Hundreds gather at Bangkok's Democracy Monument to demand election

[metisdead]

Inflammatory posts and replies have been removed. 

 

Posts containing disallowed references to the current government have been removed. 

 

Posts containing music videos have been removed as off topic. 

[diehard60]

sorry to say there wont be an election any time soon

[Chris Lawrence]

Its still warm in Hell

[sirwilly]

STRONG OAKS from little Acorns GROW. . Its a start they have to start somewhere.

[Eligius]

It should be so blindingly obvious why democracy is preferable to autocratic rule (we are not allowed to use the REAL term here): democratic government can be removed by peaceful election and then a better party organised and voted into  power, without the slaughter of thousands and thousands of human lives - whereas a different kind of 'government' can often only be shifted by force and with the loss of much human blood.

 

That is why, believe it or not, democracy tends to be the preferred model of government around the civilised world.

[sead]

[wvavin]

Can this make changes? 

[rtco]

 

You can fool some people sometimes, But you can't fool all the people all the time. So now we see the light (what you gonna do?), We gonna stand up for our rights! (yeah, yeah, yeah!) ... 

 

 

You can fool some people sometimes, But you can't fool all the people all the time. So now we see the light (what you gonna do?), We gonna stand up for our rights! (yeah, yeah, yeah!)

Edited February 11, 2018 by metisdead
Off topic video removed.

[ELVIS123456]

1 minute ago, Eligius said:

It should be so blindingly obvious why democracy is preferable to autocratic rule (we are not allowed to use the REAL term here): democratic government can be removed by peaceful election and then a better party organised and voted into  power, without the slaughter of thousands and thousands of human lives - whereas a different kind of 'government' can often only be shifted by force and with the loss of much human blood.

 

That is why, believe it or not, democracy tends to be the preferred model of government around the civilised world.

i previously gave several examples of where your assertions are false. where imposition of democracy lead to economic and social disaster in many countries.  particularly in Middle East and Africa - but you can add Sth America too.  Mexico is just going great since they got democracy - NOT.

 

i think like most posters against the junta you are using yourself as a yardstick when measuring thailand and the thais. what is good in western countries is not necessarily a good thing in 3rd world countries. likewise what is bad in western countries is not necessarily bad in the 3rd world. saying a country like norway is the best in the world because it is the 'most' democratic fails to take account of the reality of the people - they are capable of positively living in a democracy.  many people/cultures in the world are not - they like norway need time to change and evolve - giving full democracy to some is like letting a 10 year old drive a car - they aint ready for it (and certainly not in thailand). 

 

[Stupooey]

31 minutes ago, ELVIS123456 said:

will someone give me some logical and coherent thoughts to support their opinion that the junta is bad and democracy is good.

 

i have given just a few examples of countries where military/monarchy was replaced by a democracy and it has been a disaster.

 

the past is a great predictor for the future, and is a far better test than "my teacher told me it was so".

 

Myanmar is a good example of what can happen to a country under military rule for any length of time, as well as showing how democracy can be rendered ineffective when the generals won't let go.

Your reference to teachers is also interesting. It was the junta who ordered teachers to force Prayut's propaganda down the throats of the children; I don't remember previous governments indulging in such brainwashing tactics.

[Jools]

This will not end well.

[Terek]

My opinion is that Thailand is not ready for democracy, as also most countries, people are to naive, maybe only several countries on this planet is ready and can function democratic, also option I see would be allow allow to vote only people who have IQ above 100 .

Edited February 11, 2018 by Terek

[heybruce]

34 minutes ago, ginjag said:

Sorry Democracy lover,  if you call  Thaksin regime democracy.  Drugs  --buying off electorate-- amnesty-- running the job from Dubai, with his sister not even able to govern--then the rice--tablets for every kid-------we do not have to go there again.    Red army taking over BKK.    I was happy when Yingluck was got rid of and her corrupt cabnet.   The army was near the best alternative, as a snap election ordered by Thaksin to get Yingluck back to pull his strings. Then we have to compare  your interpretation that the PM is gagging the people---Just remember when Thaksin controlled Thai Rak Thai---all the TV -media,  so elections are not an answer everytime--but it's nice to say elections for democracy.

Sorry junta lover, but the PTP, led by Yingluck, was elected in an internationally monitored election (Thailand is unlikely to see one of those again for a long time), Yingluck made no secret of her consulting with Thaksin during the election and the PTP won convincingly. 

 

Also, the voters recognized all that had gone wrong with the PTP government, so an election in 2014 was an excellent opportunity to weaken the PTP electorally, the way things are supposed to work in a democracy.  However an election in 2014 would not have resulted in a government the military could control, so the coup was staged while there was still a weak semblance of a protest left to justify it.

 

Your nonsense about a Red army taking over Bangkok and Thaksin's media influence being on the same order as the junta crushing all free expression and assembly is just that, nonsense.  Also, only a fool thought that a corrupt military would be less corrupt than the elected government.

[InMyShadow]

Hundreds?

_zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

[Eligius]

2 minutes ago, Terek said:

My opinion is that Thailand is not ready for democracy, as also most countries, people are to naive, maybe only several countries on this planet is ready and can function democratic, also option I see would be allow allow to vote only people who have IQ above 100 .

And a country will never be 'ready for democracy' unless it is allowed to PRACTISE democracy and learn the democratic methodologies in the process, through error and gradual self-betterment in the practice. Turning the clock back to Year Zero through a coup every 10 years serves no one (except a tiny selfish minority at the top).

 

As for IQ: even foolish people have the right to choose which fool should be their leader (I am not saying all Thais are fools here, by any means)!

[ELVIS123456]

3 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

Myanmar is a good example of what can happen to a country under military rule for any length of time, as well as showing how democracy can be rendered ineffective when the generals won't let go.

Your reference to teachers is also interesting. It was the junta who ordered teachers to force Prayut's propaganda down the throats of the children; I don't remember previous governments indulging in such brainwashing tactics.

Myanmar - that is it? that is your argument? I gave many many more examples of failed democracies. Democracy is not guaranteed to work in Thailand - no matter what people believe.  Reality means a 'staged introduction' IMO.

 

People in the west are brainwashed like all the others - Democracy is Good is rammed down the kids throat from the moment  they can understand. Religios do it too. Nothing new in that. My point is that it aint necessarily correct in all situations. What works in USA doesnt always work in Myanmar.

 

[heybruce]

4 minutes ago, Terek said:

My opinion is that Thailand is not ready for democracy, as also most countries, people are to naive, maybe only several countries on this planet is ready and can function democratic, also option I see would be allow allow to vote only people who have IQ above 100 .

Yeah, and people are not ready to be adults at 18, 21 or any age, people are only ready for adult responsibilities after they've had them for a few years or more.  Similarly no country is ready for democracy until it has had a few (or more) elections, uninterrupted by coups, to grow into the responsibility.

[Wake Up]

Democracy is not perfect and IMO the politicians at the top are no good. But it beats a military dictatorship unless you are some of the chosen few.  I admire every person at the rally that defied the dictator’s orders and protested for democracy.  Hope blood shed is not in the future as IMO this dictatorship has no desire to lose any of its current powers.  

[brucec64]

59 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Facts such as corruption has increased since the coup, elections have been promised "next year" every year since the coup, freedom of speech, press and association are still banned, the protests were dying of apathy when the military staged a coup to prevent an election.... 

 

Are those the kind of facts you are referring to?

Don't forget promising to end populist policies, and then pushing through the incredibility wasteful 100bn bht Thai Niyom populist campaign, just as the junta's popularity hits an all time low.

[InMyShadow]

Another huge embarrassment! What idiot is in charge? I bet there wasn't even a head count. Probably an eyeball.. Looks like thousands! Let's go for it!

Comedy gold! [emoji23]

[Stupooey]

3 minutes ago, ELVIS123456 said:

Myanmar - that is it? that is your argument? I gave many many more examples of failed democracies. Democracy is not guaranteed to work in Thailand - no matter what people believe.  Reality means a 'staged introduction' IMO.

 

People in the west are brainwashed like all the others - Democracy is Good is rammed down the kids throat from the moment  they can understand. Religios do it too. Nothing new in that. My point is that it aint necessarily correct in all situations. What works in USA doesnt always work in Myanmar.

 

I gave Myanmar as an example as it is a Buddhist country adjacent to Thailand and is therefore a better comparison than the middle East, africa and Latin America. By the way, what has happened to all the military dictatorships we used to have in Africa? If it such a great form of government, wouldn't they be flourishing?

[Wake Up]

4 minutes ago, ELVIS123456 said:

Myanmar - that is it? that is your argument? I gave many many more examples of failed democracies. Democracy is not guaranteed to work in Thailand - no matter what people believe.  Reality means a 'staged introduction' IMO.

 

People in the west are brainwashed like all the others - Democracy is Good is rammed down the kids throat from the moment  they can understand. Religios do it too. Nothing new in that. My point is that it aint necessarily correct in all situations. What works in USA doesnt always work in Myanmar.

 

Democracy is not like a piece of chocolate cake that tastes the same in every country. It is not one size fits all. But what democracy does is allow groups of people to speak their minds and call for change.

 Military dictatorships like Myramaar and China and religion controlled Iran suppress all criticisms constructive or otherwise and rule by status and fear. Not a great life IMO. 

[heybruce]

12 minutes ago, ELVIS123456 said:

i previously gave several examples of where your assertions are false. where imposition of democracy lead to economic and social disaster in many countries.  particularly in Middle East and Africa - but you can add Sth America too.  Mexico is just going great since they got democracy - NOT.

 

i think like most posters against the junta you are using yourself as a yardstick when measuring thailand and the thais. what is good in western countries is not necessarily a good thing in 3rd world countries. likewise what is bad in western countries is not necessarily bad in the 3rd world. saying a country like norway is the best in the world because it is the 'most' democratic fails to take account of the reality of the people - they are capable of positively living in a democracy.  many people/cultures in the world are not - they like norway need time to change and evolve - giving full democracy to some is like letting a 10 year old drive a car - they aint ready for it (and certainly not in thailand). 

 

Yes, and I gave examples of how your examples were BS, and pointed out one of the overwhelming flaws to your arguments.  Rather than reply to my post or keep quiet, you dig yourself in deeper by using South America as an example. Show me a democratic country in South America that wants to abandon democracy for military rule.

 

Some simple-minded people expect democracy to emerge stable, mature, and ready to immediately fix all society's ills after an election.  Democracy takes time to mature, endemic corruption takes a long time to fix, and new democratic leaders must choose their battles carefully, especially in a country with a coup-prone military.

[Terek]

Just now, Eligius said:

 

As for IQ: even foolish people have the right to choose which fool should be their leader (I am not saying all Thais are fools here, by any means)!

hmm, no thanks, I think foolish people should have limited rights like children who are not yet adults, that"s the biggest problem of democracy, foolish people voting for fools

[Stupooey]

15 minutes ago, Terek said:

My opinion is that Thailand is not ready for democracy, as also most countries, people are to naive, maybe only several countries on this planet is ready and can function democratic, also option I see would be allow allow to vote only people who have IQ above 100 .

Good idea, perhaps we could rid ourselves of Trump and Brexit. (Sorry - off topic).

[WHYWHY]

Yes brave young men and women 

However arrest warrents issued for them

But none issued for the group trying to get Dep premier to stay 

Why have warrents not been issued for that group

[ELVIS123456]

8 minutes ago, Stupooey said:

I gave Myanmar as an example as it is a Buddhist country adjacent to Thailand and is therefore a better comparison than the middle East, africa and Latin America. By the way, what has happened to all the military dictatorships we used to have in Africa? If it such a great form of government, wouldn't they be flourishing?

what has happened to all the military dictatorships we used to have in Africa?

 

They were taken over by enforced democracies that resulted in even worse outcomes for the people.  None of which we hear about since the media isnt interested in failed democracies - only bad evil military/monarchies.

 

So Myanmar it is.  OK - lets start and finish there.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/19/world/asia/myanmar-democracy-rohingya.html

It took me all of 2 minutes to find a source you wouldn't immediately dismiss as biased. Your own NY Times it is.

 

You are wrong. Democracy in Myanmar is failing. 

 

Perhaps that means I am right?  Perhaps not.  True - perhaps I am not.

 

BUT - religious like fanatical ideological belief that Democracy is good and anything else is bad - is wrong.  

 

The junta are in transition to Democracy - they know they cant stay forever. They may even put forward candidates for the election. I hope they do as I believe a 3rd Party would be good for Thailand. The previous attempts at Democracy always devolved into a power struggle between reds and yellows - a brown party might offer some balance.  Hey - before you tear that idea down - why not let the people decide if they want to elect a military rule.  Isnt that true democracy?  Wasn't  Washington, Grant, Roosevelt, Eisenhower, etc. all senior military men before they become POTUS?  

 

[Pisdjuk]

Interesting to read some of he comments here. 

 

Wondering exactly WHAT it is so many farang have against the so-called “junta”? 

 

I have been a frequent guest to this wonderful country since late 1980’es and see many good initiatives by the ruling government. A government, so it seems to me, which want to develop Thailand, build infrastructure and create security for foreign investment (and I don’t think of buying house and land here). A government which tries to create a connection between expenditures and state income (no country can exist without taxes or by paying overprice for rice to it’s farmers). 

 

It seems as if a lot here are unhappy now the government has started ruling and actually acts to many of the problems in the country (flooding, lack of pension funds, lack of proper infrastructure and lack of a taxation system). 

 

The Thai people (I really like them) needs to be better educated, get better jobs and try to understand the huge potential this country has to become much richer. 

 

Yes, I am a pro-Junta guy and I wish for Thailand that the Government won’t let go of the chance to build a sustainable future for the country before leaving it to the masses.

[theguyfromanotherforum]

Any pics?

[ELVIS123456]

8 minutes ago, Pisdjuk said:

Interesting to read some of he comments here. 

 

Wondering exactly WHAT it is so many farang have against the so-called “junta”? 

 

I have been a frequent guest to this wonderful country since late 1980’es and see many good initiatives by the ruling government. A government, so it seems to me, which want to develop Thailand, build infrastructure and create security for foreign investment (and I don’t think of buying house and land here). A government which tries to create a connection between expenditures and state income (no country can exist without taxes or by paying overprice for rice to it’s farmers). 

 

It seems as if a lot here are unhappy now the government has started ruling and actually acts to many of the problems in the country (flooding, lack of pension funds, lack of proper infrastructure and lack of a taxation system). 

 

The Thai people (I really like them) needs to be better educated, get better jobs and try to understand the huge potential this country has to become much richer. 

 

Yes, I am a pro-Junta guy and I wish for Thailand that the Government won’t let go of the chance to build a sustainable future for the country before leaving it to the masses.

Dont be so pragmatic and reasonable. That will only attract the social justice warriors I have been battling today.

 

Education is exactly the issue.  Thais overall are not as educated and informed  as the people need to be for a successful democracy - that is a fact.