Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[Eloquent pilgrim]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

My response was unclear. Sorry! My point was that Cameron did achieve useful concessions (if inadequate). Sadly, the referendum result consigned these to history

https://www.politico.eu/article/david-cameron-eu-reform-deal-scorecard-brexit-eu-referendum-agreement/

 

This is one of several contemporaneous accounts.

 

Thanks ….. yes Cameron did seem to come back from pre-referendum negotiations with very few concessions. Many commentators at the time said that the EU were being arrogant, believing that the UK would never vote to leave, and consequently saw no need to offer anything of significance.

 

I have often wondered since, whether Cameron himself was of the same belief, and if things may well have been different, if instead, he had entered those negotiations by saying to the EU, look, if I don't go back with something substantial, there is a very real possibility that the country will vote to leave

[Eloquent pilgrim]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

Sadly you failed to comprehend my point. Orban is an obvious demagogue. He whips up support under an anti Islam banner. However, his actual aims are far more subtle and include corruption, nepotism and personal enrichment.

 

You are still quite new here. Other members will know that I am notorious for my anti Islam, pro EU, pro education, pro social justice, humanitarian outlook ? (However contradictory that may seem).

 

Sorry to have kept you waiting for a response. My tardiness in replying is also a recognised failing.

 

With respect, I did not fail to comprehend your point. I know about Orban, I have friends in the Czech Republic and Poland, and I follow the politics of the Visegrad Group. I was just pointing out that the Hungarian people, who are not without knowledge of Orban’s shortcomings, are prepared to vote for him, and put everything else aside for the security of knowing that islam will not be able to replace their own culture and way of life.

 

This feeling is also gaining momentum in the other Visegrad countries, and elsewhere in the EU, without receiving proportionate reporting; the mainstream parties continually refuse to address the genuine concerns that their populations have regarding islamic immigration without integration, so people are, and will continue, to turn to more radical right wing alternatives. It is happening, it really is.

 

No need to apologise for a delay in responding, we all have other things to do. ??  ✌️?

[talahtnut]

23 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

With respect, I did not fail to comprehend your point. I know about Orban, I have friends in the Czech Republic and Poland, and I follow the politics of the Visegrad Group. I was just pointing out that the Hungarian people, who are not without knowledge of Orban’s shortcomings, are prepared to vote for him, and put everything else aside for the security of knowing that islam will not be able to replace their own culture and way of life.

 

This feeling is also gaining momentum in the other Visegrad countries, and elsewhere in the EU, without receiving proportionate reporting; the mainstream parties continually refuse to address the genuine concerns that their populations have regarding islamic immigration without integration, so people are, and will continue, to turn to more radical right wing alternatives. It is happening, it really is.

 

No need to apologise for a delay in responding, we all have other things to do. ??  ✌️?

We all like Grouse..but, he's Junkers Dad.

[billd766]

8 hours ago, champers said:

 Capital B and capital S.

 

And you know this how?

 

That could accurately describe your post.

[billd766]

2 hours ago, StreetCowboy said:

It could well be true.  Farage has told a lot of people a lot of things in his contribution to the war on truth.

 

The same could be said of David Cameron and his ministers too.

 

4 hours ago, simoh1490 said:

You lose 5 points for posting an article from The Express, only newspaper articles are permitted.

 

Do you mean newspapers like the Guardian or the Independent, both biased to Remain as the Express is to the Leavers.

[HAKAPALITA]

The last 2 papers are weird, sort of a Vegan attitude to others views


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[Grouse]

1 hour ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

With respect, I did not fail to comprehend your point. I know about Orban, I have friends in the Czech Republic and Poland, and I follow the politics of the Visegrad Group. I was just pointing out that the Hungarian people, who are not without knowledge of Orban’s shortcomings, are prepared to vote for him, and put everything else aside for the security of knowing that islam will not be able to replace their own culture and way of life.

 

This feeling is also gaining momentum in the other Visegrad countries, and elsewhere in the EU, without receiving proportionate reporting; the mainstream parties continually refuse to address the genuine concerns that their populations have regarding islamic immigration without integration, so people are, and will continue, to turn to more radical right wing alternatives. It is happening, it really is.

 

No need to apologise for a delay in responding, we all have other things to do. ??  ✌️?

For other members who maybe do not understand Hungary's dread of ottomans, here is a picture of an ottoman

 

 

[Eloquent pilgrim]

3 minutes ago, Grouse said:

For other members who maybe do not understand Hungary's dread of ottomans, here is a picture of an ottoman

 

 

I think the Hungarians sit comfortably with this type of ottoman ??

[7by7]

On ‎23‎/‎04‎/‎2018 at 6:32 AM, RuamRudy said:

Happy St George's Day to all my English TV friends. 

 

Of course, as St George was a Greek of Syrian descent, there are some of our more patriotic members who might question his right to be the English patron saint (surely there are some fine Anglo Saxons more suitable?) .............,

If we are going to be this sort of pedant then surely there are some fine Picts or Scots available who are more suitable than the Galilean Andrew?  

 

BTW, some histories have it that the Plantagenet Edward III didn't want a Saxon king, St. Edward the Confessor, as his patron so replaced him with St. George.

[RuamRudy]

15 minutes ago, 7by7 said:

If we are going to be this sort of pedant then surely there are some fine Picts or Scots available who are more suitable than the Galilean Andrew?  

 

BTW, some histories have it that the Plantagenet Edward III didn't want a Saxon king, St. Edward the Confessor, as his patron so replaced him with St. George.

Vogie suggested I was trolling but I prefer to think of it as a (poor) attempt at satire (Willie Rushton I am not). I am, however, an internationalist - anyone and everyone is welcome to call themselves a Scot should they choose to do so. If I recall my history, St Andrew's bones were interred somewhere in... St Andrews, which is more than enough for me. 

 

What do you think of this fine fellow? Personally, he gives me hope for the future. 

 

 

[7by7]

4 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

<snip>

If I recall my history, St Andrew's bones were interred somewhere in... St Andrews, which is more than enough for me. 

From Wikipedia

Quote

Several legends state that the relics of Andrew were brought by divine guidance from Constantinople to the place where the modern Scottish town of St Andrews stands today (Gaelic, Cill Rìmhinn). The oldest surviving manuscripts are two: one is among the manuscripts collected by Jean-Baptiste Colbert and willed to Louis XIV of France, now in the Bibliothèque Nationale, Paris, the other is the Harleian Mss in the British Library, London. They state that the relics of Andrew were brought by one Regulus to the Pictish king Óengus mac Fergusa (729–761). The only historical Regulus (Riagail or Rule) whose name is preserved in the tower of St Rule was an Irish monk expelled from Ireland with Saint Columba; his dates, however, are c 573 – 600. There are good reasons for supposing that the relics were originally in the collection of Acca, bishop of Hexham, who took them into Pictish country when he was driven from Hexham (c. 732), and founded a see, not, according to tradition, in Galloway, but on the site of St Andrews

 But, as anyone with the slightest knowledge of the subject will confirm, if all the known relics of any saint were gathered together in one place there would be enough to assemble dozens of people!

 

As for the picture; good on him. Unlike many members here (not you) I believe that immigrants to to UK and their descendants who wish to be so should be accepted as British.

[Jip99]

9 minutes ago, RuamRudy said:

Vogie suggested I was trolling but I prefer to think of it as a (poor) attempt at satire (Willie Rushton I am not). I am, however, an internationalist - anyone and everyone is welcome to call themselves a Scot should they choose to do so. If I recall my history, St Andrew's bones were interred somewhere in... St Andrews, which is more than enough for me. 

 

What do you think of this fine fellow? Personally, he gives me hope for the future. 

 

 

 

 

Brilliant picture!

 

Now THAT is my kind of multiculturalism.

 

 

I have wanted to be a Scot ever since visiting Inverness and the Cairngorms......I would hate to lose those to the EU.

[manchega]

change is important, stop all that stuck in the ways dusty european bit

 

lets get back to being the world leader, as things should be.

 

show em all how to live properly while taking resources and teaching them some nonsensical stuff like religeon, meditation or how to make a proper curry.

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, RuamRudy said:

Vogie suggested I was trolling but I prefer to think of it as a (poor) attempt at satire (Willie Rushton I am not). I am, however, an internationalist - anyone and everyone is welcome to call themselves a Scot should they choose to do so. If I recall my history, St Andrew's bones were interred somewhere in... St Andrews, which is more than enough for me. 

 

What do you think of this fine fellow? Personally, he gives me hope for the future. 

 

 

I love it when Indians and people from other ethnic groups are proudly patriotic like this. It's multi-culturism and lack of integration that's a problem in the UK.  If every immigrant was a proud Brit like this fella we wouldn't have so many problems. I'll even forgive him for being Scottish...

 

One of the issues people have with EU migrants from Eastern Europe is that most of them are just here temporarily to earn as much as possible, then take the earnings back to their home nation. They have no need to lay down roots or integrate with the locals. That's fine if it's on a small scale, but not at the levels we've seen over the past 10-15 years.

[aright]

7 hours ago, Grouse said:

 

 Other members will know that I am notorious for my anti Islam, pro EU, pro education, pro social justice, humanitarian outlook ? (However contradictory that may seem).

 

 

It's always good to know who you are but most people I know, who know you, just call you "the fat bloke".  

[Kieran00001]

9 minutes ago, CG1 Blue said:

I love it when Indians and people from other ethnic groups are proudly patriotic like this. It's multi-culturism and lack of integration that's a problem in the UK.  If every immigrant was a proud Brit like this fella we wouldn't have so many problems. I'll even forgive him for being Scottish...

 

One of the issues people have with EU migrants from Eastern Europe is that most of them are just here temporarily to earn as much as possible, then take the earnings back to their home nation. They have no need to lay down roots or integrate with the locals. That's fine if it's on a small scale, but not at the levels we've seen over the past 10-15 years.

 

Its better we have young tax payers without dependants who pay tax and then leave to be replaced by the next, what we don't want it a growing population, it's already growing too fast, some sectors need workers, but the last thing the country needs are those who want to put down roots.

[vogie]

2 hours ago, RuamRudy said:

Vogie suggested I was trolling but I prefer to think of it as a (poor) attempt at satire (Willie Rushton I am not). I am, however, an internationalist - anyone and everyone is welcome to call themselves a Scot should they choose to do so. If I recall my history, St Andrew's bones were interred somewhere in... St Andrews, which is more than enough for me. 

 

What do you think of this fine fellow? Personally, he gives me hope for the future. 

 

 

And of course the most famous of all Scotsmen......Sir Trevor McDonald.

 

[Grouse]

17 minutes ago, aright said:

It's always good to know who you are but most people I know, who know you, just call you "the fat bloke".  

That's a typically impolite comment from you. 

 

Totally lacking in wit.

 

Reported for ill manners.

[aright]

18 minutes ago, Grouse said:

That's a typically impolite comment from you. 

 

Totally lacking in wit.

 

Reported for ill manners.

[simoh1490]

46 minutes ago, aright said:

It's always good to know who you are but most people I know, who know you, just call you "the fat bloke".  

Name calling by proxy is still name calling, did the prof. run out of arguments or what!

[malagateddy]

It's always good to know who you are but most people I know, who know you, just call you "the fat bloke". [emoji2] 

Alright..that's not a nice thing to say..he may be a pro eu snp man..but everyone has their problems[emoji6]


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[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Its better we have young tax payers without dependants who pay tax and then leave to be replaced by the next, what we don't want it a growing population, it's already growing too fast, some sectors need workers, but the last thing the country needs are those who want to put down roots.

10 people crammed into a 2 bedroom house, going to work at carwashes and coffee shops and using all the local infrastructure.  Then multiply this by 100s across the big cities. 

 

It's not all about taxes.  These things affect the local community.

 

I'd rather we had low levels of permanent net migration like we had in the 80s and 90s than the chaos we have now.

[aright]

29 minutes ago, simoh1490 said:

Name calling by proxy is still name calling, did the prof. run out of arguments or what!

As you can see from the smiley it was an attempt at humour.......perhaps a failed attempt and if Grouse took it seriously I apologise..

 

Talking about your righteous stand on name calling do you remember...........

"That's too bad aright because of all the posters on team Brexit you were the one who I would have labelled most capable of objective argument and most nearly normal, were it not for your tendency to try to be a nob from time to time. "

 

You continue to demonstrate your a clapper without a bell

 

[simoh1490]

1 minute ago, aright said:

As you can see from the smiley it was an attempt at humour.......perhaps a failed attempt and if Grouse took it seriously I apologise..

 

Talking about your righteous stand on name calling do you remember...........

"That's too bad aright because of all the posters on team Brexit you were the one who I would have labelled most capable of objective argument and most nearly normal, were it not for your tendency to try to be a nob from time to time. "

 

You continue to demonstrate your a clapper without a bell

 

Woof, woof woof!

[Eloquent pilgrim]

1 hour ago, aright said:

It's always good to know who you are but most people I know, who know you, just call you "the fat bloke".  

Cheap shot .. probably says a lot more about you than it does about anybody else

Edited April 24, 2018 by Eloquent pilgrim

[aright]

2 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Cheap shot .. probably says a lot more about you than it does about anybody else

It was intended as humour and I have PM'd him to apologise if he saw it otherwise. I am not in the business of gratuitously insulting people.

[nauseus]

5 hours ago, Grouse said:

For other members who maybe do not understand Hungary's dread of ottomans, here is a picture of an ottoman

 

 

Yes, ugly and doesn't want to integrate with the surroundings.

[nauseus]

1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

Its better we have young tax payers without dependants who pay tax and then leave to be replaced by the next, what we don't want it a growing population, it's already growing too fast, some sectors need workers, but the last thing the country needs are those who want to put down roots.

Bloody hell, talk about labour market paradise! An impractical proposal except for short-term contracts. Who in their right minds would want to work (alone) for more than a year or two, then leave the system once they were in it, innit?  

[Grouse]

14 minutes ago, aright said:

It was intended as humour and I have PM'd him to apologise if he saw it otherwise. I am not in the business of gratuitously insulting people.

Apology accepted. Finished.

[nauseus]

36 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

Alright..that's not a nice thing to say..he may be a pro eu snp man..but everyone has their problems


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Grouse has issued enough insults so I would think he can handle this.