Hundreds gather at Bangkok's Democracy Monument to demand election

[Eric Loh]

9 minutes ago, ginjag said:

People to know what good governance is and to vote accordingly,    topic here,  Problem Thai people are not learned in what good governance is.  It's fine to shout about democracy is elections, BUT.

Still better than a corrupt junta government. Truncated elected governments give very little chance for the citizens to develop empowerment to select good government with good governance.

 

Nothing is better than democracy at the moment and certainly not a government that seized power from the barrel of guns and starting to have dictatorial ambition and a constitution that seats 25 % military men appointed senators.

 

Thailand is going backwards than forward with so much apathy from people like you advocating regular military interventions and subjugating people freedom and abusing human rights.

[heybruce]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

What is true democracy 

Perfect democracy in which perfectly informed people make all decisions affecting society by majority vote is impossible.  Voters electing (hopefully) competent people based on platforms that indicate the direction these people will take the country is the best we can hope for.

[ginjag]

7 minutes ago, heybruce said:

No, I happen to believe that fair elections take place that reflect the will of the people, the elected govern in accordance with a constitution written to protect, not undermine, democratic rule, and the new elections are conducted in accordance with that constitution. 

 

The above is no guarantee of good government, but it at least allows voters to change the government in a non-violent manner when they feel the need. 

 

Democracy is far from perfect, but it's better than the alternatives.  It is much better than the military rule that you prefer.

 

Edit:  "it is not about me.  but looks like it's about you and is reflected in your posts."  What?  I advocate for democracy, I don't claim to be the God of Democracy!

The military rule I PREFER ??   you are posting to try to bait------bye brucy

[ginjag]

6 minutes ago, Eric Loh said:

Still better than a corrupt junta government. Truncated elected governments give very little chance for the citizens to develop empowerment to select good government with good governance.

 

Nothing is better than democracy at the moment and certainly not a government that seized power from the barrel of guns and starting to have dictatorial ambition and a constitution that seats 25 % military men appointed senators.

 

Thailand is going backwards than forward with so much apathy from people like you advocating regular military interventions and subjugating people freedom and abusing human rights.

ha ha OTT same Hey Bruce,      Barrel of guns  ????,  look at the 150 persons that rule here 76-74,  google it, how on earth can you have democracy with this in place---tell Brucy  he may not be aware also,   hence the reason bad governance and non democratic and you people say you want elections to be faced with this  OMG

[tryasimight]

6 hours ago, mommysboy said:

Totally unacceptable!

What are you going to do about it? 

[debate101]

The paid Thai-military cyber warfare trolls are out in force today to try to muddy the waters. Not everyone who posts pro-junta rhetoric falls into this category, but there are at least a handful, even native English speakers.

 

The Chinese government employs millions to scour the internet for party criticism and post pro-government propaganda. The Russian government makes use of bots. I've no doubt the current gang have made this a priority, as their attempts at internet and social media control have mostly failed.

 

Suspicious accounts include those registered in the past few years with posts that number in the hundreds on only or mostly political topics, odd, irrelevant avatars, and inconsistent "characterisation." Several accounts could belong to a single user.

 

Ironically, pro-democracy elements are often accused of being in the pay of Thaksin, while it is the old establishment that has much deeper pockets and takes fewer risks to express anything at all. 

 

No one is going to risk years in prison for a few hundred baht a day, for example.

[Eligius]

It baffles me how anyone could prefer to have a government which one CANNOT easily and peacefully remove (but which can only potentially be ousted through the shedding of much innocent human blood) and a government that one CAN effortlessly and easily  remove simply by the wielding of one's pen in a voting booth.

 

It's surely a no-brainer (but apparently not!).

[heybruce]

16 minutes ago, ginjag said:

The military rule I PREFER ??   you are posting to try to bait------bye brucy

Ok, the military rule you defend whenever anyone suggests elections.

[Eric Loh]

2 minutes ago, ginjag said:

ha ha OTT same Hey Bruce,      Barrel of guns  ????,  look at the 150 persons that rule here 76-74,  google it, how on earth can you have democracy with this in place---tell Brucy  he may not be aware also,   hence the reason bad governance and non democratic and you people say you want elections to be faced with this  OMG

You certainly is a confused man and tripping on your comment.

 

Maybe you clear the confusion by explaining the connection between bad governance and democracy. Perhaps reflect that bad governance need democracy and election to rid bad government. Not the opposite. Now we have a corrupt junta and no legal avenue to get rid of them. OMG so simple. 

 

 

[heybruce]

13 minutes ago, ginjag said:

ha ha OTT same Hey Bruce,      Barrel of guns  ????,  look at the 150 persons that rule here 76-74,  google it, how on earth can you have democracy with this in place---tell Brucy  he may not be aware also,   hence the reason bad governance and non democratic and you people say you want elections to be faced with this  OMG

Does that make any sense to you Eric?  I'm baffled.

[metisdead]

Another post containing a disallowed reference to the current government has been removed. 

[Eric Loh]

3 minutes ago, mark131v said:

The absolute selfishness and naivety of some pro-dikatorship posters on here is absolutely breathtaking, still not entirely sure if they have us all on a bite really....

Think problem with them is that they are Thaksin centric. They use his government as their argument point and disregard the history of military interventions. Let’s not forget that the tenure of military and pro military governments are longer than elected governments. 

[Oziex1]

Toon, run down to the monument your people need you.

[tryasimight]

1 hour ago, Eric Loh said:

Still better than a corrupt junta government. Truncated elected governments give very little chance for the citizens to develop empowerment to select good government with good governance.

 

Nothing is better than democracy at the moment and certainly not a government that seized power from the barrel of guns and starting to have dictatorial ambition and a constitution that seats 25 % military men appointed senators.

 

Thailand is going backwards than forward with so much apathy from people like you advocating regular military interventions and subjugating people freedom and abusing human rights.

From what I recall pre and post coup the vast majority of incidents involving barrels of guns was from the red side of the political spectrum.  I don't recall the army shooting anyone. 

[mark131v]

3 minutes ago, tryasimight said:

From what I recall pre and post coup the vast majority of incidents involving barrels of guns was from the red side of the political spectrum.  I don't recall the army shooting anyone. 

Aaah, selective memory again, are you going to run out the line about the RTA being forced to intervene as well? 

 

Figure RTA is not specific enough so a more appropriate description would probably be cretins in green, sorry for any confusion....

Edited February 11, 2018 by mark131v

[tryasimight]

3 minutes ago, mark131v said:

Aaah, selective memory again, are you going to run out the line about the RTA being forced to intervene as well? 

 

Figure RTA is not specific enough so a more appropriate description would probably be cretins in green, sorry for any confusion....

Your confusion is understandable.... And yes you are forgiven. 

[Stargeezr]

Try to remember Robert Maguby and his rule, then you will know what a military ruler can do to his country.

Geezer

[humbug]

1 hour ago, debate101 said:

The paid Thai-military cyber warfare trolls are out in force today to try to muddy the waters. Not everyone who posts pro-junta rhetoric falls into this category, but there are at least a handful, even native English speakers.

 

The Chinese government employs millions to scour the internet for party criticism and post pro-government propaganda. The Russian government makes use of bots. I've no doubt the current gang have made this a priority, as their attempts at internet and social media control have mostly failed.

 

Suspicious accounts include those registered in the past few years with posts that number in the hundreds on only or mostly political topics, odd, irrelevant avatars, and inconsistent "characterisation." Several accounts could belong to a single user.

 

Ironically, pro-democracy elements are often accused of being in the pay of Thaksin, while it is the old establishment that has much deeper pockets and takes fewer risks to express anything at all. 

 

No one is going to risk years in prison for a few hundred baht a day, for example.

exactly

 

they didnt even deny it in the past. There was even a picture of a few years ago of a cyber room run by the thai ops with staff working shifts over 24hrs for what you mentioned.

 

 

[Sirbergan]

1 hour ago, Antioc said:

What is democracy?  A bunch of over privileged individuals with nothing but wealth and position to qualify them for the position they aspire to.  They often have no idea how to organize something as simple as a picnic.  They are people who arrange things so that their names, and not the names of the candidates who should be there, are placed on the Ballet Papers - enabling you to become complicit in their rise to the top without being aware of the real process.  That is what our modern democracies have boiled down to.  Politicians are supported by the rich and powerful so that their position at the top of the pile can be maintained - democracy is really nothing more than a smokescreen covering a corrupt process.

I live in a Thai City where very large projects are under way in several places, high speed rail is on it's way through here, large expressways are under construction and people spaces are being improved.  Don't see that in my great democratic homeland. 

I don't believe in dictatorships or authoritarian rule but it's hard to support democracy when you know what goes on behind the scenes.  I was a Government Advisor, saw good politicians crying behind the scenes because they were rolled by the corrupt ones, saw excellent schemes thrown aside because they were too beneficial to the average citizen and took money from favored schemes, but worst of all was the take over of government Departments by people with particular persuasions (don't ask).

This is a not matured democracy. Read your message again, then think about how well it describes Thailand. If we have coups every 3 years on average, how will the democracy ever mature?

[Stargeezr]

To the two posters who seem on opposite sides,  actually it matters nothing what each of you think, or

post as your say adds up to nothing in the country of Thailand, just saying.

Geezer

[Sirbergan]

2 hours ago, ginjag said:

People to know what good governance is and to vote accordingly,    topic here,  Problem Thai people are not learned in what good governance is.  It's fine to shout about democracy is elections, BUT.

No, the problem is that the so-called democracy is always interrupted. Saying Thailand is not ready for a democracy is a mute point, as the country never even gets close to maturing due to constant interruptions.

[Sirbergan]

The real powers in this country do not want democracy, and keep interrupting the process, resulting in nothing but havoc and people saying the country is not ready for it. It's a vicious cycle, with no good outcome in sight.

[metisdead]

Offensive posts and replies have been removed. 

[realenglish1]

This is only the beginning If the government does not hold elections by February 2019 then I do not want to be around Bangkok There are going to be problems I see it coming

[Sirbergan]

3 minutes ago, JAG said:

Maybe he is emulating his namesake and making a comeback...

Encouraging professionals to come with a visa for freelance workers would be a good place to start. Some oldies at this forum calls them digital pikies, although a lot of them wants to come here to stay, work and live with their families, them having skills that enables a decent living though being unable to stay legally due to 100+ year old laws that makes zero sense

[robblok]

Just let democracy have his chance again. We all know its not a real democracy just voting and then all checks and balances are gone. 

 

They all want to be in power to be able to steal as much money as they can and feed some scraps to the poor. Problem is that those not in power will find ways (violence included) to get in power. People will die again, but that is a small price to pay to only have a change in those stealing from the country is it not ?

 

Until corruption is cleaned up the violence and fake democracy will stay in Thailand. I don't see any changes and there are no non corrupt parties so nothing will change.. just other arrogant people in power filling up their bank accounts. 

 

But at least people can vote (not that it matters as the options are all tainted)

[Sirbergan]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

Just let democracy have his chance again. We all know its not a real democracy just voting and then all checks and balances are gone. 

 

They all want to be in power to be able to steal as much money as they can and feed some scraps to the poor. Problem is that those not in power will find ways (violence included) to get in power. People will die again, but that is a small price to pay to only have a change in those stealing from the country is it not ?

 

Until corruption is cleaned up the violence and fake democracy will stay in Thailand. I don't see any changes and there are no non corrupt parties so nothing will change.. just other arrogant people in power filling up their bank accounts. 

 

But at least people can vote (not that it matters as the options are all tainted)

If you just let the democracy mature, it would get better. The Thais are all paying the price of the old establishment maintaining power. Why are e-sigs banned? It's because the biggest families, owning the biggest cigarette brands and having most connections, would lose money.

 

They claim the reason is that they can't claim taxes. Connect the dots.

[robblok]

1 minute ago, Sirbergan said:

If you just let the democracy mature, it would get better. The Thais are all paying the price of the old establishment maintaining power. Why are e-sigs banned? It's because the biggest families, owning the biggest cigarette brands and having most connections, would lose money.

 

They claim the reason is that they can't claim taxes. Connect the dots.

Democracy mature... not in a corrupt country like Thailand.. I want the army gone.. but I am under any illusion that things will change. Just other people stealing money. The PTP had someone as Charlem in their ranks ... a guy who helped his son get away with murder. Nothing will change.. just other people stealing money. 

 

 

[Sirbergan]

Quote

Democracy mature... not in a corrupt country like Thailand.. I want the army gone.. but I am under any illusion that things will change. Just other people stealing money. The PTP had someone as Charlem in their ranks ... a guy who helped his son get away with murder. Nothing will change.. just other people stealing money. 

 

I clearly remember you being a junta supporter earlier.

Edited February 11, 2018 by Sirbergan

[beautifulthailand99]

4 hours ago, Mansell said:

By your comment are you inferring that the Junta will take any notice of an aging farang, or even think he is allowed any say in the future running of this country? And for your information I have been in the line of fire doing humanitarian work in Afghanistan after the Taliban fell after 9/11......I never met you there. Most of the people helping the Afghans were doctors from Pakistan, South Africa, and Muslim doctors from assorted other countries. Protesting is nice, but actually helping people is better.

Posting on an internet forum is the very definition of futile gesture.