Israel issues deportation notices to African migrants

[dexterm]

19 minutes ago, sanemax said:

I thought that you were thoroughly against people from one continent , going to illegally settle in another Continent on other peoples land .

  As you oppose Europeans going to settle on Arab lands , I would have thought that you would also oppose Africans going to live on Arab lands as well , so you would support the removal of the Africans back to their African land ?

The OP African refugees have not escaped to Israel with the intention of setting up their own country by dispossessing the resident population.

 

Nice try at a troll bait, but no cigar.

[sanemax]

6 minutes ago, dexterm said:

The OP African refugees have not escaped to Israel with the intention of setting up their own country by dispossessing the resident population.

 

Nice try at a troll bait, but no cigar.

But they want to go and live in that Country .

Do you agree with them and support them?

[metisdead]

Off topic posts and replies have been removed. 

[Air Smiles]

1 hour ago, dexterm said:

Even Alan Dershowitz the arch defender of Israel has taken the government to task.

“The whiff of racism can’t be avoided when you have a situation where 40,000 people of color are the ones who are being deported en masse, without being individualized and every single case considered on its merits,” the Harvard law professor told ILTV Daily recently.

 

While even a stopped clock can be right twice per day, it's hard to believe an ardent Zionist like Dershowitz is being entirely genuine and not just concerned about, for eg, an increase in cost for services and manual labour.

 

Who knows maybe he is becoming soft in his old age...

[Scott]

A post with misinformation has been removed.  

[Thorgal]

A post with misinformation has been removed.  

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/as-europe-takes-in-migrants-israel-tries-to-keep-them-out/

 

 

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Quote from link:

 

“With hundreds of thousands of refugees pouring across the borders of the European Union, German Chancellor Angela Merkel announced a landmark change in policy last month: Germany would begin to accept Syrian refugees, no matter how they got there.

 

Four days later, Israeli Interior Minister Silvan Shalom made a statement on the same topic, but with a different tone: Israel would do everything possible, he said, to remove migrants from its borders.”

 

[Scott]

20 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/as-europe-takes-in-migrants-israel-tries-to-keep-them-out/

 

 

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Quote from link:

 

“With hundreds of thousands of refugees pouring across the borders of the European Union, German Chancellor Angela Merkel announced a landmark change in policy last month: Germany would begin to accept Syrian refugees, no matter how they got there.

 

Four days later, Israeli Interior Minister Silvan Shalom made a statement on the same topic, but with a different tone: Israel would do everything possible, he said, to remove migrants from its borders.”

 

What does Syrian refugees have to do with migrants from Africa?

 

Please stay on topic. 

[sanemax]

31 minutes ago, Thorgal said:

 

https://www.timesofisrael.com/as-europe-takes-in-migrants-israel-tries-to-keep-them-out/

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app

 

Quote from link:

“With hundreds of thousands of refugees pouring across the borders of the European Union, German Chancellor Angela Merkel announced a landmark change in policy last month: Germany would begin to accept Syrian refugees, no matter how they got there.

Four days later, Israeli Interior Minister Silvan Shalom made a statement on the same topic, but with a different tone: Israel would do everything possible, he said, to remove migrants from its borders.”

 

That report is from 2015, Germany are now taking measures to return those refugees back to Syria

[Thorgal]

What does Syrian refugees have to do with migrants from Africa?
 
Please stay on topic. 

Both are not welcomed in Israel for any form of asylum.

As explained earlier, refugees, migrants and/or infiltrants are pointed by Israel to go to Europe through the Dublin regulations.

From OP:

“We would like to inform you that the state of Israel has signed agreements allowing you to leave Israel for a safe third country that will absorb you and give you a residency visa that will allow you to work in that country, and promises not to remove you to your country of origin," the letter read, according to Haaretz.”


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[Scott]

There is nothing in the linked articles about Syrian Refugees.   The topic is about African asylum seekers being sent to Uganda and Rwanda.  

 

Please stay on topic.   There are plenty of threads about Germany and Syria.  

[halloween]

8 hours ago, dexterm said:

You're the one making the assertion; you're the one who should offer proof, not the old falacy of asking someone to prove a negative.

 

About 60,000 refugees mostly from Eritrea and Sudan, fleeing persecution and the wars there crossed Israel’s border with Egypt before Israel erected a fence.

 

Maybe you have interviewed them yourself, because Israel has only managed successfully to process 1% of applications so far, but that's enough for them to turn away all the remaining refugees. Another shameful irony of history.
 
 "But some have lived for years in Israel and many work in low-paying jobs that many Israelis shun. The country has granted asylum to fewer than one per cent of those who have applied and has a years-long backlog of applicants."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-issues-deportation-notices-african-refugees-benjamin-netanyahu-a8194306.html

 

Try reading your link again. Your claim that Israel has processed 1% of applications is NOT stated, but your quote supports the claim that 99% are not genuine refugees, at least by Israeli standards.

[dexterm]

42 minutes ago, halloween said:

Try reading your link again. Your claim that Israel has processed 1% of applications is NOT stated, but your quote supports the claim that 99% are not genuine refugees, at least by Israeli standards.

So how do you and Israel arrive at the figure that 99% are not genuine refugees when the link I provided stated that there's a  years-long backlog of applicants to be processed

...that's some crystal ball gazing!

I think the fact that the refugees are mainly people of color may give you a clue as to Israel's incredible powers of clairvoyance. 

Edited February 5, 2018 by dexterm

[halloween]

10 minutes ago, dexterm said:

So how do you and Israel arrive at the figure that 99% are not genuine refugees when the link I provided stated that there's a  years-long backlog of applicants to be processed

...that's some crystal ball gazing!

I think the fact that the refugees are mainly people of color may give you a clue as to Israel's incredible powers of clairvoyance. Now if they were from Norway...

I didn't arrive at a figure, I pointed out that Israeli statistics support it. Nor do I make unsupported claims about unprocessed applications - I'll leave that to you.

BTW if they were Norwegian jews you may have a point. OTOH I see no reason why any country should rush to verify the claims of asylum seekers, especially when initial processing indicates less than 1% meet the standard set.

[dexterm]

44 minutes ago, halloween said:

I didn't arrive at a figure, I pointed out that Israeli statistics support it. Nor do I make unsupported claims about unprocessed applications - I'll leave that to you.

BTW if they were Norwegian jews you may have a point. OTOH I see no reason why any country should rush to verify the claims of asylum seekers, especially when initial processing indicates less than 1% meet the standard set.

Alas, not being present to interview the refugees myself I rely on news feeds in this case the Independent UK..perhaps you question that as a reliable source. Up2u. I don't.

 

"The country has granted asylum to fewer than one per cent of those who have applied and has a years-long backlog of applicants."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-issues-deportation-notices-african-refugees-benjamin-netanyahu-a8194306.html

 

You say that initial processing indicates less than 1% meet the standard set....whatever Israel's dubious set standard is when the country's PM has already prejudged them all, as you seem to have done, and labelled them all as infiltrators not refugees.

 

So that aside, you are saying all Israel needs do is interview a few refugees, ignore their individual cases, just use any sample, extrapolate and generalize from that and treat all these human beings who have fled war, torture and death as mere ciphers. That's what this whole issue is about...treating people in need simply as dehumanized statistics. That's a travesty of the whole refugee process.

 

Just imagine if Europe and the USA had treated Jews fleeing the Holocaust like that...we've decided without interviewing them that statistically they are infiltrating economic migrants (and ...we're not racists but...well, you know, they are sort of different from us) who will upset our demographics. Send them back where they came from or somewhere else. 

Just a minute...they did treat them like that!

 

I'm glad you don't work for UNHCR

Edited February 5, 2018 by dexterm

[Thorgal]

There is nothing in the linked articles about Syrian Refugees.   The topic is about African asylum seekers being sent to Uganda and Rwanda.     Please stay on topic.   There are plenty of threads about Germany and Syria.  

 

 

 Uganda and Rwanda deny to have signed any agreement with Israel to host the African migrants transiting from Israel...

 

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018/01/rwanda-uganda-deny-israel-deal-host-africa-migrants-180106144707950.html

 

 

 

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[simple1]

3 hours ago, sanemax said:

That report is from 2015, Germany are now taking measures to return those refugees back to Syria

When it is safe to do so.

 

http://abcnews.go.com/International/wireStory/german-president-moving-troops-jordan-choice-52679293

[halloween]

1 hour ago, dexterm said:

Alas, not being present to interview the refugees myself I rely on news feeds in this case the Independent UK..perhaps you question that as a reliable source. Up2u. I don't.

 

"The country has granted asylum to fewer than one per cent of those who have applied and has a years-long backlog of applicants."
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/israel-issues-deportation-notices-african-refugees-benjamin-netanyahu-a8194306.html

 

You say that initial processing indicates less than 1% meet the standard set....whatever Israel's dubious set standard is when the country's PM has already prejudged them all, as you seem to have done, and labelled them all as infiltrators not refugees.

 

So that aside, you are saying all Israel needs do is interview a few refugees, ignore their individual cases, just use any sample, extrapolate and generalize from that and treat all these human beings who have fled war, torture and death as mere ciphers. That's what this whole issue is about...treating people in need simply as dehumanized statistics. That's a travesty of the whole refugee process.

 

Just imagine if Europe and the USA had treated Jews fleeing the Holocaust like that...we've decided without interviewing them that statistically they are infiltrating economic migrants (and ...we're not racists but...well, you know, they are sort of different from us) who will upset our demographics. Send them back where they came from or somewhere else. 

Just a minute...they did treat them like that!

 

I'm glad you don't work for UNHCR

You seem intent on extrapolating my accurate reading of your quote to attribute to me attitudes I do not hold, while inaccurately drawing conclusions from that quote. Do you have some anti-Israeli bias affecting your clear interpretation of statements?

Other countries have long back-logs of processing the applications of asylum seekers, most of whom are illegal immigrants, who then use the time taken to process their claim as some sort of defence "we have been here for years." I fully agree that any illegal immigrant should be removed expeditiously or incarcerated, what else would you do with foreign criminals?

 

BTW I am also quite glad that I don't work for the UNHCR.

[F4UCorsair]

I understand Israel's position entirely, and some people are just too different from Israel's population to assimilate.  It's not different skin color, but a whole range of personality traits, and greater percentages lacking a basic education,  that set them apart from other populations.  Sure there will be the occasional refugee surgeon or engineer, but mostly they are base working class with little to offer a host country, except a propensity for sponging on the welfare system.   Most countries have enough of that type in their home grown populations already.

 

I wish Australia's governments since the 1980's had been a little more discriminating.

Edited February 5, 2018 by F4UCorsair

[simple1]

1 hour ago, F4UCorsair said:

I understand Israel's position entirely, and some people are just too different from Israel's population to assimilate.  It's not different skin color, but a whole range of personality traits, and greater percentages lacking a basic education,  that set them apart from other populations.  Sure there will be the occasional refugee surgeon or engineer, but mostly they are base working class with little to offer a host country, except a propensity for sponging on the welfare system.   Most countries have enough of that type in their home grown populations already.

 

I wish Australia's governments since the 1980's had been a little more discriminating.

Don't what the current numbers are, but back in 2014 there were more illegal overstayers in Israel than Etrians and Sudanese asylum seekers. 

 

individuals travelling on a tourist visa beyond the date of expiration (around 90,000), 61% of whom are from the former Soviet Union

 

What do the two groups currently receive by way of government support, may have changed, but in 2014 it was severely limited.

 

not allow them access to formal work permits, health care or welfare services. Asylum seekers are stuck in a legal limbo; while being allowed to remain in the country, they lack access to basic services in order to survive, advance, and integrate.

 

http://assaf.org.il/en/content/introduction-refugees-and-asylum-seekers-israel

 

 

[sanemax]

12 minutes ago, simple1 said:

Don't what the current numbers are, but back in 2014 there were more illegal overstayers in Israel than Etrians and Sudanese asylum seekers. 

 

individuals travelling on a tourist visa beyond the date of expiration (around 90,000), 61% of whom are from the former Soviet Union

 

What do the two groups currently receive by way of government support, may have changed, but in 2014 it was severely limited.

 

not allow them access to formal work permits, health care or welfare services. Asylum seekers are stuck in a legal limbo; while being allowed to remain in the country, they lack access to basic services in order to survive, advance, and integrate.

 

http://assaf.org.il/en/content/introduction-refugees-and-asylum-seekers-israel

 

 

I cannot understand what you are trying to say

[dexterm]

4 hours ago, halloween said:

You seem intent on extrapolating my accurate reading of your quote to attribute to me attitudes I do not hold, while inaccurately drawing conclusions from that quote. Do you have some anti-Israeli bias affecting your clear interpretation of statements?

Other countries have long back-logs of processing the applications of asylum seekers, most of whom are illegal immigrants, who then use the time taken to process their claim as some sort of defence "we have been here for years." I fully agree that any illegal immigrant should be removed expeditiously or incarcerated, what else would you do with foreign criminals?

 

BTW I am also quite glad that I don't work for the UNHCR.

>>I fully agree that any illegal immigrant should be removed expeditiously or incarcerated, what else would you do with foreign criminals?

...err...offer them protection while you process their application if you are a signatory to the 1951 refugee Convention, as Israel is.

 

But if you were a racist, and they are black, you'd deport them against their will to a country that apparently doesnt want them to be robbed, killed or trafficked.

 

But if they were white or Jewish, you'd keep them.

 

Edited February 6, 2018 by dexterm

[halloween]

7 minutes ago, dexterm said:

>>I fully agree that any illegal immigrant should be removed expeditiously or incarcerated, what else would you do with foreign criminals?

...err...offer them protection while you process their application if you are a signatory to the 1951 refugee Convention, as Israel is.

 

But if you were a racist, and they are black, you'd deport them against their will to a country that apparently doesnt want them to be robbed, killed or trafficked.

 

But if they were white or Jewish, you'd keep them.

 

Do you have any proof that those facing deportation haven't been processed and refugee status refused? you might like to read the thread about Italy. The Nigerian murderer was refused 2 years ago, and allowed to roam free knowing he would be deported.

 

BTW you continue to attribute to me views that I do not hold, and in an insulting manner. Preference for Jewish migration to Israel is that country's choice.

[car720]

These guys answer to their own agenda.  If they start doing it then others will be able to follow suit without fear of pc reprisals because nobody is game enough to criticize them.

[sanemax]

15 minutes ago, dexterm said:

 

But if they were white or Jewish, you'd keep them.

 

Jews have the right to remain in Israel , The Jewish state of Israel

[sanemax]

There should be villages built in the West bank, where the African migrants can go and live

[dexterm]

29 minutes ago, halloween said:

Do you have any proof that those facing deportation haven't been processed and refugee status refused? you might like to read the thread about Italy. The Nigerian murderer was refused 2 years ago, and allowed to roam free knowing he would be deported.

 

BTW you continue to attribute to me views that I do not hold, and in an insulting manner. Preference for Jewish migration to Israel is that country's choice.

"Though it is a signatory to the convention, Israel has only recognised eight Eritrean and two Sudanese asylum seekers as refugees since 2009, according to UNHCR. Two hundred Sudanese refugees from the Darfur region were also granted humanitarian status.

 

Israel has pressured asylum seekers and refugees to leave the country for years, through a series of restrictive laws, the threat of arrest and detention at the Holot prison [contrary to Israel's own Supreme court ruling], and limits on their movement and access to employment and education.

 

According to Rozen, the government has maintained a policy that aims to make life in Israel so unbearable for asylum seekers that they choose to leave on their own."

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/11/israel-pushes-deport-asylum-seekers-rwanda-171121125548203.html

 

I assumed you were using the generic, impersonal pronoun "you" in your question "what else would you do with foreign criminals?", so I replied in similar vein. Maybe better if you use the pronoun "one" in future to avoid confusion and hurt sensitivities.

[sanemax]

8 minutes ago, dexterm said:

"Though it is a signatory to the convention, Israel has only recognised eight Eritrean and two Sudanese asylum seekers as refugees since 2009, according to UNHCR. Two hundred Sudanese refugees from the Darfur region were also granted humanitarian status.

 

Israel has pressured asylum seekers and refugees to leave the country for years, through a series of restrictive laws, the threat of arrest and detention at the Holot prison [contrary to Israel's own Supreme court ruling], and limits on their movement and access to employment and education.

 

According to Rozen, the government has maintained a policy that aims to make life in Israel so unbearable for asylum seekers that they choose to leave on their own."

http://www.aljazeera.com/news/2017/11/israel-pushes-deport-asylum-seekers-rwanda-171121125548203.html

 

I assumed you were using the generic, impersonal pronoun "you" in your question "what else would you do with foreign criminals?", so I replied in similar vein. Maybe better if you use the pronoun "one" in future to avoid confusion and hurt sensitivities.

Sudan is now considered to be a safe Country and many Sudanese refugees are returning home .

Israel has no diplomatic ties with Sudan , so, ex refugees have to be sent to a neighbouring Country and they are given enough funds to return back to their homeland, Sudan

[dexterm]

59 minutes ago, sanemax said:

Jews have the right to remain in Israel , The Jewish state of Israel

Quite...and therein lies the irony and hypocrisy as these Holocaust survivors point out.

 

These Holocaust Survivors Warn of the Bleak Future Awaiting the Asylum Seekers Israel Plans to Deport
As protest swells and thousands of Israelis - including doctors, rabbis and academics - implore Netanyahu to stop plans to expel asylum seekers, some are prepared to hide refugees in their own homes.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-holocaust-survivors-join-israeli-backlash-against-refugee-expulsions-1.5766648

[sanemax]

7 minutes ago, dexterm said:

Quite...and therein lies the irony and hypocrisy as these Holocaust survivors point out.

 

These Holocaust Survivors Warn of the Bleak Future Awaiting the Asylum Seekers Israel Plans to Deport
As protest swells and thousands of Israelis - including doctors, rabbis and academics - implore Netanyahu to stop plans to expel asylum seekers, some are prepared to hide refugees in their own homes.

https://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-holocaust-survivors-join-israeli-backlash-against-refugee-expulsions-1.5766648

Now that their own Countries are safe , they can return home .

They can build a better Country for themselves , rather than expecting Israel to provide a better life for them

[meinphuket]

Splendid idea, now lets do the same in Europe,but to also include South Asians plus Middle and near Eastern types who have no business breaking our immigration laws.