Italy's Northern League chief attacks euro, says preparing exit

[webfact]

Italy's Northern League chief attacks euro, says preparing exit

By Silvia Ognibene

 

FILE PHOTO - Northern League leader Matteo Salvini gestures during the television talk show "Porta a Porta" in Rome, Italy, January 18, 2018. REUTERS/Remo Casilli

 

FLORENCE, Italy (Reuters) - The leader of Italy's right-wing Northern League said on Wednesday his party was preparing the ground to leave the euro zone and called the euro a "German currency" which had damaged Italy's economy.

 

"It's clear to everyone that the euro is a mistake for our economy," Matteo Salvini told reporters on the sidelines of a rally in Florence ahead of the March 4 parliamentary election.

 

The eurosceptic League is a key member of the centre-right coalition which polls suggest will win most seats at the election, but probably fall short of a working majority.

 

Salvini, who last month presented two prominent anti-euro economists among the League's candidates, said it was only a matter of time before the euro collapsed and that he was "preparing an emergency exit for the Italians."

 

"We don't have a euro in our pockets. We have a German mark which they called the euro," he said.

 

The League is polling at around 14 percent, according to two surveys released this week, around two points behind its main coalition ally Forza Italia (Go Italy!) led by former prime minister Silvio Berlusconi..

 

The two leaders have agreed that if the centre-right bloc wins the election, whichever party gets more votes will choose the prime minister and set the policy agenda.

 

Berlusconi, who wants Italy to remain in the euro zone, is barred from office because of a 2013 tax fraud conviction and has not yet proposed a candidate for prime minister, while Salvini says that if the League comes first he will be premier.

 

The two parties also disagree on fiscal policy.

 

The League on Tuesday released its election programme saying Italy should leave the European Union unless the fiscal rules set out in the Maastricht treaty which prepared the ground for the single currency were scrapped.

 

"We want to remain in the EU only if we can renegotiate all the treaties which limit our full and legitimate sovereignty, in practical terms returning to the European Economic Union which preceded the Maastricht Treaty," the programme says.

 

Berlusconi says Italy should respect the EU's budget deficit ceiling of 3 percent of gross domestic product.

 

Each party in the centre-right bloc, which includes the small, far-right Brothers of Italy party, has issued its own election programme, and the coalition has also published a vaguer, joint programme containing points they all agree on.

 

(Writing by Gavin Jones; Editing by Richard Balmforth)

 

-- © Copyright Reuters 2018-02-08

[Caps]

Is this another country having its fill of the GU (EU) 

[ilostmypassword]

16 minutes ago, Caps said:

Is this another country having its fill of the GU (EU) 

No, this is about the Eurozone not the EU. As a citizen of the country that uses the pound, aren't you aware of the difference?

[Caps]

20 minutes ago, ilostmypassword said:

No, this is about the Eurozone not the EU. As a citizen of the country that uses the pound, aren't you aware of the difference?

Yes I am aware, thanks for pointing out the obvious.

Take it for what it was...not too serious...unless ones trousers are too tight  

Edited February 8, 2018 by Caps

[smedly]

1 hour ago, ilostmypassword said:

No, this is about the Eurozone not the EU. As a citizen of the country that uses the pound, aren't you aware of the difference?

The League on Tuesday released its election programme saying Italy should leave the European Union unless the fiscal rules set out in the Maastricht treaty which prepared the ground for the single currency were scrapped.

[arithai12]

1 hour ago, Caps said:

Is this another country having its fill of the GU (EU) 

Is this another minority leader having its fill of the GU (EU) 

 

There, fixed for you.

[stevenl]

3 hours ago, Caps said:

Is this another country having its fill of the GU (EU) 

No, this is about Euro, not EU.

 

Personally I wouldn't mind a 2 tiers Euro.

[Caps]

2 hours ago, stevenl said:

No, this is about Euro, not EU.

 

Personally I wouldn't mind a 2 tiers Euro.

Yawn....yes for the second time i know, yet someone else pointing out the obvious with possible tight trousers.  If you had read the whole thread you would know that I know, but some people just cant help themselves.

[Grouse]

Lego Nord is just another of these right wing Xenophobic separatist groups. A bit like the Catalonian separatists. Best ignored.

[eisfeld]

Italy is a doomed country. They have a sizeable corruption and organized crime problem. Look at how long and deep the mafia has infested the country. Look at their criminally convicted political leaders that still remain in power...

 

Made a trip to italy last year for the first time since being a kid and was thoroughly unimpressed. Touristy places like Rome and Pisa had lots of unfriendly locals, the roads are pretty bad and in general maintenance seems not valued that much over there. I love italian food and the scenery, people in less tourist-focused places were also pretty nice. What a shame.

[nauseus]

36 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Lego Nord is just another of these right wing Xenophobic separatist groups. A bit like the Catalonian separatists. Best ignored.

Yes, just ignore them. That's easiest!

[nauseus]

1 minute ago, eisfeld said:

Italy is a doomed country. They have a sizeable corruption and organized crime problem. Look at how long and deep the mafia has infested the country. Look at their criminally convicted political leaders that still remain in power...

 

Made a trip to italy last year for the first time since being a kid and was thoroughly unimpressed. Touristy places like Rome and Pisa had lots of unfriendly locals, the roads are pretty bad and in general maintenance seems not valued that much over there. I love italian food and the scenery, people in less tourist-focused places were also pretty nice. What a shame.

Mafia was there long before the EU 

[eisfeld]

2 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Mafia was there long before the EU 

Indeed. Like corruption, it's a problem for society to solve. But society hasn't. Blaming a foreign entity (the EU in this case) for Italies problems is always a popular political move when times are not so easy.

[smedly]

7 hours ago, Grouse said:

Lego Nord is just another of these right wing Xenophobic separatist groups. A bit like the Catalonian separatists. Best ignored.

yes just like a very small xenophobic group in the UK (up north) who would rather be outside the UK and if they can't have that would rather be governed from Brussels but most important although they would never admit it is that they need handouts from wherever they come because they cannot survive alone, you want some experience of that - go visit Greece and ask them how they are getting on

[stevenl]

9 hours ago, Caps said:

Yawn....yes for the second time i know, yet someone else pointing out the obvious with possible tight trousers.  If you had read the whole thread you would know that I know, but some people just cant help themselves.

I did read it, but looking at your reaction you deserved another correction.

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, smedly said:

yes just like a very small xenophobic group in the UK (up north) who would rather be outside the UK and if they can't have that would rather be governed from Brussels but most important although they would never admit it is that they need handouts from wherever they come because they cannot survive alone, you want some experience of that - go visit Greece and ask them how they are getting on

Hysterical (in both meanings of the word)

 

Xenophobe is of course, Greek - fearful of strangers.

 

Odd then that Scots wish to retain free movement of people!

 

Also, far from being right wing, I see the Scots as typically being social democrat, similar to our Scandinavian friends. 

 

By typical, I am of course referring to the arithmetically mean Scotsman.

 

As an independent country, I am sure the Scots could rearrange their economy along similar lines to the Danes. A country of broadly similar population density and natural resources.

Edited February 9, 2018 by Grouse

[Benmart]

13 hours ago, eisfeld said:

Italy is a doomed country. They have a sizeable corruption and organized crime problem. Look at how long and deep the mafia has infested the country. Look at their criminally convicted political leaders that still remain in power...

 

Made a trip to italy last year for the first time since being a kid and was thoroughly unimpressed. Touristy places like Rome and Pisa had lots of unfriendly locals, the roads are pretty bad and in general maintenance seems not valued that much over there. I love italian food and the scenery, people in less tourist-focused places were also pretty nice. What a shame.

Agreem. I was there in the "Lira" days. Very nice back then.

[nauseus]

14 hours ago, eisfeld said:

Indeed. Like corruption, it's a problem for society to solve. But society hasn't. Blaming a foreign entity (the EU in this case) for Italies problems is always a popular political move when times are not so easy.

Looks like in this case you are ignoring the influence of the EU and the Euro in particular. I used to enjoy Italy too.

[eisfeld]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

Looks like in this case you are ignoring the influence of the EU and the Euro in particular. I used to enjoy Italy too

I just doubt that Italy's problems come from the EU and the Euro. Can you explain how the Euro harms Italy? I think it has more to do with bad governance, being led by criminals etc.

[nauseus]

40 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

I just doubt that Italy's problems come from the EU and the Euro. Can you explain how the Euro harms Italy? I think it has more to do with bad governance, being led by criminals etc.

The Euro has damaged all of the southern European economies and sent youth unemployment sky high. Wake up!

[stevenl]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

The Euro has damaged all of the southern European economies and sent youth unemployment sky high. Wake up!

No, their, those countries, own policies have done that.

[eisfeld]

1 hour ago, nauseus said:

The Euro has damaged all of the southern European economies and sent youth unemployment sky high. Wake up!

How did it do that? Does it somehow perform better when in northern regions? Is it a discriminatory currency?

 

Hungary and Croatia must have great economies since they didn't jump on the Euro bandwagon. And before the Euro, I guess all these southern countries were without issues.

 

Let's be realistic. There are countries that are well off with the Euro and there are countries that are well off without the Euro. There are also countries that are in trouble with the Euro and there are countries that are in trouble without the Euro. The Euro has, overall, very little to do with a countries economic performance.

 

Italy has taken on itself massive amounts of debt (second after Greece) after the financial crisis when all the gambling banks went bust which is an extremely dangerous thing to do if not very careful. At that time, it basically amplified all their issues. Their industry is also hurt due to increased competition from Asia.

[nauseus]

4 minutes ago, eisfeld said:

How did it do that? Does it somehow perform better when in northern regions? Is it a discriminatory currency?

 

Hungary and Croatia must have great economies since they didn't jump on the Euro bandwagon. And before the Euro, I guess all these southern countries were without issues.

 

Let's be realistic. There are countries that are well off with the Euro and there are countries that are well off without the Euro. There are also countries that are in trouble with the Euro and there are countries that are in trouble without the Euro. The Euro has, overall, very little to do with a countries economic performance.

 

Italy has taken on itself massive amounts of debt (second after Greece) after the financial crisis when all the gambling banks went bust which is an extremely dangerous thing to do if not very careful. At that time, it basically amplified all their issues. Their industry is also hurt due to increased competition from Asia.

Here's reality. With the Euro Greece and Italy and the rest have their hands tied! Interest rates are controlled by the ECB and debt cannot be relieved easily. Lose your currency and lose control of your economy. 

[eisfeld]

11 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Here's reality. With the Euro Greece and Italy and the rest have their hands tied! Interest rates are controlled by the ECB and debt cannot be relieved easily. Lose your currency and lose control of your economy. 

Everyone has their hands tied the same way. How come other countries can manage it? And why does Italy have to take on massive amounts of debt anyways? Interest rates are so low right now that the only way to get out of the debt even easier using their hypothetical own currency would be to just print money to de-value it. And that's not a magic silver bullet without downsides especially since the majority of their debt is to italian entities. Most people are terrible at managing their own finances and so are countries. Letting debt get out of hand is what breaks all these economies. Debt can be used to supercharge economies but it's a very risky thing that can spiral out of control very quickly. The Euro is not some conspiracy to force southern countries into submission. Wake up!

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, eisfeld said:

Everyone has their hands tied the same way. How come other countries can manage it? And why does Italy have to take on massive amounts of debt anyways? Interest rates are so low right now that the only way to get out of the debt even easier using their hypothetical own currency would be to just print money to de-value it. And that's not a magic silver bullet without downsides especially since the majority of their debt is to italian entities. Most people are terrible at managing their own finances and so are countries. Letting debt get out of hand is what breaks all these economies. Debt can be used to supercharge economies but it's a very risky thing that can spiral out of control very quickly. The Euro is not some conspiracy to force southern countries into submission. Wake up!

Hands tied but different result for many. The Euro works well for Germany and that's about it. Much Italian debt has origins pre-dating entry into the Eurozone but this should have meant that it should never have been allowed to join. But as with Greece and others, the EU was too busy with promoting ing its own false status by gathering up new EU and Eurozone members, to worry about following its own rules, 

[eisfeld]

30 minutes ago, nauseus said:

Hands tied but different result for many. The Euro works well for Germany and that's about it. Much Italian debt has origins pre-dating entry into the Eurozone but this should have meant that it should never have been allowed to join. But as with Greece and others, the EU was too busy with promoting ing its own false status by gathering up new EU and Eurozone members, to worry about following its own rules, 

Why does it work well for Germany and nobody else? How exactly does it work?

 

Italy is an export heavy country, Germany is an export heavy country. They are bound by the same rules. Why does the Euro work for one but not the other?

 

A lot of Italy's debt (about half of it) was acquired after the Euro was adopted, especially before and during the financial crisis. Italy was a founding member of the EU and adopted the Euro from day one. Italy met the debt requirements when they joined the Eurozone. They wanted it.

 

Italy can't blame anyone else for their issues. Germany is not some secret ruler over the EU, they have a minority voting power and are not pushing their rules on anyone because they simply can't. A country doesn't just stop working because they adopt the currency. Either they have a working economy or not, no matter the currency.