Hundreds gather at Bangkok's Democracy Monument to demand election

[Sirbergan]

10 minutes ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

Posting on an internet forum is the very definition of futile gesture. 

I beg to differ, it's a lot better than doing nothing at all.The most futile gesture, is to stay silent.

[robblok]

27 minutes ago, Sirbergan said:

 

I clearly remember you being a junta supporter earlier.

 

I supported their fight against corruption and loved how they brought down the fake G2G deals that cost the country 30 billion. The same deals YL said were real and why she is was convicted for negligence. I also loved it they made sure that the convicted criminal Thaksin could not get his amnesty. I actually love all actions against corruption, the junta lost its shine for me after they themselves were also corrupt (think the watches and other scandals). 

 

So now I am op the opinion that it really does not matter who is in power as nothing will change and those in power will steal rob and bend the rules. Those not in power will incite violence or try to bring the other party down in an other way. 

 

Nothing will change until corruption is cleaned up and people are really punished. I greatly enjoyed the long sentence for Boonsong and the fake G2G deals plus the fact they had to make re payments. Now if this was done for everyone without looking at what side they support things might change.

 

I still feel the coup was justified because without it the fake G2G deals and whole rice scam would never be exposed as those in power would have blocked it. Now it came clear that YL herself had a hand in it by not acting while everyone was told about it. 

 

I wish it was different but only after a government change do corruption cases of the previous government get really investigated. Too bad there is not much chance that army will be investigated after the lose power. But the same would have been true had YL won an election (if there was no coup) Then the fake G2G deals and her negligence would never have been punished.

 

Only solution is real punishment for corruption and a lot less power for governments to put their people in places of power (thus influencing justice)

[Sirbergan]

6 minutes ago, robblok said:

 

I supported their fight against corruption and loved how they brought down the fake G2G deals that cost the country 30 billion. The same deals YL said were real and why she is was convicted for negligence. I also loved it they made sure that the convicted criminal Thaksin could not get his amnesty. I actually love all actions against corruption, the junta lost its shine for me after they themselves were also corrupt (think the watches and other scandals). 

 

So now I am op the opinion that it really does not matter who is in power as nothing will change and those in power will steal rob and bend the rules. Those not in power will incite violence or try to bring the other party down in an other way. 

 

Nothing will change until corruption is cleaned up and people are really punished. I greatly enjoyed the long sentence for Boonsong and the fake G2G deals plus the fact they had to make re payments. Now if this was done for everyone without looking at what side they support things might change.

 

I still feel the coup was justified because without it the fake G2G deals and whole rice scam would never be exposed as those in power would have blocked it. Now it came clear that YL herself had a hand in it by not acting while everyone was told about it. 

 

I wish it was different but only after a government change do corruption cases of the previous government get really investigated. Too bad there is not much chance that army will be investigated after the lose power. But the same would have been true had YL won an election (if there was no coup) Then the fake G2G deals and her negligence would never have been punished.

 

Only solution is real punishment for corruption and a lot less power for governments to put their people in places of power (thus influencing justice)

Sure, they then went ahead buying a several trillion submarine, they did not prosecute the main protagonist of the riots  and we're not really allowed to talk about this

[Sirbergan]

Not being allowed to talk about it should be a major issue.

[robblok]

Just now, Sirbergan said:

Sure, they then went ahead buying a several trillion submarine, they did not prosecute the main protagonist of the riots  and we're not really allowed to talk about this

They did however catch many red shirt terrorist who could not be caught by Charlem... wonder why he could not catch them... maybe because they were on his side ?

 

Those subs were a waste of money and there are many other faults of the junta. So I don't support them but their actions in bringing to justice the Shins I do applaud. 

 

Now let democracy come back and we can sit back and see everything repeat itself again... corrupt leaders... other people wanting to be in power.. violence.. and so on. 

 

I have accepted that there are no good guys in Thailand (that get into government). So i just go with the flow commenting on whoever is in power.

[mark131v]

1 minute ago, robblok said:

They did however catch many red shirt terrorist who could not be caught by Charlem... wonder why he could not catch them... maybe because they were on his side ?

 

Those subs were a waste of money and there are many other faults of the junta. So I don't support them but their actions in bringing to justice the Shins I do applaud. 

 

Now let democracy come back and we can sit back and see everything repeat itself again... corrupt leaders... other people wanting to be in power.. violence.. and so on. 

 

I have accepted that there are no good guys in Thailand (that get into government). So i just go with the flow commenting on whoever is in power.

What you and your old mates in the junta fan club continue to be unable to grasp is Thailand has swapped one corrupt leader for another, problem is with this lot there are no checks and balances and other than through bloodshed no way to remove them either......surely that isn't a difficult thing to grasp

[metisdead]

Troll posts and the replies have been removed. 

[jesimps]

13 hours ago, smutcakes said:

Amazing that all of the PDRC anti corruption supporters seem to have suddenly decided they don't actually mind corruption at all.

Hardly surprising seeing it was part of the plan.

[jesimps]

2 hours ago, Sirbergan said:

 

I clearly remember you being a junta supporter earlier.

Supporter? He was a rabid fanatic!! They must've done something to upset him.

[Evolare]

As long as article 44 is in effect the military can do pretty much whatever they want. But from what i can tell it wont be the end of this. I dint think i know one single person that actually like the military anymore and that is a bad score because a majority actually thought highly of them in the beginning.

[tropo]

16 hours ago, cornishcarlos said:

I have a feeling it's gonna take more than "100s"...

"100s" they can accommodate in jail, "1000s" might be  tougher :)

That goes without saying, but it has to start somewhere. Last year doesn't count for obvious reasons, so quite a bit has happened in a very short period of time.

[tropo]

15 hours ago, Eligius said:

I am afraid it would take hundreds of thousands to shift this bunch. They hold all the levers of power and will cling on to the bitter end. The Thai people have got to really mean business this time if they want to see the back of this autocratic clique. A few thousand people on the streets will no-way do it (extremely brave though those people be). The numbers have to rise into the HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS, even approaching millions. Nothing less will prize this bunch from their usurpatory domination of the nation.

 

I was talking yesterday to a Law lecturer at Thammasat and he (a supporter of the junta) is confident that the military control will continue beyond the 'election', as the habit of obedience and subservience is so deeply ingrained in the Thai people. He does not see a mass uprising.

 

Well, without that, the Thais can continue to enjoy the sweet and loving delights of a military junta ...

They will have to tread very carefully. A martyr or two could bring on the uprising you say won't happen.

[tropo]

2 hours ago, robblok said:

They did however catch many red shirt terrorist who could not be caught by Charlem... wonder why he could not catch them... maybe because they were on his side ?

 

Those subs were a waste of money and there are many other faults of the junta. So I don't support them but their actions in bringing to justice the Shins I do applaud. 

 

Now let democracy come back and we can sit back and see everything repeat itself again... corrupt leaders... other people wanting to be in power.. violence.. and so on. 

 

I have accepted that there are no good guys in Thailand (that get into government). So i just go with the flow commenting on whoever is in power.

You did say you supported the coup. Now you say "let democracy come back". LOL. As long as you support military takeovers for any reason you've killed democracy and any chance it will return (if it was ever here, to begin with). The only way for Thailand to become a democratic nation is to somehow subdue the power of military commanders. They have been in charge since Thailand became a constitutional monarchy (75 years). They were the architects of the constitutional monarchy. How would you take their power away? How could you?

 

I know everyone wants new elections, but what's the point really? Any elected government serves at the pleasure of the military commander. It's a merry-go-round in a circus. There's got to be another name for this type of government, but let's not call it democracy.

 

 

 

 

[heybruce]

4 hours ago, tryasimight said:

From what I recall pre and post coup the vast majority of incidents involving barrels of guns was from the red side of the political spectrum.  I don't recall the army shooting anyone. 

Suthep and his minions blocked government buildings and streets to shut down government, and used violence and intimidation to prevent an election.  A few hotheads, or agent provocateurs, used violence to protect democracy.  The minions used violence to defend their anti-democratic cause.  The military waited for things to spiral out of control, then, when that didn't happen, the protests were dying, and new elections are a real threat, staged a coup.

 

That's how I remember it.  But, if you are eager to justify a coup and stifling democracy, your recollection works.

[heybruce]

3 hours ago, robblok said:

Just let democracy have his chance again. We all know its not a real democracy just voting and then all checks and balances are gone. 

 

They all want to be in power to be able to steal as much money as they can and feed some scraps to the poor. Problem is that those not in power will find ways (violence included) to get in power. People will die again, but that is a small price to pay to only have a change in those stealing from the country is it not ?

 

Until corruption is cleaned up the violence and fake democracy will stay in Thailand. I don't see any changes and there are no non corrupt parties so nothing will change.. just other arrogant people in power filling up their bank accounts. 

 

But at least people can vote (not that it matters as the options are all tainted)

The military will not end corruption, it's too profitable for the generals.

 

Democracy, if allowed to mature, has a chance. It will have to stay in place long enough for the military experience in coups, and the Thai tolerance for coups, to fade--at least a generation.  There will have to be enough elections for the people to learn that their votes can really make a difference.  Then, when the people can demand an end to corruption, free of fear of another coup, elected officials will have to tackle corruption or make way for the new elected officials that will.

 

Democracy doesn't offer a quick fix to corruption or anything else.  But if offers the only realistic hope.

 

People who's only experience with democracy is in counties that are well past the difficult growing pains and learning experiences think democracy is easy.  It isn't.

[tryasimight]

29 minutes ago, heybruce said:

Suthep and his minions blocked government buildings and streets to shut down government, and used violence and intimidation to prevent an election.  A few hotheads, or agent provocateurs, used violence to protect democracy.  The minions used violence to defend their anti-democratic cause.  The military waited for things to spiral out of control, then, when that didn't happen, the protests were dying, and new elections are a real threat, staged a coup.

 

That's how I remember it.  But, if you are eager to justify a coup and stifling democracy, your recollection works.

Wow that's a leap from what I posted about barrels of guns.

To be expected though. 

 

Do love the 'few hotheads and agents provocateurs' reference. Doubt the BBC  could have put it better.  Others may have said child murdering scum. 

 

My post alluded to and supported nothing.

[tryasimight]

5 hours ago, mark131v said:

Aaah, selective memory again, are you going to run out the line about the RTA being forced to intervene as well? 

 

Figure RTA is not specific enough so a more appropriate description would probably be cretins in green, sorry for any confusion....

I don't believe I mentioned the RTA.   I simply posted what I saw about barrels of guns and who held said guns. Why get so emotional about it? 

[tryasimight]

55 minutes ago, heybruce said:

The military will not end corruption, it's too profitable for the generals.

 

Democracy, if allowed to mature, has a chance. It will have to stay in place long enough for the military experience in coups, and the Thai tolerance for coups, to fade--at least a generation.  There will have to be enough elections for the people to learn that their votes can really make a difference.  Then, when the people can demand an end to corruption, free of fear of another coup, elected officials will have to tackle corruption or make way for the new elected officials that will.

 

Democracy doesn't offer a quick fix to corruption or anything else.  But if offers the only realistic hope.

 

People who's only experience with democracy is in counties that are well past the difficult growing pains and learning experiences think democracy is easy.  It isn't.

Please post your experiences of the growing pains and learning of democracy in  other countries so we can all share. 

 

1:30 in the morning now in Myanmar..... Time for bed..... Interested to see what you have said in the morning my time.

Edited February 11, 2018 by tryasimight

[aboctok]

Did you say... hundreds? Someone possibly snorted his som tam everywhere, choking back a hearty laugh, when that news came through.

[joecoolfrog]

11 hours ago, ginjag said:

Just ridiculous I have no say,    Example UK   2 parties and both not fit.        Thailand is in the same position.   it is not about me.  but looks like it's about you and is reflected in your posts.    You firmly believe that elections take place  and that is automatically good governance  ??   and just   ???      Sheeple here  and no knowledge who is good or bad.

There are 8 major political parties in the UK not 2 !

[heybruce]

10 hours ago, tryasimight said:

From what I recall pre and post coup the vast majority of incidents involving barrels of guns was from the red side of the political spectrum.  I don't recall the army shooting anyone. 

 

5 hours ago, heybruce said:

Suthep and his minions blocked government buildings and streets to shut down government, and used violence and intimidation to prevent an election.  A few hotheads, or agent provocateurs, used violence to protect democracy.  The minions used violence to defend their anti-democratic cause.  The military waited for things to spiral out of control, then, when that didn't happen, the protests were dying, and new elections are a real threat, staged a coup.

 

That's how I remember it.  But, if you are eager to justify a coup and stifling democracy, your recollection works.

 

4 hours ago, tryasimight said:

Wow that's a leap from what I posted about barrels of guns.

To be expected though. 

 

Do love the 'few hotheads and agents provocateurs' reference. Doubt the BBC  could have put it better.  Others may have said child murdering scum. 

 

My post alluded to and supported nothing.

Your post alluded to violence on one side and ignored Thailand's long history of the military (others might have used journalist and nurse murdering scum) using whatever excuse it could manufacture to stage a coup.  Will you next tell us the military in Thailand has never used its guns on protesters calling for elections?

Edited February 11, 2018 by heybruce

[Keesters]

An election so that another corrupt, money greedy, false promises, lying, cheating, imbecile of a so-called politician can be voted in to run the country.

 

There should be NO election until honest, decent, well educated, not-self interested, incorruptible candidates can be found. Good luck with that.

 

The people MUST not be allowed to make the same mistakes as in the past.

,

[heybruce]

5 hours ago, heybruce said:

The military will not end corruption, it's too profitable for the generals.

 

Democracy, if allowed to mature, has a chance. It will have to stay in place long enough for the military experience in coups, and the Thai tolerance for coups, to fade--at least a generation.  There will have to be enough elections for the people to learn that their votes can really make a difference.  Then, when the people can demand an end to corruption, free of fear of another coup, elected officials will have to tackle corruption or make way for the new elected officials that will.

 

Democracy doesn't offer a quick fix to corruption or anything else.  But if offers the only realistic hope.

 

People who's only experience with democracy is in counties that are well past the difficult growing pains and learning experiences think democracy is easy.  It isn't.

 

4 hours ago, tryasimight said:

Please post your experiences of the growing pains and learning of democracy in  other countries so we can all share. 

 

1:30 in the morning now in Myanmar..... Time for bed..... Interested to see what you have said in the morning my time.

Please post your reasons why my post is inaccurate.  If you think your being in Myanmar makes you an expert in democracy, please explain.

[heybruce]

2 minutes ago, Keesters said:

An election so that another corrupt, money greedy, false promises, lying, cheating, imbecile of a so-called politician can be voted in to run the country.

 

There should be NO election until honest, decent, well educated, not-self interested, incorruptible candidates can be found. Good luck with that.

 

The people MUST not be allowed to make the same mistakes as in the past.

,

Yeah, right.  Much better to leave the army in control so its generals can keep buying expensive wristwatches.

[JAG]

5 hours ago, heybruce said:

Suthep and his minions blocked government buildings and streets to shut down government, and used violence and intimidation to prevent an election.  A few hotheads, or agent provocateurs, used violence to protect democracy.  The minions used violence to defend their anti-democratic cause.  The military waited for things to spiral out of control, then, when that didn't happen, the protests were dying, and new elections are a real threat, staged a coup.

 

That's how I remember it.  But, if you are eager to justify a coup and stifling democracy, your recollection works.

An accurate summary.

[LomSak27]

While you guys cut and paste and bicker, more is in the wind than this although the military tries  to quash the visible signs

A Yellow city that supported the coup. Now nothing but discontent and more, the young people High School grads, college and Uni are upset. The economy which they say is rosy is not and these scions of yellow family members are bitching about it, saying they (military) are ruining their future  ....... Wooops.

These are the people that forced the military to have a coup and were there main support. If you are losing them …  something could happen.

[robblok]

6 hours ago, tropo said:

You did say you supported the coup. Now you say "let democracy come back". LOL. As long as you support military takeovers for any reason you've killed democracy and any chance it will return (if it was ever here, to begin with). The only way for Thailand to become a democratic nation is to somehow subdue the power of military commanders. They have been in charge since Thailand became a constitutional monarchy (75 years). They were the architects of the constitutional monarchy. How would you take their power away? How could you?

 

I know everyone wants new elections, but what's the point really? Any elected government serves at the pleasure of the military commander. It's a merry-go-round in a circus. There's got to be another name for this type of government, but let's not call it democracy.

 

 

 

 

Tropo, democracy or not.. it still stays the same.. the ones in power.. either the generals or the politicians rape the treasury. What is the point ? I have yet to see democratic governments (and junta) go after their own for corruption. The generals don't force the politicians to steal.. nothing stops them from being honest. But they never are (just like the army). 

[PattayaAngel]

1 hour ago, Keesters said:

An election so that another corrupt, money greedy, false promises, lying, cheating, imbecile of a so-called politician can be voted in to run the country.

 

There should be NO election until honest, decent, well educated, not-self interested, incorruptible candidates can be found. Good luck with that.

 

The people MUST not be allowed to make the same mistakes as in the past.

,

 

yea those pesky "people" only the elite should rule right?  can't be letting those "people" have a say as they have no clue!  born to rule IS the rule right?

[Antioc]

13 hours ago, debate101 said:

The paid Thai-military cyber warfare trolls are out in force today to try to muddy the waters. Not everyone who posts pro-junta rhetoric falls into this category, but there are at least a handful, even native English speakers.

And you actually have evidence of this? 

Your argument is common of those who's own views, from time to time, are contradicted.  The old fall-back argument is to blame a sinister adversary and promote asinine theories that suggest that no-one should dare challenge the view held by yourself. 

I am not so  insecure as to believe that my comments fall into the bracket your hinting at, however, I do ask, have you ever read Plato's 'Republic'. 

Are you suggesting that Donald Trump started his campaign on an equal footing with someone who had no wealth, influence or power?  What made him immune to prosecution on sexual misconduct charges even after admitting them in public?

Is it true that you can only vote for the people who end up on the Ballot Paper?

There are learned people who agree in this post, as I do, that in a democracy the best we, as ordinary citizens, can do is remove a Political Party from office at election time. 

Have a look at the idiots in the Australian System.  I watched their news and political comment last night.  The biggest issue there is the Deputy Prime Minister's new pregnant girlfriend and two jobs she has.  There is also a debate that been going for 50 or so years about rights for indigenous people in that country.  It's laughable, either their indigenous folk don't wish to improve their lot after having the highest per-capita spend on them in the countries entire history, or they are some sub-species of human that really is incapable of progressing beyond a certain point.

Meanwhile China is powering ahead, Thailand is improving it's infrastructure at a mind boggling pace and other countries like India are doing the same.  Makes democracy look a bit weak and ancient don't you think?  Especially when you consider that a democracy like Australia doesn't even have one fast train in the entire country?

Personally, as I stated previously on this topic, I don't agree with authoritarian rule - it's gone badly wrong in a lot of instances, but it just might be the new alternative for many. 

But back to your comment - some people like the color blue, others don't and prefer green for example.  Some enjoy curries while others don't.  Some have one particular political stance but others disagree.  Isn't it a great world?  I love living in such a diverse environment where reasonable people accept that it is the norm to take a contra stance occasionally.

Sorry about the lecture but you did invite it.

[brucec64]

3 hours ago, Keesters said:

An election so that another corrupt, money greedy, false promises, lying, cheating, imbecile of a so-called politician can be voted in to run the country.

 

There should be NO election until honest, decent, well educated, not-self interested, incorruptible candidates can be found. Good luck with that.

 

The people MUST not be allowed to make the same mistakes as in the past.

,

"An election so that another corrupt, money greedy, false promises, lying, cheating, imbecile of a so-called politician can be voted in to run the country."

 

As opposed to another corrupt, money greedy, false promises, lying, cheating, imbecile of a so-called "general turned politician" who can run the country without being voted in?