Me No Ingrish: Travel blogger’s offensive post generalizing Thais sparks conversation

[Odysseus123]

3 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

It would make me happy.

I am sure that it would.

 

As you have added an extra sentence I shall respond by urging you to talk to TAT on this subject.They may or may not agree with you.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Odysseus123

[bkkcanuck8]

Just now, Odysseus123 said:

I am sure that it would.

There are way too much tourists in Thailand, and it high levels of tourism often take a toll.  Most people I knew who would plan travel to countries like France / Italy etc. would buy a language book and try to learn important phrases to get by in day to day journeys.  I have gone to restaurants (Michelin starred) where staff don't speak english.  Now it seems snowflakes rule and everyone has to bend to their whims, speak their language.

[Russell17au]

There is a lot simpler way to solve the problem and that is to use your phone.

With iPhone, iPad, Android phones all you have to do is download Google translate and then it does not metter where you go you can communicate with people of different nationalities

[Odysseus123]

6 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

There is a lot simpler way to solve the problem and that is to use your phone.

With iPhone, iPad, Android phones all you have to do is download Google translate and then it does not metter where you go you can communicate with people of different nationalities

No..no..ban 'em all.When they arrive by the jumbo load just bark at 'em (in Thai)
"Okay, you 'orrible farang lot-hand over your wallets!" and if they do not comply immediately then ship 'em right back.

 

With the added proviso that they are never,ever, to discuss any of this on the internet.

Edited February 2, 2018 by Odysseus123

[wavemanwww]

B

[Russell17au]

7 minutes ago, Odysseus123 said:

No..no..ban 'em all.When they arrive by the jumbo load just bark at 'em (in Thai)
"Okay, you 'orrible farang lot-hand over your wallets!" and if they do not comply immediately then ship 'em right back.

 

With the added proviso that they are never,ever, to discuss any of this on the internet.

No let them in and give then all bkkcanuck8's address so they can all go and stay with him, he loves all the tourists just don't let then come northeast

[bkkcanuck8]

8 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

No let them in and give then all bkkcanuck8's address so they can all go and stay with him, he loves all the tourists just don't let then come northeast

I know have guards that stay awake at night.... they will keep them out ... 

 

But yes, I do have a dislike towards many tourists - everywhere not just Thailand - who travel to a country and don't try to adapt to local culture / norms... basically Disneyland type tourists.  

Edited February 2, 2018 by bkkcanuck8

[Odysseus123]

6 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

No let them in and give then all bkkcanuck8's address so they can all go and stay with him, he loves all the tourists just don't let then come northeast

Actually the Northeast part where I lived had quite a thriving little tourist industry way back in 2011-places like Chong Mek,and Khon Jiam are just ghost towns now.

 

A bit sad really because I really loved that part of the region and over the border to Pakse and on to Hue.Wonderful journey.

[Grumpy Duck]

I would have preferred the article actually posted or directly quoted, I don't usually respond to "he said she said" type reporting, but this article seems to show a stereotypical biased view. 

 

I have lived in S Korea, W Germany, (Frankfurt), A month in Japan, (1972?) and heard the same unfounded statements about each by the same type biased individuals. 

 

Personally, I have only been here 3 years, I seldom go to tourist trap areas, I have found the Thai people to be the most honest (on average) of all. 

I remember an occasion where I forgot my card in an ATM a person followed me into a store to return it to me. 

 

I use Microsoft Translate often, the people in my neighborhood speak to me in Thai slowly trying to teach me to learn Thai. 

 

I have seen so many people in the US make the comment "You're in the USA, Speak English". I have never heard a Thai use a similar phrase, (but, I cannot speak Thai)

 

[jak2002003]

1 hour ago, Russell17au said:

I'm Australian, but there are many nationalities that come here that do not speak English.

I think you will find that the biggest tourist groups that come to Thailand at the moment are Chinese and they do not speak English, so the Thais who work in the tourist industry should be made to speak that language.

This is Thailand and the language here is Thai.

Yes. I don't see what you are on about really.  Sorry.

 

When I go to the immigration office... there are very few Chinese people there... mostly farangs.  The common language between all the nationalities is English.

 

As for the tourists places.... you are correct about the growing number of Chinese tourists.  So of course the Thai people working in the tourist industry should learn some Chinese... and English for the other tourists as part of their job.

 

I want to make it clear to you I am not talking about the general Thai population!  They don't need to speak English, Chinese or any other language.  But, its just common sense that people applying to work in jobs which involve working with large numbers of foreigners need to be able to communicate with there customers!!!!

[Jonah Tenner]

1 hour ago, Russell17au said:

This is Thailand and the language here is Thai.

If they want tourists to come and enjoy their stay, they should make an effort to be able to communicate in a language the tourists understand, be that Mandarin, Spanish, Arabic, Urdu, Hindi or English. I know of no one who travels on a three or four week holiday who starts out by learning the language of their destination.

[Thian]

3 hours ago, Krataiboy said:

But name me any holiday destination on the planet which has improved since it became more popular.

Singapore

[Thian]

26 minutes ago, jak2002003 said:

When I go to the immigration office... there are very few Chinese people there... mostly farangs.  The common language between all the nationalities is English.

 

 

Yup but even the staff at the immigration can't speak english...so i need to bring my wife who has a busy job and needs to take a day off for that.

[bkkcanuck8]

10 minutes ago, Thian said:

 

Yup but even the staff at the immigration can't speak english...so i need to bring my wife who has a busy job and needs to take a day off for that.

Immigration staff in Samut Prakan seem to do fine.... even if the demand is not high....  I guess your area is just not a priority.

[Thian]

1 minute ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

Immigration staff in Samut Prakan seem to do fine.... even if the demand is not high....  I guess your area is just not a priority.

It's all in the big apple, if they can't speak a word english in the Isan it's another story but i see skycrapers everywhere.

 

An immigrationoffice where the staff can't speak a word english, that sounds pretty much 3rd world to me...

[bkkcanuck8]

4 minutes ago, Thian said:

It's all in the big apple, if they can't speak a word english in the Isan it's another story but i see skycrapers everywhere.

 

An immigrationoffice where the staff can't speak a word english, that sounds pretty much 3rd world to me...

I am visualizing an immigration office in the United States speaking German.... nope... cannot visualize.... don't want no non-english speaking immigrants anyways   Dam foreigners should learn the language 

[Thian]

1 minute ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

I am visualizing an immigration office in the United States speaking German.... nope... cannot visualize.... don't want no non-english speaking immigrants anyways   Dam foreigners should learn the language 

Of course an immigration doesn't need to speak english, also 5* hotels not, or policemen or nurses or security or airport staff....and sure not in a country which is very proud to get 30 million tourists a year and is the hub of everything and anything...nope, english is not necessary...

 

Even thai pilots from Air asia don't need to speak english, they do it though, even long stories through the speakers from which i can't understand a word but it must all be my fault because nobody in the plane can't be bothered......except that one lady which was sitting next to me during a flight writing in a map about the flight..she was from the qualitycontrol and agreed with me that the pilots english was not up to standard since she also couldn't understand a word of it.

[bkkcanuck8]

1 minute ago, Thian said:

Of course an immigration doesn't need to speak english, also 5* hotels not, or policemen or nurses or security or airport staff....and sure not in a country which is very proud to get 30 million tourists a year and is the hub of everything and anything...nope, english is not necessary...

 

And yet most of those 30 million (and growing) tourists seem to get by.... there is limited supply of fully bilingual people....  not everyone in all public facing industries is going to have.... when someone is applying and stating they know English - if the owner does not have the ability to fully vet it.  

 

When I first started coming here I stayed at the Mayfair Marriott mostly (4*) and they had enough English speaking staff.  Don't think I ever had an issue at the Shangri-La or the Oriental Hotel.  

[Russell17au]

jak2002003

Because they are working for tourists and internationals, and the common languages used to communicate between them is usually English.  

This is what you said.

This is incorrect.

The top ten countries that visit Thailand as tourists

China, Malaysia, Korea, Loas, Japan, India, Russia, USA, Singapore and UK

it is not until you get to the eighth country that you find an English speaking country.

You are in Thailand and the language here is Thai and there are plenty of ways that you can communicate with Thais if you want to and I am not talking about learning the Thai language.

No other country in the world forces there staff in the tourist areas to speak English or in the English speaking countries to speak any other language

So what language do you expect them to learn to be able to communicate with their customers because the majority of their customers do not speak English.

You are chopping and changing your story because you were talking about tourist areas but know you have changed it to include Thia immigration offices

[Thian]

13 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

No other country in the world forces there staff in the tourist areas to speak English or in the English speaking countries to speak any other language

I bet you have never been to Europe mate! I'm not sure but i think it's even a law (maybe unwritten) that in 5* hotels in Europe the staff speaks english...and so does the police, airportstaff, security, immigration, ambulance, rescueservice and so on......

[bkkcanuck8]

2 minutes ago, Thian said:

I bet you have never been to Europe mate! I'm not sure but i think it's even a law (maybe unwritten) that in 5* hotels in Europe the staff speaks english...and so does the police, airportstaff, security, immigration, ambulance, rescueservice and so on......

I guess the first question is which 5* hotel has nobody that speaks basic english?

[laislica]

8 hours ago, sanemax said:

9 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

Er, sorry.

So i'm a Thai on holiday in London, and complain that taxi drivers, mall staff and police can't/don't speak Thai???

Let's do the above with a German, French person or Italian who comes to London on holiday without being able to speak English....

And have a good moan that the taxi driver couldn't speak German, French or Italian...

 Sheesh, some people...

Reminds me of an English guy in my local market town in Nakon Nowhere complaining about the lack of English speakers amongst the shop keepers. "They'd get so much more business".... Yeah right...

English is the International language though , its the language that two people who cannot speak the same language speak in

 

Spot on.

All young Thai people who went to school, were taught English!

 

Also, look at how many English words have been incorporated into the Thai language.

They even have a character which means that the consonant below should not be spoken, it is provided for reasons of clarity only..

This character is very common with foreign words that are 'sounded out' in Thai. For instance, you'll see it in a word like cartoon การ์ตูน. The "r" is silent.

(We have it in English too with words like "listen" but we don't have anything that tells the speaker not to pronounce the t..)

 

A few days ago, my Thai wife and I, along with three of her friends were in Samut Songkran for a day out.

We take our m/c's to the train station and enjoy a train ride for 9Baht each way.

(One on the lovely things to do that someone asked Chickenlegs)

 

When we were returning we say several Chinese looking folk also waiting at the train station.

I asked where they were from (in English) Taiwan they said.

Then we started a conversation about their holiday and Thailand/Taiwan.

We met several of them and they all spoke English and much better than my Mandarin I must say.

I did start to learn it using some fantastic American books in the Mirror Series.

It had Chinese with Romanised pronunciation but learning to read a dictionary was hell.

Chinese words are made with a collection of strokes, there is no alphabet, therefore, you have to know how many strokes are in the word you want to look up!

No wonder we joke that the Chinese are very clever!

 

I used to work in Taiwan 50 odd years ago and I can tell you that English comprehension even back then was very good and especially good in tourist areas, (not that there were many then), Hotels, bars, the airport etc..

 

Same story wherever I have worked, Penang, Saudi, Germany, Belgium, Holland, France, Spain Nigeria, even the Muricans speak a sort of English LOL.

The funnest thing is to see two Chinese from vastly different provinces using Chinglish to communicate.

I've been a resident in Spain for many years and there it was essential to learn the language because I choose a spot on the coast with very little "Kiss me Quick"  type of tourism.

Tourists where we live are generally Spanish.

 

Learning to read and write Thai is also quite easy, if you sign up to the right course.

However, all you know is an alphabet and the tone that a particular word should be spoken with.

A bit like landing in Spain, I could read Spanish, not very well but I didn't understand a word of what I read!

 

I imagine that many of the long term expats who post on TVF are not tourists as such and have not made the effort to learn Thai because they live in an expat area and/or have a wife or g/f who takes care of them. Can go to big Malls and buy expat food etc.

I see nothing wrong with this either.

They have retired here and have set themselves up in a way that suits them.

Their pensions are adding to the Thai economy, and because of their personal setup, they can go where ever they want, when they want etc, they have their significant other taking care of the logistics!

A fabulous way to live and I applaud them!

 

When we are in Thailand, my wife is my main interface to Thai people, though I am getting better with the local dialect.

When in Spain, I'm  the interface to the Spanish for my wife.

Perfectly balanced and win win.

 

In my opinion, many Thai's do speak some English but (face), they are often too shy to try.

It's a fundamental part of Thai culture not to lose face and foreigners need to learn and accept that.

 

We live in a moobahn in the middle of nowhere.

My wife has made friends with some of the ladies who stay at home fore various reasons.

She was always round at their houses and they seldom visited our house.

Why? Maybe because there was a Farang there?

 

However, slowly, over time, we have all got to know each other a little and the shyness has gone.

They even dare to speak a little English!

(Perhaps because my Thai is so bad LOL)

 

If Thailand wants tourism then Thailand needs to take that revenue source more seriously.

They need to educate those in the Tourist Industry to a much higher standard.

Safety and cleanliness standards should be applied to all tourist accommodation.

They should consider the safety of the tourist as a first priority.

Electricity in Thailand is the same as the rest of the world - it kills.

I was told by a Thai electrician that nothing needs to be earthed in Thailand because - Thai electricity is different!

Tthat the diagram on the Safe-Tee-Cut breaker was wrong to show an earth connection.

 

So this thread has many who just dismiss the comments from a tourist and tells them that they are "Entitled"!

 

Well, Tourists are entitled, entitled to respect and a fair shake!

 

I bet that most tourists know that they will be offered tourist prices and they accept that.

A bit like the Farang prices that we are often asked to pay.

However, if someone feels that they are being blatantly ripped off, why should they be expected to suck it up?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[laislica]

1 hour ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

I am visualizing an immigration office in the United States speaking German.... nope... cannot visualize.... don't want no non-english speaking immigrants anyways   Dam foreigners should learn the language 

 

Have you missed the point?

 

English is THE international language.

Not German, Spanish or anything else.

ENGLISH!

 

I get by with Tinglish here and and Spanglish when I'm home.

 

Travel to anywhere in the world and you will find some locals who are willing to speak English.

 

The point here is that Thais are not willing to speak English incase they get it wrong and lose face!

 

 

[MrY]

20 hours ago, chippendale said:

To whiny, entitled tourists:

 

This is Thailand. A foreign country (!) Thai is the language spoken here. This is not England or Americuuhhh. Learn some Thai while visiting Thailand. It shows decency and respect. How many languages apart from your mother tongue do you speak? None, probably. And then I bet you can't even write your mother tongue properly and speak with a dodgy provincial accent.

 

Enjoy your stay in Thailand. And try not to make a fool of yourself.

 

If you want to travel the World, best you learn the language. The language is English.

 

If you want to serve the travelers, best you learn the language. The language is English.

 

I don't have a preference one way or another, but that is the language of tourism the World over where international tourism is prevalent. (Yes, there are exceptions too.) It just happens to be so [for now]. Maybe in the decades or centuries to come it will be another language.

 

Mandatory Disclaimer: I do speak other languages than English, several of them fluently. I consider my Thai rudimentary (as I never studied it properly) but I do get complimented for it sometimes.

[Russell17au]

My Thai wife was never taught English at school and her 14 year old daughter is not being taught English at school, it appears that there are only a few schools actually teaching English and from what I can gather they are only high schools which to me is stupid because they already have the Thai language instilled into their brains, they should be teaching it in primary schools where it will instill into the young brain easier

[MrY]

So many commentators that read the original blog post had a more agreeable view that I had to read it. And I can't find much fault in it. I then spent an hour reading the comments below the blog...

 

First of all, he did what tourists do. He visited tourist destinations. That is after all how most tourists first arrive in Thailand. And he had an experience shared by many, many others. (No, your own exceptionally good experience in Thailand does not make it any less so.) He obviously didn't put in his "study time" before coming to Thailand, but who does? A country as flaunted as Thailand should be no hassles, right? Anyway, Thailand was just supposed to be a quick-and-easy party stopover on the way to NZ.

 

A lot of the commenters shared his experiences, others sailed through without a glitch. Here's what I found;

 

- A lot of people wholeheartedly agreed due to their own experiences

 

- Odd "Who throws a shoe?" "Who buys second hand shoes?" comments

 

- It's your own fault for visiting touristy locations. It is so much better here in Nakhon Nowhere. (See page 64 in the Amazing Thailand brochure)

 

- A surprising number of commenters had lived years in Thailand and chose to leave. (At least I found it surprising there was so many. OTOH, those who leave probably don't much contribute to Thaivisa any more either.)

 

- You were unlucky, sorry to hear you had such a bad experience. We had a wonderful time.

 

- "Good riddance." This doesn't seem too good a recommendation for such a large number of tourists having these problems in Thailand. Then again Service Counter is commonly called "Counter Service" here, so bugger off!

 

Anyway, read the original. The writer is very careful to point out he is unhappy with tourism industry only, and his experiences could just have been the luck of the draw and need not apply to everyone.

[bkkcanuck8]

16 minutes ago, Russell17au said:

My Thai wife was never taught English at school and her 14 year old daughter is not being taught English at school, it appears that there are only a few schools actually teaching English and from what I can gather they are only high schools which to me is stupid because they already have the Thai language instilled into their brains, they should be teaching it in primary schools where it will instill into the young brain easier

My french language courses (when I was young) started in junior high (in PEI - may have started earlier in PEI but I was not there during primary school), and in high school in Ontario.  It is now taught earlier.  If you live in a region where the dominant language is let's say in this case English - you end up going to school and the kids for the most part don't take much interest in language class - just enough to pass... The spoken /written language at home is the dominant language (typically), the schooling takes a break for months and the kids forget most of it -- the next year you end up reteaching a lot of it and maybe adding a little more.  The kid graduates and promptly forgets it.  Even if they do remember it they don't speak it but maybe able to understand written form.  So you typically will have a small pool of bilingual people.  Add to the mix that there are now other important languages other than English and you may have the option to learn a second language and it may not be English.  

 

So now you have a small pool of good english students to draw from.  Those students that excelled in English might have other interests -- and are likely better generally.  They go on to University and learn medicine (English/Japanese/German are important medical languages - especially for research) or computer science or international law etc.  That pool of talented English speakers have now dwindled.  The ones that were not good students may end up in less skilled jobs like retail, driving taxis, driving ambulances, etc.  

 

I have travelled a lot to many countries, 1st world and not -- and once you leave the confines of top hotel chains - the likelihood of having good english speakers will drop -- especially in retail.  

 

Thailand the dominant language and only real language with legal weight is Thai.  English might be used widely because of colonial past or economic weight -- and it may be a standard language for things like pilots (which have to have a standard language to speak to air traffic control) -- but other than that it's ownly importance is based on the might of the economies that have it as their primary language.  With both the UK and the US turning inwards -- the dominance of English is likely at it's peak and will only fade over time.  

 

In Summary, if you are going to visit or live here (and go to immigration) .... learn Thai... expecting everyone else to be able to speak English competently ... is a little arrogant....  not even better schooling will change things in the short/mid term -- and long term English ... may not be important either ... maybe Mandarin since the US seems to be wanting to destroy any diplomatic credibility it has built up in the past.

[isaanbanhou]

My wife will complete an honours degree in English within the next 3 months.  Probably one of the better expenses I have had here in LOS,  it has improved her self confidence and certainly makes our life's easier.

 

What I find surprising is that so few of her classmates make much effort outside of class.  It appears to me that Thais would prefer not to make a mistake and lose face than take a chance and learn something.   

[laislica]

32 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

My french language courses (when I was young) started in junior high (in PEI - may have started earlier in PEI but I was not there during primary school), and in high school in Ontario.  It is now taught earlier.  If you live in a region where the dominant language is let's say in this case English - you end up going to school and the kids for the most part don't take much interest in language class - just enough to pass... The spoken /written language at home is the dominant language (typically), the schooling takes a break for months and the kids forget most of it -- the next year you end up reteaching a lot of it and maybe adding a little more.  The kid graduates and promptly forgets it.  Even if they do remember it they don't speak it but maybe able to understand written form.  So you typically will have a small pool of bilingual people.  Add to the mix that there are now other important languages other than English and you may have the option to learn a second language and it may not be English.  

 

So now you have a small pool of good english students to draw from.  Those students that excelled in English might have other interests -- and are likely better generally.  They go on to University and learn medicine (English/Japanese/German are important medical languages - especially for research) or computer science or international law etc.  That pool of talented English speakers have now dwindled.  The ones that were not good students may end up in less skilled jobs like retail, driving taxis, driving ambulances, etc.  

 

I have travelled a lot to many countries, 1st world and not -- and once you leave the confines of top hotel chains - the likelihood of having good english speakers will drop -- especially in retail.  

 

Thailand the dominant language and only real language with legal weight is Thai.  English might be used widely because of colonial past or economic weight -- and it may be a standard language for things like pilots (which have to have a standard language to speak to air traffic control) -- but other than that it's ownly importance is based on the might of the economies that have it as their primary language.  With both the UK and the US turning inwards -- the dominance of English is likely at it's peak and will only fade over time.  

 

In Summary, if you are going to visit or live here (and go to immigration) .... learn Thai... expecting everyone else to be able to speak English competently ... is a little arrogant....  not even better schooling will change things in the short/mid term -- and long term English ... may not be important either ... maybe Mandarin since the US seems to be wanting to destroy any diplomatic credibility it has built up in the past.

Whilst what you say is mainly true.

The subject here is Tourism not long termers.....

Or have I misunderstood?
Are you saying that any visitors to any country should learn that countries language before they visit?
You said "In Summary, if you are going to visit or live here (and go to immigration) .... learn Thai...".

 

The current international tourism language is English so until that changes...

I think that Thais would be well advised to ramp up their English language skills,

or not, if they have no interest in tourist cash.

 

 

[bkkcanuck8]

13 minutes ago, laislica said:

Whilst what you say is mainly true.

The subject here is Tourism not long termers.....

Or have I misunderstood?
Are you saying that any visitors to any country should learn that countries language before they visit?
You said "In Summary, if you are going to visit or live here (and go to immigration) .... learn Thai...".

 

The current international tourism language is English so until that changes...

I think that Thais would be well advised to ramp up their English language skills,

or not, if they have no interest in tourist cash.

 

 

A bit of both.  English ability has improved overall... but for all the complaints that it is needed for tourism.... apparently not since tourist numbers year after year after year have dramatically risen.  I have never stayed in a hotel in main tourist areas in Thailand that did not have at least one person that could communicate in English as needed.  You can get from the airport into town.  You can order from a menu -- for the most part.  You can order from DQ by pointing.  Most tourists spend time talking to other tourists who speak the same language.  Retailers have products on display, can talk in numbers.  And while taxi drivers are problematic, most will understand major destinations.  When they don't understand -- my bet is they don't want to understand -- because they don't want to go there.  If you take a taxi from a hotel -- I had no problem telling someone at a hotel where I needed to go and they would be able to talk to taxis etc.  Hotels in tourist places can also arrange other tourism related things as well.  Most people know that Thailand is not an english speaking country and they know that somethings might not always go smoothly etc.  Most seasoned tourists will know to ignore touts.  Immigration services -- entry exit have enough english.  Immigration staff typically have no problems understanding enough english for extensions (extension- hand form - give money done).  Maybe not all flop houses will have English staff - but I have never stayed anywhere where they did not have sufficient english knowledge available.  Basically, I fail to see how it is as important an issue as some on here indicate.