Marx, however by any definition democrats are the true fascists. Go read up pegman and be educated.

What definition would that be exactly? 

[kamahele]

The Prime Minister over estimates the intelligence of our president....

[canuckamuck]

36 minutes ago, charmonman said:

So you think the Nazis were "socialists" because they had the word "socialist" in their name? So I guess you think the Democratic Peoples Republic of (North) Korea is a democracy?

 

As for Mussolini, he was expelled from the Italian socialist party around the start of WW1 and then denounced them. He became a fascist after the war and said  "Socialism as a doctrine was already dead; it continued to exist only as a grudge"

I think Trudeau's Liberal party is liberal just as the name implies.

 

How about this from the encyclopedia of economics? 

Quote

As an economic system, fascism is socialism with a capitalist veneer. The word derives from fasces, the Roman symbol of collectivism and power: a tied bundle of rods with a protruding ax. In its day (the 1920s and 1930s), fascism was seen as the happy medium between boom-and-bust-prone liberal capitalism, with its alleged class conflict, wasteful competition, and profit-oriented egoism, and revolutionary Marxism, with its violent and socially divisive persecution of the bourgeoisie. Fascism substituted the particularity of nationalism and racialism—“blood and soil”—for the internationalism of both classical liberalism and Marxism.  Link

 

[Scott]

Please stay on topic, which is about NAFTA, not the meaning of socialism or democracy.   

[ilostmypassword]

15 hours ago, Samui Bodoh said:

There is reason to be confident of reaching an agreement; the difficulty is American issues with Mexico.

 

In terms of Canada-US trade, Canada is the biggest trading partner of 37? 38? (not certain of the exact number, but this is close) states. Just imagine the howls of US Senators, Dem and Repub alike, if Trump screws up their states most important trading relationship. 

 

In terms of the US-Mexico relationship, the US needs to be careful. Currently, there is a friendly government in Mexico; what happens if that changes to one that is hostile to the US? Trade agreements aren't solely about trade; there often is a national security and/or political element to them. And the global example of making a trade agreement for political/security purposes was the inclusion of Mexico in AFTA.

 

The danger here is Trump's rhetoric just might screw everything up...

 

I think the farmers in the corn growing states would disagree with you about Mexico. Trump's popularity in Iowa has plummeted on account of his attitudes towards undocumented workers and the threat to NAFTA which has benefited them mightily.

[charmonman]

12 hours ago, canuckamuck said:

I think Trudeau's Liberal party is liberal just as the name implies.

 

How about this from the encyclopedia of economics? 

 

Yes, Trudeau is a liberal and a Liberal. Personally, I don't have a problem with that. He's doing what he can to save NAFTA which is a benefit to all three countries, even though Trump can't see it for ideological reasons that have nothing to do with facts.

 

The article you quote is written by libertarian writer Sheldon Richman who tries to smear the word "socialist" by making a specious association between it and fascism. You can make an argument that there are some superficial similarities in economic policies between socialist and fascist thinkers. However, one of the main characteristics of fascism is an extreme form of nationalism (sometimes but not always straying into outright racism), not something one usually associates with "international" socialism. It would actually make more sense to call Trump a fascist, but I won't go there.

 

You can criticize socialism all you want with rational arguments, but doing so by saying it is somehow the same as fascism just doesn't pass the smell test.

 

Apologies to the admins for straying from the topic, but I wanted to respond.

Edited February 1, 2018 by charmonman
addition

[canuckamuck]

My last point on this too and you all can get back to Trudeau and Nafta: There is some very obvious history about how socialism easily becomes fascism but I don't recall any fascists getting into power while declaring themselves to be conservative.