Brexit has created chaos in Britain – nobody voted for this

[The Renegade]

2 minutes ago, billd766 said:

 

The problem with the roundabout is that there are no direction signs telling them where to come off.

All roads lead to Ausfahrt ??

[The Renegade]

2 hours ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

2. How can Merkel now allow the EU to be bullied into permitting the V4 countries and Austria, to negotiate away their immigrant quotas,

It would appear that this is dead in the water. 

 

Quote

While one of the near-fatal blows was to be expected — the new populist government in Italy — another came from an unusual source: German Chancellor Angela Merkel, who adopted an open-door refugee policy during the crisis of 2015.

What you will not see in the MSM

 

Quote

Yet while EU leaders deliberate, another crisis could soon hit.

 

During the first few months of 2018, the overall number of arrivals into the EU has fallen, mainly because of a 78 percent drop in migrants heading to Italy, according to the Council’s figures. Yet arrivals to Spain rose by 50 percent on the same period in 2017, and in Greece the rise was 161 percent on last year.

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-fails-on-migration-yet-again/

[Grouse]

9 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

All roads lead to Ausfahrt ??

How very philosophical!

[Grouse]

2 hours ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

2. How can Merkel now allow the EU to be bullied into permitting the V4 countries and Austria, to negotiate away their immigrant quotas, while expecting her own electorate and other member states to leave the door wide open. If this kind of compromise had been offered to Cameron, we would never have had a referendum the first place. Too late Mrs M 

How many has the UK taken in? I assume you are talking about asylum seeker quotas....

 

https://fullfact.org/immigration/uk-refugees/

 

Less than 0.2% of the population. Didn't we do well!

 

Incidentally, I note Syria doesn't even make the top 5 home countries.

 

In conclusion the situation in much of Europe has NOTHING to do with the UK and conflating the issues is a smoke screen. 

Edited June 5, 2018 by Grouse

[The Renegade]

Macrons dream in tatters

 

Quote

In the end, Emmanuel Macron may wish he hadn’t bothered.

 

The gist: Berlin will put a little more money on the table and accept a bit more risk-sharing, but France and the rest of the eurozone can bury any lingering hope that Germany will pursue a great leap forward in eurozone integration by endorsing anything resembling a full-fledged fiscal union.

https://www.politico.eu/article/an-offer-emmanuel-macron-cant-refuse-eurozone-budget-angela-merkel/

 

So the reform and change needed to save the € has been vetoed by Merkel.

 

??

 

A blessing in disguise that the UK is leaving the EU before it comes tumbling down.

[transam]

5 minutes ago, Grouse said:

How many has the UK taken in? I assume you are talking about asylum seeker quotas....

How many EU criminals....?

[Grouse]

4 minutes ago, transam said:

How many EU criminals....?

That is not what is being discussed

[transam]

Just now, Grouse said:

That is not what is being discussed

Well I am...

[Grouse]

2 minutes ago, transam said:

Well I am...

Good for you!

[Grouse]

21 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

Macrons dream in tatters

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/an-offer-emmanuel-macron-cant-refuse-eurozone-budget-angela-merkel/

 

So the reform and change needed to save the € has been vetoed by Merkel.

 

??

 

A blessing in disguise that the UK is leaving the EU before it comes tumbling down.

I think a Franco-German axis will come up with a sensible solution. I tend to prefer the Protestant ethic and certainly Italy with it's "populists" (if you will excuse the expression) will need to sober up PDQ!

 

Incidentally, I note that UK, having kept out of the Euro has not appeared to have benefitted from being able to devalue as the Italians and Greeks would like to do. IF we had joined, what rate would have applied? Anyone know? 

Edited June 5, 2018 by Grouse

[Grouse]

3 hours ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

Interesting article in the Times Online overnight

This is some of it

 

QUOTE

****The guardians of the European flame seem at last to have woken up to populism. But are they too late? Spain and Italy, two of the eurozone’s largest economies, are now in the hands of populists who are also novices at governing. These are further crosses to bear for the Brussels elite whose vision of a united Europe is under ever-increasing strain. Charles Bremner reports

 

The leaders of France and Germany, whose predecessors in the late 1940s launched the European scheme, are attempting to fix the machine. They are to produce a joint plan at the late June EU summit.

 

Mr Macron, a firm believer, has been campaigning for months to “relaunch” the union with ideas that will inspire all its citizens. With his habitual energy, he is dramatising the stakes, calling it Europe’s last chance to get its act together.

 

The union must show its might as protector and guarantor of prosperity and justice, he says. The Franco-German “locomotive” should once again power the agreements, and the monetary union at its core must show more solidarity with the southern states, he says.

 

This classically French vision has so far failed to sell beyond the Rhine, but Chancellor Merkel has finally unveiled her answer to the Macron overhaul. She called for common asylum standards, a European border police force and a pan-European migration agency. In a gesture to Hungary, Poland and the reluctant easterners, she backed a “flexible system” in which countries that refuse to take on refugees could compensate by making contributions in other areas ****

 

I foresee a couple of huge problems here

 

1. Macron’s plan to show more solidarity with the southern states, basically means that northern Europe must write bigger cheques for Club Med, which won't wash with Germany, the French public, or any other northern members.

 

2. How can Merkel now allow the EU to be bullied into permitting the V4 countries and Austria, to negotiate away their immigrant quotas, while expecting her own electorate and other member states to leave the door wide open. If this kind of compromise had been offered to Cameron, we would never have had a referendum the first place. Too late Mrs M 

 

The EU is straightjacketed by it's own rules and has outrun any popular legitimacy it may once have had; it doesn't know what to do next to try and stem the flow of populism, and is weakened by every single election throughout the Union.

 

For far too long, the Franco-German locomotive, as Macron, correctly, but somewhat undiplomatically calls it, has been giving disproportionate advantage to its driver and its stoker. This imbalance of power and authority can only be maintained for so long through bureaucratic gymnastics, before you forfeit any claim to democratic legitimacy.

 

Not a good framework for far reaching, and for some expensive, reform. Far too little, far too late, the Union is in great danger of imploding before the UK gets to leave. I await with interest the new plan at the end of June summit.

I can see why you didn't post a link ?

 

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/the-guardians-of-the-european-flame-seem-at-last-to-have-woken-up-to-populism-but-are-they-too-late-bp3qn3qh6

 

Populist tripe!

 

My how The Thunderer has gone down! Predigested pap for the, er, populists.

 

 

Edited June 5, 2018 by Grouse

[dick dasterdly]

33 minutes ago, The Renegade said:

It would appear that this is dead in the water. 

 

What you will not see in the MSM

 

https://www.politico.eu/article/eu-fails-on-migration-yet-again/

Merkel's policy re. 'refugees' is clearly dead in the water as even she admits she was wrong....

 

Too little, and too late.

 

Tthe more important problem is migrants from poor eu countries moving to far wealthier western countries.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

22 minutes ago, Grouse said:

That is not what is being discussed

 

22 minutes ago, Grouse said:

That is not what is being discussed

Nor was how many asylum seekers the UK has taken in until you introduced it, so don’t criticise others for what you have just done yourself 

[dick dasterdly]

15 minutes ago, Grouse said:

I think a Franco-German axis will come up with a sensible solution. I tend to prefer the Protestant ethic and certainly Italy with it's "populists" (if you will excuse the expression) will need to sober up PDQ!

 

Incidentally, I note that UK, having kept out of the Euro has not appeared to have benefitted from being able to devalue as the Italians and Greeks would like to do. IF we had joined, what rate would have applied? Anyone know? 

In other words you rely on the eu govt. 'changing' - even though it has shown no signs of doing anything of the sort....

[The Renegade]

Squawk, squawk, squawk.

 

Looks like we might be goosed, lets make lots of irrelevant noise.

 

Squawk, squawk

 

UK dodged a bullet a voting to Brexit.

[Grouse]

10 minutes ago, Eloquent pilgrim said:

 

Nor was how many asylum seekers the UK has taken in until you introduced it, so don’t criticise others for what you have just done yourself 

Then it is off topic n'est pa?

[Grouse]

5 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

In other words you rely on the eu govt. 'changing' - even though it has shown no signs of doing anything of the sort....

Yes. Adapting. Slightly.

[Eloquent pilgrim]

5 minutes ago, Grouse said:

Then it is off topic n'est pa?

As is use of the French language with both incorrect grammar and spelling 

[Kieran00001]

38 minutes ago, dick dasterdly said:

Merkel's policy re. 'refugees' is clearly dead in the water as even she admits she was wrong....

 

Too little, and too late.

 

Tthe more important problem is migrants from poor eu countries moving to far wealthier western countries.

 

It doesn't appear to much of an issue.

 

[dick dasterdly]

I too originally hoped that the brexit vote would result in the eu reforming, but they have done the opposite so far - other than Merkel finally admitting that the 'refugee' policy was 'flawed'...LOL

 

At the end of the day, the eu will only 'reform' to the extent necessary to maintain power for themselves and wealthy companies.  IMO, the uk govt. feel the same way...

 

Many of us are tired of this charade - hence the desire for a hard brexit at the end of the Article 50 period.  Of course the uk govt. has made no attempt to prepare for this.

 

I wonder why?....

 

 

Edited June 5, 2018 by dick dasterdly

[travelling wilbury]

Chaos is exactly what that bloody woman may wants so she can delay brexit  till she can drop it completely she has caused the chaos in an obvious attempt to remain in eu 

how she can she be trusted to negotiate brexit when she wanted to remail in eu 

Just proves how 4 faced all politicions are that is why i left uk for a country that is very corrupt but doesnt pretend otherwise like u.k.

[dick dasterdly]

Just now, Kieran00001 said:

 

It doesn't appear to much of an issue.

 

A 'key' and a source would be appreciated.

[CG1 Blue]

1 hour ago, dick dasterdly said:

1 hour ago, Kieran00001 said:

It doesn't appear to much of an issue.

 

A 'key' and a source would be appreciated.

Yes, and some definition around 'immigrant population'. It may only include those obtaining citizenship, which would make it irrelevant to this thread.

[adammike]

3 hours ago, billd766 said:

 

So that is where your reference to books came from.

 

You must have time on your hands doing nothing if that is what you read.

 

TBH I have never heard of the comic.

 

My comic book reading stopped with the Beano, Dandy, Eagle etc about 59 years ago,

Then you missed out on those Fabulous Furry Freak Brothers.

[malagateddy]

That is not what is being discussed

It us certainly very relevent to the law abiding population of the UK!!!!!

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[Kieran00001]

1 hour ago, CG1 Blue said:

Yes, and some definition around 'immigrant population'. It may only include those obtaining citizenship, which would make it irrelevant to this thread.

 

It does actually have the link at the bottom of the map.

The data comes from the UN 2015 Migration Report compared to their 2010 Migration Report, the definition they use is anyone living in a country other than their birth.

 

The full UN report can be viewed here:  

http://www.un.org/en/development/desa/population/migration/publications/migrationreport/docs/MigrationReport2015_Highlights.pdf

 

The map and others can be viewed here:

https://jakubmarian.com/

[Kieran00001]

58 minutes ago, malagateddy said:

It us certainly very relevent to the law abiding population of the UK!!!!!

Sent from my SM-G7102 using Thailand Forum - Thaivisa mobile app
 

Quote

A 2008 report for the Association of Chief Police Officers found that national crime rates have continued to fall despite rising net migration over a number of years.

The research found that offending rates among Polish, Romanian and Bulgarian communities were in line with the general population.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk-migration-six-myths-about-immigration-debunked-as-latest-figures-show-fall-in-non-eu-arrivals-a6895341.html

[malagateddy]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/uk-migration-six-myths-about-immigration-debunked-as-latest-figures-show-fall-in-non-eu-arrivals-a6895341.html

Imo..every immigrant from the eu or outwith the eu wishing to be given the honour of residing in the UK..should supply in the English language and at their own expense..a comprehensive Police Report.

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[The Renegade]

5 hours ago, The Renegade said:

All roads lead to Ausfahrt ??

 

5 hours ago, Grouse said:

How very philosophical!

Your sense of humour bypass was a roaring success, worth every satang ??

[The Renegade]

Another Country, another problem.

 

Quote

Support for the anti-immigration Sweden Democrats has surged ahead of an election in September to the point where it could be hard for the government or opposition to form a working majority without their support, a poll showed on Tuesday.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sweden-politics-poll/support-for-anti-immigration-sweden-democrats-surges-ahead-of-september-election-idUSKCN1J117P?il=0

 

When will the EU get it into their heads that the free movement of people is causing problems, it is not wanted and it is time to cancel it.