Running Injury - Some advice before doctor.

[BBJ]

1 hour ago, yogavnture said:

im confused . u said u were doing long runs. and u were not using proper shoes?  i have used shoes that have sat in box longer than that. shouldn't be an issue. the issue is u were running before with out proper running shoes/?  i sounds like u are buying a cross trainer machine/?           shoe brands are personal preference.  but if u gonna run get the best pair u can find.  maybe thier is a shop in BKK that sells most major brands and u can try out. im a nike lover. with full air cushioning but spokane al is not. everybody does their own thing

When I first started running, I ran bare foot as it felt more natural to me.  After my right foot started to feel bruised, I used my running shoes which I purchased over 2 years ago with the intent to run then.  I didn’t.  After switching to running shoes, my left foot started.

 

Following advice and comments here, I will be buying a crosstrainer as part of my routine.

 

I understand shoes are vital as they are in tennis, Zola Bud felt more natural at the time.

 

Pain is on top of my foot around the shoe lace area, not the ball of my foot.

 

If a detail I missed in early posts, I am not sure where the confusion is?

[BBJ]

The swimming, cycling and ice is working.  I can walk ok at the moment.  I will continue this for a while.

[Radar501]

Question to the keen runners out there.

 

I am your classic molly dooker.   Left-footed, left-handed, dominant left eye, I even chew on the left side of my mouth,

 

My passion for middle distance jogging has consumed countless pairs of runners over the years.   Without exception, my right shoe has always worn out well before my left ,especially the tread.

 

I think I run in a relaxed manner with a symmetrical gait.   I often check myself when I pass by a shop window (don't we all?) and I don't seem to favour either leg.    If there was an imperceptible  difference,  I would have envisaged my left shoe pounding the pavement a little harder than my right, and so, lose rubber quicker.   But not so.  

 

Does anyone else here experience uneven wear in their shoes, with the less-dominant side copping more of the damage, as in my case?

 

RUNNING.   IT'S NOT ABOUT HAVING TIME.   IT'S ABOUT MAKING TIME

[SpokaneAl]

When I first started running, I ran bare foot as it felt more natural to me.  After my right foot started to feel bruised, I used my running shoes which I purchased over 2 years ago with the intent to run then.  I didn’t.  After switching to running shoes, my left foot started.
 
Following advice and comments here, I will be buying a crosstrainer as part of my routine.
 
I understand shoes are vital as they are in tennis, Zola Bud felt more natural at the time.
 
Pain is on top of my foot around the shoe lace area, not the ball of my foot.
 
If a detail I missed in early posts, I am not sure where the confusion is?

Pain in the top part of your foot - have you tried different lacing techniques?

https://www.heandsheeatclean.com/blog/2014/08/how-to-lace-your-running-workout-shoes


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[SpokaneAl]

Question to the keen runners out there.
 
I am your classic molly dooker.   Left-footed, left-handed, dominant left eye, I even chew on the left side of my mouth,
 
My passion for middle distance jogging has consumed countless pairs of runners over the years.   Without exception, my right shoe has always worn out well before my left ,especially the tread.
 
I think I run in a relaxed manner with a symmetrical gait.   I often check myself when I pass by a shop window (don't we all?) and I don't seem to favour either leg.    If there was an imperceptible  difference,  I would have envisaged my left shoe pounding the pavement a little harder than my right, and so, lose rubber quicker.   But not so.  
 
Does anyone else here experience uneven wear in their shoes, with the less-dominant side copping more of the damage, as in my case?
 
RUNNING.   IT'S NOT ABOUT HAVING TIME.   IT'S ABOUT MAKING TIME

I often show more wear on my right foot tread vs. my left foot tread. With no pains nor injuries, I don’t worry about it.


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[BBJ]

51 minutes ago, SpokaneAl said:

 

Pain in the top part of your foot - have you tried different lacing techniques?

https://www.heandsheeatclean.com/blog/2014/08/how-to-lace-your-running-workout-shoes


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Yes, it was mentioned in a prior post.  Something I will look into with my new shoes.  Thanks

[Issanjohn]

On February 21, 2018 at 11:31 AM, yogavnture said:

im not saying nike is best of course each brand the last of the shoe is difffeent ...........what i am saying if u look into air technologgy. is that air is the best hands down. would u want to walk on gel or air.? no brainer. i think nikes air patents should be dismantled. its about getting product to consumers. not lining nikes pockets

I always preferred New Balance and Brooks.  Although with New Balance you have to be very careful about choosing the correct width.  In Afghanistan once I bought a pair of New Balance shoes that were the wrong width and I used to run all around Kandahar Airfield every morning whenever I could and those shoes REALLY TORE MY FEET UP.  So what I did was I bought the right pair of shoes for my feet online and had them shipped to my APO address.  

 

Personally I've never used Nike before but if that's what works for you them wear Nike it depends on your feet.  Some people think that all the running shoes are all made in the same factories in this part of the world and that they're all the same and that is SO UNTRUE.  Using the wrong running shoes that aren't right for how your feet are built such as if you're flat footed or have a high arch or whatever the case maybe can really do damage to your feet especially if you're a really hard corps runner like I used to be.  But yeah if Nike works for you use Nike.  

[Issanjohn]

On February 21, 2018 at 11:35 AM, yogavnture said:

dosent mean u cant take up swimming. a coyote is in all 50 states in usa because of its ability to adapt to conditions.  just because a person cant run anymore dont mean life is over

Oh I know and I actually do swim whenever I have a chance to get to the pool.  Although I truly enjoyed running I always felt so powerful when running.  I used to do marathons as well as countless other half marathons and shorter races such as 10 milers and 10Ks.  I used to run competitively all over Washington, D.C. and Baltimore.

 

I could always pull a 5 to 6 minute mile for up to 16 to 18 miles before I'd start to burn out and slow down.  I always used to hit my wall between miles 16 and 18 after about around 30 kilometers.  For me running was like one of my favorite hobbies and now it's gone.  

 

I've ran 5 marathons:

 

1. The Marine CORPS Marathon in Washington, D.C. 

 

2. The National Marathon in Washington, D.C. 

 

3. The Baltimore Marathon

 

4. The Bangkok Marathon 

 

5. My last marathon was the Tokyo Marathon the last day of February 2011.  I remember that because we were living in Tokyo at the time and a few weeks later on March 11th 2011 we had the 9.0 Magnitude super earthquake in Japan, and the tsnami up in Sendai, and of course Fukushima.  For months after that day we'd get at least 2 aftershocks a day and they would have rolling blackouts almost every night.  Some of the aftershocks were even 7.0 magnitude.  On March 11th 2011 when the big one hit I remember the ground began shaking and earthquakes are common in Japan you get used to them.  Although this one the ground started shacking harder and harder and harder.  Most of the quakes would only last 5 to 10 seconds 30 seconds max but this one it was like a full minute went by and the ground was still rocking, then after 2 minutes the ground was still rocking, then after 3 minutes it was absolutely unbelievable.  Finally after around 5 whole minutes it stopped.  I knew it was going to be bad I remember saying that a tsunami would be coming.  Unfortunately for thousands of people I was right.  I knew we had never experienced a quake that huge before.  It turned out to be the 3rd most powerful earthquake in recorded history. So we actually lived through all that.  

 

I remember I was still limping around because I had recently ran the Tokyo Matathon and that was when my hip originally blew out on me.  My right hip was actually going bad before the marathon in January 2011 but I ran the Tokyo Marathon anyway.  My hip had been slowly going bad on me for years prior to that.  I recall having sever pain in my right hip for weeks after one of my Afghanistan tours.  By 2013 my right hip totally blew out on me and my doctors have said that I may require an artificial hip in the next 5 to ten years if I over do it.  Just walking on it I can feel the bone on bone where the cartilage has worn out among other problems with it such as a torn labrum or something.  After the Tokyo Marathon that was the worst pain I've ever felt in my right hip.  Then after a month it felt better so I would continue running and the pain would just come and go until it totally blew out a few years later.  When I ran I had an extremely wide gate (stride) which was part of what caused it.  I also used to jump out of airplanes for most of my career which took its toll on more than just my hip, my feet, knees, hips, and back as well.  Also in Special Forces especially in the training and in combat sometimes you have to walk on foot carrying over 200 pounds of gear and equipment which seriously breaks down your body over the years.  I also have no more cartilage in either one of my knees as well as multiple other medical problems so that definitely ended my running career and my military career as well but I had over 20 years in anyway so I retired and I collect disability as well with my pension.  My body has been through a lot I even have one Purple Heart from an incident in Iraq after pretty much getting blown up.  I was lucky to survive.  At least I still have both legs and arms so I'm one of the lucky ones I guess.  Actually I am extremely lucky overall I got to totally retire at 42 years old not many people get to do that.  

[BBJ]

I read about Brooks being a good choice.  I always thought they were a cheap brand like Gola in the UK.  I am out of touch with brands as I've always gone for Adidas with tennis.

 

^So with your injuries, what are you doing for exercise?

[SpokaneAl]

I read about Brooks being a good choice.  I always thought they were a cheap brand like Gola in the UK.  I am out of touch with brands as I've always gone for Adidas with tennis.

 

^So with your injuries, what are you doing for exercise?

 

Brooks is a well known shoe company that makes very fine running shoes. Not any more cheap or low end than any of the many other running shoe companies. I bought my first pair of Brooks running shoes back in 1978.

 

 

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[yogavnture]

4 hours ago, SpokaneAl said:

 

Brooks is a well known shoe company that makes very fine running shoes. Not any more cheap or low end than any of the many other running shoe companies. I bought my first pair of Brooks running shoes back in 1978.

 

 

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i bought my first nike in 77 :)

[SpokaneAl]

i bought my first nike in 77 :)

 

Waffle trainers? I have had a few pairs of those over the years.

 

 

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[YaiJung]

Pain on the top of the foot sounds like a stress fracture. It can take 3-4 months to recover from this. I am going through the same thing at the moment and have just started running again a month ago, after 3 months off. I tried to run too early and it just got worse. In the end I had to give in and spend one month without doing any sort of lower body cardio. Couldn't even bicycle. The second month I started going for long walks and doing some bicycling. After 3 months I started adding in some short, easy paced runs. Now ramping it up a bit and feeling great, although cautiously. Bicycling a couple times per week to mix it up.

It sounds like you were on the right track with the barefoot running and working on form. It is just that you progressed way to quickly. A common mistake many make because it can feel so incredible to start making progress with running. From no running at all to running 45-60 min should be a slow progression of 6 months to 1 year. You are building up muscles and tendons in places that have never been activated before, especially if you have worn modern cushioned 'supportive' shoes for many years.

Don't listen to this nonsense about getting cushioned running shoes and buying new pairs every 3 months or whatever. Total bs brought to us by the running shoe industry. Instead, once you are healed, start very slowly by walking barefoot (or in minimalist shoes) and aim to run no more than 30 min nonstop at the 3 month mark. Maybe even safer to aim for 30 min at 6 months. In the end, if you stick with it, the payoff will be huge and you will find yourself in incredible shape with very strong legs/feet.

In the meantime, lay off your feet as much as possible. Stress fractures can get much worse and require surgery/pins, if you aggravate them.

[SpokaneAl]

Pain on the top of the foot sounds like a stress fracture. It can take 3-4 months to recover from this. I am going through the same thing at the moment and have just started running again a month ago, after 3 months off. I tried to run too early and it just got worse. In the end I had to give in and spend one month without doing any sort of lower body cardio. Couldn't even bicycle. The second month I started going for long walks and doing some bicycling. After 3 months I started adding in some short, easy paced runs. Now ramping it up a bit and feeling great, although cautiously. Bicycling a couple times per week to mix it up.

It sounds like you were on the right track with the barefoot running and working on form. It is just that you progressed way to quickly. A common mistake many make because it can feel so incredible to start making progress with running. From no running at all to running 45-60 min should be a slow progression of 6 months to 1 year. You are building up muscles and tendons in places that have never been activated before, especially if you have worn modern cushioned 'supportive' shoes for many years.

Don't listen to this nonsense about getting cushioned running shoes and buying new pairs every 3 months or whatever. Total bs brought to us by the running shoe industry. Instead, once you are healed, start very slowly by walking barefoot (or in minimalist shoes) and aim to run no more than 30 min nonstop at the 3 month mark. Maybe even safer to aim for 30 min at 6 months. In the end, if you stick with it, the payoff will be huge and you will find yourself in incredible shape with very strong legs/feet.

In the meantime, lay off your feet as much as possible. Stress fractures can get much worse and require surgery/pins, if you aggravate them.

I agree with all your great points except for the shoe part. Minimalist/barefoot/cushioned shoes - it depends on the person. There is no one solution for everyone. I ran with minimal shoes for a couple of years had injuries. I went back to my normal cushioned shoes routine and all has been well for a number of years now.

Relax, look at this as a lifetime sport rather than some necessary drudgery, figure out what works for you, and keep moving forward.


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[BBJ]

My foot is not so good as it happens.  Took a walk shopping with my daughter at Fashion Island yesterday. 10 mins in I had to take the weight off my foot to the point my 5-year-old could walk faster than me.  In the meantime, I bought a cross-trainer.  I have a feeling I might also have to lay off for a while.

 

I haven't visited the doctor as yet as I was giving swimming a chance.  Will call this weekend if there is no progress.

 

Thanks all for the input anyway.  Next step is doctors.

 

[yogavnture]

On ‎2‎/‎24‎/‎2018 at 10:03 AM, YaiJung said:

Pain on the top of the foot sounds like a stress fracture. It can take 3-4 months to recover from this. I am going through the same thing at the moment and have just started running again a month ago, after 3 months off. I tried to run too early and it just got worse. In the end I had to give in and spend one month without doing any sort of lower body cardio. Couldn't even bicycle. The second month I started going for long walks and doing some bicycling. After 3 months I started adding in some short, easy paced runs. Now ramping it up a bit and feeling great, although cautiously. Bicycling a couple times per week to mix it up.

It sounds like you were on the right track with the barefoot running and working on form. It is just that you progressed way to quickly. A common mistake many make because it can feel so incredible to start making progress with running. From no running at all to running 45-60 min should be a slow progression of 6 months to 1 year. You are building up muscles and tendons in places that have never been activated before, especially if you have worn modern cushioned 'supportive' shoes for many years.

Don't listen to this nonsense about getting cushioned running shoes and buying new pairs every 3 months or whatever. Total bs brought to us by the running shoe industry. Instead, once you are healed, start very slowly by walking barefoot (or in minimalist shoes) and aim to run no more than 30 min nonstop at the 3 month mark. Maybe even safer to aim for 30 min at 6 months. In the end, if you stick with it, the payoff will be huge and you will find yourself in incredible shape with very strong legs/feet.

In the meantime, lay off your feet as much as possible. Stress fractures can get much worse and require surgery/pins, if you aggravate them.


 

he dosent know if he has any stress fracture as he has not gone to doctor. and dont listen to the bs above.......first go get a reliable diagnosis...........then get the most cushioned shoes u can find. i have been pushing nike because they easily have the most cushioning out thier.  full length air bladder.........do not and i repeat do not run barefoot.. nonsense

[yogavnture]

r u sure this injury was not from running barefoot. 

[dfdgfdfdgs]

Running barefoot works for some people.  I'm no expert but I think it would work best for lighter people, because there is less impact from your weight hitting the ground.  Also for people who have a lower stride - the people who skim across the ground rather than bounce.  Also depends on the surface - running barefoot on sand is fine and probably better than trainers.

 

Since swimming was mentioned... if your overall aim is to keep healthy and in shape and you don't really care what exercise you do, then swimming wins hands down compared to running.  When was the last time you heard of anybody getting an injury from swimming?  Compared to running?  Swimming works your whole body whereas running just works your lower half.  But some people prefer running, some people can't swim or their technique is so poor it's not fun for them, some people don't live near to a pool or the membership is expensive etc.

 

I try and do a bit of both.

[dfdgfdfdgs]

This thread inspired to me to have a go running barefoot properly (on tarmac).  Bar once or twice, I've only really run barefoot on sand before.

 

First run: about 7km, I wrapped my heel, ball of foot and big toe in duct/gaffa tape (to minimise blisters) and ran at the local park.  I didn't get as many strange looks as I was expecting, but then I run twice as fast as most of the Thais at the park so maybe they think I know what I'm doing.  Some blisters but not many.  Tight achilles after but generally the run felt easier than normal.

 

Second run:  about 7km, I didn't wrap as much, same amount of blisters as last time.  Very tight achilles for 1-2 days after.

 

Third run:  10km, didn't wrap, tight achilles during running but not painful.  Not really tight after.  An old groin injury flared up towards the end of this run (don't think anything to do with running barefoot.)  Very few blisters, I think my feet are used to it already and have toughened up.

 

I spaced the above runs about 3-4 days apart.  I usually run further but didn't want to overdo it too early.  Going forward I'll try and extend distance to near 21km and then compete in a half marathon (barefoot) to see how the time works out/see if I can beat my PB.  It definitely feels easier to run - maybe that's just because your feet are carrying around 400g less weight?  Big guys with strong/big legs might not notice the difference so much.

 

I read about wrapping your feet in gaffa tape online and it works okay but starts to peel off after a while so towards the end of my runs I just ripped it off.  I read about some Nike things called foot stickers - they're not really shoes, they stick on your feet, they don't fasten.  Might be worth experimenting with.

 

I think you have to start off with short distances when you first start running barefoot because of the blisters (nothing more than 10km.  But you can extend it as your feet toughen up.  I think it's going to take your muscles a while to adapt as you are using them in a way they haven't been used before, depending on the type of trainers you usually wear and how you run (what part of your foot you land on) etc.  For me I can definitely feel my achilles being used/stretched a lot more.  I think I land in the middle of my foot, not on the heel or toes.

[kekalot]

On 3/12/2018 at 10:21 PM, dfdgfdfdgs said:

This thread inspired to me to have a go running barefoot properly (on tarmac).  Bar once or twice, I've only really run barefoot on sand before.

*snip*

 

hey, I would like an update on that if you kept at it.

 

this is my experience:

 

I ran barefoot most of my running, always lost feet calluses in the winter when I wasn't running, sadly (I'm from Canada).
most people do not know how to walk anymore, let alone run. they heel strike on both due to shoes. I don't (not anymore)

 

I used to run 20m 5Ks on my lunch breaks at work quite often..

at the start of the "season" I would end up sometimes with some blisters (much less than I got with hot shoes).. once i had blood filled ones

 

I can recall about maybe 2 times that I hurt my feet on glass in the last 11 years. just very small shards, took them out.
I stepped on still lit cigarettes 2-3 times,  no needles or anything silly.

now in Thailand I have practically stopped running long distances (soi dogs) but still walk barefoot practically everywhere I go.

 

humans were walking and running barefoot for hundred of thousands of years before the invention of the "running shoes".

[BBJ]

19 minutes ago, kekalot said:

 

hey, I would like an update on that if you kept at it.

 

this is my experience:

 

I ran barefoot most of my running, always lost feet calluses in the winter when I wasn't running, sadly (I'm from Canada).
most people do not know how to walk anymore, let alone run. they heel strike on both due to shoes. I don't (not anymore)

 

I used to run 20m 5Ks on my lunch breaks at work quite often..

at the start of the "season" I would end up sometimes with some blisters (much less than I got with hot shoes).. once i had blood filled ones

 

I can recall about maybe 2 times that I hurt my feet on glass in the last 11 years. just very small shards, took them out.
I stepped on still lit cigarettes 2-3 times,  no needles or anything silly.

now in Thailand I have practically stopped running long distances (soi dogs) but still walk barefoot practically everywhere I go.

 

humans were walking and running barefoot for hundred of thousands of years before the invention of the "running shoes".

turns out it was inflammation.  Antibiotics sorted it and thus far it has been fine.  However, I get a severe shocking pain from time to time on the top of my small toe on the same foot.  And when I do work out, 15 mins in I cannot feel any of my toes on my left foot at all.  I have to bunch them up and open them to get some feeling back while on the elliptical machine.

 

As for working out, I have increased it with cycling 20mins and a 24-30 length swim which I do at least twice a week.  I am working out 5-6 times a week with at least one exercise routine.  Lost 7Kg since January.

[ncc1701d]

Antibiotics sorted the inflammation?

[dfdgfdfdgs]

Just now, kekalot said:

hey, I would like an update on that if you kept at it.

 

 

I'm only running barefoot now, not run in shoes for a couple of months.  The short of it is that I no longer get any injuries or pains.  My achilles does feel tight but not in a painful way, and it is less tight each time I run, I think this is the muscle gradually stretching over time - before it was supported by a big 2-3cm heel on a running shoe so didn't have to stretch as much.  The blisters are the only problem but I don't worry about them much because it's just superficial, it heals overnight.  Adding a plaster or two before you run, where you usually get the blisters (where your foot impacts the floor), lets you run a few km more before the blisters start.  For me that's my big toe, my second toe to a slightly lesser extent, and the ball of the foot.

 

I think the blisters are a good indication as to whether you will be okay running barefoot.  For people trying out barefoot running and getting blisters on their heels, that might suggest that barefoot running is not for them, because those people should probably have some protection between their heel and the road.

 

I ran a 10km race in 39 minutes recently (personal best for me but I don't usually run 10kms).  I'm yet to do a 21km barefoot, I think I might strap up with tape before that because the blisters at the end of that 10km were pretty bad because I was pushing quite hard.

 

For me it's not just the absence of shoes which feels better (lighter) but it's the increased training I'm able to do - before I was having to leave it 3-4 days or more between runs to try and avoid injuries/pain.  I feel I can run every day now without having to worry.

 

You mean you walk around Thailand barefoot?  You must get a lot of dodgy looks, to 99% of Thais I think no shoes = homeless or a monk.  At least when you're running at a park the worst they're going to think is that you forgot your running shoes...

[dfdgfdfdgs]

By the way I did try some Vibram five fingers shoes which are a minimalist type of shoe, but it just didn't feel as good as running completely barefoot.  It felt like my feet were kind of slapping the ground rather than gripping it.  Your toes don't fit inside the openings either, your big toe and second toe probably will but after that maybe not; I think the shoe is designed to accommodate every type of foot and that just means it doesn't properly accommodate any type of foot.

 

I would consider trying some other kind of minimalist shoe but without the 'fingers'.

[SpokaneAl]

By the way I did try some Vibram five fingers shoes which are a minimalist type of shoe, but it just didn't feel as good as running completely barefoot.  It felt like my feet were kind of slapping the ground rather than gripping it.  Your toes don't fit inside the openings either, your big toe and second toe probably will but after that maybe not; I think the shoe is designed to accommodate every type of foot and that just means it doesn't properly accommodate any type of foot.

 

I would consider trying some other kind of minimalist shoe but without the 'fingers'.

 

I have a number of friends who swear by these, and race up to and including 100 milers and more. https://lunasandals.com

 

 

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[BBJ]

20 hours ago, dfdgfdfdgs said:

By the way I did try some Vibram five fingers shoes which are a minimalist type of shoe, but it just didn't feel as good as running completely barefoot.  It felt like my feet were kind of slapping the ground rather than gripping it.  Your toes don't fit inside the openings either, your big toe and second toe probably will but after that maybe not; I think the shoe is designed to accommodate every type of foot and that just means it doesn't properly accommodate any type of foot.

 

I would consider trying some other kind of minimalist shoe but without the 'fingers'.

I use Terra Planar and Vivo Barefoot for casual.  Considering there running shoes as they have been very comfortable to me.https://www.vivobarefoot.com/uk?gclid=Cj0KCQjwzIzWBRDnARIsAAkc8hGc_k8taHXNu9MPKTahfwrX8Cvka0Q76jzjiD6mCrA-CkGfZi1-I3kaAoipEALw_wcB

 

 

 

[BBJ]

On 4/2/2018 at 6:12 PM, ncc1701d said:

Antibiotics sorted the inflammation?

I meant anti-inflammatory.  I was reading an article about antibiotics at the time.

[InMyShadow]

Join a gym and use a treadmill or bike etc . Your joints will love you and you will burn exactly the same number of calories in air condition comfort

[SpokaneAl]

Join a gym and use a treadmill or bike etc . Your joints will love you and you will burn exactly the same number of calories in air condition comfort

Oh no, not the old discarded “running will ruin your joints” argument!


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[InMyShadow]

Oh no, not the old discarded “running will ruin your joints” argument!


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Depends if your a fat pig or not