Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[vogie]

51 minutes ago, Kieran00001 said:

 

The figure rises to 5% when including those who live part of the year in Europe, and of course the majority of those people are adults so it is more like 6% of the electorate who live at least part of the year in the EU, hardly a small amount of people.  Then there are the far greater amount of British people who want to move to Europe, it is the dream of many millions, in a survey of 12,000 people, over 40% said that they would consider moving to one of 11 EU countries.

And in your survey did it say how many brits move back home when they realise the grass is not always greener on the other side of the road. I know where I lived in France most of the brits moved back home.

[Grouse]

58 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

Poland has prospered in the EU.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2014/may/01/eu-poland-10-years-economic

 

You would think they would be grateful after their history! But no, they prefer a facist government. 

[Orac]

My research shows no complaints about the Destin8 system and if there were the red tops would be screaming.   Let's give credit where credit is due.
 

Urgent or dangerous goods — fireworks for example — will be off the premises in no time. Containers with frozen goods inside are stacked on special electrified cold storage racks. Those which are part of a particular supply chain, for a car plant or supermarket group, will wait for their slot in the customer's schedule.

 

The system was developed years ago here in Felixstowe by a consortium of all the main players — the port people, the customs people, the shipping people and so on. It has now been adopted in 70 per cent of British ports.

Anyone trading goods from outside the EU clicks a few boxes on their computer and the software does the rest.

It will send the manifest (the description of the goods) and the customs declaration to every relevant party — including the shipping company, the port and the haulage company.

The details will also go to every border control agency from HMRC (who look for contraband), Port Health (food), DEFRA (crops), trading standards (dodgy goods), the Forestry Commission and dozens more.

The system gives every consignment a unique number known as an MRN — think of it as a barcode — which removes the need for paperwork altogether. The Destin8 system will also link in to HMRC's system, work out all the tariffs and duty, and automatically deduct whatever needs paying from the trader's account.

Every politician, on either side of the Brexit debate, should come to Suffolk and meet Alan Long and his small, motivated team in their hi-tech offices in a converted chapel on the edge of Felixstowe.

Yet few have yet to do so. Nor have the Whitehall experts charged with implementing our departure from the EU been to consult the real experts here in Felixstowe.

As far as Brexit is concerned, Mr Long says his company will just adapt their systems to suit whatever deal the Government and the EU agree. They are also exploring a specific solution to the Dover/Calais cross-Channel route and to the shorter routes across the Irish Sea, which have their own unique problems due to the brevity of the journey. A seven-hour North Sea crossing allows the current system quite enough time for any customs data to be processed.

In the time it takes a post-Brexit lorryload of apples to travel by ferry from the Netherlands to Felixstowe or Harwich, all will be sorted.

With shorter transit times, a different system will be needed to handle a similar lorryload between Calais and Dover or Fishguard and Dublin. Mr Long has no doubt a solution will be found.

'The logistics industry always finds a way to do these things,' he assures me. 'It will just be a hybrid system.' He can't be more specific for now as his company is in the midst of designing the answer.

And the Northern Irish border with Ireland? He says that the obvious common-sense solution for the moment is to ask exporters and importers to fill in self- assessment forms — much like tax returns — reinforced by rigorous spot-checks and penalties. Those do not have to take place at the border anyway.

It isn’t a bad system though far more suited for seafreight whereby large amounts of paperwork can be processed before arrival - the write up makes it sound far simpler than it actually is.

I was heavily involved in implementing its predecessor, FCP80, at a U.K. airport back in the 80s including sitting on a couple of working groups with HM Customs and setting up training sessions for various companies that would use it. On the trade side we were unhappy with a seafreight system being implemented at an airport when we felt the competing airfreight system was more appropriate but HMC&E (HMRC later) were set on the MCP system plus the airfreight one, ACP80, failed to work when they came to demonstrate it to the working group - it was several years before we could change it (actually to a competing maritime system which at that point was superior to ACP which is the CNS system used at Southampton) and then onto an updated system designed for airfreight, ASM,around 2000.

Sorry to ramble a bit but my point is the current systems, particularly the maritime based ones, would be wholly unsuitable for a land border since you don’t have the luxury of allowing the actual goods to sit unattended for a significant period - though the write up you posted makes it sound simple the actual physical time needed to offload a vessel, locate containers quayside in inventory control and book/arrange delivery of containers give plenty of time to process customs paperwork. The Destin8 system must be about 15 years old now and just would not be up to the job.

The airfreight systems would make a better job of it but still entail a significant amount of work and the extra volume of entries would be horrendous to a degree that it would take several years to upgrade systems not to mention recruit/train staff both on the trade side and HMRC.

I was part of our companies implementation team when the Single Market came in and the staffing cull was distressing to say the least including a whole office of 40 people at Dover which we were able to completely close. Though technology could take up some of the slack, the computer systems in place now are virtually the same however the volume of movements since then has increased massively.


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[sawadee1947]

2 hours ago, nontabury said:

I live in an area of the U.K with many Polish Immigrants. I see no hostility to them individually, as Most of them get along with the locals very well, and vice versa, especially when you consider that these E.U. Immigants are helping to keep the wages of the lower paid down.

The locals understand why these E.U immigants are here, they just simple want, a better life for themselves and their families, and for this the local respect them. The problem is that their presence in our country is helping to keep the wages of those at the bottom of the rung, down. 

  

Seems as if there is Xmas all time. But the reality is different. Your govt. Doesn't want to keep those EU immigrants. Once you welcomed them but now they are a burden. And next without rights? You will have to follow law. EU law. European court 

[The Renegade]

4 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

Seems as if there is Xmas all time. But the reality is different. Your govt. Doesn't want to keep those EU immigrants. Once you welcomed them but now they are a burden. And next without rights? You will have to follow law. EU law. European court 

Good grief.

 

Did Ireland pay you to leave ?

[HAKAPALITA]

Norway voted not to join with a big turnout in voters,lucky we didnt join.Just Leave.We do fine without.

[aright]

4 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

Seems as if there is Xmas all time. But the reality is different. Your govt. Doesn't want to keep those EU immigrants. Once you welcomed them but now they are a burden. And next without rights? You will have to follow law. EU law. European court 

The UK will continue to welcome immigrants but it must be controlled immigration.

Part of our problem is the Immigration system does not provide us with the immigrants we want and need.

The UK needs carers, nurses, teachers ,farm workers et al. not at best hairdressers, waiters, cab drivers etc and at worst  criminal gangs all of which can enter the UK anytime if they have an EU passport.

Over many recent years immigrants have poured into our country but they haven't always be those we need.

Our immigration needs are quite straight forward. 

[The Renegade]

3 minutes ago, HAKAPALITA said:

Just Leave.We do fine without.

We would love to just leave but of there are a couple of obstacles in our way.

 

The EU do not want us to leave, they want us tied at the hip, under the control of Brussels, under the ECJ and to keep handing over Billions of Billions £'s

 

Then we have a group of deaf, dumb and blind kids that cannot see the EU Institutions for what they really are. There are also politicians and senior civil servants who are desperate for us to stay in the EU, they need jobs once they reach their sell by dates.

 

I could go on and on, but I am sure you get the message.

[soalbundy]

20 minutes ago, Orac said:

 

 

It isn’t a bad system though far more suited for seafreight whereby large amounts of paperwork can be processed before arrival - the write up makes it sound far simpler than it actually is.

I was heavily involved in implementing its predecessor, FCP80, at a U.K. airport back in the 80s including sitting on a couple of working groups with HM Customs and setting up training sessions for various companies that would use it. On the trade side we were unhappy with a seafreight system being implemented at an airport when we felt the competing airfreight system was more appropriate but HMC&E (HMRC later) were set on the MCP system plus the airfreight one, ACP80, failed to work when they came to demonstrate it to the working group - it was several years before we could change it (actually to a competing maritime system which at that point was superior to ACP which is the CNS system used at Southampton) and then onto an updated system designed for airfreight, ASM,around 2000.

Sorry to ramble a bit but my point is the current systems, particularly the maritime based ones, would be wholly unsuitable for a land border since you don’t have the luxury of allowing the actual goods to sit unattended for a significant period - though the write up you posted makes it sound simple the actual physical time needed to offload a vessel, locate containers quayside in inventory control and book/arrange delivery of containers give plenty of time to process customs paperwork. The Destin8 system must be about 15 years old now and just would not be up to the job.

The airfreight systems would make a better job of it but still entail a significant amount of work and the extra volume of entries would be horrendous to a degree that it would take several years to upgrade systems not to mention recruit/train staff both on the trade side and HMRC.

I was part of our companies implementation team when the Single Market came in and the staffing cull was distressing to say the least including a whole office of 40 people at Dover which we were able to completely close. Though technology could take up some of the slack, the computer systems in place now are virtually the same however the volume of movements since then has increased massively.


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you are blinding them with reality, doesn't quite fit in with the brexiteers simple view of the world, which is good, it's fine, it just isn't real.

[billd766]

4 hours ago, Happy enough said:

you know what i find really sad about the uk. and to a certain extent my wife and i were lucky as bought when we could. most people in london cannot afford a place of their own to live in. that's <deleted> up

 

From what I can read in the local paper, Poole and Bournemouth in Dorset are just the same. There is a new development going in at an old timberyard http://www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/16237605.Shops__restaurants_and_over_350_homes____150m_plans_for_Sydenhams_site_approved_by_councillors/

 

Of the 350 homes only 18 are supposedly "affordable" and there are only 345 car spaces available.

[adammike]

1 hour ago, vogie said:

And in your survey did it say how many brits move back home when they realise the grass is not always greener on the other side of the road. I know where I lived in France most of the brits moved back home.

The exchange rate is the deal breaker as many ex-pats in Thailand have discovered.When the English/Welsh rejoin the EU and ditch the pound and join the euro zone the exchange problem will disappear.

[billd766]

4 hours ago, beautifulthailand99 said:

I don't blame her - good luck she took advantage of the hand that was dealt. What should have happened was with the proceeds of the initial sale the money should have been ring fenced to build more social housing. 

 

The Labour party under Blair and Brown came to power after that. Why didn't THEY change the laws and force councils to rebuild their housing stock. After all they were in power for a long time.

[The Renegade]

2 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

The Labour party under Blair and Brown came to power after that. Why didn't THEY change the laws and force councils to rebuild their housing stock. After all they were in power for a long time.

The Labour Party.

 

Quote

Tom Copley, Labour's housing spokesman in the capital, said that Margaret Thatcher's government had built more council flats and houses in a single year than New Labour's managed in its entire period in office.

This is correct. The official data shows that the Blair and Brown governments built 7,870 council houses (local authority tenure) over the course of 13 years. (If we don't include 2010 - the year when David Cameron became PM - this number drops to 6,510.) Mr Copley has contrasted this figure with the record of Mrs Thatcher's government, which never built fewer than 17,710 homes in a year.

https://fullfact.org/economy/who-built-more-council-houses-margaret-thatcher-or-new-labour/

 

There is facts and then there is hyperbole 

[aright]

19 minutes ago, soalbundy said:

you are blinding them with reality, doesn't quite fit in with the brexiteers simple view of the world, which is good, it's fine, it just isn't real.

As opposed to your perceived reality or just plain Project Fear. If we leave the CU we will enter a rabbit warren of endless paperwork and bureaucracy. It is imperative we remain locked in to the Customs Union otherwise our entire trucking industry will seize up while the bullets fly in Crossmaglen. Mark my words we need to end all this Brexit nonsense. 

[soalbundy]

Just now, aright said:

As opposed to your perceived reality or just plain Project Fear. If we leave the CU we will enter a rabbit warren of endless paperwork and bureaucracy. It is imperative we remain locked in to the Customs Union otherwise our entire trucking industry will seize up while the bullets fly in Crossmaglen. Mark my words we need to end all this Brexit nonsense. 

yes, we agree. So we are not opposed at all.?

[anon789561]

they have made their choice. that's up to them and they have chosen. good or bad remains to be seen. would be handy if the pound goes up a bit though, bloody annoying at the moment 

[The Renegade]

8 minutes ago, aright said:

It is imperative we remain locked in to the Customs Union otherwise our entire trucking industry will seize up while the bullets fly in Crossmaglen.

Do not forget the fire & brimstone that will rain down from the sky, the black & Bubonic plagues that will sweep across the Country to kill off any initial survivors.

 

29 March 2019 the sun will fail to rise in the UK, casting the entire Country into permanent darkness.

 

Of course, the mighty EU have the power to prevent all these catastrophes from crossing the Irish border, Just like they have the power to keep the 1000's of old illegal border crossing that were used on a daily basis by cross border smugglers closed.

 

The ROI and NI will continue to trade, hard border, no border or whatever the EU and the WTO want to say on the matter.

[Grouse]

59 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

We would love to just leave but of there are a couple of obstacles in our way.

 

The EU do not want us to leave, they want us tied at the hip, under the control of Brussels, under the ECJ and to keep handing over Billions of Billions £'s

 

Then we have a group of deaf, dumb and blind kids that cannot see the EU Institutions for what they really are. There are also politicians and senior civil servants who are desperate for us to stay in the EU, they need jobs once they reach their sell by dates.

 

I could go on and on, but I am sure you get the message.

So you would be happy with a Norway / EFTA / EEA model? As far as I know Brexit knuckle draggers won't accept that option even though it was suggest by Farage!

[Grouse]

1 hour ago, HAKAPALITA said:

Norway voted not to join with a big turnout in voters,lucky we didnt join.Just Leave.We do fine without.

Brexiters decline your system. ( Just between you and I, I'm not sure they understand it)! Ssh ?

[soalbundy]

15 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Do not forget the fire & brimstone that will rain down from the sky, the black & Bubonic plagues that will sweep across the Country to kill off any initial survivors.

 

29 March 2019 the sun will fail to rise in the UK, casting the entire Country into permanent darkness.

 

Of course, the mighty EU have the power to prevent all these catastrophes from crossing the Irish border, Just like they have the power to keep the 1000's of old illegal border crossing that were used on a daily basis by cross border smugglers closed.

 

The ROI and NI will continue to trade, hard border, no border or whatever the EU and the WTO want to say on the matter.

Oh good, Bubonic plague should solve the housing crisis, in fact it would solve everything.

[HAKAPALITA]

12 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Brexiters decline your system. ( Just between you and I, I'm not sure they understand it)! Ssh ?

What bit of Run our Own Country do they find difficult.?.

[Grouse]

7 minutes ago, HAKAPALITA said:

What bit of Run our Own Country do they find difficult.?.

I honestly have no idea! I thought that moving from EU to EEA and EFTA would be a sensible step. But no. Rejected out of hand. We are already not in the Euro or Schengen. So reasonable move!

 

Incidentally are you Norwegian or Finnish? Just interested because of your screen name ?

[sawadee1947]

2 hours ago, aright said:

The UK will continue to welcome immigrants but it must be controlled immigration.

Part of our problem is the Immigration system does not provide us with the immigrants we want and need.

The UK needs carers, nurses, teachers ,farm workers et al. not at best hairdressers, waiters, cab drivers etc and at worst  criminal gangs all of which can enter the UK anytime if they have an EU passport.

Over many recent years immigrants have poured into our country but they haven't always be those we need.

Our immigration needs are quite straight forward. 

So cherry picking as always 

[sawadee1947]

2 hours ago, The Renegade said:

Good grief.

 

Did Ireland pay you to leave ?

To leave? Why should I? 

[nauseus]

11 minutes ago, sawadee1947 said:

So cherry picking as always 

We don't grow many cherries. Do we?

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/foodanddrink/foodanddrinknews/5898662/Traditional-English-cherries-in-danger-of-wipe-out.html

Edited May 21, 2018 by nauseus

[HAKAPALITA]

39 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I honestly have no idea! I thought that moving from EU to EEA and EFTA would be a sensible step. But no. Rejected out of hand. We are already not in the Euro or Schengen. So reasonable move!

 

Incidentally are you Norwegian or Finnish? Just interested because of your screen name ?

Norway.My ancestors left because you gave us no handouts n houses back then.If we run out we will be back.?

[billd766]

3 minutes ago, HAKAPALITA said:

Norway.My ancestors left because you gave us no handouts n houses back then.If we run out we will be back.?

 

If you were Danish we would have offered you Danegeld.

 

[malagateddy]

So you would be happy with a Norway / EFTA / EEA model? As far as I know Brexit knuckle draggers won't accept that option even though it was suggest by Farage!

grouse..watch your tongue re adressing your superiors.
We are not knuckle draggers nor are we believers in the infamous corrupt eu.

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[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, Grouse said:

So you would be happy with a Norway / EFTA / EEA model? As far as I know Brexit knuckle draggers won't accept that option even though it was suggest by Farage!

I'm pretty sure Farage didn't 'suggest' this option.  Unless you fell for that laughable collage of out of context, heavily edited video clips.

But I'm sure you wouldn't be that naïve...

 

Farage wants the hardest of Brexits. There is absolutely no doubt about that.

 

[beautifulthailand99]

4 hours ago, CG1 Blue said:

So now we're basing decisions on dreams are we?

What is Brexit if not a dream...(sorry should have said nightmare!)...