Thaivisa exclusive: Aussie bound biker stranded in Thailand talks to Thaivisa after being dumped off plane in Bangkok

[Donotdisturb]

1 hour ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Members of outlaw motorcycle gangs should not be allowed into Thailand. If they are, they should be made stay within the confines of Pattaya where the rest of the world's criminal rejects/perverts reside, along with the prostitutes and criminals of Thailand. OK, I know there is 1 % that are there for the nice beach.

Soooo very wrong and ignorant u are!!! 1% for the nice beach. 1% for the mesmerizing temples. 1% for the world class dental jobs. And 1% for the great food!!!! ?

[samran]

10 minutes ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

Unless you are a citizen -- you do not have a permanent right to reside regardless of actions.  If you want to ensure that right -- you should become a citizen (without committing fraud).  Permanent residency only grants you residence (and the right to work) without having to go through a regular approval process to remain, but permanent residency has always had the issue that if you commit a significant criminal offence (assault would count) you would no longer be abiding by the conditions of that permit.  If you are a member of an organized criminal organization -- I would think that would be more than sufficient to void conditions as part of the permit.

 

If you are in the country, you have the right to appeal the process and typically reside until it is complete.  If however you leave during that time, you do not maintain that right to reside until the appeal is processed (it is pretty normal process in most countries).  

you aren't telling me anything I don't know.

 

The irony of all this is that for all the chest beating about migrants not integrating, the biggest group of migrants to oz who never end up apply for citizenship at the Brits.

 

Everything thing you say is fine for the most part, but what gets me is the the lack of due process. In particular, the 'good character clause' can be abused, and then there is basically no due process given it is at the Ministers whim.

 

I know why the rule exists, and don't necessarily have a good alternative for it, but at the same time we are supposed to be a democracy with checks and balances with the judiciary making decisions on people criminality, rather than populist politicians. 

[mommysboy]

1 minute ago, samran said:

you aren't telling me anything I don't know.

 

The irony of all this is that for all the chest beating about migrants not integrating, the biggest group of migrants to oz who never end up apply for citizenship at the Brits.

 

Everything thing you say is fine for the most part, but what gets me is the the lack of due process. In particular, the 'good character clause' can be abused, and then there is basically no due process given it is at the Ministers whim.

 

I know why the rule exists, and don't necessarily have a good alternative for it, but at the same time we are supposed to be a democracy with checks and balances with the judiciary making decisions on people criminality, rather than populist politicians. 

Yes the lack of due process should bother everyone.

[bkkcanuck8]

7 minutes ago, samran said:

you aren't telling me anything I don't know.

 

The irony of all this is that for all the chest beating about migrants not integrating, the biggest group of migrants to oz who never end up apply for citizenship at the Brits.

 

Everything thing you say is fine for the most part, but what gets me is the the lack of due process. In particular, the 'good character clause' can be abused, and then there is basically no due process given it is at the Ministers whim.

 

I know why the rule exists, and don't necessarily have a good alternative for it, but at the same time we are supposed to be a democracy with checks and balances with the judiciary making decisions on people criminality, rather than populist politicians. 

If you are residing in Australia at the time of the revocation - you have the right to appeal it.  During this time period you do not travel outside the country.  I was under the same situation in the United States when my renewal of my work permit was rejected (the person felt the job description was not written to a very narrow description).  During this time I knew not to travel outside the country.  

 

He still has the right to appeal IF he has a nominee or sponsor submit it on his behalf.  So although the appeals process is narrow, there is one -- even for ministerial revocations.  (the law dates to 1958). Remember most immigration appeals do not go through the judiciary because issuing and revoking visas and permanent residence permits -- is all administrative law -- as such he has to appeal it to Administrative Appeals Tribunal.  

 

I can already tell you he has no chance of succeeding on the appeal since he has a "significant criminal record".  Visa's and permits to stay in a country are a "privilege" not a "right".  It only becomes a "right" with citizenship.

 

You have no "right" to visit or "reside" in a foreign country, as such being a foreigner it is in your best behaviour to approach your stay as a "guest" with due respect for the country.

[thaiguzzi]

3 hours ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

Not sure of exact laws (where right the right to freely associate intersects with criminal conspiracy).  

 

If the overall organization exists as a criminal organization (organized crime) and you are in a position of power or management, then any crime committed in the furtherance the person in charge would surely be guilty of conspiracy or accessory (before or after) the fact....  

 

Most organized criminal organizations have tended to follow the standards set by the Italian mafia, whereby to get any position within the organized crime you must have committed a significant criminal act (usually murder at the order of) to ensure that you have skin in the game.  There is usually a layer beneath the criminal organization that have not met the requirements and are only really associates (pre-membership kept at a distance until they have skin in the game).  Of course anyone who does not direct someone else cannot be arrested just for that association - they have to be arrested for a criminal act.  The higher you are in the organization the more subordinates you have and the more responsible you are for there behaviour in furtherance of criminal activity.  

 

If the overall purpose of the organization is for organized crime -- it would be a little naive that a person would just be a member and not really involved in the conspiracy... especially someone who is a member for a significant amount of time.

You don't know what you are talking about.

You are making it up as you go along.

 

4 hours ago, Air Smiles said:

What percentage of the RMC membership would you estimate as having criminal records or having being involved in criminal activity?

I would guestimate an average of 20-25% of individual members of most back patch clubs are "individually" up to illegal activity.

I would further guestimate, if you include D&D, theft, assault, gbh and other "minor" crimes, that probably 35- 50% of members have a criminal record.

As you can see in the above figures, some people in the club may be up to no good, whilst others hold down jobs, and whilst others are self employed, and many (up to half) may have a criminal record (not difficult), none of these figures prove it is a "criminal organization". Hence why I can't think off the top of my head that a complete chapter, anywhere, has been prosecuted in such a manner. Successfully. Individual members yes, whole club, no.

[MyFriend You]

On 2/17/2018 at 9:58 AM, impulse said:

 

In 29 years of AA, I've met dozens, if not hundreds of guys whose history was a lot worse, and who looked a lot scarier.  A lot of them had turned their lives around and become model citizens and inspirations for others who want out of that life.  And I would (and have) trusted many of them with my life, and welcomed them into my home.

 

I don't know this guy.  But I'm not going to judge him based on what he may have been or done 20+ years ago.

 

Admirable  but a shave and a haircut, and lose the wife beater T-Shirt goes a long way to convince people you have really changed, he mentioned he wanted to have the tattoos removed, a very painful procedure, my ex-wife had her boyfriends name removed from her thigh  -  took 3 months to heal, and left a horrible scar.........

[ericthai]

On 2/18/2018 at 1:08 AM, Media1 said:

You naive bro..i can get a visa and show nothing through contacts no more than 10000 baht a year

if you do it yourself the cost is almost half of that.

[halloween]

On 2/17/2018 at 8:28 PM, car720 said:

I have had PR for 65 years and no citizenship.

You have to vote if you are a citizen and I don't believe a basically honest man should have to choose between 2 proven liars.

If you were a citizen you would know there is no compulsion to vote, only to have your name crossed off at the polling station. Good luck on your next o/s trip.

[halloween]

On 2/18/2018 at 1:50 AM, frank0424 said:

Also says he has been working for the same company for the last 35 years

But in what position? Failing to upgrade his citizenship shows a definite lack of ambition.

[Dexlowe]

7 minutes ago, halloween said:

But in what position? Failing to upgrade his citizenship shows a definite lack of ambition.

Transport manager for Rebel Importers and Distributors Co Ltd.

[halloween]

On 2/18/2018 at 2:01 AM, thaiguzzi said:

So it would be fine if he wore a long sleeved shirt? Then you could not see them, and he would have a "very high mentality"....

 

Believe me, the safest neighborhoods in any city in any country are the ones that have a back patch mc clubhouse there.

Ask any normal 9-5 family who lives near a mc clubhouse in an inner city area - no street crime - happy neighbors.

And if you have a complaint about late night exhaust noise, occasional drive by shootings, drunken brawls and drug dealing to your children, just knock on the clubhouse door for a warm reception.

[halloween]

9 hours ago, thaiguzzi said:

You don't know what you are talking about.

You are making it up as you go along.

 

I would guestimate an average of 20-25% of individual members of most back patch clubs are "individually" up to illegal activity.

I would further guestimate, if you include D&D, theft, assault, gbh and other "minor" crimes, that probably 35- 50% of members have a criminal record.

As you can see in the above figures, some people in the club may be up to no good, whilst others hold down jobs, and whilst others are self employed, and many (up to half) may have a criminal record (not difficult), none of these figures prove it is a "criminal organization". Hence why I can't think off the top of my head that a complete chapter, anywhere, has been prosecuted in such a manner. Successfully. Individual members yes, whole club, no.

Having an occupation, even minimum wage employment, makes it much more difficult to prove income was gained from illegal activity. Self employment in cash businesses (such as tattoo parlours) is preferred, you can even "employ" a few of your mates.

[ttrd]

15 hours ago, balo said:

No need for that , he paid AUS $2000 for a lawyer to arrange a 1 year visa. A visa agent will do the same for less than 20k baht. 

 

This is the price of being a member of a Brotherhood and what to expect - cheaters will always cheat including eachother ....

[eggers]

On 18/02/2018 at 3:15 AM, ericthai said:

if he can show he gets more than 65K THB per month he can qualify. 

Yes aware of that, but doubt that was way it was done!! 

[ttrd]

16 minutes ago, eggers said:

Yes aware of that, but doubt that was way it was done!! 

Of course not - he cannot make Reference to an Income which require him to be back in Australia and work....

 

It is as well stated in the article that he is running out of Money which again confirms that he didnt have 800k/thb in a bank acount.

 

So, he did NOT qualify for neither of the 2 options (800k/thb in bank or 65k/thb Income).....

Edited February 20, 2018 by ttrd

[tingtongtourist]

5 minutes ago, ttrd said:

Of course not - he cannot make Reference to an Income which require him to be back in Australia and work....

 

It is as well stated in the article that he is running out of Money which confirm that he didnt have 800k/thb in a bank acount.

 

So, he did NOT qualify for neither of the 2 options (800h/thb in bank or 65k/thb Income).....

You would think a good working class Aussie guys working for many years with family, (and wife probably working), would have savings and does not have to live from week to week?

maybe we soon see him on go-fund me or one of these other lovely e-begging sites.

 

dont think people will be quite so generous with this character as they was with Graham Briar tho

 

[car720]

16 hours ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

It is fine being on a PR for 65 years if that is what you want, but when someone does that they have to realize that they don't have the same rights to reside in the country if they violate the law... anyone on a PR or other visa may be deported if they have a criminal record (depending on the country it could be minor or major offences).  The fact he joined a criminal organization while not having citizenship to protect their right to remain... shows either a level of arrogance or stupidity. 

Not completely correct.  Australia regularly revokes the citizenship of people born overseas.

[car720]

2 hours ago, halloween said:

If you were a citizen you would know there is no compulsion to vote, only to have your name crossed off at the polling station. Good luck on your next o/s trip.

Why?

[Will27]

40 minutes ago, car720 said:

Not completely correct.  Australia regularly revokes the citizenship of people born overseas.

I don't think they do TBH.

 

Unless you obtain your citizenship fraudulently or are convicted of terrorism related crimes, it doesn't happen

that much, if any I think.

 

[wildewillie89]

The clubs, who even themselves admit, just left defending themselves too long. The media had all the chances in the world and jumped on the opportunity to label them as criminal gangs. Some members of the groups didn't help the ease of generating the image by being involved in public illegal activity. From the government/police point of view, they seem to think they have the intelligence that a lot of it has moved away from just loving bikes and moved into making money in questionable ways. 

If the law is just based on his own involvement in criminal activity then fair game to the government to do what they have to do. Bike clubs have had a lot of attention for a long time now (whether rightly or wrongly), so members have had a lot of warning to make sure they are squeaky clean. If it is purely based on the fact he is connected with a bike club then not fair game. However, I feel there would be current investigations not open to the public which has formed the decision in the end, rather than he is just a member of a motorcycle club. He can fight that in the courts. 

Your actions always catch up with you. Yes, people deserve second chances. However, when you know you are not a citizen, you know you have previous serious convictions and you know you have a family, then that should be enough to make the decision to leave. Seems the decision for him to leave the club is very easy now once he is facing consequences. Should have done it for your family before. 

[sanuk711]

4 hours ago, halloween said:

If you were a citizen you would know there is no compulsion to vote, only to have your name crossed off at the polling station. Good luck on your next o/s trip.

I dont think that's correct halloween...(although they certainly can not tell if you just defaced the vote paper, when you have entered the booth.)

The compulsory vote as I am sure you know is for a reason that has nothing to do with representation or with Democracy....Just with the amount of money each vote is worth.

 

Yes, under federal electoral law, it is compulsory for all eligible Australian citizens to enrol and vote in federal elections, by-elections and referendums.14 Feb 2017

Voting within Australia – Frequently Asked Questions - Australian ...

www.aec.gov.au/FAQs/Voting_Australia.htmView Similar Sites

 

[halloween]

18 minutes ago, sanuk711 said:

I dont think that's correct halloween...(although they certainly can not tell if you just defaced the vote paper, when you have entered the booth.)

The compulsory vote as I am sure you know is for a reason that has nothing to do with representation or with Democracy....Just with the amount of money each vote is worth.

 

Yes, under federal electoral law, it is compulsory for all eligible Australian citizens to enrol and vote in federal elections, by-elections and referendums.14 Feb 2017

Voting within Australia – Frequently Asked Questions - Australian ...

www.aec.gov.au/FAQs/Voting_Australia.htmView Similar Sites

 

Yes, that is what they tell you, but after having your name crossed off and being handed a ballot paper(s) there is no compulsion to fill it out correctly or deposit it. Compare this to Thailand, where destroying or defacing your ballot paper is an offence that could have (and has) the voter

arrested and charged.

[samran]

2 hours ago, tingtongtourist said:

You would think a good working class Aussie guys working for many years with family, (and wife probably working), would have savings and does not have to live from week to week?

maybe we soon see him on go-fund me or one of these other lovely e-begging sites.

 

dont think people will be quite so generous with this character as they was with Graham Briar tho

 

Thing is, he was never an Aussie. Just a Brit with an Australian accent. 

2 hours ago, car720 said:

Not completely correct.  Australia regularly revokes the citizenship of people born overseas.

Not true. Recent changes to citizenship laws mean this can only be done when terrorism is involved, and importantly,  you have a second citizenship so you can be deported back to that country. 

[Blackheart1916]

3 hours ago, tingtongtourist said:

You would think a good working class Aussie guys working for many years with family, (and wife probably working), would have savings and does not have to live from week to week?

maybe we soon see him on go-fund me or one of these other lovely e-begging sites.

 

dont think people will be quite so generous with this character as they was with Graham Briar tho

 

"e-begging" - I love it, best description I have seen!

[bkkcanuck8]

4 hours ago, car720 said:

Not completely correct.  Australia regularly revokes the citizenship of people born overseas.

Which is why I stated earlier that they should get citizenship WITHOUT committing fraud.  

 

As part of getting citizenship (current) (through the Pledge of Commitment) you pledge (as part of citizenship) to be loyal to Australia and it's people, whose democratic beliefs I share, whose rights and liberties I respect, and whose laws I will uphold and obey".  If you took that pledge and at that time you were an enemy agent (ISIS, Al Qaeda, Red Brigade etc.) whose stated aims are contrary to the pledge then you are getting citizenship fraudulently.  If you falsify documents, you are getting citizenship fraudulently.  Any benefits received through fraud should be legally able to be removed.

[lvr181]

21 hours ago, MrPatrickThai said:

Members of outlaw motorcycle gangs should not be allowed into Thailand. If they are, they should be made stay within the confines of Pattaya where the rest of the world's criminal rejects/perverts reside, along with the prostitutes and criminals of Thailand. OK, I know there is 1 % that are there for the nice beach.

BTW - where is that beach?

[farangx]

21 hours ago, bkkcanuck8 said:

Unless you are a citizen -- you do not have a permanent right to reside regardless of actions.  If you want to ensure that right -- you should become a citizen (without committing fraud).  Permanent residency only grants you residence (and the right to work) without having to go through a regular approval process to remain, but permanent residency has always had the issue that if you commit a significant criminal offence (assault would count) you would no longer be abiding by the conditions of that permit.  If you are a member of an organized criminal organization -- I would think that would be more than sufficient to void conditions as part of the permit.

 

If you are in the country, you have the right to appeal the process and typically reside until it is complete.  If however you leave during that time, you do not maintain that right to reside until the appeal is processed (it is pretty normal process in most countries).  

Oz permanent residency is just another form of visa, with the right to stay and work like a citizen but without the right to vote.  As with any visa, it can be revoke and not renew.  It is obvious that he was under the authorities radar and got flagged as an "undesirable".  What better way to get rid of him by denying him re-entry into the country.  Doing that on Australian soil would require resources and taxpayers money.  He can appeal of course but that be at an Australian embassy.  Also Thai immigration can deny him re-entry once he leaves, or he may be ask to leave.  In the meantime I would suggest he change his appearance here and keep a low profile, like done a robe or change the colors of his tattoos to make them less visible ....

[ttrd]

3 minutes ago, farangx said:

Oz permanent residency is just another form of visa, with the right to stay and work like a citizen but without the right to vote.  As with any visa, it can be revoke and not renew.  It is obvious that he was under the authorities radar and got flagged as an "undesirable".  What better way to get rid of him by denying him re-entry into the country.  Doing that on Australian soil would require resources and taxpayers money.  He can appeal of course but that be at an Australian embassy.  Also Thai immigration can deny him re-entry once he leaves, or he may be ask to leave.  In the meantime I would suggest he change his appearance here and keep a low profile, like done a robe or change the colors of his tattoos to make them less visible ....

Anyway he will keep a low profile as it was stated he is running out of Money....

[BKK1969]

7 hours ago, Will27 said:

I don't think they do TBH.

 

Unless you obtain your citizenship fraudulently or are convicted of terrorism related crimes, it doesn't happen

that much, if any I think.

 

Pretty sure that obtaining citizenship by fraud is the yardstick for reversing it and it’s rare.

These bikie folks make most of the Perth money from selling amphetamine like drugs and that’s why he’s persona non grata.

 

[ttrd]

17 minutes ago, BKK1969 said:

Pretty sure that obtaining citizenship by fraud is the yardstick for reversing it and it’s rare.

These bikie folks make most of the Perth money from selling amphetamine like drugs and that’s why he’s persona non grata.

 

Thailand seems to welcome all the non grata labelled  - maybe they have overlooked NON and just focused on GRATA...??...