oldlakey Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 4 hours ago, rockingrobin said: This fairness argument fails to evaluate that although the British citizen would have paid into the NHS longer than the immigrant, they have also benefitted longer. The actual ratio of payment to benefited ratio will be larger for the British citizen because they will have received the benefit of NHS throughout childhood and student life Yes thats a real surprise bearing in mind the Brit or their PARENTS could have paid in all their working lives Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fish Head Soup Posted February 6, 2018 Share Posted February 6, 2018 With working tax credits etc there is a huge number of working age Brits who have barely paid a penny to the NHS in their lives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlakey Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 6 hours ago, Fish Head Soup said: With working tax credits etc there is a huge number of working age Brits who have barely paid a penny to the NHS in their lives. Another reason the UK is such an attractive destination for economic immigrants Its called THE WELFARE STATE my good man 55555555 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simoh1490 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 On 05/02/2018 at 7:00 PM, oldlakey said: My reasons are my justification, everything needs to be paid for They are not paying TWICE for anything where do you get the idea that the NI payment or tax is for the NHS only The NHS is under a fair amount of pressure Build up a reservoir of money then draw out of the pot, until such time insurance is the way to go as far as the NHS is concerned Tax you get the use of the same benefits immediately as all other tax payers, security etc etc NI contributions will get you a pension if you make enough of them the minimum amount per year is not a tremendous amount of money even now Everything has to be paid for even the local council services, which you will either pay via rent or direct to the local council Move to a first world Nanny State and you can reap the benefits but at a price Are you living in Thailand but still registered in the UK for NHS and UK State Pension purposes, I seem to recall that is the case, which kinda destroys your argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baansgr Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 On 2/5/2018 at 3:41 PM, theoldgit said: An interesting slant, how do you actually justify people paying for the NHS service twice? Are suggesting that people, like a previous posters wife who's been living in the UK for a number of years and seems to be paying UK tax and making NI contributions should also pay for NHS treatment for the rest of her life because she's a foreigner? Ues i do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlakey Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 2 minutes ago, simoh1490 said: Are you living in Thailand but still registered in the UK for NHS and UK State Pension purposes, I seem to recall that is the case, which kinda destroys your argument. I have been receiving one of my pensions for 18+ years, the other not quite as long You seem to recall do you I hope you are not suggesting I have been less than honest with the UK authorities my good man The UK gov and the other agencies that need to be informed where at the appropriate time To put your mind at rest I have just filled in another life certificate its on its way no rush its got four months to get there As I used to tell the chaps in blue its in the post 55555555 My argument is based purely on economic realities I have been standing on my own two feet for what seems a period of time known as, Time Immemorial The NHS is creaking under the weight of expectation, but thats life I am afraid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simoh1490 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 8 minutes ago, oldlakey said: I have been receiving one of my pensions for 18+ years, the other not quite as long You seem to recall do you I hope you are not suggesting I have been less than honest with the UK authorities my good man The UK gov and the other agencies that need to be informed where at the appropriate time To put your mind at rest I have just filled in another life certificate its on its way no rush its got four months to get there As I used to tell the chaps in blue its in the post 55555555 My argument is based purely on economic realities I have been standing on my own two feet for what seems a period of time known as, Time Immemorial The NHS is creaking under the weight of expectation, but thats life I am afraid I am pleased to hear this, standing on ones own feet is a rare attribute these days, there are so few of us left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlakey Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 9 minutes ago, simoh1490 said: I am pleased to hear this, standing on ones own feet is a rare attribute these days, there are so few of us left. I only got you up to speed to help you recall the FACTS in the future I thought it might save you from pulling nonsense out of thin air Always ready to help the confused in any way I can, apart from the financial angle, I must add 5555555 So remember the FACTS concerning my personal situation are contained in POST 36 If you find yourself needing to recall them Have a nice day Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandyf Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 On 2/6/2018 at 8:05 AM, theoldgit said: You're probably aware that the NHS is funded from general taxation, not NI, and many of these expats still pay UK tax, so contributing to the running of the NHS. The original source of NHS funding is National insurance, unfortunately for many years now there has been an increasing shortfall which is made up from general taxation. I believe the government would use this argument against any legal challenge on tax being taken from expats to fund a service where entitlement is denied. The level of NHS funding in a given year is set by central government through the Spending Review process. This process estimates how much income the NHS will receive from sources such as user charges, National Insurance and general taxation. If National Insurance or patient charges raise less funding for the NHS than originally estimated, funds from general taxation are used to ensure the NHS receives the level of funding it was originally allocated. https://www.kingsfund.org.uk/projects/nhs-in-a-nutshell/how-nhs-funded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simoh1490 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 1 hour ago, oldlakey said: I only got you up to speed to help you recall the FACTS in the future I thought it might save you from pulling nonsense out of thin air Always ready to help the confused in any way I can, apart from the financial angle, I must add 5555555 So remember the FACTS concerning my personal situation are contained in POST 36 If you find yourself needing to recall them Have a nice day Thank you for confirming my suspicion, it wasn't worth the benefit of the doubt after all. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlakey Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 9 hours ago, simoh1490 said: Thank you for confirming my suspicion, it wasn't worth the benefit of the doubt after all. Put your foot in it didn't you, never mind perhaps this lesson will improve your powers of recall in the future my man, where I am concerned anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simoh1490 Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 17 minutes ago, oldlakey said: Put your foot in it didn't you, never mind perhaps this lesson will improve your powers of recall in the future my man, where I am concerned anyway There is no future for you and me, "my man", I have zero interest in your views on any subject nor on anything you have to say on any topic, nor do I have any interest in your billious emoticon clicking efforts, my ignore list is where you rightfully belong, byee! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlakey Posted February 7, 2018 Share Posted February 7, 2018 1 minute ago, simoh1490 said: There is no future for you and me, "my man", I have zero interest in your views on any subject nor on anything you have to say on any topic, nor do I have any interest in your billious emoticon clicking efforts, my ignore list is where you rightfully belong, byee! Thats like striking the jackpot, not very good at stalking are you my man So long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nellyp Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 On 2/5/2018 at 12:00 PM, oldlakey said: My reasons are my justification, everything needs to be paid for They are not paying TWICE for anything where do you get the idea that the NI payment or tax is for the NHS only The NHS is under a fair amount of pressure Build up a reservoir of money then draw out of the pot, until such time insurance is the way to go as far as the NHS is concerned Tax you get the use of the same benefits immediately as all other tax payers, security etc etc NI contributions will get you a pension if you make enough of them the minimum amount per year is not a tremendous amount of money even now Everything has to be paid for even the local council services, which you will either pay via rent or direct to the local council Move to a first world Nanny State and you can reap the benefits but at a price Does this mean that British citizens who have just started work should also have private medical insurance for 10 years as they have not contributed. Their parents may have paid, but they will have paid for themselves. I agree there must be some payment, but I think your reasoning is slightly off Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlakey Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 (edited) 49 minutes ago, nellyp said: Does this mean that British citizens who have just started work should also have private medical insurance for 10 years as they have not contributed. Their parents may have paid, but they will have paid for themselves. I agree there must be some payment, but I think your reasoning is slightly off Not if their parents had done the business, or received the credits 555555 because parents MUST OBVIOUSLY pay in lieu of their children attaining such age and employment status Simple really Unless you are advocating child labour, only joking honest Yes I am on the hard side no doubt with ten years but the pot is empty Edited February 9, 2018 by oldlakey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nellyp Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 34 minutes ago, oldlakey said: Not if their parents had done the business, or received the credits 555555 because parents MUST OBVIOUSLY pay in lieu of their children attaining such age and employment status Simple really Unless you are advocating child labour, only joking honest Yes I am on the hard side no doubt with ten years but the pot is empty I agree...the pot is empty. Is it not equally true that i may have been paying in Lieu of my wife if I didn't have children thoug?. A pretty circular argument I suppose. If I have to pay more for my wife ( who has already paid 6 years worth) then so be it. I have no problem paying the contribution necessary as I believe we all should. Though it does make finance more difficult Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rockingrobin Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 11 minutes ago, nellyp said: I agree...the pot is empty. Is it not equally true that i may have been paying in Lieu of my wife if I didn't have children thoug?. A pretty circular argument I suppose. If I have to pay more for my wife ( who has already paid 6 years worth) then so be it. I have no problem paying the contribution necessary as I believe we all should. Though it does make finance more difficult 2 The system does not function as you describe. Everybody is paying for everybody else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldlakey Posted February 9, 2018 Share Posted February 9, 2018 49 minutes ago, nellyp said: I agree...the pot is empty. Is it not equally true that i may have been paying in Lieu of my wife if I didn't have children thoug?. A pretty circular argument I suppose. If I have to pay more for my wife ( who has already paid 6 years worth) then so be it. I have no problem paying the contribution necessary as I believe we all should. Though it does make finance more difficult Well its difficult and thats for sure with the large movement of people over the last few years more pressure When I look around the world I think the UK welfare state in all its forms is the way to go, for several reasons Its the finance, and execution of it thats not easy, I am more than pleased that its not in my hands, as will be others All British citizens are entitled to the benefits of the welfare state from birth, then when they commence employment they start to pay As for your wife I am not going to chance my arm with a comment, because I am not sure if you mean my ten year waiting period or something else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theoldgit Posted February 9, 2018 Author Share Posted February 9, 2018 The information regarding this change has been passed onto members, as it's now turned into a bickering session it's time to close the thread.Sent from my iPhone using Thaivisa Connect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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