How Much Time Needed To Reach Poh. 6?

[kriswillems]

How much time does the average farang need to reach poh.6 level (12 years old Thai child) Thai speaking, reading and writing?

Taking into account that this farangs could study full time (in a classroom, not private).

Did anyone on this forum reach this level?

How did you do it?

I can read a bit, write a bit and speak a bit but I seem to be stuck at this level.

[tgeezer]

How much time does the average farang need to reach poh.6 level (12 years old Thai child) Thai speaking, reading and writing?

Taking into account that this farangs could study full time (in a classroom, not private).

Did anyone on this forum reach this level?

How did you do it?

I can read a bit, write a bit and speak a bit but I seem to be stuck at this level.

Probably never. My experience is that I want to understand too much. I have been visiting Thailand for over twenty years and started with the AUA for three months. I liked the caligraphy and copied a lot, I didn't retain much, but I was only trying to learn in spurts and there are a lot of other things to do. I don't think kids are in the main really interested in learning language except for passing the exams, the retained stuff is what is used in daily life. I am reading a P3 book at the moment "ภาษา พาที "and instead of rushing through it as a kid would I still get bogged down wondering why it is titled as it is what the introduction says etc and then with understanding every group of words which in English would be expressed in just one word. The kids don't read any of this. I don't believe that you need to be gifted to learn language, kids can do it! Sorry to bang on, give it a go, you will be surprised at what you do know already I expect, but do approach it like a kid; read it and pass the tests if any, cheat if you have to, the idea with kids books is not to try to learn. I am intrigued to know how you are going to have a classroom full time, it implies that there will be a class in which case the pace will be prescribed

[meadish_sweetball]

It's impossible to say with any certainty how long it will take, which is why you are not getting many answers.

My own estimate here is 3-5 years of full time studies for a motivated and reasonably gifted person (i.e. somebody who has a knack for languages in general). Obviously individual ability, motivation and perseverance will differ greatly.

I have not taken the test myself, but from what I have heard, to pass the test, spelling will be important, so once you have cemented the alphabet and all the basic rules and exceptions for tone formation in your mind, concentrate on learning to spell the words you encounter most frequently in non-literary texts.

Also spend a fair amount of time on composing short essays about subjects you are interested in - you will need to master basic sentence structures and composition technique from a Thai perspective. Have a Thai teacher comment and maybe even rewrite these essays with you while discussing the stylistic and/or grammatical errors you make.

As for your mentioning of "seeming stuck" it is a common phenomenon described in language learning sometimes referred to as 'plateauing'. In reality, if you keep up your active learning, you never really get stuck, it just feels that way until you one day find yourself jumping up to the next plateau.

It will be easier to measure and observe your progress if you set up little goals, such as 'today/this week I will look up and memorize 10 new words', or 'today I will try to read and translate a short newspaper article' or 'I will watch the news in Thai every day and try to find a new word and expression and learn what it means and how to use it'... or 'today I will have at least one x minute conversation in Thai'... etc.

[tgeezer]

It's impossible to say with any certainty how long it will take, which is why you are not getting many answers.

My own estimate here is 3-5 years of full time studies for a motivated and reasonably gifted person (i.e. somebody who has a knack for languages in general). Obviously individual ability, motivation and perseverance will differ greatly.

I have not taken the test myself, but from what I have heard, to pass the test, spelling will be important, so once you have cemented the alphabet and all the basic rules and exceptions for tone formation in your mind, concentrate on learning to spell the words you encounter most frequently in non-literary texts.

Also spend a fair amount of time on composing short essays about subjects you are interested in - you will need to master basic sentence structures and composition technique from a Thai perspective. Have a Thai teacher comment and maybe even rewrite these essays with you while discussing the stylistic and/or grammatical errors you make.

I didn't realise it was for a reason, test. In this case you need only to pass the test not speak the language. I wonder if you could pass with as much knowledge as a Thai needs to get an English qualification. Is there not a well structured course for passing the test?

[meadish_sweetball]

You're right tgeezer, he actually did not mention the test... so perhaps I misinterpreted his question.

[kriswillems]

I was actually thinking about the test, because it's very difficult to define any level if you don't have any reference or standard to compare too.

I am married to a Thai. I never speak Thai with my wife. My wife and her family can speak English. I've tried to study Thai by myself without following a course, but although I tried really hard I did not get very far. I have the feeling it was the transliteration system, used in many books, that was blocking me.

5 months ago I started with a Thai course, only 3 yours per week. Although I don't learn much in this course, this course motivates me to study at home and to actually try to talk Thai. Because of the motivation I got in this course I learnt reading and writing Thai by myself. The teacher decided to move me to the second grade, skipping one year (the second grade is still pretty easy).

I understand the whole tone system, I can hear the difference between the tones and I can pronounce the tones correctly, but I've to think very long before I can't actually pronounce a sentence with the correct tone. I can (slowly) read Thai language (without understanstanding everything I read). I can write often used words.

The biggest problem I have is my lack of a wide vocabulary and experience with understanding, speaking and listening. I seem to be stuck with this problem. Learning 10 new words a day is actually pretty hard because I tend to forget the words I learnt a few days ago. So, that's why the feeling I am stuck.

I have a university degree and I am pretty quick in understanding but I am very bad in languages. I can't even read my native language (Dutch) without faltering.

During my holiday in Thailand I followed a 20 hours private course (with a tutor). I find these private courses to be very intensive. After 2 hours I am exausted. But I learnt a lot that way. Classroom courses are pretty relaxing, because most people seem to be slower than me. I think I could follow a full time classroom course if such a course would be available. The reason I don't want to follow private courses anymore is that most teachers only have experience with teaching Thai at a very basic level. Further on private courses are also much more expensive than classroom courses.

My final goal is to reach Poh.6 level (but I am not sure this is a realistic goal).

Does anyone know any objective test to test your level of Thai language?

[TonyBkk]

I took the test last year (Dec06) and got 72%, It took me 11 months to get up to standard from taking the speaking 1 course at AAAThai language school in Chidlom in Jan 06 going through all the courses then i took their grade 6 preparation course (3month course) in Sept 06. Altogether i took around 700hrs of group classes. For the first 2 months i took a class in the morning and in the afternoon session (3hrs + 3hrs). Outside the school i tried only to speak in Thai, which was greatly helped by the fact that my Thai girlfriend doesnt speak English.

[meadish_sweetball]

Thanks for sharing Tony, and welcome to the forum.

If you have time, I am sure many people would be interested in knowing what percentage correct is required to pass? Also, what different sections did the test consist of?

[kriswillems]

I took the test last year (Dec06) and got 72%, It took me 11 months to get up to standard from taking the speaking 1 course at AAAThai language school in Chidlom in Jan 06 going through all the courses then i took their grade 6 preparation course (3month course) in Sept 06. Altogether i took around 700hrs of group classes. For the first 2 months i took a class in the morning and in the afternoon session (3hrs + 3hrs). Outside the school i tried only to speak in Thai, which was greatly helped by the fact that my Thai girlfriend doesnt speak English.

Great info Tony. I am also curious about the details of the test.

[Briggsy]

I have some very dated info regarding the Prathom 4 test which either replaced or was replaced by the Prathom 6 test.

"The Prathom 4 test consists of 1) writing a letter about a given situation (45 minutes) 2) writing an essay on a given topic (60 minutes) 3) writing a passage dictated by the examiner 4) reading a short passage aloud and answering questions on the content. Part 4 is done separately and often includes a short oral interview."

[In the Rai!]

I have some very dated info regarding the Prathom 4 test which either replaced or was replaced by the Prathom 6 test.

"The Prathom 4 test consists of 1) writing a letter about a given situation (45 minutes) 2) writing an essay on a given topic (60 minutes) 3) writing a passage dictated by the examiner 4) reading a short passage aloud and answering questions on the content. Part 4 is done separately and often includes a short oral interview."

Briggsy, is this test aimed at farang or is it for Thais, and farang who want to take it can?

Just curious

ITR

[Bobcat]

I did the test in Dec 2005 and received a score of 89%. I wrote a very long post on this forum about the test around that time. You can read it by clicking the link below.

http://www.thaivisa.com/forum/lofiversion/...php/t45636.html

Regards,

Bob

[wasabi]

I understand the whole tone system, I can hear the difference between the tones and I can pronounce the tones correctly, but I've to think very long before I can't actually pronounce a sentence with the correct tone. I can (slowly) read Thai language (without understanstanding everything I read). I can write often used words.

This is a good observation. I'm at the point where I can pronounce most individual words correctly, or at least well enough that a Thai person can understand, but unless I speak slowly whole sentences don't receive the same comprehension. I have a Thai language partner and I've noticed the same thing from her, when she speaks English. she can say most individual words well enough, however when reading a passage in a book I often can't understand her. That's because every language seems to have a rhythm to it, even more so tonal ones like Thai. I do think the tones slightly shift when strung together, like two falling and a high tone might sound like one falling, mid and high. (That's just a random example) True mastery does seem to require being able to know how a language fits together soundwise not just individual words.

[meadish_sweetball]

Yes, tones do get flattened out and/or merge with each other in continuous speech. There are rules for how this happens as well. It is sometimes referred to as 'tone sandhi' or 'tone assimilation'.

One very general rule is that those syllables which receive the most stress, have clearly pronounced tones, whereas the tones of unstressed syllables are often flattened out to a mid tone.

It takes practice to get the cadence right, but before going there, it is wise to make sure one has nailed the pronunciation of tones in isolation correctly.

Listening to educated native speakers reading a text out loud and trying to emulate is helpful, as is just listening closely to everyday speech.

[kriswillems]

One of the most frustrating parts about studying Thai is that it's so interesting and challenging that I feel bad when I have to move my attention to other subjects, like work. Are there people that manage to improve their Thai language skills by studying less that 10 hours per week (either at home or in a course)? I feel like I need to study at least 20 to 30 hours per week to bring my knowledge to a higher level, which is difficult to combine with my job.

[In the Rai!]

One of the most frustrating parts about studying Thai is that it's so interesting and challenging that I feel bad when I have to move my attention to other subjects, like work. Are there people that manage to improve their Thai language skills by studying less that 10 hours per week (either at home or in a course)? I feel like I need to study at least 20 to 30 hours per week to bring my knowledge to a higher level, which is difficult to combine with my job.

Tony, If you really want to get your Thai to a higher level than it takes work and IMO willpower. I lived in Bangkok for about 3 and half years about 6 years ago before moving back to Australia. ( I am back here now but just not in BKK) I did study very hard but I also wasted alot of opportunities to listen and speak.

I had a great lifestyle and great times. However I am alot more serious about my Thai this time around.

I don't know your lifestyle Tony but I will give you a couple of the things I do now compared to what I did.

Whenever in the car going to or from work or to the shops I use to listen to cd's (music or radio) - now I put on a Thai station and listen (Thai talkback stations are great because they talk slow and clear)

At home when I got home I would watch UBC and chill out - now I watch Thai news (hard) and Thai series / drama (yes very painful)

I used to spend alot of time with friends , having a couple of cold golden beverages of an evening (speaking English/ farang friends) - now I limit myself to once or twice a week for get togethers. Instead Get out and go around town and just look at stuff. ask questions at markets or in shops and talk to people. Some people really want to talk and you can learn so much from them. But the best thing about it is that you get to listen to many people speak. Some people are alot harder to understand than others and by mixing with them you get used to the different sounds.

It certainly is hard work, but after a few months of hard and sometimes painful T.V shows you really will notice a big difference especially with your listening.

ITR

[TonyBkk]

I have some very dated info regarding the Prathom 4 test which either replaced or was replaced by the Prathom 6 test.

"The Prathom 4 test consists of 1) writing a letter about a given situation (45 minutes) 2) writing an essay on a given topic (60 minutes) 3) writing a passage dictated by the examiner 4) reading a short passage aloud and answering questions on the content. Part 4 is done separately and often includes a short oral interview."

The Prathom 6 (only test available for forigners) replaced the Prathom 4 test, and infact it was made easier as the letter writing part is no longer tested. This part involved memorising different templates for different style letters, as i was told by people who took the test back then it was a real nightmare to remember.

I found in the 06 test the section on answering 30 short Questions was far easier than previous years (i got 28 out of 30) while the marking for the essay section was very strict, most people from my course got between 20-25 out of a total of 35. This was were i lost most of my marks as i only got 20 out of 35. In all of my pre-tests in the school my essays always got in the 30's, and i thought i wrote my essay pretty well although no to the standard of a Thai Prathom student

Quick review of the parts of the exam

1) Essay (given 3 topic titles, 30lines on an A4 sheet, 90mins) 35%

2) Dictation by listining to tape (Was pretty slow this year, volume was not the best. And i was sitting close to someone who had a bad cough, then someones mobile phone started to ring, was about 20lines on A4 page) 20%

3) 30 short questions (30%)

4) Reading + conversation (15%) (had a choice of 3 passages to read, there was no poetry passage this year

[In the Rai!]

I have some very dated info regarding the Prathom 4 test which either replaced or was replaced by the Prathom 6 test.

"The Prathom 4 test consists of 1) writing a letter about a given situation (45 minutes) 2) writing an essay on a given topic (60 minutes) 3) writing a passage dictated by the examiner 4) reading a short passage aloud and answering questions on the content. Part 4 is done separately and often includes a short oral interview."

The Prathom 6 (only test available for forigners) replaced the Prathom 4 test, and infact it was made easier as the letter writing part is no longer tested. This part involved memorising different templates for different style letters, as i was told by people who took the test back then it was a real nightmare to remember.

I found in the 06 test the section on answering 30 short Questions was far easier than previous years (i got 28 out of 30) while the marking for the essay section was very strict, most people from my course got between 20-25 out of a total of 35. This was were i lost most of my marks as i only got 20 out of 35. In all of my pre-tests in the school my essays always got in the 30's, and i thought i wrote my essay pretty well although no to the standard of a Thai Prathom student

Quick review of the parts of the exam

1) Essay (given 3 topic titles, 30lines on an A4 sheet, 90mins) 35%

2) Dictation by listining to tape (Was pretty slow this year, volume was not the best. And i was sitting close to someone who had a bad cough, then someones mobile phone started to ring, was about 20lines on A4 page) 20%

3) 30 short questions (30%)

4) Reading + conversation (15%) (had a choice of 3 passages to read, there was no poetry passage this year

Tony, sorry for using your name in my previous post it should have been Kris as per my reply. sorry

Thanks for the info on the tests though.

What is with the advertising links?

ITR

[meadish_sweetball]

Excellent info Tony, thank you very much for taking the time.

What is with the advertising links?

Those links are part of a test run Thaivisa is doing and only show for Internet Explorer users. Tony did not put them there. More info in Forum Support.

[TonyBkk]

The pass mark was 50%

254 people took the test in Dec 06, from the list of people who passed it on (http://bet.obec.go.th/) 189 passed. There were a few empty seats, mabey 10-15.